6,000 Years?

[Amo2]

The waters do not need to be above the earth or below the heavens to exist. So I'm not sure what you mean. And I'll repeat, Genesis describes the creation of things that are already there (giving form to that which was formless and filling that which was empty).

If I said, "in the beginning when I created a boat, the boat was broken and empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep, and a bird flew over the waters, then I said "someone pass me a hammer"".

And in 6 hours I created the boat, I put my passengers in it (Adam and Eve) and I said, that's very good. It now has form and it's filled with people.

You wouldn't turn and say "well how can waters be there if there is no boat? If there is no place for the waters to exist, then one would have to conclude that the waters had to have been created after the boat"

That doesn't make any sense. The waters are above the heavens and below the earth. They are of a further extent than these spaces.

To him who spread out the earth above the waters, for his loyal love endures forever.
Psalms 136:6

Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens. Let them praise the name of Yahweh, because he commanded and they were created. And he put them in place forever and ever, by a decree he gave that will not pass away.
Psalms 148:4‭-‬6

That's why Genesis even says,
Genesis 1:7-8 ESV
[7] And God made the expanse and separated the waters that were under the expanse from the waters that were above the expanse. And it was so. [8] And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day.

The heavens themselves are in the midst of the waters. The waters are not in the midst of the heavens.

Genesis 1:9 ESV
[9] And God said, “Let the waters under the heavens be gathered together into one place, and let the dry land appear.” And it was so.

The waters below the heavens were gathered into one place, revealing the earth in the midst of the waters. The primordial mount, almost like an island.

Genesis 1:10 NASB1995
[10] God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.

And the waters that were gathered into 1 place, were called "seas". That is, seas that surround the primordial mound.

So you see, the heavens and the earth are both in the midst of the waters. The waters are not in the midst of the heavens and the earth (at least not in totality).

And all this is of course subject to debate because the Bible shifts cosmological positions depending on what book of the Bible you're in. Like others are saying, it's not something to think about scientifically. It's more phenomenological and literary.

According to holy scripture, humanity is presently placed within a box of reality, which has been separated in large part from a great deal of that which actually exists. Not just far out in space, but all around us right now. Dimensions we simply are not privy to.

Adam and Eve could be in the literal presence of God, and communicate with Him face to face as it were. This all changed after the fall, and the world and our condition drastically changed again after the flood. We have no idea what the world was really like before the fall and the flood. Or how it existed in relation to the many dimensions which no doubt exist outside of our comprehension at present.

There are living beings called angels, fallen and un-fallen, which are all around us at all times. They exist within a dimension or dimensions we cannot see or sense, though our dimensions are obviously included within their own. We cannot possibly make correct or fully informed “scientific” observations and or speculations concerning such, in our very limited atmosphere of existence. We speculate upon that which we can observe, but there is so much more than that which we can presently observe, existing in relation to us. Therefore have our “sciences” so called, been proved wrong so many times over and again. This is not even to address the issues of misplaced faith in theories nowhere near in touch with realities, such as God and His creations.

Genesis was of course written by Moses generations after the fall and flood. Describing creation this side of both, in terms relative and understandable to us in the box within which we now exist. Our best understandings and or supposed “Scientific” observations, are trapped as we are within this box. We simply do not have the big or full picture of all that really is, even right around us right now. Correspondingly then, our speculations about what we observe, are based upon extremely limited access to overall reality. Since we are only a small part of it, incapable of observing or knowing about the rest.

