The Church started in the wilderness

[Dan Perez]

A good question if honestly wondering.

Look around - thousands of viewers, readers, visitors every day or so, reading a public forum that is like a field of weeds - in which someone might find a pearl of great price.
If they see you looking for a pearl too, what is so unusual that they include you in a post ?

And Col 2:16 Therefore , do NOT // ME ., is a DISJUNCATIVE PARTICLE NEGATIVE and means NEVERRRRRRRRRRR let ANYONE

JUDGE you in eating or in drinking or in respect of a FEAST DAY or a NEW MOON or SABBATHS , which are a SHADOW

OF COMING THINGS , , but the BODY is of Christ .

dan p

 

[DamianWarS]

First let me say that God had Peter to clearly warn us about some of Paul’s writing. (2Peter:3:15-16) (v.15) And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; (v.16) As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Now let us take heed to this warning, we can’t ignore all the bible and just concentrate on a hand full of verses out of the writings of Paul. Because some of Paul’s writing is hard to be understood.

so you're trying to discredit what I said because Paul is too hard to understand... then you go ahead and quote a whole pile from Paul. this is hypocritical. Let's use scripture as a way to encourage studying it, not discourage it.

Grace is nothing more than a free gift. And that free gift is our access back to the tree of life (Jesus) which Adam caused us to lose by disobeying God. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (Romans 5: 12) But to maintain your grace you must keep the law. (1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) It doesn’t matter what you or I think sin is, it’s what God says sin is that counts.

law is ambiguous in 1 John 3:4. contextually it is a standard that is separate from sin and that's what it's being used for without identifying the "thing" that is law. But are we to absorb all of the law? am I sinning because I don't value physical circumcision as the old covenant exposes? Or are you seeing this within a 10 commandments vacuum? Scripture doesn't separate the 10 like this so for me it's irresponsible to approach any usage of law that you like into the 10 unless there is cause to do so, there is no cause to do that in this verse so why are you going there? Do you have some more support that can show this connection? when I approach "law" addressed to new covenant keepers I approach it as the law of Christ which has lots of scriptural support. With that said I recognize that the role of law (old covenant) was to show right from wrong, albeit it superficially focused more the inward as a reflection of the outward whereas the new focuses on the outward as a reflection of the inward. It doesn't really matter the specific of law in this context because we know it doesn't violate new covenant teaching so we should assume the point is driven by Christ's law then it is any specific commandments or group of from the old covenant.

So by coming under the blood of Jesus you are saved from your past sins. And if you are saved now, it is on a day to day basis. Because for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God (Romans 23:3), and if you continue to live you will sin again. When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws. These animal sacrificial laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins).

the bible does not label laws like this. law is law and there is no dividing it. It is clear the sacrificial system has been brought to an end by the sacrifice of Christ. so we are tempted to draw a line in law and call some sacrificial, then say this is what Christ ended. But who has drawn those lines? Scripture does not rank law, and will use language from the least, or if you are guilty of one you are guilty of the whole law. There isn't any cause to view this in a 10 commandment vacuum, law is law, from the least to the greatest. In the same way if you are guilty of one you are guilty of the whole law, if Christ puts an end to one, since law is not separated, it is implicit the entire law

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation

"moral conduct" is an example of dividing law, pulling what you deem as "moral" out of the old covenant. where I can agree there is a concept of universal morals the 10 commandments are not them, since for example with the 4th you need to be told it to understand how to keep it thus it cannot be critically called universally moral because it cannot be universally understood. do not murder, steal, lie, etc... all have negative moral products if we go against them that are universal in nature but Christ takes this further and addresses issues of the heart rather than the surface action promoting active actions of love over simply a resistance to wrongful action.

old covenant law is based on time and place and as such should not be viewed as universal in nature. But it can be based on universal constructs that extend outside the laws. For example, we see this with circumcision, the law speaks of the flesh, but the real meaning is a circumcision of the heart which is the value under new covenant teaching. it's the same construct just different products. The same with dietary laws or laws focused on separating things (like grains, animals, clean/unclean...). We know from Peter's dream what this really means, representing the outpouring of God's spirit first to the Jews and then to all. The same with the sacrificial system, the construct doesn't change, we still need the sacrifice, but it is just under Christ, not bulls, lambs and doves. So eating according to the letter of the law is no different than circumcizing according to the letter of the law or keeping the Sabbath according to the letter of the law or sacrificing according to the letter of the law. Their meaning doesn't change, it's the same as it was since the beginning, but the outward service and obligation to the meaning is not managed by the old covenant. We still keep circumcision through Christ but this doesn't mean we do nothing. it means we are under Christ's service not under the service of law.

