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Icons of Evolution

Shemjaza

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I also suspect the best available scientific explanation for how Jesus turned water into wine is not even close to the truth.

Science is the god of atheism ... aka Scientism.

It's not a religion, just an extremely reliable system.

The use of religious as an insult and accusation to the nonreligious by those who believe always strikes me as extremely self defeating.

The principles of evolution (eg, mutation, natural selection) have certainly proven useful in the production of medicines.

You used the term, "the theory of evolution", which I understand to be an explanation of the biological process that allegedly produced the history of life on earth.
Alleged prehistoric evolutionary events are irrelevant to medication production.

Not true.

The pattern of relatedness between species that is explained by the theory of evolution is useful for studying ancient diseases as well as a tool in using animals for testing on humans.
 
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Buzzard3

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Not true.

The pattern of relatedness between species that is explained by the theory of evolution is useful for studying ancient diseases as well as a tool in using animals for testing on humans.
So you're saying, in order for researchers to use animals for test drugs meant for humans, the researchers have to accept the theory that those animals and humans share a common ancestor. Fascinating.

I disagree with your claim. I say it's the physical similarities between animals and humans that medical research finds useful, not the explanation for the similarities. The explanation for the similarities is actually irrelevant and useless.

If no one believed animals and humans share a common ancestor, animals would still be used for testing in medical research, and just as effectively.
 
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Shemjaza

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So you're saying, in order for researchers to use animals for test drugs meant for humans, the researchers have to accept the theory that those animals and humans share a common ancestor. Fascinating.

I disagree with your claim. I say it's the physical similarities between animals and humans that medical research finds useful, not the explanation for the similarities. The explanation for the similarities is actually irrelevant and useless.

If no one believed animals and humans share a common ancestor, animals would still be used for testing in medical research, and just as effectively.
It's the pattern of similarities that can be used and followed to aid in research to help humans.

The evolutionary explanation massively helps in comprehending genetic patterns and connections.
 
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BCP1928

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I also suspect the best available scientific explanation for how Jesus turned water into wine is not even close to the truth.

Science is the god of atheism ... aka Scientism.
Science does not offer an explanation of how Jesus turned water into wine because there is no evidence on which to base it.
 
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Fervent

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The principles of evolution (eg, mutation, natural selection) have certainly proven useful in the production of medicines.
The theory is the mechanism combined with analysis of the successful predictions.
You used the term, "the theory of evolution", which I understand to be an explanation of the biological process that allegedly produced the history of life on earth.
Alleged prehistoric evolutionary events are irrelevant to medication production.
Common descent is a consequent of the theory, not the theory itself. The theory is the mechanism, its description, and the predictions that it makes both about how applying certain selection pressures will change specific aspects of organisms and what we can expect to find in future fossil discoveries. It works, so it continues to be of interest. It's a rather short jaunt from it working to notions of it being an accurate(true) approximation of what has actually occurred, but provisional approximate truth is a far different animal from absolute truth.
 
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AV1611VET

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Well, that's the mentality of the general populace. They think all those very clever scientists can't possibly be wrong.

The general populace pays for it too.

Just look at the mothers who took Thalidomide, and those who died in L'Aquila.

Not to mention the fact that cigarettes were prescribed for certain ailments by doctors at one time.

It's also seems to be the mentality of 99.99% of biologists, who by the time they've graduated from university, have been thoroughly indoctrinated by neo-Darwinism.

Yup!
 
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AV1611VET

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What a slanderous falsehood. No scientist, atheist or otherwise, accepts any scientific theory as absolute truth including the theory of evolution and you know it. Scientific theories are not absolute truth by definition.

Would they base their lives on medicine forged by evolutionary theories?

Would they prescribe it to the general public if it passed their preliminary tests?
 
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AV1611VET

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You're language is unclear... but if we're using "absolute truth" as being "beyond all reasonable doubt" then sure... but more Christians accept it than atheists.

Who taught it to them?
 
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AV1611VET

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It's profoundly supported by the evidence and so without a personal religious conviction to the contrary, there's no reason to reject it.

Does that go for mifepristone and misoprostol as well?
 
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BCP1928

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Would they base their lives on medicine forged by evolutionary theories?

Would they prescribe it to the general public if it passed their preliminary tests?
That fairy story of yours about how scienceis are solely responsible for the Thalidomide tragedy is beginning to be nothing but malicious trolling.
 
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AV1611VET

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That fairy story of yours about how science is are solely responsible for the Thalidomide tragedy is beginning to be nothing but malicious trolling.

Good point.

I forgot to blame the mothers who put their faith in what the label on the drug bottle was telling them.