Perhaps before the fall, we may have even seen and understood exactly what that described as waters by Moses from within our presently observed reality, really were or represented. Apart from special revelation from God now though, our speculations are just that. I’m not sure though, how this relates to creation, evolution, and or 6000 years or not. As though God would be effected concerning a time table of creation regarding that which we cannot presently observe. Concerning a past, which we cannot presently observe either. All conclusions of or about which therefore, are in fact largely faith based, being built upon unavoidable presumptions concerning the unknown. Some choosing the word of God as simply stated, others not so much, and many others rejecting it altogether in favor of their own theories. That is to say, the imaginations of fallen humanity. Nevertheless -

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; 19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

In the past they made idols and worshipped the creature instead of the Creator. Some still do this to this day. A great many more though, worship the vain “scientific” imaginations of those who attribute our existence to deep time scenarios of development from supposed simple forms of life, unto creeping things, unto four footed beasts, unto corruptible man. Instead of the image of God holy scripture declares we were made in. Such deep time developments involving the death and destruction of countless life forms before us, rather than death and destruction being the result of sin, as God’s word has testified. The very foundations of the gospel itself being brought into question by the far reaching implications of these vain imaginings of fallen humanity. So be it, as the word of God has testified.

2Pe 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour: 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. 5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: 6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: 7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. 8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. 11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, 12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? 13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

 

[Amo2]

No they're not. They're just the results of scientists doing their jobs.

Do you really think scientists are up to something? Do you think we go to work every day plotting and scheming?

It looks like you do think that.

Do you actually know any scientists who work on those things?

No, I think scientists like all of us, base their pursuits upon their chosen beliefs or world views. Aligning their speculations regarding that which they observe, with those faiths and or world views. I don't just think that they do, I observe that they do. More than just a few of them stating these exact intentions. Others simply going where their predetermined world views lead them. Some simply not interested in that which contradicts or brings their views into question. Others intentionally ignoring or downplaying them. There are scientists who have stated it as their exact intention to leave God completely out of the scenario.

 

[Amo2]

If you are too lazy to formulate your point well, I am too lazy to read it and to react to it.

If you are too lazy to formulate your point well, I am too lazy to read it and to react to it.

If you are unable to take in and comprehend but one sentence statements, then it would be best that we do not discuss or debate our views. As is obvious, I am a Young Earth Creationist, and you are not. My defense of my faith, of which I freely admit, entails many different aspects and issues regarding differences of opinion and or interpretation of observable scientific physical evidence. As I believe, are extrapolated upon in different ways by those seeking to establish different faiths.

Maybe I am missing something here, a disconnect concerning what you mean by reducing my points to one sentence. It is not possible to address many issues in one sentence. Unless that one sentence be rather long indeed. Please do expound upon your meaning.

 

[trophy33]

Maybe I am missing something here, a disconnect concerning what you mean by reducing my points to one sentence. It is not possible to address many issues in one sentence. Unless that one sentence be rather long indeed. Please do expound upon your meaning.

I do not want you to address many issues in one sentence or in one post. I want you to address one issue, to make one point, one argument per post.

Or else it is not effective. If I do not agree with the first sentence of yours, the A4 of following verses and texts and thoughts is useless. And reacting to sentence after sentence would be exhausting.

If you feel a need to be verbose, one good ethical way how to do it is from ethical journalism - formulating a good summary in the beginning and providing details after that, for those interested. Those who are not (based on the summary) do not need to read the rest of the article to find out what it is about.

Asking you to say it in one sentence was a hypoerbole, to express that your posts are too verbose.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not described in Genesis. But yes, God was doing things before Genesis 1:1, though they need not even be described as "work". God has eternity past to do things. He is not limited strictly to what Genesis describes.

Ok but when Genesis 2:3 says “all his work” it’s referring to His work in creation not other types of work.

 

[Job 33:6]

Ok but when Genesis 2:3 says “all his work” it’s referring to His work in creation not other types of work.

It's referring to His work over the 6 days of Genesis 1. Which are not ex nihilo activities.

That's why Genesis 2:1 says:
Genesis 2:1 NASB1995
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts.

It's saying, God rested after creating the heavens and the earth (days 1-3) and all their hosts (days 4-6).

Just read it:

God creates Heaven:
Genesis 1:6-10 NASB1995
[6] Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” [7] God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. [8] God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

God creates earth:
[9] Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. [10] God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.

When God is creating in 6 days, you can just read it and see that it's not ex nihilo. He separates the waters from waters to create the expanse, heaven. Then he gathers the waters below to reveal dry land, earth.