 

[Bro.T]

so you're trying to discredit what I said because Paul is too hard to understand... then you go ahead and quote a whole pile from Paul. this is hypocritical. Let's use scripture as a way to encourage studying it, not discourage it.


law is ambiguous in 1 John 3:4. contextually it is a standard that is separate from sin and that's what it's being used for without identifying the "thing" that is law. But are we to absorb all of the law? am I sinning because I don't value physical circumcision as the old covenant exposes? Or are you seeing this within a 10 commandments vacuum? Scripture doesn't separate the 10 like this so for me it's irresponsible to approach any usage of law that you like into the 10 unless there is cause to do so, there is no cause to do that in this verse so why are you going there? Do you have some more support that can show this connection? when I approach "law" addressed to new covenant keepers I approach it as the law of Christ which has lots of scriptural support. With that said I recognize that the role of law (old covenant) was to show right from wrong, albeit it superficially focused more the inward as a reflection of the outward whereas the new focuses on the outward as a reflection of the inward. It doesn't really matter the specific of law in this context because we know it doesn't violate new covenant teaching so we should assume the point is driven by Christ's law then it is any specific commandments or group of from the old covenant.



the bible does not label laws like this. law is law and there is no dividing it. It is clear the sacrificial system has been brought to an end by the sacrifice of Christ. so we are tempted to draw a line in law and call some sacrificial, then say this is what Christ ended. But who has drawn those lines? Scripture does not rank law, and will use language from the least, or if you are guilty of one you are guilty of the whole law. There isn't any cause to view this in a 10 commandment vacuum, law is law, from the least to the greatest. In the same way if you are guilty of one you are guilty of the whole law, if Christ puts an end to one, since law is not separated, it is implicit the entire law



"moral conduct" is an example of dividing law, pulling what you deem as "moral" out of the old covenant. where I can agree there is a concept of universal morals the 10 commandments are not them, since for example with the 4th you need to be told it to understand how to keep it thus it cannot be critically called universally moral because it cannot be universally understood. do not murder, steal, lie, etc... all have negative moral products if we go against them that are universal in nature but Christ takes this further and addresses issues of the heart rather than the surface action promoting active actions of love over simply a resistance to wrongful action.

old covenant law is based on time and place and as such should not be viewed as universal in nature. But it can be based on universal constructs that extend outside the laws. For example, we see this with circumcision, the law speaks of the flesh, but the real meaning is a circumcision of the heart which is the value under new covenant teaching. it's the same construct just different products. The same with dietary laws or laws focused on separating things (like grains, animals, clean/unclean...). We know from Peter's dream what this really means, representing the outpouring of God's spirit first to the Jews and then to all. The same with the sacrificial system, the construct doesn't change, we still need the sacrifice, but it is just under Christ, not bulls, lambs and doves. So eating according to the letter of the law is no different than circumcizing according to the letter of the law or keeping the Sabbath according to the letter of the law or sacrificing according to the letter of the law. Their meaning doesn't change, it's the same as it was since the beginning, but the outward service and obligation to the meaning is not managed by the old covenant. We still keep circumcision through Christ but this doesn't mean we do nothing. it means we are under Christ's service not under the service of law.

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). After this we find only seven more verses in the bible, and none of them does away with God's commandments.

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

 

[DamianWarS]

Throughout the bible we find that in order to receive eternal salvation we must keep God's commandments to the end. If we make a mistake we must not give up, but I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus (Philippians 3:13-14). The last chapter in the whole bible reminds us of this one last time. "Blessed are they that do his commandments that they may have right to the tree of life." (Revelation 22:14). After this we find only seven more verses in the bible, and none of them does away with God's commandments.

The commandments of God are not hard to keep (I John 5:3) and furthermore, they teach us love in the highest degree. If you love Jesus you will keep his commandments (St. John 14:15). You will not displease the Lord by: Worshipping other gods, having graven images, taking his name in vain, breaking his Sabbath day (which is Saturday not Sunday), or dishonoring your parents. On the other hand, if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not kill him, commit adultery with his spouse, steal from him, falsely accuse him, or covet anything of his.

