6,000 Years?

[BNR32FAN]

Did you miss what I said? That the Bible doesn't say how long the earth was formless and empty before the 6-24 hour days? Go back and read again please.

Genesis 1:1-3 CEB
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth— [2] the earth was without shape or form, it was dark over the deep sea, and God’s wind swept over the waters— [3] God said, “Let there be light.” And so light appeared.

The Bible doesn't say how long the earth was without shape or form before God began to create in 6 days.

But Genesis 2:1-4 says that He rested from ALL HIS WORK WHICH HE CREATED AND MADE on the 7th day. And we also have passages that refer to a time before the foundation of the earth which means it didn’t just always exist which means at some point it must’ve been created and we have John 1 telling us that everything was created thru Christ. So when you put all that information together you get God creating the earth in 6 days.

 

[Job 33:6]

But Genesis 2:1-4 says that He rested from ALL HIS WORK WHICH HE CREATED AND MADE on the 7th day. And we also have passages that refer to a time before the foundation of the earth which means it didn’t just always exist which means at some point it must’ve been created and we have John 1 telling us that everything was created thru Christ. So when you put all that information together you get God creating the earth in 6 days.

In Genesis, the work that God did of course is in 6 days. It's not talking about before the 6 days or before God began to create the heavens and the earth. And I don't disagree that at some point it must have been created ex nihilo. But that some point is not in Genesis. All we have to do is read Genesis and we can see the heavens and the earth being created ex materia, such as the waters being separated from waters and the waters being gathered to reveal the earth.

 

[BNR32FAN]

In Genesis, the work that God did of course is in 6 days. It's not talking about before the 6 days or before God began to create the heavens and the earth. And I don't disagree that at some point it must have been created ex nihilo. But that some point is not in Genesis. All we have to do is read Genesis and we can see the heavens and the earth being created ex materia, such as the waters being separated from waters and the waters being gathered to reveal the earth.

But what you’re saying is that He didn’t rest on the 7th day from ALL HIS WORK THAT HE CREATED AND MADE. You’re saying that He created before the first day. I really don’t see the point in trying to figure out a way to justify the Bible with science, when you still have the 6000 years from Adam til today. And even if you have God creating matter exnohilo that still contradicts science. It’s a futile attempt to interpret the Bible to coincide with science because it still defies what science teaches us because it’s not intended to coincide with the natural scientific laws. It’s a miracle, a miraculous event which by definition is specifically intended to defy the natural laws of science. So what’s the point of going out of the way to interpret the Bible to coincide with the predicted age of the earth?

 

[Job 33:6]

But what you’re saying is that He didn’t rest on the 7th day from ALL HIS WORK THAT HE CREATED AND MADE. You’re saying that He created before the first day. I really don’t see the point in trying to figure out a way to justify the Bible with science, when you still have the 6000 years from Adam til today. And even if you have God creating matter exnohilo that still contradicts science. It’s a futile attempt to interpret the Bible to coincide with science because it still defies what science teaches us because it’s not intended to coincide with the natural scientific laws. It’s a miracle, a miraculous event which by definition is specifically intended to defy the natural laws of science. So what’s the point of going out of the way to interpret the Bible to coincide with the predicted age of the earth?

Genesis 2:3 says that God rested from all His work that He created and made. This refers to the six days of creation, not to anything before that. Creation ex nihilo (out of nothing) is simply not in the text of Genesis.

Just read your Bible. Genesis is about the six days of creation. It doesn’t describe what God may have done before He began to create the heavens and the earth.

Take Genesis 1:1–2 (CEB):
[1] When God began to create the heavens and the earth—
[2] the earth was without shape or form, it was dark over the deep sea, and God’s wind swept over the waters—

This translation captures it well: God began creating when the earth was already formless and void. That state of formlessness existed before the creative process began. How long it remained that way? The text doesn’t say. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the Bible. I'm just pointing out what it says.

The idea that “God began to create the heavens and the earth” as the earth was formless suggests the material already existed. The creative work of Genesis is ex materia—from existing substance—not ex nihilo.

