How does the idea that most of Gods creation he will have to burn forever bring glory to God?

[Jeff Saunders]

If creation is to bring about Gods glory, how does it bring God glory, if he knows that most of his creation he will have to burn forever, but he goes ahead and creates anyway knowing what the outcome will be. All the pain and suffering that people go through, wars, famine, slavery, human trafficking, and all the rest of this fallen world, and in the end, a small fraction of creation comes out good in the end, and people say that this if for Gods glory?
Now what if Jesus was really the savior of the cosmos as John 4:42 says and what if God was really reconciling the world to himself not counting mens trespasses against them, 2 Cor 5:19 but the scripture that says where sin abounds mercy abounds even more.Rom 5:20. Now if Gods plan was to have a creation that would love him out of free will and the last 6000 years and till the end, were Gods way of bringing about the result that all his creation would worship him out of free will and in the end God will be all in all 1 Cor 15:28. Sin and death are no more, not just stuck in a place that God has to keep going forever and listen to the screams of his people for all eternity, what if God in the end would make a new heaven and new earth and the old is done and all is new, his whole creation living in him out of free will love, no more sin and death its gone forever.
I ask you how does God losing most of his creation and then having to burn it forever bring glory to God?
Does not the idea that God knew what he was doing, and had a plan, and had all that it would take to accomplish the plan, to bring all his creation into a love with him, forever and sin and death are no more, and God will be all in all. Does this not bring more glory to God?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

If creation is to bring about Gods glory, how does it bring God glory, if he knows that most of his creation he will have to burn forever, but he goes ahead and creates anyway knowing what the outcome will be. All the pain and suffering that people go through, wars, famine, slavery, human trafficking, and all the rest of this fallen world, and in the end, a small fraction of creation comes out good in the end, and people say that this if for Gods glory?
Now what if Jesus was really the savior of the cosmos as John 4:42 says and what if God was really reconciling the world to himself not counting mens trespasses against them, 2 Cor 5:19 but the scripture that says where sin abounds mercy abounds even more.Rom 5:20. Now if Gods plan was to have a creation that would love him out of free will and the last 6000 years and till the end, were Gods way of bringing about the result that all his creation would worship him out of free will and in the end God will be all in all 1 Cor 15:28. Sin and death are no more, not just stuck in a place that God has to keep going forever and listen to the screams of his people for all eternity, what if God in the end would make a new heaven and new earth and the old is done and all is new, his whole creation living in him out of free will love, no more sin and death its gone forever.
I ask you how does God losing most of his creation and then having to burn it forever bring glory to God?
Does not the idea that God knew what he was doing, and had a plan, and had all that it would take to accomplish the plan, to bring all his creation into a love with him, forever and sin and death are no more, and God will be all in all. Does this not bring more glory to God?

How many generations did it take to bring the Messiah into the world? Some of those souls in the lineage of Jesus Christ of Nazareth were bad actors however, necessary. Contrary to Reformed, ( Calvanist) thinking, our Father does not create just to destroy, He creates so that the remnant survive. Who are the remnant?
In scripture, "the Remnant" refers to a group of people who remain faithful to God despite widespread apostasy, persecution, or judgment. Anyone can be part of the remnant if they choose to be.
Blessings

 

[Jeff Saunders]

How many generations did it take to bring the Messiah into the world? Some of those souls in the lineage of Jesus Christ of Nazareth were bad actors however, necessary. Contrary to Reformed, ( Calvanist) thinking, our Father does not create just to destroy, He creates so that the remnant survive. Who are the remnant?
In scripture, "the Remnant" refers to a group of people who remain faithful to God despite widespread apostasy, persecution, or judgment. Anyone can be part of the remnant if they choose to be.
Blessings