This is true love, and if obeyed how much better would our world be? This is why Jesus said that the two greatest commandments are loving the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind; and loving your neighbor as yourself (Matthew 22:35-40). These two commandments are the foundation of the entire law. Many reject the law, but it is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good (Romans 7:12) even today.

You are conflating terms to what you want them to say without any support. The law extends far beyond the 10 so why is it we are cutting the 10 out to act apart from the complete law? Jesus quotes the 2 greatest commandments, quotes found outside the 10 yet you still maintain it is only the 10 we look to. Christ gives us a heuristic approach for keeping law, if all the law and prophets hang from these two commandments we are better to keep these two over the law and by doing so we fulfill it as they have the same goal.

For example, Jesus tells us how to better keep the commandment not to murder and not to commit adultery in Mat 5. His answer shows you how Christ's law looks in practice. He also does the same in Mat 12:12 saying that it's lawful to do good on the sabbath showing us that "doing good" aka an example of Christ's law in practice, fulfills the Sabbath commandment. So there are 3 of the commandments devalued for what the letter shows us and interpreted through the lens of Christ's law, by Christ himself and showing us a different product than what the letter of the law can produce. Christ focus is in fact counter letter of the law because he is not looking at the letter of the law to determine his actions but to a higher law which is why without hesitation he drops the letter of the sabbath to do good.

So it's no surprise to read that the law of love fulfills the entire law (Gal 5:14, Rom 13:10). Christ tells us this and shows us what this looks like in practice and Paul repeats this same message.

 

[Bro.T]

You are conflating terms to what you want them to say without any support. The law extends far beyond the 10 so why is it we are cutting the 10 out to act apart from the complete law? Jesus quotes the 2 greatest commandments, quotes found outside the 10 yet you still maintain it is only the 10 we look to. Christ gives us a heuristic approach for keeping law, if all the law and prophets hang from these two commandments we are better to keep these two over the law and by doing so we fulfill it as they have the same goal.

For example, Jesus tells us how to better keep the commandment not to murder and not to commit adultery in Mat 5. His answer shows you how Christ's law looks in practice. He also does the same in Mat 12:12 saying that it's lawful to do good on the sabbath showing us that "doing good" aka an example of Christ's law in practice, fulfills the Sabbath commandment. So there are 3 of the commandments devalued for what the letter shows us and interpreted through the lens of Christ's law, by Christ himself and showing us a different product than what the letter of the law can produce. Christ focus is in fact counter letter of the law because he is not looking at the letter of the law to determine his actions but to a higher law which is why without hesitation he drops the letter of the sabbath to do good.

So it's no surprise to read that the law of love fulfills the entire law (Gal 5:14, Rom 13:10). Christ tells us this and shows us what this looks like in practice and Paul repeats this same message.

Allow me to makes things a little plain with support. In the days of Jesus, the religious leaders were constantly questioning Jesus in order to test Him and on this occasion a lawyer asked Jesus what is the great commandment?

Matthew (22:35) Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, (36) Master, which is the great commandment in the law?

Jesus reply was the 1st great commandment was to love God and the 2nd was to love ones neighbor. These were given as a commandment for man to love.

Matthew (22:37) Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. (38) This is the first and great commandment. (39) And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

One should note that by following the 1st and 2nd great commandment they will be adhering to the 10 commandments issued by Moses. If they love the Lord they won’t have any other Gods before him, or make any graven images or take his name in vain, they will remember his Sabbath and if they love their neighbor they will honor their Father and Mother and they won’t kill or commit adultery or steal or bear false witness nor will they covet. This is why Jesus goes on to state that on these two commandments hang the law and the prophets. Because by fulfilling these two commandments one fulfills the law.

(40) On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

Jesus stated that these 2 commandments where the 2 great commandments however the following verses will show that these commandments were not new and that the Jews and Jesus was speaking to were aware of them. These were the same ones issued to Israel by Moses.

Deuteronomy (6:5) And thy shall love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Leviticus (19:18) Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD.

Now that it has been established that man was commanded to love one needs to examine the scriptures to get an understanding of the love required in these great commandments.