The six days of creation are clearly ex materia. The text describes:

Separation of waters
Gathering of seas to reveal land
Plants brought forth from the earth
Adam formed from soil
Eve from Adam’s rib

Nothing in these accounts is created out of nothing.

So, again: just read it. It says what it says.

Case closed.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Regarding science proving the earth wasn't flat, we could have found this out through our Bibles. Love it when science catches up with God's Word.

Isa 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

 

[Job 33:6]

Regarding science proving the earth wasn't flat, we could have found this out through our Bibles. Love it when science catches up with God's Word.

Isa 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Circles of course are not spheres. Genesis describes ancient Israelite cosmology, not modern science.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Circles of course are not spheres. Genesis describes ancient Israelite cosmology, not modern science.

Circle is not the defintion of flat.

 

[trophy33]

Circle is not the defintion of flat.

Oh mine, circle is by definition flat, because it is a 2D shape.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

A circle is not flat by definition. A circle is round the opposite of flat.

circle
noun

US

/ˈsɝː.kəl/ UK

/ˈsɜː.kəl/

circle noun (SHAPE)​

Add to word list
A2 [ C ]
a continuous curved line, the points of which are always the same distanceaway from a fixed central point, or the area inside such a line:
Colored paper was cut into circles.
We sat in a circle.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

A circle is not flat by definition. A circle is round the opposite of flat.

Well..........according to Proverbs 8:27, a "circle" is essentially flat.

Of course, with Proverbs 8:27, a whole can of ancient worms can be opened where ancient meanings are at play.

And today, for different reasons, according to Geometry, a circle is defined as a two dimensional picture, just like a triangle, square and a hexagon are two dimensional flat pictures.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

A circle is not flat by definition. A circle is round the opposite of flat.

circle
noun

US

/ˈsɝː.kəl/ UK

/ˈsɜː.kəl/

circle noun (SHAPE)​

Add to word list
A2 [ C ]
a continuous curved line, the points of which are always the same distanceaway from a fixed central point, or the area inside such a line:
Colored paper was cut into circles.
We sat in a circle.

Right. People sit "in" a flat circle. They don't sit on top of a circle. That's what "we sat in a circle" means.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Right. People sit "in" a flat circle. They don't sit on top of a circle. That's what "we sat in a circle" means.

It says nothing about humans sitting in a circle.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It says nothing about humans sitting in a circle.

You might want to recheck what you cited above from a dictionary in post #791 ...........................................

I think the dictionary people disagree with you.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You might want to recheck what you cited above from a dictionary in post #791 ...........................................

I think the dictionary people disagree with you.

I’m referring to the Scripture

Isa 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Flat is not the definition for circle.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I’m referring to the Scripture

Isa 40:22 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.

Flat is not the definition for circle.

I'm not sure if you noticed, but up in post #792, I was referring to Scripture, too. And in both cases, the Hebrew word used is essentially the same, and it the cases of its use, about the most "3-D" we might get out of the Hebrew term, 'CHUG,' is a half-hemispherical vault rather than a sphere. Again, at best. Otherwise, for all intensive linguistic purposes, it's a relatively flat 'plate,' like a compass.

Strong's Hebrew: 2329. חוּג (chug) -- circle, vaultzzz

 

[Job 33:6]

Nobody assumes that the text describes ancient Israelite cosmology based on 1 verse of the Bible. But, that particular verse works well with ancient cosmology, nonetheless. The solid dome raqia.

Circle is not the defintion of flat.

As someone noted above, the hug is actually more like an upside down bowl or dome than it is a sphere. Just try reading through Genesis with a translation like the NRSV and you'll see it pretty plainly.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I'm not sure if you noticed, but up in post #792, I was referring to Scripture, too. And in both cases, the Hebrew word used is essentially the same, and it the cases of its use, about the most "3-D" we might get out of the Hebrew term, 'CHUG,' is a half-hemispherical vault rather than a sphere. Again, at best. Otherwise, for all intensive linguistic purposes, it's a relatively flat 'plate,' like a compass.