God created in 6 days. God did not create in 1:1 and then again a second time over 6 days.

 

[BNR32FAN]

It's referring to His work over the 6 days of Genesis 1. Which are not ex nihilo activities.

That's why Genesis 2:1 says:
Genesis 2:1 NASB1995
[1] Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts.

It's saying, God rested after creating the heavens and the earth (days 1-3) and all their hosts (days 4-6).

Just read it:

God creates Heaven:
Genesis 1:6-10 NASB1995
[6] Then God said, “Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.” [7] God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. [8] God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day.

God creates earth:
[9] Then God said, “Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear”; and it was so. [10] God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good.

When God is creating in 6 days, you can just read it and see that it's not ex nihilo. He separates the waters from waters to create the expanse, heaven. Then he gathers the waters below to reveal dry land, earth.

God created in 6 days. God did not create in 1:1 and then again a second time over 6 days.

It says ALL HIS WORK WHICH HE CREATED AND MADE. Every atom and every molecule were created and John 1 tells us that everything that was created was created thru Christ and nothing that was created was created apart from Him.

 

[Neostarwcc]

A lot of the reformed community believe the earth is 6,000 years old because scripture says it is. Strong biblical evidence for a 6,000 year old earth is Matthews complete account for human history from Adam to Jesus. It doesn't give a genealogy of billions of years of people it gives a decently long list of people that existed from Adam to Christ. It doesn't give a 3,000 long page list of a genealogy of people that have existed over billions of years.

The Jewish Calendar is also very strong evidence for an approximate 6k year old earth. The Jews have been documenting history since Moses told them when Adam and Eve lived if you believe in what Moses told the Jews than you have to believe in a 6,000 year old Earth because Moses was the one who started the Jewish Calendar.

Also the Book of Genesis and the statements of Moses is also very strong evidence for a Young Earth. Genesis 1 says that the world was created in 6 literal 24 hour days in the original Hebrew (You can't dance around it. That's what the original Hebrew says) and even when Moses himself talked about creation in the book of exodus he says for in 6 24 hour days in the hebrew God created the world. Thats very strong evidence right there if you're a bible believer and take the bible seriously.


Even scientific fields like genetics and radiocarbon dating (when interpreted without evolutionary assumptions) align more with a young earth timeline. If you believe the Bible as plainly written or at least claim you do, you HAVE to believe in a young earth because a young earth is just plastered all over scripture. Both old testament and new.

 

[Job 33:6]

A lot of the reformed community believe the earth is 6,000 years old because scripture says it is. Strong biblical evidence for a 6,000 year old earth is Matthews complete account for human history from Adam to Jesus. It doesn't give a genealogy of billions of years of people it gives a decently long list of people that existed from Adam to Christ. It doesn't give a 3,000 long page list of a genealogy of people that have existed over billions of years.

The Jewish Calendar is also very strong evidence for an approximate 6k year old earth. The Jews have been documenting history since Moses told them when Adam and Eve lived if you believe in what Moses told the Jews than you have to believe in a 6,000 year old Earth because Moses was the one who started the Jewish Calendar.

Also the Book of Genesis and the statements of Moses is also very strong evidence for a Young Earth. Genesis 1 says that the world was created in 6 literal 24 hour days in the original Hebrew (You can't dance around it. That's what the original Hebrew says) and even when Moses himself talked about creation in the book of exodus he says for in 6 24 hour days in the hebrew God created the world. Thats very strong evidence right there if you're a bible believer and take the bible seriously.


Even scientific fields like genetics and radiocarbon dating (when interpreted without evolutionary assumptions) align more with a young earth timeline. If you believe the Bible as plainly written or at least claim you do, you HAVE to believe in a young earth because a young earth is just plastered all over scripture. Both old testament and new.

No, the Bible never says that the earth is 6,000 years old.

Genesis 1:1-3 CEB
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth— [2] the earth was without shape or form, it was dark over the deep sea, and God’s wind swept over the waters— [3] God said, “Let there be light.” And so light appeared.