In the following verses Moses is telling the Israelites that God chose them strictly out of His love for them.Deuteronomy (7:7) The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye were the fewest of all people: (8) But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt. (9) Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to a thousand generations;

Note in verse (9) Moses states a condition that God requires in order for Him to keep covenant and have mercy. And that is an individual must love God and keep His commandments. The scriptures will show that there is only one way to love God and that is by keeping His commandments.

Note that Jesus states in the following verse that in order to love Him one has to keep His commandments.

John (14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Jesus further defines the love He requires when He states in the following verse that those who have His commandments and keep them are those that love Him. One does not have to guess at Jesus definition of love He made it clear.

John (14:21) He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Jesus also reinforced what was said in Deuteronomy verse (9) by adding that those that love Him will be loved by the Father. How does one love Jesus? by keeping His commandments and Moses said God will keep covenant and have mercy with those who keep His commandments. So therefore by following Jesus one shall receive love from Him as well as mercy from the Father.

Note in these scriptures it did not say those who profess their love for Jesus or those that claim that Jesus knows what in their heart. Jesus made a clear and direct statement if one has His commandments and keeps them they are the ones who love Him. The statement that Jesus made as well as the condition Moses gave in Deuteronomy verse (9) were based on behalf of an individuals actions not their feeling or emotions or conditions. To exhibit love towards Jesus one must engage in a specific action and that action is being obedience to the word of God. And one will see that they are to be obedient regardless of their feeling or the surrounding circumstances.

Jesus states again in the following verses what is required of an individual to receive His love.

John (15:9) As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

(10) If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

Notice Jesus use the word if ye keep my commandments, so what happen if ye do not keep his commandments. The above verse shows to be loved of Jesus one needs to be obedient. Jesus also states in verse (10) that He was obedient to the Father by keeping His commandments and therefore abides in His love. Now Jesus is the example man is to follow and just as He was obedient to the word of God we have to be obedient to God’s word.

 

[Doug Brents]

Truth oftentimes, to many seems stranger then fiction. Such is the case when it comes, to the observance of God’s 7th Day Sabbath. Each Sunday millions of people attend church services for the purpose of worshiping the Lord. Most not realizing they can’t read one time in the Holy Bible to attend church on the first day of the week Sunday. This is second nature to most requiring no thought. They are simply following the tradition that has been set forth by man. Many believe that New Testament Christians worshiped on Sunday the 1st day of the week, and that the 7th day Sabbath is a Jewish institution, which started with Moses.

We understand that Peter said in 2Peter 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 1:20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Peter is letting us know that prophecy, from Genesis to Malachi is more surer then the New Testament. Let see how Paul word it in Ephesians 2: 19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

So is Paul telling the Gentiles how important the old testament is, and how they have the same laws as Israel do. In the scriptures it's written in Isaiah 8: 20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Now any Christian in their right mind wouldn’t dare say that it’s okay to steal, kill or commit adultery or break any of the other seven commandments. But when it comes to the fourth commandment, people avoid it like a plague! They are either uninformed about which day is the Sabbath day of the God of the Bible or they are just following the tradition of religion that was passed down through the family or maybe they have let some preacher give them other excuses for ignoring God’s true day of worship.

The Sabbath Day of the Lord -God of the Bible. (Gen.2:2-5) (v.2) And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. (v.3) And God blessed the seventh day (every seventh day of the week is a blessed and holy day) and sanctified it (it is a day that is separated (sanctified) for a purpose) because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. (v.5) “and there was not a man to till the ground.” There was not a Jew, Catholic, Baptist, or Seventh Day Adventist; in fact, there was not a Christian when He constituted the Sabbath Day!

Jesus Christ (John 1:1-3, 10-14) 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

He is the one who rested on the Sabbath day and commanded that you do the same. If you really understood the scriptures you would realize that He was the one who became known as Jesus who gave you the Ten Commandments. So not only did He command you to cease from your work on that day He also commanded you to. (Lev.23:3) “Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of rest, an holy convocation;” He said on the Sabbath day that you should also have an holy convocation, which means holy gathering or simply put, go to church. Remember in Acts 7: 38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Let's back up and look at a few things in Scripture:
Was keeping the sabbath a commandment from Creation to Mt. Sinai?
No, there is no commandment to keep, nor any evidence in Scripture of keeping, the sabbath in Genesis. Moses says that God blessed the sabbath (Gen 2:2-3). It cannot be overemphasized, however, that this was God's rest. No obligation on man's part to keep the Sabbath is even implied in this passage. And that is the only mention of the sabbath until Exodus 16, where we find the command to keep the sabbath one time. Then in Exodus 20, the command is given to the Jews, but not to the Gentiles, for the ongoing keeping of the sabbath. This was a method of distinguishing the Jews from the Gentiles, to keep the Jews separate and distinct, similar to the dietary restrictions of the Law (which also are not restated in the New Covenant).