Strong's Hebrew: 2329. חוּג (chug) -- circle, vaultzzz

The Hebrew word "chug" (חוּג) primarily means circle or circuit. It is used to describe the concept of a circle, emphasizing completeness and perfection in creation.

Flat is not the definition for circle.

I am pretty sure God knows what He created and knows the difference between circle/round and flat when He sits above the earth.

I guess that's why most translators used the word circle and not "Flat"

​

New International Version He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. New Living Translation God sits above the circle of the earth. The people below seem like grasshoppers to him! He spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them. English Standard Version It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in; Berean Standard Bible He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth; its dwellers are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. King James Bible It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: New King James Version It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. New American Standard Bible It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to live in. NASB 1995 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. NASB 1977 It is He who sits above the vault of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. Legacy Standard Bible It is He who inhabits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; It is He who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to inhabit. Amplified Bible It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; [It is He] who stretches out the heavens like a veil And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. Christian Standard Bible God is enthroned above the circle of the earth; its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like thin cloth and spreads them out like a tent to live in. Holman Christian Standard Bible God is enthroned above the circle of the earth; its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like thin cloth and spreads them out like a tent to live in. American Standard Version It is he that sitteth above the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in; English Revised Version It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: GOD'S WORD® Translation God is enthroned above the earth, and those who live on it are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the sky like a canopy and spreads it out like a tent to live in. International Standard Version He's the one who sits above the disk of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He's the one who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in, New Heart English Bible It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in; Webster's Bible Translation It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: Majority Text Translations Majority Standard Bible He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth; its dwellers are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. World English Bible It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in,​

 

[2PhiloVoid]

The Hebrew word "chug" (חוּג) primarily means circle or circuit. It is used to describe the concept of a circle, emphasizing completeness and perfection in creation.

Flat is not the definition for circle.

I am pretty sure God knows what He created and knows the difference between circle/round and flat.

I guess that's why most translators used the word circle and not "Flat"

​

New International Version He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. New Living Translation God sits above the circle of the earth. The people below seem like grasshoppers to him! He spreads out the heavens like a curtain and makes his tent from them. English Standard Version It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in; Berean Standard Bible He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth; its dwellers are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. King James Bible It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: New King James Version It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. New American Standard Bible It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to live in. NASB 1995 It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. NASB 1977 It is He who sits above the vault of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. Legacy Standard Bible It is He who inhabits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; It is He who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to inhabit. Amplified Bible It is He who sits above the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; [It is He] who stretches out the heavens like a veil And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. Christian Standard Bible God is enthroned above the circle of the earth; its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like thin cloth and spreads them out like a tent to live in. Holman Christian Standard Bible God is enthroned above the circle of the earth; its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like thin cloth and spreads them out like a tent to live in. American Standard Version It is he that sitteth above the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in; English Revised Version It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: GOD'S WORD® Translation God is enthroned above the earth, and those who live on it are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the sky like a canopy and spreads it out like a tent to live in. International Standard Version He's the one who sits above the disk of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers. He's the one who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in, New Heart English Bible It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in; Webster's Bible Translation It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: Majority Text Translations Majority Standard Bible He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth; its dwellers are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. World English Bible It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in,

..."I guess that's why most translators used the word circle and not "Flat"..."

I think it's more along the line of most translators know the difference between a circle and a sphere, being that these two concepts are not synonyms. And if we slow down long enough to read and understand Isaiah 40:22 even in a variety of English translations, it becomes obvious that the 'circle' is at the human visual level, with the Heavens being spread out over that 'circle' ---- like a tent to live in ---- by God.

But hey! If you want to read it another way that's probably not in line with the worldviews of those living in the Bronze Age, go ahead.

 

[tampasteve]

ADMIN HAT ON

Please post on topic. This thread is NOT about flat Earth theories.

ADMIN HAT OFF​

 

[FaithT]

ADMIN HAT ON

Please post on topic. This thread is NOT about flat Earth theories.

ADMIN HAT OFF​

Thank you!