The Bible never says how long the earth was without shape or form before God began to create it.

 

[Neostarwcc]

No, the Bible never says that the earth is 6,000 years old.

Genesis 1:1-3 CEB
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth— [2] the earth was without shape or form, it was dark over the deep sea, and God’s wind swept over the waters— [3] God said, “Let there be light.” And so light appeared.

The Bible never says how long the earth was without shape or form before God began to create it.

Did you even read what I said? It does. You ignored the next verses in genesis 1 that I quoted that say plain in black and white in the original Hebrew that the world was made in six "yom" (a 24 hour day) which contradicts the evolutionary account of the world being made over billions of years. Also dont forget, Jesus himself treated the book of Genesis as if it were actual history that really happened. There's Matthews genealogical account which states approximately 4,000 years of genealogical history from Adam to Jesus. There's also the flood in genesis 6-9 that the Jewish Calandar gives us exact dates of when these events happened and a full year timeline. A global flood would completely reset the geological features of the earth not gradual erosion over billions of years.

The Bible doesn't explicitly say the world is 6,000 years old but it does give a list of events that happened in history and describe when in history they happened that can be figured out which not only the Jewish people did figure out but they have also been told by Moses and what he was told by God before the Jewish people even existed.


*edit*

Oh and something I just thought of but isn't really evidence for 6,000 years in the Bible but evidence for 6,000 years in itself. If death before sin didn't happen how can the world be over 6,000 years old? I'll explain if Adam and Eve committed the first sin how can evolution over billions of years be true? Because the bible says that sin started death and death was not a natural occurrence that just happened to start when life began.

 

[trophy33]

A lot of the reformed community believe the earth is 6,000 years old because scripture says it is. Strong biblical evidence for a 6,000 year old earth is Matthews complete account for human history from Adam to Jesus. It doesn't give a genealogy of billions of years of people it gives a decently long list of people that existed from Adam to Christ. It doesn't give a 3,000 long page list of a genealogy of people that have existed over billions of years.

The Jewish Calendar is also very strong evidence for an approximate 6k year old earth. The Jews have been documenting history since Moses told them when Adam and Eve lived if you believe in what Moses told the Jews than you have to believe in a 6,000 year old Earth because Moses was the one who started the Jewish Calendar.

Also the Book of Genesis and the statements of Moses is also very strong evidence for a Young Earth. Genesis 1 says that the world was created in 6 literal 24 hour days in the original Hebrew (You can't dance around it. That's what the original Hebrew says) and even when Moses himself talked about creation in the book of exodus he says for in 6 24 hour days in the hebrew God created the world. Thats very strong evidence right there if you're a bible believer and take the bible seriously.


Even scientific fields like genetics and radiocarbon dating (when interpreted without evolutionary assumptions) align more with a young earth timeline. If you believe the Bible as plainly written or at least claim you do, you HAVE to believe in a young earth because a young earth is just plastered all over scripture. Both old testament and new.

Do you believe the Bible in its flat earth cosmology, stars being just lights for our seasons, the firmament, the dragons in the seas etc.?

If not, why not? Because it was scientifically disproved?

 

[Neostarwcc]

Do you believe the Bible in its flat earth cosmology, stars being just lights for our seasons, the firmament, the dragons in the seas etc.?

If not, why not? Because it was scientifically disproved?

Umm where does the Bible say the earth is flat? Last I heard it said the earth was round BEFORE science discovered it. (Isaiah 40:22)

If by dragons in the seas you mean the book of revelation the book of revelation is clearly not meant to be taken literally. Some parts of the Bible were messages from God that were meant to be written down and interpreted symbolically but whenever the Bible says thus says the Lord (God can't lie) or whenever the Bible gives an actual historical account of something you better believe I believe it because the OT is chuck full of Jewish history that is actually proven to have actually happened (King Cyrus's conquering of Babylon and the Jewish people getting their freedom in 539 BC for example).

 

[trophy33]

Umm where does the Bible say the earth is flat?

