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Do the Ten Commandments still apply under the new covenant today?

BobRyan

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So the new commandment of the New Covenant is love one another as I have loved you (Jn 13:34). . .not only covers all the bases of the Law, but raises "do no harm" to "love as I have loved you,". . .and yet the Law is still the focus.
True - His Law is written on the heart as Jer 31:31-34 states and Heb 8 affirms verbatim - -unchanged in the NT

Jesus' life adds more depth to that statement increasing our understanding of how vast the Covenant is.
I'm sure you'll understand if my NT focus is not on the obsolete Old Covenant (Heb 8:13)
Are you calling the NT text of Heb 8 -- "obsolete" if so - that is not what Hebrews 8 says.
Heb 8:7-12 is a verbatim quote of the NEW Covenant - as the text says..
Heb 8 says Christ IS STILL our High priest in heaven -- it is in the text.
Heb 8 says Christ is STILL in the heavenly sanctuary seated at the right hand of God
Heb 8 says Christ is STILL the mediator of the NEW Covenant as stated in Jer 31 and quoted verbatim in Heb 8.

Details matter.
"do no harm," but on the New Covenant higher standard in the new commandment of Jesus to love as he loves us (Jn 13:34).
Love your neighbor as yourself "Lev 19:18" ALSO affirmed VERBATIM in James 2, Matt 22, Gal 5:14.

Nothing in the NT says that command is "invalid" or no longer as it was. Rather the NT quotes it verbatim.

The point remains
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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What I was addressing in relation to James 2:10 was the claim that it has something to do with deleting a commandment. No, it does not have anything to do with that. Do you agree? Why do you guys not want to just address what was actually being discussed?
If you delete a commandment that only God himself can delete and I assure you he would not since he does not change! the result of such a deletion would be as James declared delete of break one as the same effect you break them all they are a set. People try to find creative ways to change the laws ordained by God, Not a good idea! The Ten Commandments within the covenant come as a set and represent the covenant as I explained before , deleting or breaking one, I am certain has the same effect. Actually I am just thinking that deleting a commandment is probably worse! it would show a profound disrespect to God's perfect law, like if we knew better than Him and I know we do not.
 
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ARBITER01

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It seems in this thread that there are some misconceptions about what Christianity is and how GOD interacts with us now.

Christianity is not a list of rules/laws that we are to memorize and follow like the old testament was, it is a relationship with Jesus. That relationship begins with the new regeneration of our fallen human spirit into His likeness. Our fallen/evil nature is removed when that regeneration happens inside of us by faith.

Additionally, when a newborn Christian then seeks the filling of The Holy Spirit inside and receives Him, they are now lead and taught by The Holy Spirit directly from that point forward. There's no need for phylacteries and other such things to keep GOD's laws fresh before our minds, we are connected to the actual source of righteousness, GOD Himself seated on a throne next to The Father.

Moreover, the commandments of Jesus that we follow under His new law of liberty differ from each person. Each of us that are actually born again and filled with His Spirit has a different ministry/office from Jesus, and because of this, each of us will have different directions/commandments to follow from Jesus associated with that ministry/office.

If people in this thread can't understand this, and they still seek to have a list of laws they need to read/memorize to follow Jesus with, then at best, you have a changed mind, not a changed heart. You're not one with Him.
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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It seems in this thread that there are some misconceptions about what Christianity is and how GOD interacts with us now.

Christianity is not a list of rules/laws that we are to memorize and follow like the old testament was, it is a relationship with Jesus. That relationship begins with the new regeneration of our fallen human spirit into His likeness. Our fallen/evil nature is removed when that regeneration happens inside of us by faith.

Additionally, when a newborn Christian then seeks the filling of The Holy Spirit inside and receives Him, they are now lead and taught by The Holy Spirit directly from that point forward. There's no need for phylacteries and other such things to keep GOD's laws fresh before our minds, we are connected to the actual source of righteousness, GOD Himself seated on a throne next to The Father.

Moreover, the commandments of Jesus that we follow under His new law of liberty differ from each person. Each of us that are actually born again and filled with His Spirit has a different ministry/office from Jesus, and because of this, each of us will have different directions/commandments to follow from Jesus associated with that ministry/office.

