Here’s the No. 1 fallacy on eternal security

[fhansen]

Salvation has been by faith in Jesus Christ (the promise) since Abraham.

Gen 15:6 says it all. Abraham didn't know Christ let alone His revelation-he just believed God in any case.

 

[Clare73]

Gen 15:6 says it all. Abraham didn't know Christ let alone His revelation-he just believed God in any case.

His faith in the promise of God, Seed (Ge 15:5); i.e., Jesus Christ, was credited (imputed) to him as righteousness (Ge 15:6),
the same way righteousness is credited (imputed) in the NT (Ro 1:17, 3:21, 4:5, Php 3:9).
That he didn't know what had not been fully revealed does not mean he did not believe in the promise (i.e., Jesus Christ),
just as the Jews didn't "know" the Messiah would be God, and in rejecting him they were rejecting God.
But there were nevertheless held accountable for rejecting what they did not know (i.e., God).

 

[fhansen]

His faith in the promise of God, Seed, i.e., Jesus Christ, was credited (imputed) to him as righteousness (Ge 15:6),
the same way righteousness is credited (imputed) in the NT (Ro 1:17, 3:21, 4:5, Php 3:9).
That he didn't know what had not been fully revealed does not mean he did not believe in the promise (i.e., Jesus Christ),
just as the Jews didn't "know" the Messiah would be God, and in rejecting him they were rejecting God.
But there were nevertheless held accountable for rejecting what they did not know.

One can't believe in Jesus without knowing him, let alone knowing and believing in what He did. Belief is the object of knowledge, IOW. Abraham, simply, with the knowledge he had, believed God. And that faith was a righteous act indeed, especially as it was confirmed by his willingness to act. And it pleased God greatly.

 

[Clare73]

One can't believe in Jesus without knowing him, let alone knowing and believing in what He did. Belief is the object of knowledge, IOW. Abraham, simply, with the knowledge he had, believed God.

An integrated understanding of the OT shows otherwise (Ge 15:6), as does the NT (Ro 4:3, 20-24, Gal 3:6).

Belief in the promise (Ge 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) was counted as belief in Christ which saves (Ge 15:6).

Salvation has been by faith in Jesus Christ, the Seed, since Abraham.

 

[fhansen]

An integrated understanding of the OT shows otherwise (Ge 15:6), as does the NT (Ro 4:3, 20-24, Gal 3:6).

Belief in the promise (Ge 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) was counted as belief in Christ which saves (Ge 15:6).

Salvation has been by faith in Jesus Christ, the Seed, since Abraham.

More speculative than integrated here, IMO. Abraham didn't know his seed, only that there would be one, and many, as is also indicated in Gen 15. This is echoed in Abraham's blind trust in the promised land.
"By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going." Heb 11:8

He didn't need to know how it would all be worked out; he simply trusted God, and that belief was counted as righteousness. That belief in God is just and results in justice/righteousness in ourselves and therefore in our world. Again, it's what Adam lacked, followed by faith's compadres: hope and love. That would've excluded Adam's sin, his disobedience, and we're here to have those virtues, that righteousness, begun and cultivated within us now.

When we see Jesus, we know and see a God worth believing in. Abraham was one of few who already knew and trusted God well before Jesus came-and only in that sense did he know Jesus even if not by name, since Jesus is God. And that's why Abraham is a model of our faith.

 

[Clare73]

More speculative than integrated here, IMO. Abraham didn't know his seed, only that there would be one, and many, as is also indicated in Gen 15. This is echoed in Abraham's blind trust in the promised land.

It's not about knowing, it's about what God counts as knowing, or counts as any other rquirement.

 

[fhansen]

It's not about knowing, it's about what God counts as knowing, or counts as any other rquirement.

Ok, then it's about knowing. And/or any other requirement. So..eternal life is to know God and His Son: John 17:3. And this aligns with 1 Pet 1:21 as both point to the broader perspective regarding the role of faith and what it's meant to accomplish. Faith in Jesus and what He's done is faith in/unity with God, the whole point of Christianity. Jesus is the answer to the questions, "What would God do?", "Who is God that I might believe?"

 

[Clare73]

Ok, then it's about knowing. And/or any other requirement. So..eternal life is to know God and His Son: John 17:3. And this aligns with 1 Pet 1:21 as both point to the broader perspective regarding the role of faith and what it's meant to accomplish. Faith in Jesus and what He's done is faith in/unity with God, the whole point of Christianity.

You left out the most important part. . .the atoning sacrifice which effects this knowing only through the gift (Php 1:29, 2 Pe 1:1, Ac 13:48, 18:27, Ro 12:3) of faith (Eph 2:8-9).

 

[fhansen]

You left out the most important part. . .the atoning sacrifice which effects this knowing only through the gift (Php 1:29, 2 Pe 1:1, Ac 13:48, 18:27, Ro 12:3) of faith (Eph 2:8-9).

