How does the idea that most of Gods creation he will have to burn forever bring glory to God?

[Clare73]

I believe 1 Cor 15:28 that in the end " God will be all in all " it will happen, how it will all work out I do not know, but I know God is love and he does not do abandonment.

Corinthians is addressed to those in Christ who definitely will not be abandoned.

God is just also (2 Th 1:6, 8-10, Dt 32:4, Ps 89:14), and when he judges he will oblige all to agree with it (Php 2:10).

 

[Hentenza]

I believe 1 Cor 15:28 that in the end " God will be all in all " it will happen, how it will all work out I do not know, but I know God is love and he does not do abandonment.

Demons too? All I can say is WOW .

 

[Jipsah]

What "issue" does the NT raise regarding eternal torment presented by Jesus in Mt 25:46

Torment? In what translation is "torment" used. The common English translation is "punishment", for which being annihilated and never having existed (would describe perfectly. "

Matthew 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

If God never knew you, you never existed at all, ever, eternally.

, as well as by John in Rev 14:11?

Taking apocalyptic literature literally is a risky basis for dogma. And I agree with Martin Luther's opinion of the Revelation. "

" My spirit cannot accommodate itself to this book. For me this is reason enough not to think highly of it: Christ is neither taught nor known in it. But to teach Christ, this is the thing which an apostle is bound above all else to do; as Christ says in Acts 1[:8], “You shall be my witnesses.” Therefore I stick to the books which present Christ to me clearly and purely. https://www.universitylutheran.church/luther-on-revelation.htm

Jesus is the only one in the NT to speak (Mt 25:46, Mk 9:42-48) of hell (Gehenna).
We did not know it until he revealed it.

Where the condemned are destroyed.

Matthew 10:28
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Oh, but it doesn't really mean "destroy", right? Bosh, it says what it says.
Plus, there's no eternal life in hell. The wages of sin is death. Eternal life is the gift of God, not a wat of keeping oine alive to be tortured more. The damnationist doctrine of eternal life in hell makes a mockery of the gift of God to the redeemed.

 

[Jipsah]

I wasn't making a point, I was asking questions in response to someone else's point in the hope that they would clarify their point.

I found the notion that St. Paul wasn't made to do anything against his will seems to ignore the fact that God knocked him down in the road, struck him blind, and denounced Paul for persecuting Him kind of belies the notion that Paul was right in sync with God's will from start to finish. <Laugh>

 

[Jipsah]

Demons too? All I can say is WOW .

Yeah, O mean, not even God can redeem a demon. I mean, He didn't even create them... oh, wait...

 

[David Lamb]

Yeah, O mean, not even God can redeem a demon. I mean, He didn't even create them... oh, wait...

He could if He wanted to. Not sure if you are saying that God didn't create demons, or if those little words, " oh wait" show that you believe He did create them.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

What "issue" does the NT raise regarding eternal torment presented by Jesus in Mt 25:46, as well as by John in Rev 14:11?

Jesus is the only one in the NT to speak (Mt 25:46, Mk 9:42-48) of hell (Gehenna).
We did not know it until he revealed it.

If you believe that "hell" was not revealed till Jesus, why would God let all of humanity up till Jesus not know that if they did not follow Jesus they would burn forever? Eternal hell is no place in the old Testament at all, that sounds kind of cruel of God not telling them they would burn forever and not just that their mortal body would die as was told to Adam.

 

[Clare73]

Torment? In what translation is "torment" used. The common English translation is "punishment", for which being annihilated and never having existed would describe perfectly. "

"Torment" (basanos) is found in Lk 16:23, 28.

"Punishment" (kolasis) is found in 1 Jn 4:18.

Matthew 7:23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

If God never knew you, you never existed at all, ever, eternally.

I guess Jesus got it wrong when he said, "Many will say to me on that day. . .Then I will tell them plainly. . ." (Mt 7:22-23)

Where the condemned are destroyed.
Matthew 10:28
"And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Oh, but it doesn't really mean "destroy", right?

In the Greek, destroy (apollumi) means ruin, loss of well-being; e.g.,
Lk 5:37 - marring of wine skins,
Lk 15:4, 6 - lost sheep,
Lk 15:4 - lost son,
Jn 6:27 - perishing food,
1 Pe 1:7 - perishing gold,
Mt 2:13, 27:20, 8:25, 22:7 - persons' loss of well being.

 

[Clare73]

If you believe that "hell" was not revealed till Jesus, why would God let all of humanity up till Jesus not know that if they did not follow Jesus they would burn forever? Eternal hell is no place in the old Testament at all, that sounds kind of cruel of God not telling them they would burn forever and not just that their mortal body would die as was told to Adam.

You'll have to take that up with God. . .it's above my pay grade.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

You'll have to take that up with God. . .it's above my pay grade.

Or maybe your tradition has it wrong.