If God creates so that the remnant survive, how is that any different from what Calvinist teach? God know the beginning from the end so the outcome is the same, he would still create most to be tortured for the few. The only difference is does God decide who " gets in and who doesn't " or does man decide and mans will is stronger than Gods will, but the outcome is still the same.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If creation is to bring about Gods glory, how does it bring God glory, if he knows that most of his creation he will have to burn forever, but he goes ahead and creates anyway knowing what the outcome will be. All the pain and suffering that people go through, wars, famine, slavery, human trafficking, and all the rest of this fallen world, and in the end, a small fraction of creation comes out good in the end, and people say that this if for Gods glory?
Now what if Jesus was really the savior of the cosmos as John 4:42 says and what if God was really reconciling the world to himself not counting mens trespasses against them, 2 Cor 5:19 but the scripture that says where sin abounds mercy abounds even more.Rom 5:20. Now if Gods plan was to have a creation that would love him out of free will and the last 6000 years and till the end, were Gods way of bringing about the result that all his creation would worship him out of free will and in the end God will be all in all 1 Cor 15:28. Sin and death are no more, not just stuck in a place that God has to keep going forever and listen to the screams of his people for all eternity, what if God in the end would make a new heaven and new earth and the old is done and all is new, his whole creation living in him out of free will love, no more sin and death its gone forever.
I ask you how does God losing most of his creation and then having to burn it forever bring glory to God?
Does not the idea that God knew what he was doing, and had a plan, and had all that it would take to accomplish the plan, to bring all his creation into a love with him, forever and sin and death are no more, and God will be all in all. Does this not bring more glory to God?

Creation brings glory to God in the sense that man will glorify God. God was always just as glorious before creation as He is now

 

[bling]

If creation is to bring about Gods glory, how does it bring God glory, if he knows that most of his creation he will have to burn forever, but he goes ahead and creates anyway knowing what the outcome will be. All the pain and suffering that people go through, wars, famine, slavery, human trafficking, and all the rest of this fallen world, and in the end, a small fraction of creation comes out good in the end, and people say that this if for Gods glory?
Now what if Jesus was really the savior of the cosmos as John 4:42 says and what if God was really reconciling the world to himself not counting mens trespasses against them, 2 Cor 5:19 but the scripture that says where sin abounds mercy abounds even more.Rom 5:20. Now if Gods plan was to have a creation that would love him out of free will and the last 6000 years and till the end, were Gods way of bringing about the result that all his creation would worship him out of free will and in the end God will be all in all 1 Cor 15:28. Sin and death are no more, not just stuck in a place that God has to keep going forever and listen to the screams of his people for all eternity, what if God in the end would make a new heaven and new earth and the old is done and all is new, his whole creation living in him out of free will love, no more sin and death its gone forever.
I ask you how does God losing most of his creation and then having to burn it forever bring glory to God?
Does not the idea that God knew what he was doing, and had a plan, and had all that it would take to accomplish the plan, to bring all his creation into a love with him, forever and sin and death are no more, and God will be all in all. Does this not bring more glory to God?

God is “Glorious” no matter what, so it is not creation which makes Him glorious, but who God is (God being Love itself) makes Him Glorious.

We can see an unbelievable wonderful universe, but why did God make this universe in the first place?

If God is the epitome of “Love” so, He does everything for the sake of others (He is totally unselfish), which is also His sake, but why?

If there are no longer people in the “Universe” than there is no longer a reason for God to maintain the universe, for heaven is a better place.

God’s Love is God’s glory and nothing else compares to God’s Love.

You talk about Loving God with free will but God’s Love for us is totally, unselfish, sacrificial, unconditional, and extremely compelling for God, since it Compels God to do all He does is it the most powerful force in the Universe?

How do we get such a Love?

What is God trying to accomplish by sacrificing a beautiful very good world, billions of his rebellious children being lost and most importantly allowing his only son to be tortured, humiliated and murdered on the cross?

Everything is driven by the objective and the objective is not to just live forever in heaven nor just not to sin, yet eternal life is one of the results of our fulfilling our earthly objective.