Basically everywhere, including Genesis 1. The firmament, waters above the firmament and stars, sun and moon placed into the firmament. This firmament has windows and doors for rain and is supported by the highest mountains in the ends of the world. A tower able to reach the heavens. Angels using ladders to get to heavens. This is biblical worldview.

It is all incompatible with modern discoveries and the universe as we know it.

If by dragons in the seas you mean the book of revelation the book of revelation

Of course not. Leviathan, Behemoth. Why did God have to kill Leviathan during the creation of the world? And why is it prophecised that He will kill another Leviathan in the seas? Why were the people afraid that Leviathan will swallow the sun, as is mentioned in the book of Job? Do you know anything about these things?

 

[Neostarwcc]

Basically everywhere, including Genesis 1. The firmament, waters above the firmament and stars, sun and moon placed into the firmament. This firmament has windows and doors for rain and is supported by the highest mountains in the ends of the world. A tower able to reach the heavens. Angels using ladders to get to heavens. This is biblical worldview.

It is all incompatible with modern discoveries and the universe as we know it.


Of course not. Leviathan, Behemoth. Why did God had to kill Leviathan during the creation of the world? And why is it prophecised that He will kill another Leviathan in the seas. Why were the people afraid that Leviathan will swallow the sun, as is mentioned in the book of Job? Do you know?

"First of all, let’s clear this up: the Bible does NOT teach a flat earth. That idea comes from modern internet conspiracy theories and fringe interpretations—not historic Jewish or Christian theology.


Isaiah 40:22 clearly says, "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth." The Hebrew word there is "chug", which denotes something round—not flat. Long before science 'discovered' the earth was round, Scripture already described it that way.


As for Genesis 1, the text says 'God separated the waters from the waters'—not that there’s some solid dome holding back space oceans. That phrase is Hebrew cosmological language describing God bringing order out of chaos not offering a science textbook. It doesn’t contradict modern discovery it describes reality in a prescientific worldview that still affirms God's authorship over creation.


Also, the Tower of Babel narrative says nothing about a flat earth it says people tried to build "a tower to heaven", which is a statement of arrogance and rebellion, not geography. Same with Jacob's ladder it’s a vision, not an engineering plan.


Regarding Leviathan: Job 41, Psalm 104:26, and Isaiah 27:1 all use Leviathan as a poetic symbol of chaos, evil, and judgement. Ancient peoples used symbolic imagery all the time (just like modern literature does). Like I said some parts of the bible are to be taken symbolically. The fact that God can use mythic language to make theological points doesn't mean the Bible teaches literal sea monsters eating the sun. Just like there's not a literal harlot of Babylon or a literal beast of revelation with six horns and whatever else the book of revelation says describes the beast of revelation. They're symbolic poetry.


So if you're going to critique the Bible, at least engage with what it actually says, not what Reddit memes and pop-atheist TikToks claim it says.

---

 

[trophy33]

"First of all, let’s clear this up: the Bible does NOT teach a flat earth. That idea comes from modern internet conspiracy theories and fringe interpretations—not historic Jewish or Christian theology.

Nonsense. The flat earth cosmology was the standard cosmology of the iron age and bible works with it, together with various other Mesopotamian mythological concepts. This is no "internet conspiracy theory", but standard, mainstream academic knowledge.

Biblical cosmology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The fact that God can use mythic language to make theological points doesn't mean the Bible teaches literal sea monsters eating the sun.

Ancient Hebrews, not God. But I am glad we agree that bible uses mythological language to describe the world, therefore we do not need to read Genesis 1, Genesis 2, the flood, giants, the tower of Babel, sea dragons, genealogies and other places literally.

 

[BNR32FAN]

A lot of the reformed community believe the earth is 6,000 years old because scripture says it is. Strong biblical evidence for a 6,000 year old earth is Matthews complete account for human history from Adam to Jesus. It doesn't give a genealogy of billions of years of people it gives a decently long list of people that existed from Adam to Christ. It doesn't give a 3,000 long page list of a genealogy of people that have existed over billions of years.