:doh:
 
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BCP1928

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Good point.

I forgot to blame the mothers who put their faith in what the label on the drug bottle was telling them.

:doh:
It was their doctors who were telling them, and doctors are not scientists. The doctors were told by pharmaceutical salesmen who are not scientists either.
 
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AV1611VET

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It was their doctors who were telling them, and doctors are not scientists. The doctors were told by pharmaceutical salesmen who are not scientists either.

And who told the pharmaceutical salesmen?

Tell me where the buck should stop.

(Here comes 404.)
 
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BCP1928

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And who told the pharmaceutical salesmen?

Tell me where the buck should stop.

(Here comes 404.)
With the management of the company which produced the drug. Where else? It wasn't scientists who decided to use the drug for another purpose than the one for which they developed it.
 
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Buzzard3

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The evolutionary explanation massively helps in comprehending genetic patterns and connections.
Sure ... according to the theory of common descent ... which is irrelevant to the actual testing on animals.
No disease was ever cured by a theory. Physical realities cure diseases, not explanations for why those realities exist.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Sure ... according to the theory of common descent ... which is irrelevant to the actual testing on animals.
No disease was ever cured by a theory. Physical realities cure diseases, not explanations for why those realities exist.

So germ theory of disease never worked? REALLY?!
 
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sjastro

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The development of new antibiotics to combat the evolution of resistant strains of bacteria provides an excellent example of the application of the theory of evolution.

AspectEvolutionary PrincipleHow Pathogens Use It to Evolve ResistanceSpecific Ancestor ExampleHow Medicine Uses Evolution to Counter Resistance
MutationRandom genetic change introduces variationSpontaneous mutations in bacterial genes confer resistance (e.g., rpsL)Mycobacterium tuberculosis H37Rv (pre-streptomycin)Screen for naturally occurring bacterial compounds (e.g., streptomycin); use mutagenesis to find weak spots in bacteria
Natural SelectionFitter variants survive and reproduceDrug-resistant strains survive treatment and dominateStaphylococcus aureus 8325-4 (pre-penicillin resistance)Use high-throughput evolution models to simulate resistance and pre-select drugs less likely to fail
Variation within PopulationsGenetic diversity affects survival outcomesResistant subpopulations survive while others dieMycobacterium tuberculosis wild strains (mixed katG variants)Tailor combination therapy (e.g., rifampin + isoniazid) to minimize survival of diverse resistant clones
AdaptationPopulations evolve to changing environmentsEnterococcus faecium evolves vancomycin resistance via vanA genesE. faecium DO (vancomycin-sensitive)Develop next-generation antibiotics targeting new pathways (e.g., linezolid targeting protein synthesis)
Survival of the FittestMost fit reproduce in the new environmentMDR strains outcompete sensitive ones in drug-rich environmentsKlebsiella pneumoniae ATCC 13883Rotate or cycle antibiotics in hospitals to reduce selective pressure on any one resistance trait
Selective PressureEnvironmental conditions shape evolutionAntibiotic overuse selects resistant bacteriaE. coli K-12 (pre-fluoroquinolone resistance)Use antimicrobial stewardship to reduce unnecessary pressure; limit broad-spectrum drug use
Co-evolutionInteracting species evolve in responseBacteria develop β-lactamases, we develop β-lactamase inhibitorsH. influenzae Rd KW20 (non–β-lactamase producer)Design inhibitors (e.g., clavulanic acid) based on enzyme evolution structure modeling
Evolutionary Arms RaceOngoing adaptations between rivalsPathogens modify surface proteins to evade immunityBordetella pertussis Tohama IContinuously update vaccine components (e.g., DTaP formulation changes) to match new variants
Genetic Drift / Gene FlowRandom changes & horizontal gene transferResistance genes spread across species (e.g., CTX-M plasmids)E. coli K-12 & Klebsiella MGH 78578 (pre-ESBL)Use genomic surveillance to monitor plasmid transmission and inform targeted antibiotic policies
Predictive Power of EvolutionEvolutionary models can forecast changeStreptococcus pneumoniae shifts to non-vaccine serotypesS. pneumoniae D39 (serotype 2)Predict future mutations and preemptively design mRNA or conjugate vaccines (e.g., PCV13, mRNA COVID-19 updates)
 
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Shemjaza

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Sure ... according to the theory of common descent ... which is irrelevant to the actual testing on animals.
No disease was ever cured by a theory. Physical realities cure diseases, not explanations for why those realities exist.
Evolutionary theory is used for tracking changes it's also function as a guide for examining animals. Genetics is one pathway and inherited traits are understood via the demonstrated mechanisms of evolution.
 
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