NBC: Gov. Abbott asks USDA to approve waiver banning junk food purchases with SNAP benefits

[ThatRobGuy]

Gov. Abbott asks USDA to approve waiver banning junk food purchases with SNAP benes

Gov. Greg Abbott is asking the USDA to grant the state a waiver to prevent Texans from using SNAP benefits to buy junk food and sweetened beverages.

www.nbcdfw.com

In his letter to U.S. Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins on Wednesday, Abbott wrote that the program was created to increase access to nutritious food and that many SNAP purchases are for food without nutritional value.

The governor said he wanted to prohibit SNAP benefits from being used to buy sweetened drinks and candy so that Texans can "lead healthy and productive lives" and requested the waiver "to prohibit the purchase of unhealthy, highly processed food using Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program (SNAP) benefits."

 

[RileyG]

What qualifies as junk food? I’m a cashier, and at least where I live in Nebraska, plenty of people buy junk food with SNAP.

 

[iluvatar5150]

What qualifies as junk food? I’m a cashier, and at least where I live in Nebraska, plenty of people buy junk food with SNAP.

I misunderstood the headline at first, too. What Abbott wants to do is ban the purchase of junk food with SNAP. Since "junk food" (which, as you accurately point out, is hard to define) is normally eligible for SNAP, TX needs a waiver to ban it.

I don't necessarily have a problem with this, even though I suspect the real motivation is more anti-poor and anti-welfare than it is anti-obesity.

I'll be interested to see if "junk food" includes ready-to-heat containers of barbecue at HEB and Buccee's.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I'll see if I can dig up the other article I was looking at last night that enumerated some of the things they were looking to restrict.

I remember seeing the following mentioned:
- Soda
- Heavily sweetened beverages excluding fruit juice and electrolyte drinks (although they'd need to quantify "heavily")
- Energy drinks
- Pre-packaged cookies, candy, and snack cakes
- Potato Chips


So, things like Coca-Cola, capri-suns, Hawaiian punch, and Red Bull would get zapped
As would things like Ruffles, Snickers bars, and Twinkies


On the beverage front
"
the bill includes specific exemptions to protect access to nutritious or medically necessary items. Milk and milk-based beverages, as well as milk substitutes like almond, soy, or rice milk, would remain eligible. So too would infant formula, nutritional supplements intended for weight reduction, and fruit or vegetable juices that contain no added sugar.

The legislation also carves out protections for beverages recommended by health care professionals, such as those containing plant-based proteins, or products fortified with vitamins and minerals that offer a meaningful source of nutrition.
"

So things like no-sugar added OJ would still be okay, as would milk or plant-based protein drinks...as well as things like Ensure that contain vitamins and minerals.

 

[Laodicean60]

I think this is an awesome idea and should be a Federal law. Food should be restricted to whole foods.

 

[iluvatar5150]

I'll see if I can dig up the other article I was looking at last night that enumerated some of the things they were looking to restrict.

I remember seeing the following mentioned:
- Soda
- Heavily sweetened beverages excluding fruit juice and electrolyte drinks (although they'd need to quantify "heavily")
- Energy drinks
- Pre-packaged cookies, candy, and snack cakes
- Potato Chips


So, things like Coca-Cola, capri-suns, Hawaiian punch, and Red Bull would get zapped
As would things like Ruffles, Snickers bars, and Twinkies


On the beverage front
"
the bill includes specific exemptions to protect access to nutritious or medically necessary items. Milk and milk-based beverages, as well as milk substitutes like almond, soy, or rice milk, would remain eligible. So too would infant formula, nutritional supplements intended for weight reduction, and fruit or vegetable juices that contain no added sugar.

The legislation also carves out protections for beverages recommended by health care professionals, such as those containing plant-based proteins, or products fortified with vitamins and minerals that offer a meaningful source of nutrition.
"

So things like no-sugar added OJ would still be okay, as would milk or plant-based protein drinks...as well as things like Ensure that contain vitamins and minerals.

From a purely practical standpoint, I think beverages are probably the easiest to filter. Once you get into manufactured, high-carb solid foods, it gets a lot fuzzier. Like, how do you differentiate between a cereal bar, a snack cake, and a muffin?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Food should be restricted to whole foods.

Yeah, let's burden poor people some more. They should have to make all their food from scratch, like better (i.e. more affluent), skinny Americans.

 

[Laodicean60]

, skinny Americans.

Not a bad idea, beats feeding them stuff that causes diseases.