If people in this thread can't understand this, and they still seek to have a list of laws they need to read/memorize to follow Jesus with, then at best, you have a changed mind, not a changed heart. You're not one with Him.
You follow the ways of Men with the doctrines of Men. Why not follow what GOD teaches, why not follow Christ. What is Christ's law? an invention of men who want an easy way out and do not want to obey God, as simple as that. Ten commandments is that too hard to follow? Jesus followed the will of God, always have always will. No one can deny that Jesus was teaching these and more, the correct way to follow them not by the letter but by the Holy spirit because we Love God and Jesus.

The Ten commandments are your "law of liberty" they will set you free! They will give you eternal life! Dont miss out, time is short!
 
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pasifika

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You follow the ways of Men with the doctrines of Men. Why not follow what GOD teaches, why not follow Christ. What is Christ's law? an invention of men who want an easy way out and do not want to obey God, as simple as that. Ten commandments is that too hard to follow? Jesus followed the will of God, always have always will. No one can deny that Jesus was teaching these and more, the correct way to follow them not by the letter but by the Holy spirit because we Love God and Jesus.

The Ten commandments are your "law of liberty" they will set you free! They will give you eternal life! Dont miss out, time is short!
where did you get this, the ten commandments is the 'law of liberty" (read James properly).

the 10 commandments is the law of " condemnation" Not of "liberty"
(read Romans).

Law of Christ / Spirit is the Law of liberty.
 
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ARBITER01

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You follow the ways of Men with the doctrines of Men. Why not follow what GOD teaches, why not follow Christ. What is Christ's law? an invention of men who want an easy way out and do not want to obey God, as simple as that. Ten commandments is that too hard to follow? Jesus followed the will of God, always have always will. No one can deny that Jesus was teaching these and more, the correct way to follow them not by the letter but by the Holy spirit because we Love God and Jesus.

The Ten commandments are your "law of liberty" they will set you free! They will give you eternal life! Dont miss out, time is short!

You sound like a good Messianic believer. Congratulations.

I'm a Gentile born again believer for over 30 some years now, and I'm not required to follow the 10 commandments, or any of the Jewish law of Moses according to NT scripture. I'm only required to follow Jesus and the leading and teaching of The Holy Spirit.

I'll be leaving this thread now, laters.
 
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fhansen

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where did you get this, the ten commandments is the 'law of liberty" (read James properly).

the 10 commandments is the law of " condemnation" Not of "liberty"
(read Romans).

Law of Christ / Spirit is the Law of liberty.
But what does that mean? The Spirit is certainly not the Spirit of lawlessness, of sin.
 
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pasifika

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But what does that mean? The Spirit is certainly not the Spirit of lawlessness, of sin.
the Spirit of Christ is certainly Not the Spirit of lawlessness.

the spirit of lawlessness is "sin", and the law is what reveal it.
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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where did you get this, the ten commandments is the 'law of liberty" (read James properly).

the 10 commandments is the law of " condemnation" Not of "liberty"
(read Romans).

Law of Christ / Spirit is the Law of liberty.
I was replying to @ARBITER01 who used it ""His new law of liberty"" It is not from me. Lately i see many people use "law of liberty" or "Christ law" both are invented by men and confuse a lot of people.

Here is a few line from Arbiter01's post as a reply to me;

""Moreover, the commandments of Jesus that we follow under His new law of liberty differ from each person. Each of us that are actually born again and filled with His Spirit has a different ministry/office from Jesus, and because of this, each of us will have different directions/commandments to follow from Jesus associated with that ministry/office.""

But this idea of a “law of liberty” in the way it’s being used here—not referring to James, but as if Jesus introduced a customizable, individual "law"—is not grounded in Scripture. The same goes for “Christ’s law” as a separate system of rules; these phrases or concepts are not found in the teachings of Jesus.

Ask yourself: Did Jesus ever teach something called "a new law of liberty"? No—what He taught was clear, direct, and centered on obedience to the will of God.

Here’s what Jesus actually said
John 8:31–32 – “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

The people He spoke to didn’t understand, so He explained further:


John 8:34 – “Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.”
John 8:36 – “If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

The point Jesus makes is this: It is not the law that enslaves—it is sin. Sin is the problem, and sin is disobedience to God's commandments. That’s why Jesus magnified the Ten Commandments—to show the depth of obedience God desires.