Has God given man a mission statement? (this is always good to have)

You can take any command in scripture and have Biblical support for calling that command “Man’s Objective” since Biblical said do it, but there are two overriding commands all other commands are bases on and subordinated to.

Would “Loving God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy” be our Mission statement given as two commands?

This Godly type Love is defined by Jesus’ words and deeds (you can also use 1 Cor 13 and 1 John 4), so what is that?

Is God this ultimate Lover? Would that “Love” compel even God to make beings that could Love like He Loves (this “Love of God” is totally unselfish [a measurement for pure Love] and thus is not for God’s sake at all, but is totally for the sake of others [which would also be God’s sake])?

So, if God is not doing anything for His own sake and everything for the sake of others, would He be expecting or needing anything from man or would God just be trying to give the greatest gifts He could give to man?

Are there something God just cannot do: like make another Christ, since Christ was never made but always existed?

Could God place this Godly type Love in a person at his/her creation (an instinctive love) or would an instinctive love be like a robotic love and not like God’s Love?

Could God just force His Love on man against the “will” of man or would that be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun?

What does man need that he does not have instinctively in order for man to fulfill His Mission?

Man must have a very limited amount of autonomous free will to make at least the one choice to humbly accept or reject God’s Love (forgiveness/mercy/grace/charity).

Man’s objective seems to be to obtain and grow this Godly type Love to fulfill the mission (statement) of Love God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.

Our “objective” while here on earth is to just accept God’s gift as it was given as pure charity, this will enable us to fulfill our mission.

God is not trying to get you to do something, but is trying to give you something.

The problem is not sin (unforgiven sin is a huge problem), because God will forgive our sins which helps us to Love (…he that is forgiven much will Love much….Luke 7) God hates sin, but does allow it, so we can more easily accept His Love (in the form of forgiveness the easiest way for us to accept His charity). The problem is always our fulfilling our objective.

The easiest way for humans to accept God’s charity (Love) is out of a huge need and that need is the relief from the burden of hurting others in the past (sin). By a free willing acceptance of God’s forgiveness, we accept God’s Love (mercy/grace/charity) and thus we will Love much (a Godly type Love, automatically given) since Jesus has taught us (we also see this in our own lives) “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” Luke 7: 36-50.

This world is “very good”, but not “perfect” like heaven is perfect and does not have the same purpose as heaven. This messed up world is actually the very best place for willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective.

Death is not “bad” in and of itself for now, but the way good people go home and the way bad people quit doing bad stuff.

It is truly tragic and unfortunate that Christ had to be tortured, humiliated and murdered in order to help willing humans in their fulfilling of their objective, but God is willing to make huge sacrifices to help willing individuals. It is also very sad other humans who had the opportunity to fulfill their primary earthly objective continued to refuse God’s charity to the point they would never of their own free will accepted God’s charity. These refusers of God Loved are still Loved but will go to their death and destruction as a help to some other humans who have not refused God’s help to the point of never accepting His help.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

If God creates so that the remnant survive, how is that any different from what Calvinist teach? God know the beginning from the end so the outcome is the same, he would still create most to be tortured for the few. The only difference is does God decide who " gets in and who doesn't " or does man decide and mans will is stronger than Gods will, but the outcome is still the same.

The remnant are those who believe and who have made the " choice " to believe. This is not the theological view of Calvanisim which teaches that God chooses " who" will believe.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

If creation is to bring about Gods glory, how does it bring God glory, if he knows that most of his creation he will have to burn forever, but he goes ahead and creates anyway knowing what the outcome will be.

What do you mean "burn forever"? Are you thinking that when it talks about people being cast into a furnace of fire (Matt 13:42, 50), everlasting fire (Matt 25:41) and the lake of fire (Rev 20:15) that it's talking about them literally, physically burning in fire? That's not what it's saying. It's figurative text. It seems that maybe you believe in universal salvation only because you can't comprehend God making people literally burn in fire forever, but that's not what it's talking about. They will be separated from God forever because that is what they indicated that they wanted. Their torment will consist of their regret and sorrow over not repenting when they had the chance. They will not be literally burning in fire. God is going to give everyone an eternal destiny based on their choices in this lifetime. He's not going to have anyone spend eternity with Him who indicated that they don't want that.