The Jewish Calendar is also very strong evidence for an approximate 6k year old earth. The Jews have been documenting history since Moses told them when Adam and Eve lived if you believe in what Moses told the Jews than you have to believe in a 6,000 year old Earth because Moses was the one who started the Jewish Calendar.

Also the Book of Genesis and the statements of Moses is also very strong evidence for a Young Earth. Genesis 1 says that the world was created in 6 literal 24 hour days in the original Hebrew (You can't dance around it. That's what the original Hebrew says) and even when Moses himself talked about creation in the book of exodus he says for in 6 24 hour days in the hebrew God created the world. Thats very strong evidence right there if you're a bible believer and take the bible seriously.


Even scientific fields like genetics and radiocarbon dating (when interpreted without evolutionary assumptions) align more with a young earth timeline. If you believe the Bible as plainly written or at least claim you do, you HAVE to believe in a young earth because a young earth is just plastered all over scripture. Both old testament and new.

Matthew doesn’t give a genealogy from Adam to Jesus. It gives a genealogy from Abraham to Jesus. The genealogy from Adam to Abraham are found in Genesis 5 and Genesis 11.

 

[BNR32FAN]

"First of all, let’s clear this up: the Bible does NOT teach a flat earth. That idea comes from modern internet conspiracy theories and fringe interpretations—not historic Jewish or Christian theology.


Isaiah 40:22 clearly says, "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth." The Hebrew word there is "chug", which denotes something round—not flat. Long before science 'discovered' the earth was round, Scripture already described it that way.


As for Genesis 1, the text says 'God separated the waters from the waters'—not that there’s some solid dome holding back space oceans. That phrase is Hebrew cosmological language describing God bringing order out of chaos not offering a science textbook. It doesn’t contradict modern discovery it describes reality in a prescientific worldview that still affirms God's authorship over creation.


Also, the Tower of Babel narrative says nothing about a flat earth it says people tried to build "a tower to heaven", which is a statement of arrogance and rebellion, not geography. Same with Jacob's ladder it’s a vision, not an engineering plan.


Regarding Leviathan: Job 41, Psalm 104:26, and Isaiah 27:1 all use Leviathan as a poetic symbol of chaos, evil, and judgement. Ancient peoples used symbolic imagery all the time (just like modern literature does). Like I said some parts of the bible are to be taken symbolically. The fact that God can use mythic language to make theological points doesn't mean the Bible teaches literal sea monsters eating the sun. Just like there's not a literal harlot of Babylon or a literal beast of revelation with six horns and whatever else the book of revelation says describes the beast of revelation. They're symbolic poetry.


So if you're going to critique the Bible, at least engage with what it actually says, not what Reddit memes and pop-atheist TikToks claim it says.

---

I would also point out that Raquiq (often translated to “firmament” is also often translated to expanse which could be a reference to the expanse of space. This makes perfect sense for those who believe the Bible, but for those who don’t believe it, they prefer to ignore this translation because they prefer translations that don’t make any sense rather than the ones that do actually make sense.

 

[BNR32FAN]

"First of all, let’s clear this up: the Bible does NOT teach a flat earth. That idea comes from modern internet conspiracy theories and fringe interpretations—not historic Jewish or Christian theology.


Isaiah 40:22 clearly says, "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth." The Hebrew word there is "chug", which denotes something round—not flat. Long before science 'discovered' the earth was round, Scripture already described it that way.


As for Genesis 1, the text says 'God separated the waters from the waters'—not that there’s some solid dome holding back space oceans. That phrase is Hebrew cosmological language describing God bringing order out of chaos not offering a science textbook. It doesn’t contradict modern discovery it describes reality in a prescientific worldview that still affirms God's authorship over creation.


Also, the Tower of Babel narrative says nothing about a flat earth it says people tried to build "a tower to heaven", which is a statement of arrogance and rebellion, not geography. Same with Jacob's ladder it’s a vision, not an engineering plan.