In the New Covenant, we find that the Old Covenant has been superseded by the New Covenant. The Old is to be "kicked out", just as we are told in Gal 4:21-31. Paul goes on in Gal 5 to say that anyone who attempts to keep even one commandment from the Old Covenant in an attempt to be made righteous by the keeping must then keep the whole of the Old Covenant Law or be guilty of breaking the whole Law.

So if the keeping of the sabbath is required of us today, then there must be a commandment to keep the sabbath in the New Covenant. Can you show me one? I have read the Bible cover to cover several times, but I cannot find one. Can you point it out to me?

The example of the Apostles going to the synagogues on the sabbath is not a command to keep the sabbath. It is an example of them going to where people are already studying God, and are therefore receptive to hearing about God, so that they can speak about God to a "warm" audience. Paul does the same thing in Athens, but he is not there just on the sabbath (he spoke every day with those who were present (Acts 17:17)), because that was not the Athenian's day of worshiping.

Then we come to the passages that expressly exclude sabbath keeping from the New Covenant commands.
Col 2:16-17 says that the keeping of the sabbath, along with new moons and festivals, are a shadow of what was to come, namely Christ.
Heb 4 is very clear that the Lord Jesus is the New Covenant sabbath, and "TODAY" is the day in which we should enter into that rest.
Rom 14:1-12 says that keeping the sabbath is a personal decision, and should not be pushed by one person on another. If one person sees one day as more holy, that is good for him, but he should not look down on the person who sees all days as equal; and vice versa.

So if you feel that it is right for you to keep the sabbath (as it is commanded in the Old Covenant) then you should keep the sabbath. But you should keep your opinion to yourself in this matter, and not try to force others to live as you do. For those of us who know the Truth, there is no need to keep a certain day, for every day is "Today", and Today is the day in which we live for Christ.

 

[Bro.T]

Let's back up and look at a few things in Scripture:
Was keeping the sabbath a commandment from Creation to Mt. Sinai?
No, there is no commandment to keep, nor any evidence in Scripture of keeping, the sabbath

Everything you have said is probably correct according to Roman Christianity teachings. Which means if you are attending Church on the first day of the week, Sunday. Dealing with paganism Easter, Christmas, rapture, etc. Then you are dealing with that other Jesus Paul talks about in 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. None of this things ye do are written in the Bible to do.

Solomon says in Proverbs 3:1-3 My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

You’re are right that we can’t find keeping the Sabbath day as a Commandment in Genesis, but at the same time we can’t find thou shall not kill in Genesis either, but Cain killed Abel and got punished for it. Adam sin because Eve talk to the serpent (Satan). Before then Satan got kick out of heaven because of sin. But the word of God says in 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Also it says in 1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

In the New Covenant, we find that the Old Covenant has been superseded by the New Covenant. The Old is to be "kicked out", just as we are told in Gal 4:21-31. Paul goes on in Gal 5 to say that anyone who attempts to keep even one commandment from the Old Covenant in an attempt to be made righteous by the keeping must then keep the whole of the Old Covenant Law or be guilty of breaking the whole Law.

When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws. These animal sacrificial laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins).

Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12).

So if the keeping of the sabbath is required of us today, then there must be a commandment to keep the sabbath in the New Covenant. Can you show me one? I have read the Bible cover to cover several times, but I cannot find one. Can you point it out to me?

Jesus made it clear that the seventh day was made for mankind. (Mark 2:27-28) (v.27) And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Do we understand that, the Sabbath was made for us, not us for the Sabbath. (v.28) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. The Son of man (Jesus) is the Lord God of the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday). (Ex.31:16-17) (v.16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (v.17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. You see that the Sabbath day is a sign between God and His people forever. Israel was His people then and whoever chooses to obey Him now are His people (Isaiah 56th Chtp). God intended for the weekly Sabbath (this word means rest in Hebrew) to be a refreshing blessing for mankind. God knew that human beings would need periodic rest and change from work. But the purpose for keeping God's Sabbath goes far beyond simply resting on that day.