All the pain and suffering that people go through, wars, famine, slavery, human trafficking, and all the rest of this fallen world, and in the end, a small fraction of creation comes out good in the end, and people say that this if for Gods glory?

Are humans robots? No. How would God just programming robots to do what He wanted them to do be for His glory?

Now what if Jesus was really the savior of the cosmos as John 4:42 says and what if God was really reconciling the world to himself not counting mens trespasses against them, 2 Cor 5:19 but the scripture that says where sin abounds mercy abounds even more.Rom 5:20. Now if Gods plan was to have a creation that would love him out of free will and the last 6000 years and till the end, were Gods way of bringing about the result that all his creation would worship him out of free will and in the end God will be all in all 1 Cor 15:28. Sin and death are no more, not just stuck in a place that God has to keep going forever and listen to the screams of his people for all eternity, what if God in the end would make a new heaven and new earth and the old is done and all is new, his whole creation living in him out of free will love, no more sin and death its gone forever.
I ask you how does God losing most of his creation and then having to burn it forever bring glory to God?

I ask again, how would God programming humans as if they were robots to do His will bring glory to God?

Does not the idea that God knew what he was doing, and had a plan, and had all that it would take to accomplish the plan, to bring all his creation into a love with him, forever and sin and death are no more, and God will be all in all. Does this not bring more glory to God?

Basically forcing people to do what He wants would bring more glory to God? No, not at all. God deserves all the glory for giving all people the opportunity to be saved and to have eternal life. If He forced everyone to believe in Him and worship Him rather than giving them free will and allowing them to choose whether to worship Him or not would take away from His glory.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

Creation brings glory to God in the sense that man will glorify God. God was always just as glorious before creation as He is now

How do those who are " burning forever" glorify God , I want to know that, because that is what most believe.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

If God creates so that the remnant survive, how is that any different from what Calvinist teach? God know the beginning from the end so the outcome is the same, he would still create most to be tortured for the few. The only difference is does God decide who " gets in and who doesn't " or does man decide and mans will is stronger than Gods will, but the outcome is still the same.

God giving man free will has nothing to do with man's will being stronger than God's will. God is the One who made that decision to give man free will in the first place, so how could man's will be stronger than God's will in that case? His will was not to create robots, but rather human beings with a spirit, a mind and a conscience with the ability to make their own choices.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

How do those who are " burning forever" glorify God , I want to know that, because that is what most believe.

They are not literally "burning forever", but their separation from God forever shows that He is a holy God who, while very patient and slow to anger, does not tolerate unrepentant sin forever and that glorifies God as the holy God that He is. If God allowed people to be with Him for eternity despite them repeatedly rejecting Him and rebelling against Him their whole lives, how would that glorify God?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

God is “Glorious” no matter what, so it is not creation which makes Him glorious, but who God is (God being Love itself) makes Him Glorious.

We can see an unbelievable wonderful universe, but why did God make this universe in the first place?

If God is the epitome of “Love” so, He does everything for the sake of others (He is totally unselfish), which is also His sake, but why?

If there are no longer people in the “Universe” than there is no longer a reason for God to maintain the universe, for heaven is a better place.

God’s Love is God’s glory and nothing else compares to God’s Love.

You talk about Loving God with free will but God’s Love for us is totally, unselfish, sacrificial, unconditional, and extremely compelling for God, since it Compels God to do all He does is it the most powerful force in the Universe?

How do we get such a Love?

What is God trying to accomplish by sacrificing a beautiful very good world, billions of his rebellious children being lost and most importantly allowing his only son to be tortured, humiliated and murdered on the cross?

Everything is driven by the objective and the objective is not to just live forever in heaven nor just not to sin, yet eternal life is one of the results of our fulfilling our earthly objective.

