How does the idea that most of Gods creation he will have to burn forever bring glory to God?

[Gregory Thompson]

You said I needed to rethink the idea that God gets more glory out of not losing any, not more glory by creating and burning forever most of his creation.

The thing is, God didn't create sin.

God didn't plant the bad seed.

 

[Jipsah]

No. . .it's God's "an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth" justice of Scripture.

Which means someone knocks out one your teeth, you get to knovk out one of his... and no more! YOu don't get to damage him more then he damaged you. You don't get to kill him. or torture him for the rest of his life. There was no sliding scale for those richer/smarter/more poerful/more iiportant than you.

It's the nature of justice. . .meaning the magnitude of offense (debt) to the infinite can be remedied only by an infinite payment.

Finite offenses, which damage God not at all, are to be given infinte punishment, and the miscreant kept alive to suffer eternally without hope. That's "just"? Far, far from it. That's the act of a merviless monster, and there's no way to put a better face on it. Is that the example God Himself set for us when He walked among us? No! It's 180 degrees out of phase with what our Lord lived and taught.

That's why the atoning sacrifice had to be divine.

Got any Scripture to support that ghastly and pernicious belieg?

 

[Jipsah]

The thing is, God didn't create sin.

So if He behaves in an utterly loathesome manner then we have to call it "just".

God didn't plant the bad seed.

So torturing most of the people who He did create is a Good Thing.

 

[Neogaia777]

So if He behaves in an utterly loathesome manner then we have to call it "just".

So torturing most of the people who He did create is a Good Thing.

I'll try to tell you my take (again).

This is not the only earth/creation, but there are still some others present (in other locations), and there have also been very, very many before it, and always will be very, very many after it, etc.

It always has been necessary, for those getting to go to Heaven after or out or from these creations after this to experience some evil first, before getting to go to Heaven after this, which made those that would be, or that would always inflict/do the evil primarily, always temporarily necessary, etc.

These do not get to go to Heaven because they were never made for Heaven, but their program/existence is stored, and then only brought back up again in other creations, and they (or their programs, or existences) is not ever aware of this each time when this happens either.

Under determinism, everything has already been done/decided/caused, and cannot be changed, and so this is eternal for everyone already, or for both those remaining in these kinds of existences here, and for those whom the Highest God has already made/chosen for Heaven, etc. But these needed to go through some evil first before they could do that, which always made/makes (in every fallen creation) some of these others always necessary temporarily.

Under determinism, everything's fate is already decided before any creation is even ever thought of or made, and is not ever decided/determined by us ever, but by God, and so it is always eternal/fixed always, which also makes it eternal for everybody.

In other creations, and even in this one, their purpose is like a field, and is meant to cultivate some for Heaven. But not all though, since it is always necessary for those ones to always experience some evil first temporarily, which always made/makes some to always inflict the evil primarily, always necessary temporarily.

But these are never meant for Heaven in any of the creations in which they re-repeat their programs/existences ever, etc, and they are never aware of this each time either, etc, because they don't get to retain their memory each time they are doing this, but their memories are always deleted/erased, and they are always reset to their default, original memory, or prime programs always, etc.

But those getting to go to Heaven do get to keep/maintain and get to continue to build upon their primary programs/existences/memories always, etc, and get to do this in Heaven after that always, but it is not ever so for those others not getting to get to go to Heaven after this ever, because they always are/never were, meant or made for it ever always, etc.

Tell me what else is not clear to you yet (or now) please?

It's not revenge or retribution or vengeance, and it is not really even a punishment really, etc. For sin, or whatever or whatnot, really, etc, but it all just "is what it is" basically, etc. Which is basically just a field, or a garden, meant to cultivate some for Heaven, etc. But not for all that are right now here though, since they are only ever needed just to inflict/do most of the evil for the others that are always getting to go to Heaven after this temporarily.

Those getting to go to Heaven after this required that first, which is what always makes/made the others always necessary temporarily each time it happens, or is needed temporarily, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Neogaia777]

I'll try to tell you my take (again).