So when Jesus says, “If you continue in my word...”, He’s not introducing a new, personalized “law.” He’s calling people to stay rooted in His teachings, which align with God’s eternal commandments. That’s the truth that sets people free, not invented phrases, but the living Word of God.
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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You sound like a good Messianic believer. Congratulations.

I'm a Gentile born again believer for over 30 some years now, and I'm not required to follow the 10 commandments, or any of the Jewish law of Moses according to NT scripture. I'm only required to follow Jesus and the leading and teaching of The Holy Spirit.

I'll be leaving this thread now, laters.
According to Christ, Yes you are required to follow the Commandments to enter life;

Matthew 19:17

“So He said to him, ‘Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.’”

Luke 18:18-20

And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.

Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.

Revelation 22:14

“Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city.”
 
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Hawkins

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Whatever taught by Jesus are still valid, but no longer enforced as Law. Core commandments are common amongst different covenants. Core commandments are thus shared between the old and the New Covenant. However in the New Covenant commandments are not enforced as Law. They are Christ's commands or Teaching.
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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Jesus did not teach that His commandments were optional in the New Covenant. He called people to follow, obey, and build their lives upon His words. The commandments He gave were not only consistent with the Father's will, but they fulfilled and deepened the meaning of the Law. He said they remain until heaven and earth pass away, and warned that breaking them or teaching others to do so would bring judgment. He made clear that love for Him is shown by obedience, not only belief. His disciples confirmed this after His resurrection, saying that knowing God means keeping His commandments, and that those who don’t obey are deceiving themselves. Therefore, the idea that Jesus’ teachings are only moral guidance without authority is not supported by Scripture. In the New Covenant, the commandments of Jesus are not less than law—they are the living expression of God’s will, written not on stone but on the heart, and they remain binding for all who follow Him.

Jesus clearly said, "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (Matthew 5:17–18). Heaven and earth are still here, so the law is still in place. Jesus also warned, "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:19). He did not treat His teachings as suggestions but as commandments to obey.

When a man asked Him how to receive eternal life, Jesus replied, "If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17). He then listed some of the Ten Commandments, showing they still mattered. He also gave a new commandment: "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you." (John 13:34). But even this was not separate from the Law—it deepened it.

Jesus didn’t separate love from the commandments. He said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments." (John 14:15). And again, "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me." (John 14:21). So, love is proven by obedience, not by agreeing with His teachings but by living them.

After Jesus rose from the dead, He told the apostles to teach everything He had commanded them: "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:20). Not just believe them—but observe them. The apostles followed this. John wrote, "Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments." (1 John 2:3). He added, "He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4). These are strong words showing that Jesus’ teachings are not just noble ideas, but required ways of life.

Peter also said, "We ought to obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29), after being commanded to stop teaching in Jesus’ name. So even under the New Covenant, obedience to God's word was a must, not an option.

In the end, Jesus warned, "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." (Matthew 7:21). Hearing His words is not enough. He continued, "Whoever hears these sayings of Mine and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock." (Matthew 7:24). So His words are not just teachings to admire—they are the foundation of our lives.
 
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Hawkins

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Jesus did not teach that His commandments were optional in the New Covenant. He called people to follow, obey, and build their lives upon His words. The commandments He gave were not only consistent with the Father's will, but they fulfilled and deepened the meaning of the Law. He said they remain until heaven and earth pass away, and warned that breaking them or teaching others to do so would bring judgment. He made clear that love for Him is shown by obedience, not only belief. His disciples confirmed this after His resurrection, saying that knowing God means keeping His commandments, and that those who don’t obey are deceiving themselves. Therefore, the idea that Jesus’ teachings are only moral guidance without authority is not supported by Scripture. In the New Covenant, the commandments of Jesus are not less than law—they are the living expression of God’s will, written not on stone but on the heart, and they remain binding for all who follow Him.

Jesus clearly said, "Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." (Matthew 5:17–18). Heaven and earth are still here, so the law is still in place. Jesus also warned, "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 5:19). He did not treat His teachings as suggestions but as commandments to obey.

When a man asked Him how to receive eternal life, Jesus replied, "If you want to enter into life, keep the commandments." (Matthew 19:17). He then listed some of the Ten Commandments, showing they still mattered. He also gave a new commandment: "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you." (John 13:34). But even this was not separate from the Law—it deepened it.