Yes, the knowledge is revelation which, itself, is a gift of grace- and the faith to believe those revealed truths is a gift of grace as well

 

[Jeff Bacon]

The concern is not losing salvation. There is no threshold mentioned for the amount of sin required to lose salvation or any other conditions. If it were possible to lose salvation, we would all lose it. However, there are several verses discussing apostasy and the need to persevere until the end. "No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is fit for the kingdom of God." Lk 9:62 (NET)
"Now the Spirit explicitly says that in the later times some will desert the faith and occupy themselves with deceiving spirits and demonic teachings." 1 Tim 4:1 (NET)
There are several other verses along these lines, but these give ample support for the point.
This is not losing salvation. This is turning away from God. It is a reverse repentance.
If belief/faith/pistis is how we accept God's grace then unbelief is how we reject God's grace.
You cannot look back if you never went into it, and you cannot desert the faith if you never entered it.

 

[Clare73]

Yes, the knowledge is revelation which, itself, is a gift of grace- and the faith to believe those revealed truths is a gift of grace as well

The Holy Spirit does not give the gift of saving revelation to those who will not believe it,
for belief (faith) in the gifted revelation is likewise a gift of the Holy Spirit (Php 1:29, 2 Pe 1:1, Ac 13:48, 18:27, Ro 12:3).

 

[fhansen]

There is no threshold mentioned for the amount of sin required to lose salvation or any other conditions.

Think I'd read Gal 6:7-8 for starters. Poor soil all begin as believers.

This is not losing salvation. This is turning away from God. It is a reverse repentance.

Salvation means to be with God; that's what faith does.

 

[Clare73]

Think I'd read Gal 6:7-8 for starters. Poor soil all begin as believers.

Sounds like Proverbs. . .Gal is addressed to believers. . .a negative application of the principle of 2 Co 9:6.

Salvation means to be with God; that's what faith does.

"Salvation" means "saved from". . ."saved from," through faith, (Eph 2:8-9), God's condemnation on sin (justification, remittal of sin, Ro 3:28) at the Judgment.

 

[fhansen]

The Holy Spirit does not give the gift of saving revelation to those who will not believe it,
for belief (faith) in the gifted revelation is likewise a gift of the Holy Spirit (Php 1:29, 2 Pe 1:1, Ac 13:48, 18:27, Ro 12:3).

All revelation is salvific by nature, but not all accept it.
“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.” Matt 7:24-27

Or some accept it for awhile but then reject it later (Matt 13:18-23, 2 Pet 2:20-22), or hear the words, believe, but then fail to profess that faith (John 12:42).

 

[fhansen]

Salvation means "saved from". . .from God's condemnation at the Judgment by the remission of sin through faith.

Saved from condemnation is inseparable from the indwelling of the Trinity, i.e. fellowship, union with, or nearness to God. Reconciliation with God places man back to the state of justice/righteousness that was intended for Him at the beginning=salvation.

 

[Clare73]

All revelation is salvific by nature, but not all accept it.

It is not the revelation that saves, it is receiving (believing) the revelation that saves, and no one does that apart from the gift of faith (Php 1:29).

“Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it did not fall, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and does not put them into practice is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell with a great crash.” Matt 7:24-27

Or some accept it for awhile but then reject it later (Matt 13:18-23, 2 Pet 2:20-22), or hear the words, believe, but then fail to profess that faith (John 12:42).

 

[Clare73]

Saved from condemnation is inseparable from the indwelling of the Trinity,

It's all inseparable in the redeemed--regeneration, indwelling Holy Spirit, faith, salvation, justification, imputed righteousness, sanctification, resurrection, glorification. . .it's all guaranteed with regeneration and testified to the redeemed by the Holy Spirit (Ro 8:16-17, 2 Co 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:13).

 

[fhansen]

It is not the revelation that saves, it is receiving (believing) the revelation that saves, and no one does that apart from the gift of faith (Php 1:29).

As I said, "All revelation is salvific by nature"-that's its intended purpose. Even creation, itself, is part of that revelation according to Rom 1, so there's no excuse for unbelief. But people reject that knowledge anyway, and so refuse to believe, or believe but fail to act upon that belief, or believe for awhile and then fall back away. Those who believe, act upon that belief, grow and persevere in that belief evidenced by how they live thier lives, are the elect.

 

[fhansen]

It's all inseparable in the redeemed--regeneration, indwelling Holy Spirit, faith, salvation, justification, imputed righteousness, sanctification, resurrection, glorification. . .it's all guaranteed with regeneration and testified to the redeemed by the Holy Spirit (Ro 8:16-17, 2 Co 1:22, 5:5, Eph 1:13).

As I said, "Saved from condemnation is inseparable from the indwelling of the Trinity..."

As to our opinion on the matter, we'll know with certainty in the end. There'll be some who didn't know they were among the elect who will be, and others who thought they were who were not.

 

[Clare73]

As I said, "All revelation is salvific by nature"-that's its intended purpose. Even creation, itself, is part of that revelation according to Rom 1, so there's no excuse for unbelief.

Belief in God does not save. Only belief in the promise (Ge 15:5, Seed, Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16) saves (Ge 15:6), which is counted as faith in Christ (Jn 3:16,18).