What are we to do respecting the Ten Commandments?

[timothyu]

Old obsolete.

Do upgrades make something obsolete, or improved upon? The foundation remains the same.

 

[Doug Brents]

Do upgrades make something obsolete, or improved upon? The foundation remains the same.

The New is not an upgrade of the Old. God made the Old with Abraham, and then He the Old was renewed/improved when God renewed it with Isaac, and again when He renewed it with Jacob, and again when He renewed it with Moses. But in Jeremiah, and again in Hebrews, He talks about a NEW, not a renewal/improvement of the Old.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

The New is not an upgrade of the Old. God made the Old with Abraham, and then He the Old was renewed/improved when God renewed it with Isaac, and again when He renewed it with Jacob, and again when He renewed it with Moses. But in Jeremiah, and again in Hebrews, He talks about a NEW, not a renewal/improvement of the Old.

Doug, tell us then what is the new covenant, what does it contain, be specific and use scripture like I did. We should refrain from our personal bias but use the proper scripture only.

Peace

 

[timothyu]

He talks about a NEW, not a renewal/improvement of the Old.

Still the same foundation, based on His will, not ours to do with as we please.

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug, tell us then what is the new covenant, what does it contain, be specific and use scripture like I did. We should refrain from our personal bias but use the proper scripture only.

Peace

The New Covenant is sealed and established in Jesus' blood (Luke 22:20).
Ezekiel 36:26–27 lists several traits of the coming New Covenant: a new heart, a new spirit, the indwelling Holy Spirit, and true holiness. The Mosaic Law could provide none of these things (see Romans 3:20).
The New Covenant is a better covenant (Heb 7:22) because it was made on better promises (Heb 8:6), and was sealed with a better sacrifice.
The New Covenant necessitates trust/faith in Jesus (Heb 11:16).
The New Covenant doesn't contain "do this/don't do that" style laws as the OC did. There are a couple of lists of the types of people who will not receive eternal life (1 Cor 6:9-11, Gal 5:19-21), but each of these notes that repentance from these things and being washed in Jesus' blood will result in forgiveness of these sins.
The New Covenant is based on the Spirit while the Old Covenant was based on the letter of the Law (2 Cor 3:5-6).

 

[Doug Brents]

Still the same foundation, based on His will, not ours to do with as we please.

No, not the same foundation. Different promises, different surety (Jesus' Blood), different results (indwelling of the Spirit).
Yes, it is His will and not ours. But under the OT, there was no discretion in anything. Under the NT, we have great discretion and freedom (see the example of eating meat sacrificed to idols (1 Cor 8:1-13).

 

[timothyu]

Yes, it is His will and not ours.

Exactly

 

[Doug Brents]

Exactly

Now respond to the rest of my post.

 

[timothyu]

Now respond to the rest of my post.

New Kingdom.. same requirements

 

[Doug Brents]

New Kingdom.. same requirements

Sorry, but that is wrong. New Kingdom, new covenant, new law, new promises, new hope, new .... About the only thing that remains unchanged is God.

 

[timothyu]

About the only thing that remains unchanged is God.

Which as i said has only requested His will ahead of our own ever since the beginning.

 

[Doug Brents]

Which as i said has only requested His will ahead of our own ever since the beginning.

You must not know the OT very well. He required a lot more than that of them. But if you want to boil it down to that, it is a very, very condensed summery of God's desire. There is much more to what we owe God, but you can have it as you will.

 

[timothyu]

But if you want to boil it down to that, it is a very, very condensed summery of God's desire.

True.. part two said to love all as self. He does His thing and we do our part as commanded

 

[BobRyan]

To make sure no one mistakes me I shall list the Ten Commandments as they are received by the Catholic Church.

Why not list them as they are actually stated in the Ten commands spoken by God at Sinai directly to the entire congregation by God Himself. (Because as it is - your list leaves out key details found in the original statements spoken by God directly to the people.)

Exodus 20

"And God spoke all these words, saying:

2 “I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.

3 “You shall have no other gods before Me.

4 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image—any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 5 you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, 6 but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.

7 “You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

12 “Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.

13 “You shall not murder.

14 “You shall not commit adultery.