Has God given man a mission statement? (this is always good to have)

You can take any command in scripture and have Biblical support for calling that command “Man’s Objective” since Biblical said do it, but there are two overriding commands all other commands are bases on and subordinated to.

Would “Loving God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy” be our Mission statement given as two commands?

This Godly type Love is defined by Jesus’ words and deeds (you can also use 1 Cor 13 and 1 John 4), so what is that?

Is God this ultimate Lover? Would that “Love” compel even God to make beings that could Love like He Loves (this “Love of God” is totally unselfish [a measurement for pure Love] and thus is not for God’s sake at all, but is totally for the sake of others [which would also be God’s sake])?

So, if God is not doing anything for His own sake and everything for the sake of others, would He be expecting or needing anything from man or would God just be trying to give the greatest gifts He could give to man?

Are there something God just cannot do: like make another Christ, since Christ was never made but always existed?

Could God place this Godly type Love in a person at his/her creation (an instinctive love) or would an instinctive love be like a robotic love and not like God’s Love?

Could God just force His Love on man against the “will” of man or would that be like a shotgun wedding with God holding the shotgun?

What does man need that he does not have instinctively in order for man to fulfill His Mission?

Man must have a very limited amount of autonomous free will to make at least the one choice to humbly accept or reject God’s Love (forgiveness/mercy/grace/charity).

Man’s objective seems to be to obtain and grow this Godly type Love to fulfill the mission (statement) of Love God and secondly others with all our heart, soul, mind, and energy.

Our “objective” while here on earth is to just accept God’s gift as it was given as pure charity, this will enable us to fulfill our mission.

God is not trying to get you to do something, but is trying to give you something.

The problem is not sin (unforgiven sin is a huge problem), because God will forgive our sins which helps us to Love (…he that is forgiven much will Love much….Luke 7) God hates sin, but does allow it, so we can more easily accept His Love (in the form of forgiveness the easiest way for us to accept His charity). The problem is always our fulfilling our objective.

The easiest way for humans to accept God’s charity (Love) is out of a huge need and that need is the relief from the burden of hurting others in the past (sin). By a free willing acceptance of God’s forgiveness, we accept God’s Love (mercy/grace/charity) and thus we will Love much (a Godly type Love, automatically given) since Jesus has taught us (we also see this in our own lives) “…he that is forgiven much will Love much…” Luke 7: 36-50.

This world is “very good”, but not “perfect” like heaven is perfect and does not have the same purpose as heaven. This messed up world is actually the very best place for willing individuals to fulfill their earthly objective.

Death is not “bad” in and of itself for now, but the way good people go home and the way bad people quit doing bad stuff.

It is truly tragic and unfortunate that Christ had to be tortured, humiliated and murdered in order to help willing humans in their fulfilling of their objective, but God is willing to make huge sacrifices to help willing individuals. It is also very sad other humans who had the opportunity to fulfill their primary earthly objective continued to refuse God’s charity to the point they would never of their own free will accepted God’s charity. These refusers of God Loved are still Loved but will go to their death and destruction as a help to some other humans who have not refused God’s help to the point of never accepting His help.

I do not understand how " those refusers of Gods love are still loved by God" How is it love to burn people forever ? It is loving for God to keep pursuing each person after the mortal body dies and people will see Jesus without the flesh that distores everything. The parable of the lost sheep, Jesus will pursue until he finds and restores all, now that is love.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

What do you mean "burn forever"? Are you thinking that when it talks about people being cast into a furnace of fire (Matt 13:42, 50), everlasting fire (Matt 25:41) and the lake of fire (Rev 20:15) that it's talking about them literally, physically burning in fire? That's not what it's saying. It's figurative text. It seems that maybe you believe in universal salvation only because you can't comprehend God making people literally burn in fire forever, but that's not what it's talking about. They will be separated from God forever because that is what they indicated that they wanted. Their torment will consist of their regret and sorrow over not repenting when they had the chance. They will not be literally burning in fire. God is going to give everyone an eternal destiny based on their choices in this lifetime. He's not going to have anyone spend eternity with Him who indicated that they don't want that.