Now lets take a look at; (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44) (v.13) Now when Paul and his company loosed from Pa’-phus, they came to Per’-ga in Pam-phyl’-I-a: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. (v.14) But when they departed from Per’-ga, they came to An’-ti-och in Pi-sid’-I-a, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. Paul went into the church (synagogue) on the sabbath day the seventh day not the first day (Sunday). (v.15) And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (v.42) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

The Gentiles didn’t asked Paul to come preach us something different next Sunday. They wanted Paul to preach to them the same thing that he taught the Jews, the next sabbath. Even the Gentiles knew that if they were going to serve the same God that Paul and the Jews (Israelites) served that they would have to serve him on the day that God had set up. (v.42) And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Not the next Sunday but the next sabbath.

The example of the Apostles going to the synagogues on the sabbath is not a command to keep the sabbath. It is an example of them going to where people are already studying God, and are therefore receptive to hearing about God, so that they can speak about God to a "warm" audience. Paul does the same thing in Athens, but he is not there just on the sabbath (he spoke every day with those who were present (Acts 17:17)), because that was not the Athenian's day of worshiping.

Then we come to the passages that expressly exclude sabbath keeping from the New Covenant commands.
Col 2:16-17 says that the keeping of the sabbath, along with new moons and festivals, are a shadow of what was to come, namely Christ.

In Leviticus, 23rd Chapter the sabbath day and the High Holy Days which begin I believe on the new moon. Are the feast of the Lord's. These days are to be observe in their season. In Colossians 2:16-17, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. These feast days are the plans of God, they represent the future, with example from the past. All Holy Days are not to eat or drink, such as the atonement, but still to be observe. So this is actually what a person would say to someone who do not keep these feast day of the Lord, if they were judging them on those High and Holy Sabbath days, they were keeping. They would quoted Colossians 2: 16-17. So if you keep the first day of the week, Sunday, then it makes no sense to use this verse. You cannot worship other days that’s not written in the Bible to do, and then use the Bible to justify it. So if you keep another day thats not written in the Bible, then you are doing something on your own, thus it would really be contradictorily.

So if you feel that it is right for you to keep the sabbath (as it is commanded in the Old Covenant) then you should keep the sabbath. But you should keep your opinion to yourself in this matter, and not try to force others to live as you do. For those of us who know the Truth, there is no need to keep a certain day, for every day is "Today", and Today is the day in which we live for Christ.

Let me tell you what the book say in 1 John 2: 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

You continue sinning and you are going to have a problem with the Father eventually. Let's skip down to verse 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

The Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week is in the Commandments.

 

[Doug Brents]

Everything you have said is probably correct according to Roman Christianity teachings. Which means if you are attending Church on the first day of the week, Sunday. Dealing with paganism Easter, Christmas, rapture, etc. Then you are dealing with that other Jesus Paul talks about in 2 Corinthians 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. None of this things ye do are written in the Bible to do.

Solomon says in Proverbs 3:1-3 My son, forget not my law; but let thine heart keep my commandments: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.

You’re are right that we can’t find keeping the Sabbath day as a Commandment in Genesis, but at the same time we can’t find thou shall not kill in Genesis either, but Cain killed Abel and got punished for it. Adam sin because Eve talk to the serpent (Satan). Before then Satan got kick out of heaven because of sin. But the word of God says in 1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. Also it says in 1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Not sure what "Roman Christianity teachings" are, but it is irrelevant because the only thing that matters is what is Biblically correct. Easter, Christmas, etc. are a different subject all together, and we can address them at a later time. Keeping the sabbath is the topic here, so let's stay on point. If keeping the sabbath is something that the NT Christ follower must do, then please show me where the command, inference, instruction, or precedent is set in the NT Scriptures.

When the bible speaks of laws we no longer have to keep, it is speaking of the sacrificial laws and Priesthood laws. These animal sacrificial laws were a school master pointing us to the fact that Jesus would be sacrificed for our sins. Since Jesus died we are no longer under a school master, (required to offer up bulls and goats for our sins).