 

[Tinker Grey]

Proverbs 31:6-7

 

[RDKirk]

I'll see if I can dig up the other article I was looking at last night that enumerated some of the things they were looking to restrict.

I remember seeing the following mentioned:
- Soda
- Heavily sweetened beverages excluding fruit juice and electrolyte drinks (although they'd need to quantify "heavily")
- Energy drinks
- Pre-packaged cookies, candy, and snack cakes
- Potato Chips


So, things like Coca-Cola, capri-suns, Hawaiian punch, and Red Bull would get zapped
As would things like Ruffles, Snickers bars, and Twinkies


On the beverage front
"
the bill includes specific exemptions to protect access to nutritious or medically necessary items. Milk and milk-based beverages, as well as milk substitutes like almond, soy, or rice milk, would remain eligible. So too would infant formula, nutritional supplements intended for weight reduction, and fruit or vegetable juices that contain no added sugar.

The legislation also carves out protections for beverages recommended by health care professionals, such as those containing plant-based proteins, or products fortified with vitamins and minerals that offer a meaningful source of nutrition.
"

So things like no-sugar added OJ would still be okay, as would milk or plant-based protein drinks...as well as things like Ensure that contain vitamins and minerals.

"No-sugar added OJ" isn't any more nutritious than Capri Sun.

A hot dog is certainly junk, but it's affordable.

 

[RDKirk]

I think this is an awesome idea and should be a Federal law. Food should be restricted to whole foods.

Whole foods are expensive, particularly in food deserts. They're going to have to change the fundamental basis of the program from money-based to item based: Instead of a SNAP card being worth a certain amount of money, it would be worth certain types of foodstuffs. So, a person with a SNAP card could walk out with a week's worth of chicken, beef, and broccoli regardless how much it costs.

I'll tell you what such legislation would really do, however: It would be used as a tool in the food industry wars to support certain segments of the industry to the expense of other segments. It would be the same thing that happened when the corn industry won the political-support war against the beef industry in the 60s.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

I don't think it necessarily has to be restricted to just whole foods. (although obviously that's the preferable option if possible)

For instance, when considering these products:

The ones on the left-hand side are clearly less unhealthy than the ones on the right-hand side, and price differences are negligible.

For the same price, you can get grilled chicken strips instead of chicken fries

And for 20 cents more, you can get real chicken over the processed chicken nuggets they made from chicken paste and caulking gun.

 

[BCP1928]

Not a bad idea, beats feeding them stuff that causes diseases.

It would be a good idea, if conservatives hadn't hijacked it as a weapon against the poor. I used to volunteer in an ESL program and one effective strategy they employed was to run a little cooking school. The object was to teach new immigrants how to make low-cost nutritious meals to their taste using the unfamiliar (to them) raw materials found in US grocery stores. They also, of course, learned English language food shopping vocabulary. A very popular and useful program, always a long waiting list. Of course, most of the students were women who already knew how to cook, which many of the US poor do not.

 

[iluvatar5150]

Whole foods are expensive, particularly in food deserts. They're going to have to change the fundamental basis of the program from money-based to item based: Instead of a SNAP card being worth a certain amount of money, it would be worth certain types of foodstuffs. So, a person with a SNAP card could walk out with a week's worth of chicken, beef, and broccoli regardless how much it costs.

That's basically how WIC works - or, at least how it worked when I was a cashier 20 years ago.

I think you could split the difference by keeping it money-based while making it only eligible to be used on certain white-listed foods.

Either way, I think the bigger expense for whole foods is time rather than money. I can cook; I can cook healthy; and I can cook cheap. Cooking fast, though, is a lot harder to pull off. It's possible, but it narrows your options significantly. Even eggs, which is about as cheap, easy, and fast a meal as possible, can still run you 10-20 minutes if you have an electric stove and need to wait for the pan to heat up. Now think of something like a sandwich and how long that would take to make the bread, cook the meat, and make any condiments. Oh hey - on top of all the work requirements we want to put on this stuff, you also have to make your own mayonnaise. Or peanut butter and jelly, looool. Drag your three kids to the pick-your-own-berry farm so you can spend all the next day in the kitchen over a giant pot of boiling water.

 

[Laodicean60]

Whole foods are expensive, particularly in food deserts.

Yes, so is healthcare because of these foods.

it would be worth certain types of foodstuffs. So, a person with a SNAP card could walk out with a week's worth of chicken, beef, and broccoli regardless how much it costs.

In time, it will pay for itself, and this might not be a bad idea. Remember TV dinners when we were young, I loved them, then in the 80's non-alcoholic fatty liver became a thing.