Are humans robots? No. How would God just programming robots to do what He wanted them to do be for His glory?


I ask again, how would God programming humans as if they were robots to do His will bring glory to God?


Basically forcing people to do what He wants would bring more glory to God? No, not at all. God deserves all the glory for giving all people the opportunity to be saved and to have eternal life. If He forced everyone to believe in Him and worship Him rather than giving them free will and allowing them to choose whether to worship Him or not would take away from His glory.

There is no place of separation from God,Rom 8:38-39 says nothing can separate us from the love of God, not even death.
If we were robots we would not need to go through the last 6000 years of living in a fallen world, God made us to worship him that is what we were created for, but because God wanted the highest form of love, he gave us free will, this whole process, that is still not done, is the best way for God to get what his plan is, to have each person trust him out of love. Why does scripture say God is long suffering? because it will take a long time for Gods plan to come to completion, and we know the end 1 Cor 15:28 That God will be all in all.
Even if God did force us against our will, does not Jesus say he is the Father, what parent has not porced their children to do something against their will, because if they got their will it would destroy them, is not God better than humans?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

They are not literally "burning forever", but their separation from God forever shows that He is a holy God who, while very patient and slow to anger, does not tolerate unrepentant sin forever and that glorifies God as the holy God that He is. If God allowed people to be with Him for eternity despite them repeatedly rejecting Him and rebelling against Him their whole lives, how would that glorify God?

Rom 8:38-39 nothing can separate us from the love of God not even death.
Yes God is holy, but the infinite is not threatened by the finite if it did he would not be God.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

There is no place of separation from God,Rom 8:38-39 says nothing can separate us from the love of God, not even death.

You need to read scripture more carefully. That passage only applies to those who love God, not all people.

Start reading from the following verse up to Romans 8:38-39 and you should see that.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Look at this passage and then try to tell me again that there is no place of separation from God.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

If we were robots we would not need to go through the last 6000 years of living in a fallen world, God made us to worship him that is what we were created for, but because God wanted the highest form of love, he gave us free will, this whole process, that is still not done, is the best way for God to get what his plan is, to have each person trust him out of love.

It's not reasonable to expect every person to choose to worship God. Nowhere does scripture teach such a thing. It repeatedly teaches otherwise. Read Romans 1:18-32. There is no excuse for not worshiping God, yet many people choose not to do so. God doesn't make anyone do so. He punishes those who don't and never will force them to worship Him.

Why does scripture say God is long suffering? because it will take a long time for Gods plan to come to completion, and we know the end 1 Cor 15:28 That God will be all in all.

Again, you are misinterpreting scripture. That verse is in relation only to believers, not all people. God is long suffering, which means He is very patient, but He does not have endless patience. Eventually, His patience will run out and then He will punish those who refused to worship Him.

Even if God did force us against our will, does not Jesus say he is the Father, what parent has not porced their children to do something against their will, because if they got their will it would destroy them, is not God better than humans?

Why do you speak of a hypothetical like this that isn't even possible? God never forces anyone to do anything against their will, so what is the point of even discussing that?

 

[Jeff Saunders]

God giving man free will has nothing to do with man's will being stronger than God's will. God is the One who made that decision to give man free will in the first place, so how could man's will be stronger than God's will in that case? His will was not to create robots, but rather human beings with a spirit, a mind and a conscience with the ability to make their own choices.