Where in Scripture is there ever a distinction. Are you saying that when Abraham was told to kick Hagar and her son out of his camp that he only had to kick her attitude, work, or clothing out, but he could continue to sleep with her? No sir, he was told to kick her out completely, and we are also commanded to kick the Old Covenant and ALL of its commands, laws, ordinances, practices, etc. out. Circumcision predates the Law of Moses given on Sinai by over 400 years, but it is circumcision that Paul addresses when he says that if we attempt to keep any part of the Law in order to make ourselves righteous, then we are subject to keeping the whole of the Law and Christ is of no use to us.

Now we must believe (have faith) Jesus died for us (Hebrews 10:4,9-10) 4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins. 9 then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

This doesn't mean we don't have to obey God's moral laws of conduct. That would be like a man getting paroled from prison and then ignoring the same laws that sent him to prison in the first place. Jesus only died once, so if we willingly break God's law, after accepting Jesus, our reward will be eternal damnation (Hebrews 10:26-27) 26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. Let us avoid this at all costs, seeking a better reward. Jesus will return real soon And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (Revelation 22:12).

I didn't say anything about not obeying God's moral law. The moral law was restate by Jesus and the Apostles into the New Covenant, but only the instructions in the New Covenant are a part of the New Covenant. The Old and New Covenants are completely separate, like Sarah and Hagar were completely separate women. They have similarities, but those similarities do not make them the same. Murder was forbidden in the Old Covenant (commandment #6), and it was forbidden in the New Covenant (Matt 5:21-22). But keeping the sabbath was not restated as a command in the New Covenant.

Jesus made it clear that the seventh day was made for mankind. (Mark 2:27-28) (v.27) And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Do we understand that, the Sabbath was made for us, not us for the Sabbath. (v.28) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. The Son of man (Jesus) is the Lord God of the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday). (Ex.31:16-17) (v.16)

Yes, and He is also Lord of all the other days. He IS the sabbath rest for those who are in Him.

Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (v.17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. You see that the Sabbath day is a sign between God and His people forever. Israel was His people then and whoever chooses to obey Him now are His people (Isaiah 56th Chtp). God intended for the weekly Sabbath (this word means rest in Hebrew) to be a refreshing blessing for mankind. God knew that human beings would need periodic rest and change from work. But the purpose for keeping God's Sabbath goes far beyond simply resting on that day.

Keeping the sabbath was a command for ISRAEL (not Christ followers) under the Old Covenant. But we are no longer under the Old Covenant.

Now lets take a look at; (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44) (v.13) Now when Paul and his company loosed from Pa’-phus, they came to Per’-ga in Pam-phyl’-I-a: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. (v.14) But when they departed from Per’-ga, they came to An’-ti-och in Pi-sid’-I-a, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. Paul went into the church (synagogue)

The synagogue was not the Church. The synagogue was a meeting place for the Jewish men to discuss and study the Word of God on the sabbath. The Apostles went there on sabbath to find men already engaged in studying God, and so they found a ready and receptive audience to discussion about God. They didn't go to a bar to discuss God, they went to the synagogue. And they didn't go on the third day of the week because no one would have been there that day (they would have all been working). They went on sabbath (7th day) when people were gathered together there.

on the sabbath day the seventh day not the first day (Sunday). (v.15) And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on. (v.42) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.

The Gentiles didn’t asked Paul to come preach us something different next Sunday. They wanted Paul to preach to them the same thing that he taught the Jews, the next sabbath. Even the Gentiles knew that if they were going to serve the same God that Paul and the Jews (Israelites) served that they would have to serve him on the day that God had set up. (v.42) And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God. Not the next Sunday but the next sabbath.

The Gentiles of the city were used to the Jews' practice of worshiping God on sabbath. They worked on the other 6 days, but came to learn about God from the Jews on the sabbath, when the Jews were studying Him. While this is a great example of using the situation to best facilitate the spread of the Gospel (instead of going against the grain of society), it is not an example of a command to keep sabbath, nor is it a precedent that we must follow as a command.

In Leviticus, 23rd Chapter the sabbath day and the High Holy Days which begin I believe on the new moon. Are the feast of the Lord's. These days are to be observe in their season. In Colossians 2:16-17, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days. Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. These feast days are the plans of God, they represent the future, with example from the past. All Holy Days are not to eat or drink, such as the atonement, but still to be observe. So this is actually what a person would say to someone who do not keep these feast day of the Lord, if they were judging them on those High and Holy Sabbath days, they were keeping. They would quoted Colossians 2: 16-17. So if you keep the first day of the week, Sunday, then it makes no sense to use this verse. You cannot worship other days that’s not written in the Bible to do, and then use the Bible to justify it. So if you keep another day thats not written in the Bible, then you are doing something on your own, thus it would really be contradictorily.