This is not the only earth/creation, but there are still some others present (in other locations), and there have also been very, very many before it, and always will be very, very many after it, etc.

It always has been necessary, for those getting to go to Heaven after or out or from these creations after this to experience some evil first, before getting to go to Heaven after this, which made those that would be, or that would always inflict/do the evil primarily, always temporarily necessary, etc.

These do not get to go to Heaven because they were never made for Heaven, but their program/existence is stored, and then only brought back up again in other creations, and they (or their programs, or existences) is not ever aware of this each time when this happens either.

Under determinism, everything has already been done/decided/caused, and cannot be changed, and so this is eternal for everyone already, or for both those remaining in these kinds of existences here, and for those whom the Highest God has already made/chosen for Heaven, etc. But these needed to go through some evil first before they could do that, which always made/makes (in every fallen creation) some of these others always necessary temporarily.

Under determinism, everything's fate is already decided before any creation is even ever thought of or made, and is not ever decided/determined by us ever, but by God, and so it is always eternal/fixed always, which also makes it eternal for everybody.

In other creations, and even in this one, their purpose is like a field, and is meant to cultivate some for Heaven. But not all though, since it is always necessary for those ones to always experience some evil first temporarily, which always made/makes some to always inflict the evil primarily, always necessary temporarily.

But these are never meant for Heaven in any of the creations in which they re-repeat their programs/existences ever, etc, and they are never aware of this each time either, etc, because they don't get to retain their memory each time they are doing this, but their memories are always deleted/erased, and they are always reset to their default, original memory, or prime programs always, etc.

But those getting to go to Heaven do get to keep/maintain and get to continue to build upon their primary programs/existences/memories always, etc, and get to do this in Heaven after that always, but it is not ever so for those others not getting to get to go to Heaven after this ever, because they always are/never were, meant or made for it ever always, etc.

Tell me what else is not clear to you yet (or now) please?

It's not revenge or retribution or vengeance, and it is not really even a punishment really, etc. For sin, or whatever or whatnot, really, etc, but it all just "is what it is" basically, etc. Which is basically just a field, or a garden, meant to cultivate some for Heaven, etc. But not for all that are right now here though, since they are only ever needed just to inflict/do most of the evil for the others that are always getting to go to Heaven after this temporarily.

Those getting to go to Heaven after this required that first, which is what always makes/made the others always necessary temporarily each time it happens, or is needed temporarily, etc.

God Bless.

And as far as the descriptions of hell goes, it is not like a fire that is never put out for them, and that they are never fully consumed by, etc. And "weeping and gnashing of teeth", are not the ones that primarily inflict the evil or do the torment all of the time, always going back and forth on that roller coaster ride between crying, or being sad/down/depressed/never satisfied, and angry all of the time? Never achieving any kind of rest from themselves, or any true stability ever? So, yeah, that is their miserable existence forever each time basically, etc, since they cannot/never have been/will be ever able to change it ever always, etc, because under determinism, it is all fixed for everybody, even though we don't know, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Clare73]

Did not Jesus upend the whole " an eye for and eye thing" that idea of justice was fulfilled in Jesus,

All fulfillment in Jesus is only for those who are in Jesus through faith.

now we are under grace, where sin abounds grace abounds all the more.

No one is under grace who is not in Jesus through faith.

 

[Clare73]

Which means someone knocks out one your teeth, you get to knovk out one of his... and no more! YOu don't get to damage him more then he damaged you. You don't get to kill him. or torture him for the rest of his life. There was no sliding scale for those richer/smarter/more poerful/more iiportant than you.

Finite offenses, which damage God not at all,

All sin is against God, no sin is against man.

are to be given infinte punishment, and the miscreant kept alive to suffer eternally without hope. That's "just"? Far, far from it. That's the act of a merviless monster, and there's no way to put a better face on it. Is that the example God Himself set for us when He walked among us? No! It's 180 degrees out of phase with what our Lord lived and taught.
Got any Scripture to support that ghastly and pernicious belieg?

Do you know the NT?

Have you read Jesus' teaching in Mk 9:42-48?