1 Tim 2:3-6 its Gods will that none should be lost but for all to come to the knowledge of him. If man can reject Gods will then his will is stronger than Gods will.
When Jesus became human and died, 2 Cor 5:14-20 one died for all then all died in Jesus. Jesus took our infirmity, sin into himself and united all humanity in himself, God is in everyone, in the last days God has poured out his Spirit on all flesh Acts 2:17, so Paul says in Gal 1:15-16 When God had called me by his grace was pleased to reveal his Son in me. that is what happened to Paul he was blinded so that he could see that Jesus was already in him but he just did not know it at that time, he was blind to that fact as most of humanity still are. We did not ask God to be born or what family we would live in, he did as he say fit, same thing when Jesus died he died for all and joined himself to humanity and through his death has bought all of humanity for himself, he is in all humanity but we need to metanioa and see things as God sees them and align ourselves to what he did, that is faith.

 

[Clare73]

If creation is to bring about Gods glory, how does it bring God glory, if he knows that most of his creation he will have to burn forever, but he goes ahead and creates anyway knowing what the outcome will be.

God is both justice and mercy.

It will glorify his justice, which is just as worthy of glory as are love, mercy and all his other attributes.

All the pain and suffering that people go through, wars, famine, slavery, human trafficking, and all the rest of this fallen world, and in the end, a small fraction of creation comes out good in the end, and people say that this if for Gods glory?
Now what if Jesus was really the savior of the cosmos as John 4:42 says and what if God was really reconciling the world to himself not counting mens trespasses against them, 2 Cor 5:19 but the scripture that says where sin abounds mercy abounds even more.Rom 5:20. Now if Gods plan was to have a creation that would love him out of free will and the last 6000 years and till the end, were Gods way of bringing about the result that all his creation would worship him out of free will and in the end God will be all in all 1 Cor 15:28. Sin and death are no more, not just stuck in a place that God has to keep going forever and listen to the screams of his people for all eternity, what if God in the end would make a new heaven and new earth and the old is done and all is new, his whole creation living in him out of free will love, no more sin and death its gone forever.

I ask you how does God losing most of his creation and then having to burn it forever bring glory to God?

It glorifies his justice, while salvation from his justice glorifies his mercy.

Does not the idea that God knew what he was doing, and had a plan, and had all that it would take to accomplish the plan, to bring all his creation into a love with him, forever and sin and death are no more, and God will be all in all.
Does this not bring more glory to God?

Maybe in man's way of thinking.

God doesn't think like we do (Isa 55:8-9).

Time to quit measuing God by man's standards.
We don't measure God, he measures us.

 

[Unqualified]

God is glorified in that He is true to His word. He did what He said He would do. He gives us every chance to repent and turn to him. He promises new life, he threatens those who would have none of it. They basically hate Him. Remember the parable of the king going into a far country to accept a kingdom. They sent him a message, ‘we will not have this man to rule over us’. Then He said bring them here that hate me and slay them before me.

so then they refuse to believe it’s true. Thumbing their nose.

They wanted to disbelieve Jesus and kill Him from the beginning in Matthew book. But He is glorified by those who believe him and love Him. Again he does what he says he will. He treats hi enemies to the death they seek. This brings glory to the Almighty King. You don’t have to go there you choose to go there. He glorifies Himself in this.

In the millenium people will have everything given to them and still some will turn away. God is worthy of praise. He is just and merciful. Those who love Him adore Him for this. He is perfect, nothing wrong with Him . he is surrounded by praise for this.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

1 Tim 2:3-6 its Gods will that none should be lost but for all to come to the knowledge of him. If man can reject Gods will then his will is stronger than Gods will.

You need to differentiate between God's desires that He does not force upon people and His will that no one can thwart.

It was His will to send His Son to the earth to die for our sins and no one could stop that. But, it's His desire that everyone accept His Son while giving everyone the free will choice to either accept or reject Him. Giving man free will to choose does not make man's will stronger than God's will. That makes no sense when you consider it was God's will that determined that man should have free will, not man's.

When Jesus became human and died, 2 Cor 5:14-20 one died for all then all died in Jesus. Jesus took our infirmity, sin into himself and united all humanity in himself, God is in everyone, in the last days God has poured out his Spirit on all flesh Acts 2:17,

You continually attribute verses to all people that clearly only apply to believers instead. You need to read scripture in context and stop taking it too literally when it doesn't call for that. The "all people" of Acts 2:17 including the Jewish BELIEVERS who received His Spirit on the day of Pentecost. He does not pour out His Spirit on unbelievers.