Jesus didn’t separate love from the commandments. He said, "If you love Me, keep My commandments." (John 14:15). And again, "He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me." (John 14:21). So, love is proven by obedience, not by agreeing with His teachings but by living them.

After Jesus rose from the dead, He told the apostles to teach everything He had commanded them: "teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:20). Not just believe them—but observe them. The apostles followed this. John wrote, "Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments." (1 John 2:3). He added, "He who says, ‘I know Him,’ and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:4). These are strong words showing that Jesus’ teachings are not just noble ideas, but required ways of life.

Peter also said, "We ought to obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29), after being commanded to stop teaching in Jesus’ name. So even under the New Covenant, obedience to God's word was a must, not an option.

In the end, Jesus warned, "Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven." (Matthew 7:21). Hearing His words is not enough. He continued, "Whoever hears these sayings of Mine and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock." (Matthew 7:24). So His words are not just teachings to admire—they are the foundation of our lives.
On the other hand, commandments are not enforced as Law, because when you break a law you are dead, and breaking one law = breaking them all. This simply means you can't rely on keeping Law to be saved. It's never about "optional" though, it's more about you can't be saved by observing Law (you can't beat Satan on this, he will no doubt successfuly tempt you to break Law here and there). You need faith and faith alone (i.e., without the judgment from Law, or else you'll fail).
 
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fhansen

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the Spirit of Christ is certainly Not the Spirit of lawlessness.

the spirit of lawlessness is "sin", and the law is what reveal it.
Alright, so the Spirit still upholds the law, but in a new way now, as per Rom 7:6.
 
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fhansen

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So, love is proven by obedience, not by agreeing with His teachings but by living them.
Yes, love is proven by obedience. Obedience does not produce love while love does produce obedience. When obedience is produced strictly by a sense of obligation, even though the obligation is right, we're still not where where God wants us, where the Spirit is leading us.
 
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fhansen

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So its not some arbitrary love it is keeping God's commandments the way God gave them 1 John 5:2-3.
There's no such thing as arbitrary agape-and that love is what the commandments are based on to begin with.
The problem with the Pharisees as Jesus taught is they replaced God's commandments, again quoting from the Ten Commandment, condemning them for replacing God's law with their own man-made laws and traditions (what felt right)
"what felt right" was not based on love, but on the opposite, on pride and selfishness.
quoting from the Ten Commandments and showing the intent behind the commandments, not to even have thoughts that lead to breaking them because that's where sin starts in the heart. Mat 5:19-30
Yes, in Matt 5 Jesus was quoting the ten commandments and showing us the true way to obey them; it was those commandments that the Pharisess, themselves, were directly breaking on the inside while looking clean on the outside (Matt 23). The only way to authentically obey those comandments is by the Spirit, through Christ, apart from whom we can do nothing. The only way good fruit is produced, IOW, is by virtue of connection to the Vine. That's the starting point of the new covenant-and the main difference between the old and the new. And that's why Paul is excited at the end of Rom 7,
"Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!"

Christ, union with Him, is the only way to overcome the deeds of the flesh that condemn and kill us, with the only one who can deliver us from the slavery of sin unto obedience and righteousness: God, alone justifes, not me alone, by my own efforts. God, alone, can produce in me the love that is characteristic of Himself and His family-and that fulfills the law:
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people."
Jer 31:33

So Paul was speaking of a new way of observing the moral law, the ten commandments, and not just about circumcision (post #102). This is highlighted in Rom 7 where he identifies the ten commandments and then emphasizes a whole new way of observing them-and that's what the new righteousness spoken of in Phil 3:9 and Rom 3, 5, 6, and 8, for example, is all about:
"But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet." Rom 7:6-7

I'm just saying we must be on gaurd to not return to the Letter, which is very easy to do. The new covenant is about the heart-about change in it, in us, and a change that's meant to take root and grow. Meanwhile we also don't want to make the mistake of thinking, as many novel theologies do, that the new covenant represents some sort of reprieve from the obligation for man to be law-abiding, which it does NOT, as you know. It's actually the only true means of becoming law-abiding, with man now walking by the Spirit, under grace, now connected to the life-giving Vine in a union bound by love.
 