It would be used as a tool in the food industry wars to support certain segments of the industry to the expense of other segments.

Maybe not, if we could force them to stop poisoning us, then we could open their market back up. Food coloring and other chemicals, nutrients stripped because of processing, fewer hormones.....

It would be the same thing that happened when the corn industry won the political-support war against the beef industry in the 60s.

Bad science because Eisenhower had a heart attack, we concluded that cholesterol was a cause, thus the low-fat diet, and ignored a European scientist who said sugar increased cholesterol. Seventy years later, eggs are a healthy food. I learned here how powerful the corn lobbyists are with ethanol, which lowers gas mileage, shocking.

 

[Laodicean60]

It would be a good idea, if conservatives hadn't hijacked it as a weapon against the poor. I used to volunteer in an ESL program and one effective strategy they employed was to run a little cooking school. The object was to teach new immigrants how to make low-cost nutritious meals to their taste using the unfamiliar (to them) raw materials found in US grocery stores. They also, of course, learned English language food shopping vocabulary. A very popular and useful program, always a long waiting list. Of course, most of the students were women who already knew how to cook, which many of the US poor do not.

Can you tell me what unfamiliar raw materials they had to learn about?

 

[ThatRobGuy]

It seems that certain states already have a framework in place that could be piggy-backed off of in terms of the categorization of which ones are and are not eligible.

Colorado (which happens to be the thinnest states in the Union for what it's worth) may have something that could be leveraged.

Food Item​	State Tax​	Local Tax (Aurora, Denver)​
Staple groceries (for home prep/consumption)​	​	/ (varies by city)​
Prepared hot foods (restaurant meals)​	​	​
Candy and chewing gum​	​	​
Carbonated beverages​	​	​
Food from vending machines​	​	​
Cold deli items (cold sandwiches, salads)​	​	​
Fast food (burgers, fries, pizza to-go, etc.)​	​	​
Alcoholic beverages​	​	​

If it's a state taxable food item, it's not eligible for snap.

Seems like it's at least a starting point, and one that could leverage an already-existing food categorization dataset they're already using to determine tax exemptions at the point of sale.

 

[Laodicean60]

I don't think it necessarily has to be restricted to just whole foods.

I consider the ones on the left as a whole, even though the cutting is processed, it is the stuff on the right that is harming people. I like to see a small ingredients list. My bad use of terminology.

 

[BCP1928]

Can you tell me what unfamiliar raw materials they had to learn about?

Potatoes instead of taro or cassava for one, many new vegetables, substitutes for unavailable herbs and spices, things like that.

 

[RDKirk]

That's basically how WIC works - or, at least how it worked when I was a cashier 20 years ago.

I think you could split the difference by keeping it money-based while making it only eligible to be used on certain white-listed foods.

It would have to be detached from a monetary limit. It would have to allow a family to buy certain amounts of whole food regardless of price...otherwise, they'll always be forced into cheaper junk food.

Either way, I think the bigger expense for whole foods is time rather than money. I can cook; I can cook healthy; and I can cook cheap. Cooking fast, though, is a lot harder to pull off. It's possible, but it narrows your options significantly. Even eggs, which is about as cheap, easy, and fast a meal as possible, can still run you 10-20 minutes if you have an electric stove and need to wait for the pan to heat up. Now think of something like a sandwich and how long that would take to make the bread, cook the meat, and make any condiments. Oh hey - on top of all the work requirements we want to put on this stuff, you also have to make your own mayonnaise. Or peanut butter and jelly, looool. Drag your three kids to the pick-your-own-berry farm so you can spend all the next day in the kitchen over a giant pot of boiling water.

There is even more to it than time. I remember in my corporate days taking a city bus (the one time in 20 years that I did) between facilities of my company. It put me on a bus besides one of the company cafeteria workers who was heading home. In conversation, she related that with the city's crummy bus service (I already knew it was pretty bad), it took her a two-hour commute to get to work and back. I also knew the area she lived in had been identified as a "food desert," with no grocery store carrying whole foods within an hour's bus ride of her neighborhood. That's a lot of time to take out of a working person's day. If that person is working multiple jobs, it becomes extremely difficult. Carrying groceries on a bus is even more difficult...that would require daily trips to the store just to have bus-manageable loads. And throw in the task of picking up the children at the childcare center into that.

Then, when you've gotten home with those hungry children, do you have a kitchen that makes cooking quick and efficient? Or do you have a one- or two-burner stove with two feet of counter space and four cubic feet of cabinet space? How large is the refrigerator?

A lot of negative factors are stacked up.