 

[Spiritual Jew]

1 Tim 2:3-6 its Gods will that none should be lost but for all to come to the knowledge of him. If man can reject Gods will then his will is stronger than Gods will.
When Jesus became human and died, 2 Cor 5:14-20 one died for all then all died in Jesus. Jesus took our infirmity, sin into himself and united all humanity in himself, God is in everyone, in the last days God has poured out his Spirit on all flesh Acts 2:17, so Paul says in Gal 1:15-16 When God had called me by his grace was pleased to reveal his Son in me. that is what happened to Paul he was blinded so that he could see that Jesus was already in him but he just did not know it at that time, he was blind to that fact as most of humanity still are. We did not ask God to be born or what family we would live in, he did as he say fit, same thing when Jesus died he died for all and joined himself to humanity and through his death has bought all of humanity for himself, he is in all humanity but we need to metanioa and see things as God sees them and align ourselves to what he did, that is faith.

Show me the scripture which teaches that someone can still repent and still spend eternity as a child of God in His presence after they have died without having repented of their sins? Or show me the scripture which teaches that someone can still repent after being cast into the lake of fire. Why does scripture teach that today is the day and now is the time of salvation (2 Corinthians 6:2) if people can be saved after they die? If universal salvation was true, then there would be no urgency for anyone to be saved today and now, but scripture shows that there is an urgency to people being saved today and now.

 

[Jeff Saunders]

You need to read scripture more carefully. That passage only applies to those who love God, not all people.

Start reading from the following verse up to Romans 8:38-39 and you should see that.

Romans 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Look at this passage and then try to tell me again that there is no place of separation from God.

2 Thessalonians 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;


It's not reasonable to expect every person to choose to worship God. Nowhere does scripture teach such a thing. It repeatedly teaches otherwise. Read Romans 1:18-32. There is no excuse for not worshiping God, yet many people choose not to do so. God doesn't make anyone do so. He punishes those who don't and never will force them to worship Him.


Again, you are misinterpreting scripture. That verse is in relation only to believers, not all people. God is long suffering, which means He is very patient, but He does not have endless patience. Eventually, His patience will run out and then He will punish those who refused to worship Him.


Why do you speak of a hypothetical like this that isn't even possible? God never forces anyone to do anything against their will, so what is the point of even discussing that?

I read scripture through a different lens, because of Jesus there is now no separation between God and man, 2 Cor 5:14-15 Jesus died for all therefore all have died, he died for all so that those living might not live for themselves... Jesus by his death bought all humanity back for God he is in all, but most are blind to the fact and live for themselves.
2 Thess 1:9 olethros aionios is not everlasting destruction, that is a bad translation. olethros does not imply annihilation, but the loss that goes with complete undoing, they lose their inheritance, aionios does not mean eternal but pertaining to the age or of the age, they go to the age of punishment because of the loss, they did not follow God in this age.
I follow the teaching of the early church fathers like Gregory of Nyssa the father of fathers, and others who taught Apokatastasis the renewal of all things, not just a few or small amount. When I read 1 Cor 15:28 and it says God will be all in all, I do not read it as God will be all in a few, Phil 2:10-11 Every knee should bow of those of those in heaven, and those on earth, and those under the earth, and every tongue gladly confess that Jesus is Lord.
These and other verses that tell the same thing is the foundation of how I read scripture, those who believe in "eternal hell" or annihilation have separation as the foundation and read scripture with a different lense.
So from my standpoint it is not I who is misinterpreting scripture wrong, I stand with the early church fathers, and it is those who read it from separation that are misinterpreting it wrong.
You say God never forces anyone to do anything against their will ? Tell that to Paul who was blinded and was nocked to the ground by God, do you not think God violated Pauls will ?