 

[Clare73]

Or maybe your tradition has it wrong.

Irrelevant to my statement. . .

 

[Aaron112]

Who made that rule?

The devil ?

The Creator's Rules are Perfect and Righteous Always, Restoring Life and always Just including when someone is condemned..

The lost seemingly or actually cannot receive them if they refuse to believe Him.

 

[Neogaia777]

If creation is to bring about Gods glory, how does it bring God glory, if he knows that most of his creation he will have to burn forever, but he goes ahead and creates anyway knowing what the outcome will be. All the pain and suffering that people go through, wars, famine, slavery, human trafficking, and all the rest of this fallen world, and in the end, a small fraction of creation comes out good in the end, and people say that this if for Gods glory?
Now what if Jesus was really the savior of the cosmos as John 4:42 says and what if God was really reconciling the world to himself not counting mens trespasses against them, 2 Cor 5:19 but the scripture that says where sin abounds mercy abounds even more.Rom 5:20. Now if Gods plan was to have a creation that would love him out of free will and the last 6000 years and till the end, were Gods way of bringing about the result that all his creation would worship him out of free will and in the end God will be all in all 1 Cor 15:28. Sin and death are no more, not just stuck in a place that God has to keep going forever and listen to the screams of his people for all eternity, what if God in the end would make a new heaven and new earth and the old is done and all is new, his whole creation living in him out of free will love, no more sin and death its gone forever.
I ask you how does God losing most of his creation and then having to burn it forever bring glory to God?
Does not the idea that God knew what he was doing, and had a plan, and had all that it would take to accomplish the plan, to bring all his creation into a love with him, forever and sin and death are no more, and God will be all in all. Does this not bring more glory to God?

Some people's fates are sealed, and they always have been, and they cannot be changed by anybody. But we don't know who is who ever, or what side/end their going to wind up on, and so we are just called to love everybody, and give everyone the benefit of the doubt always, etc.

How does it bring glory to God? Well, it doesn't really, but it just might make some of us much more in awe of Him once we see how the judgements are decided or are handed out/up/down on the other side of eternity for everybody, etc.

But you also need to understand that some of these people are always necessary for a time, in order that some others might get to go to Heaven always, and that is why they always are, or do always exist for a time, but their "eternity" is always in just repeating these exact same kind of existences here each and every single time, and that is forever always, just as it has always been from forever in the past always, etc, and it can't ever be changed ever by or for anybody, etc. But we don't ever know who's who ever though, and we don't have that level of knowledge, and so we are just called to love everybody, etc.

God Bless.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Some people's fates are sealed, and they always have been, and they cannot be changed by anybody. But we don't know who is who ever, or what side/end their going to wind up on, and so we are just called to love everybody, and give everyone the benefit of the doubt always, etc.

How does it bring glory to God? Well, it doesn't really, but it just might make some of us much more in awe of Him once we see how the judgements are decided or are handed out/up/down on the other side of eternity for everybody, etc.

But you also need to understand that some of these people are always necessary for a time, in order that some others might get to go to Heaven always, and that is why they always are, or do always exist for a time, but their "eternity" is always in just repeating these exact same kind of existences here each and every single time, and that is forever always, just as it has always been from forever in the past always, etc, and it can't ever be changed ever by or for anybody, etc. But we don't ever know who's who ever though, and we don't have that level of knowledge, and so we are just called to love everybody, etc.

God Bless.

If peoples fates are sealed then why do anything at all ? It seems like being a con man, telling people come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest, when under you way of thinking their fate is sealed, that's not being honest, and I do not think even with this view would say Jesus is not honest.
The notion that it brings God more glory that most suffer eternal torture and those few who do not are so much more appreciative of what he has done, is pure hog wash, the God who saves all his creation and loses none has much more glory than the one who either can't get the job done or who doesn't care if he creates people just to torture forever.

 

[Clare73]

If peoples fates are sealed then why do anything at all ? It seems like being a con man, telling people come to me all you who are weary and heavy laden and I will give you rest, when under you way of thinking their fate is sealed, that's not being honest, and I do not think even with this view would say Jesus is not honest.

No one comes to God unless they are enabled by the Holy Spirit (Jn 6:65).
All that the Father gives to Jesus will come to Jesus (Jn 6:37). . .not all come, therefore, not all are given to Jesus.
Jesus shall lose none of all that the Father has given him (Jn 6:39).

The invitation is to those hearers whom God enables.

The notion that it brings God more glory that most suffer eternal torture and those few who do not are so much more appreciative of what he has done, is pure hog wash,

Sorry you see Ro 9:22-23 as hogwash.

God who saves all his creation and loses none has much more glory

Sez who? . . .not God. . .your're creating God in your own image.

God is not only love, mercy, etc., he is also justice. . .and all, not just some, of his attributes are glorified in creation.