Regarding Leviathan: Job 41, Psalm 104:26, and Isaiah 27:1 all use Leviathan as a poetic symbol of chaos, evil, and judgement. Ancient peoples used symbolic imagery all the time (just like modern literature does). Like I said some parts of the bible are to be taken symbolically. The fact that God can use mythic language to make theological points doesn't mean the Bible teaches literal sea monsters eating the sun. Just like there's not a literal harlot of Babylon or a literal beast of revelation with six horns and whatever else the book of revelation says describes the beast of revelation. They're symbolic poetry.


So if you're going to critique the Bible, at least engage with what it actually says, not what Reddit memes and pop-atheist TikToks claim it says.

---

And as far as Leviathan goes we’ve actually found fossils that support the existence of such creatures.

 

[Job 33:6]

Did you even read what I said? It does. You ignored the next verses in genesis 1 that I quoted that say plain in black and white in the original Hebrew that the world was made in six "yom" (a 24 hour day) which contradicts the evolutionary account of the world being made over billions of years. Also dont forget, Jesus himself treated the book of Genesis as if it were actual history that really happened. There's Matthews genealogical account which states approximately 4,000 years of genealogical history from Adam to Jesus. There's also the flood in genesis 6-9 that the Jewish Calandar gives us exact dates of when these events happened and a full year timeline. A global flood would completely reset the geological features of the earth not gradual erosion over billions of years.

The Bible doesn't explicitly say the world is 6,000 years old but it does give a list of events that happened in history and describe when in history they happened that can be figured out which not only the Jewish people did figure out but they have also been told by Moses and what he was told by God before the Jewish people even existed.


*edit*

Oh and something I just thought of but isn't really evidence for 6,000 years in the Bible but evidence for 6,000 years in itself. If death before sin didn't happen how can the world be over 6,000 years old? I'll explain if Adam and Eve committed the first sin how can evolution over billions of years be true? Because the bible says that sin started death and death was not a natural occurrence that just happened to start when life began.

Did you miss what I said? That the Bible doesn't say how long the earth was formless and empty before the 6-24 hour days? Go back and read again please.

Genesis 1:1-3 CEB
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth— [2] the earth was without shape or form, it was dark over the deep sea, and God’s wind swept over the waters— [3] God said, “Let there be light.” And so light appeared.

The Bible doesn't say how long the earth was without shape or form before God began to create in 6 days.

 

[BNR32FAN]

"First of all, let’s clear this up: the Bible does NOT teach a flat earth. That idea comes from modern internet conspiracy theories and fringe interpretations—not historic Jewish or Christian theology.


Isaiah 40:22 clearly says, "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth." The Hebrew word there is "chug", which denotes something round—not flat. Long before science 'discovered' the earth was round, Scripture already described it that way.


As for Genesis 1, the text says 'God separated the waters from the waters'—not that there’s some solid dome holding back space oceans. That phrase is Hebrew cosmological language describing God bringing order out of chaos not offering a science textbook. It doesn’t contradict modern discovery it describes reality in a prescientific worldview that still affirms God's authorship over creation.


Also, the Tower of Babel narrative says nothing about a flat earth it says people tried to build "a tower to heaven", which is a statement of arrogance and rebellion, not geography. Same with Jacob's ladder it’s a vision, not an engineering plan.


Regarding Leviathan: Job 41, Psalm 104:26, and Isaiah 27:1 all use Leviathan as a poetic symbol of chaos, evil, and judgement. Ancient peoples used symbolic imagery all the time (just like modern literature does). Like I said some parts of the bible are to be taken symbolically. The fact that God can use mythic language to make theological points doesn't mean the Bible teaches literal sea monsters eating the sun. Just like there's not a literal harlot of Babylon or a literal beast of revelation with six horns and whatever else the book of revelation says describes the beast of revelation. They're symbolic poetry.


So if you're going to critique the Bible, at least engage with what it actually says, not what Reddit memes and pop-atheist TikToks claim it says.

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Yeah it’s one thing to quote a few verses written allegorically but when you have an actual number of years given from Adam to Abraham that’s obviously not intended to be taken allegorically.