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NewLifeInChristJesus

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You don't seem to understand what happens when we confess and repent, when we are truly sorry for sinning and breaking God's law.
I am very familiar with God's correction. Whenever one of His children goes astray, He corrects them. While they are going through the chastening, the chastening does not bring a bunch of joy, but is painful and can be very painful. However, after the chastening has changed the child's behavior, he is again at peace with God and enjoys his Father-child relationship with God. (Heb 12:5-11)

Is there a place in all this for confession, repentance, and sorrow for sinning? Sure. God's correction of His children is like when an earthly father sees a rebellious child and spanks them until they stop their rebellion. He tells them plainly the whipping will continue until they change their mind. It hurts him more than it hurts his child, but he knows he can't stop and leave the rebellion uncorrected. When the child finally changes his mind, the father stops the whipping. At that point, the rebellion is in the past and the correction ends.
Our slate is wiped clean.
I do appreciate the fact that your theology includes the forgiveness of sins. But I suspect that your theology is that His forgivenes is doled out piecemeal upon a person's confession, repentance, and true sorrow for sinning. The consequence of this kind of theology is that a person who was once forgiven, re-created in the image of God, and made a child of God -- that person, upon sinning again, is not forgiven, is not re-created in the image of God, and is not a child of God -- until he confesses, repents, and is truly sorry for sinning. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
I also beleive as stated more than once that through the power of Jesus we can overcome sin, its a promise of Scripture.
I'm sorry, but I see no evidence that any person on earth is living a sinlessly perfect life. Like I said before, if you are looking for sinless perfection in this life, the only place you will find it is in the spirit of a redeemed child of God. The new man "was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness" (Eph 4:24). This is where we find complete separation from sin. And when we die, we will receive spiritual bodies that complement our redeemed spirits, and glory hallelujah, we will finally be free of this body of death.
 
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Clare73

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True - His Law is written on the heart as Jer 31:31-34 states and Heb 8 affirms verbatim - -unchanged in the NT
Jesus' life adds more depth to that statement increasing our understanding of how vast the Covenant is.
Are you calling the NT text of Heb 8 -- "obsolete" if so - that is not what Hebrews 8 says.
Heb 8:7-12 is a verbatim quote of the NEW Covenant - as the text says..
Heb 8 says Christ IS STILL our High priest in heaven -- it is in the text.
Heb 8 says Christ is STILL in the heavenly sanctuary seated at the right hand of God
Heb 8 says Christ is STILL the mediator of the NEW Covenant as stated in Jer 31 and quoted verbatim in Heb 8
That's a nice stretch. . .explains a lot.
See Rom 13:9 which explains Rom 13:10
And you reversed the order. . .
 
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JesusFollowerForever

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On the other hand, commandments are not enforced as Law, because when you break a law you are dead, and breaking one law = breaking them all. This simply means you can't rely on keeping Law to be saved. It's never about "optional" though, it's more about you can't be saved by observing Law (you can't beat Satan on this, he will no doubt successfuly tempt you to break Law here and there). You need faith and faith alone (i.e., without the judgment from Law, or else you'll fail).

While faith is essential (as taught by Christ), the Law is not abolished, optional, or irrelevant. God's Commandments remain Holy, just, and good. Jesus Himself affirmed their value and continuity. Salvation is not earned by the Law, but obedience remains a sign of genuine faith and love for God. Rejecting God's Commandments on the grounds that one cannot perfectly keep them is not supported by Scripture—God expects effort, repentance, and a transformed heart.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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And you reversed the order. . .
Rom 13:9 For the commandments, “You shall not commit adultery,” “You shall not murder,” “You shall not steal,” [b]“You shall not bear false witness,” “You shall not covet,” and if there is any other commandment, are all summed up in this saying, namely, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself.” 10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law.

Romans 13:9 explains what it means to love thy neighbor as thyself and do no harm to our neighbor. The summary doesn't delete the details no matter how inconvenient they might be to some. Deleting even the least of these commandments Mat 5:19 would no longer be love to God or love to neighbor 1 John 5:2-3

Its like saying the constitution is summed up by justice, but because one says the word justice it deletes all of the amendments, that make up the constitution, its a really bad argument. Just like all of the Ten Commandments don't disappear by love, its the fulfillment of the law because one is keeping them by love Exo 20:6 John 14:15 John 15:10 1 John 5:3 . Not keeping them is not love 1 John 5:3 John 14:15 John 15:10 Exo 20:6 and does harm to God, man and self as it separates man from God Isa 59:2 Rev 22:14-15 Mat 7:23
 
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