Selective memory?

 

[Clare73]

Which means someone knocks out one your teeth, you get to knovk out one of his... and no more! YOu don't get to damage him more then he damaged you. You don't get to kill him. or torture him for the rest of his life. There was no sliding scale for those richer/smarter/more poerful/more iiportant than you.

Finite offenses, which damage God not at all, are to be given infinte punishment,

All sin is against God (1 Jn 3:4, Ro 3:23).
Man has no eternal authority to punish anyone for sin against God.

and the miscreant kept alive to suffer eternally without hope. That's "just"? Far, far from it. That's the act of a merviless monster, and there's no way to put a better face on it. Is that the example God Himself set for us when He walked among us? No! It's 180 degrees out of phase with what our Lord lived and taught.

Got any Scripture to support that ghastly and pernicious being?

So you've never read Mk 9:42-48. . .

Perhaps being more Biblically informed would be helpful here.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

All fulfillment in Jesus is only for those who are in Jesus through faith.

No one is under grace who is not in Jesus through faith.

So you do not believe that two are all under the new covenant.

 

[Clare73]

So you do not believe that two are all under the new covenant.

What "two?"

 

[Lukaris]

In John 3:16-21 the condemnation is applied to willful unbelief ( as opposed to ignorance) whereas, proceeding to verse 21, we are told there are those God will determine who did good & came to the light (Proverbs 15:3, John 5:22-30).

 

[Jeff Saunders]

What "two?"

should have been all not two

 

[Clare73]

should have been all not two

All mankind are under the new covenant?

 

[Dan Perez]

should have been all not two

And Hebrews 10:29 says this , that they have Trampled. under foot the BLOOD of Christ and and the covenant and done

despite unto the Spirit of Grace .

dan p

 

[Jeff Saunders]

All mankind are under the new covenant?

yes all mankind are under the new covenant, 2 Cor 5:14-15 " For the love of the Anointed constrains us, having reached this judgement: that one died on behalf of all; all then have died; And he died on behalf of all so that the living should live no longer for themselves, but for the one who has died and been raised on their behalf."

 

[Jeff Saunders]

And Hebrews 10:29 says this , that they have Trampled. under foot the BLOOD of Christ and and the covenant and done

despite unto the Spirit of Grace .

dan p

All those who do not believe that the blood of Jesus reconciled all to God, trample on the blood, thinking that it only for a few or that only for those who can save themselves by conjuring up enough faith to do whatever tradition they follow says they must do to be on the in crowd.

 

[David Lamb]

All those who do not believe that the blood of Jesus reconciled all to God, trample on the blood, thinking that it only for a few or that only for those who can save themselves by conjuring up enough faith to do whatever tradition they follow says they must do to be on the in crowd.

But belief/faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is required for a sinner to be saved. This is stated many times in the bible, for example:

““He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.”” (Joh 3:36 NKJV)

“So they said, “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”” (Ac 16:31 NKJV)

“8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.” (Eph 2:8-10 NKJV)

Nothing to do with "conjuring up" faith, or things the sinner must do.

 

[Clare73]

yes all mankind are under the new covenant, 2 Cor 5:14-15 " For the love of the Anointed constrains us, having reached this judgement: that one died on behalf of all; all then have died; And he died on behalf of all so that the living should live no longer for themselves, but for the one who has died and been raised on their behalf."

Paul is writing to Christians, not to all mankind (1 Pe 1:2).

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Paul is writing to Christians, not to all mankind (1 Pe 1:2).

If you want to believe that I hope it works out for you, but I know that that is not correct, in Jesus death and resurrection God was reconciling the cosmos to himself, that is all of humanity, he will stop at nothing till all his creation is reconciled.

 

[Clare73]

If you want to believe that I hope it works out for you, but I know that that is not correct, in Jesus death and resurrection God was reconciling the cosmos to himself, that is all of humanity, he will stop at nothing till all his creation is reconciled.

The cosmos is the world.
The "world" here, in the light of the rest of the NT, means both Gentiles and Jews, not all Gentiles and Jews.