15 “You shall not steal.

16 “You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

17 “You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.”

 

[BobRyan]

Obviously, the commandment to "keep the Sabbath holy" was not to be maintained

Nothing in Ex 20 or Deut 5 says that the Sabbath commandment was to be ignored, not maintained etc.

In fact Is 66:23 says that for all eternity after the cross in the New heavens and New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to bow down".

What was given to Israel to practice out of deference to God's holiness no longer was required of those who had entered into God's holy presence by the grace of Christ.

on the contrary - we are still to honor parents, worship only God, serve only God , we are still to avoid taking God's name in vain and for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before God to worship". Is 66:23

Heb 6.19 We have this hope as an anchor for the soul, firm and secure. It enters the inner sanctuary behind the curtain, 20 where our forerunner, Jesus, has entered on our behalf. He has become a high priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek.
Heb 9.He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, thus obtaining eternal redemption....
For Christ did not enter a sanctuary made with human hands that was only a copy of the true one; he entered heaven itself, now to appear for us in God’s presence.

True - but none of that says that we are now to take God's name in vain, worship other God's or ignore what God Himself calls "the Holy Day of the Lord" Is 58:13

 

[BobRyan]

Sorry, but that is wrong. New Kingdom, new covenant, new law, new promises, new hope, new .... About the only thing that remains unchanged is God.

same law.

Jer 31:31-34 New Covenant "I will write My Law on their heart and mind".. That same New Covenant quoted verbatim unchanged in Heb 8.

Deut 5 "God spoke these ten words and added no more".

22 “These words the Lord spoke to all your assembly, in the mountain from the midst of the fire, the cloud, and the thick darkness, with a loud voice; and He added no more. And He wrote them on two tablets of stone and gave them to me.

Deut 5 is not referring to "Deuteronomy" -- the event that comes 40 years after the Exodus 20 event. Rather it is referring to the Sinai event itself.

So when Jeremiah's readers looked at the New Covenant promises in Jer 31 - the "Law" that they were considering was most certainly the TEN no matter what else they also thought of that concept.

 

[BobRyan]

But Jesus gave us 2 simple commandments on how to live.. We do that, we do God's will and that is a start at making him happier with us.

Jesus gave no "ignore scripture" teaching.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Why not list them as they are actually stated in the Ten commands spoken by God at Sinai directly to the entire congregation by God Himself.

Why not use the Ten Commandments as Moses told them in Deuteronomy chapter five? It's the same ten.

 

[BobRyan]

Why not use the Ten Commandments as Moses told them in Deuteronomy chapter five? It's the same ten.

1. Deut 5 is 40 years later and simply points back to the Ex 20 event when the commandments were actually given.
2. The Ex 20 statement did not get deleted by Moses' re-wording summary and paraphrase of Ex 20
3. Moses is not chiseling new stone in Deut 5. The stone tablets are still in the Ark of the Covenant unedited in Deut 5
4. It makes sense to add whatever new wording in Deut 5 -- but not to delete/edit replace the actual ex 20 statement that is the one and only one actual in stone, and the only one spoken to the entire congregation by God Himself.
5. The reading in Deut 5 is not identical to the words spoken and written in Ex 20. A number of things in Deut 5 would not be included in what was chiseled on stone in Ex 20 and still there unchanged at the Time of Deut 5 - but inside the ark.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

1. Deut 5 is 40 years later and simply points back to the Ex 20 event when the commandments were actually given.
2. The Ex 20 statement did not get deleted by Moses' re-wording summary and paraphrase of Ex 20
3. Moses is not chiseling new stone in Deut 5. The stone tablets are still in the Ark of the Covenant unedited in Deut 5
4. It makes sense to add whatever new wording in Deut 5 -- but not to delete/edit replace the actual ex 20 statement that is the one and only one actual in stone, and the only one spoken to the entire congregation by God Himself.
5. The reading in Deut 5 is not identical to the words spoken and written in Ex 20. A number of things in Deut 5 would not be included in what was chiseled on stone in Ex 20 and still there unchanged at the Time of Deut 5 - but inside the ark.

Isn't Deuteronomy 5 as inspired as Exodus 20?