The sabbath and the "high holy days" are indeed commands found in the Old Covenant, but the Old Covenant is not binding on the New Covenant Christ follower. Because these commands are not found in the New Covenant to which the New Covenant Christ follower is subject. Jesus kept the Passover, but then He BECAME our Passover, and so the keeping of Passover is no longer required of the New Covenant Christ follower (Communion has replaced Passover as a remembrance of Jesus, not the Exodus from Egypt).

Let me tell you what the book say in 1 John 2: 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

You continue sinning and you are going to have a problem with the Father eventually. Let's skip down to verse 3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him. 6He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.

The Sabbath day on the seventh day of the week is in the Commandments.

That is a perfect example of applying a true Scripture in an untrue manner and creating a lie (just as Satan did when he tempted Jesus in the desert. Jesus' commands are the commands of the New Covenant. He fulfilled and completed the Old Covenant, and in so doing removed it and ALL of its parts completely from our lives. The Old Covenant has not held any power or authority for nearly 2000 years (since Jesus death). Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law, and just before His death He said, "It is finished." What was finished? His mission, what He came to do. And what did He come to do? Fulfill the Law. So His mission to fulfill the Law was finished. He kept the Law completely and perfectly, and in so doing He did everything that Man was supposed to do in the contract/covenant made with God. Then the Father did all the parts of the Covenant that God was required to do. Thus making the covenant completely fulfilled and no longer binding or of any effect on either party. Then He made a NEW Covenant with mankind, and that is what we are subject to today.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Not sure what "Roman Christianity teachings" are, but it is irrelevant because the only thing that matters is what is Biblically correct. Easter, Christmas, etc. are a different subject all together, and we can address them at a later time. Keeping the sabbath is the topic here, so let's stay on point. If keeping the sabbath is something that the NT Christ follower must do, then please show me where the command, inference, instruction, or precedent is set in the NT Scriptures.

Where in Scripture is there ever a distinction. Are you saying that when Abraham was told to kick Hagar and her son out of his camp that he only had to kick her attitude, work, or clothing out, but he could continue to sleep with her? No sir, he was told to kick her out completely, and we are also commanded to kick the Old Covenant and ALL of its commands, laws, ordinances, practices, etc. out. Circumcision predates the Law of Moses given on Sinai by over 400 years, but it is circumcision that Paul addresses when he says that if we attempt to keep any part of the Law in order to make ourselves righteous, then we are subject to keeping the whole of the Law and Christ is of no use to us.

I didn't say anything about not obeying God's moral law. The moral law was restate by Jesus and the Apostles into the New Covenant, but only the instructions in the New Covenant are a part of the New Covenant. The Old and New Covenants are completely separate, like Sarah and Hagar were completely separate women. They have similarities, but those similarities do not make them the same. Murder was forbidden in the Old Covenant (commandment #6), and it was forbidden in the New Covenant (Matt 5:21-22). But keeping the sabbath was not restated as a command in the New Covenant.

Yes, and He is also Lord of all the other days. He IS the sabbath rest for those who are in Him.

Keeping the sabbath was a command for ISRAEL (not Christ followers) under the Old Covenant. But we are no longer under the Old Covenant.

The synagogue was not the Church. The synagogue was a meeting place for the Jewish men to discuss and study the Word of God on the sabbath. The Apostles went there on sabbath to find men already engaged in studying God, and so they found a ready and receptive audience to discussion about God. They didn't go to a bar to discuss God, they went to the synagogue. And they didn't go on the third day of the week because no one would have been there that day (they would have all been working). They went on sabbath (7th day) when people were gathered together there.

The Gentiles of the city were used to the Jews' practice of worshiping God on sabbath. They worked on the other 6 days, but came to learn about God from the Jews on the sabbath, when the Jews were studying Him. While this is a great example of using the situation to best facilitate the spread of the Gospel (instead of going against the grain of society), it is not an example of a command to keep sabbath, nor is it a precedent that we must follow as a command.

The sabbath and the "high holy days" are indeed commands found in the Old Covenant, but the Old Covenant is not binding on the New Covenant Christ follower. Because these commands are not found in the New Covenant to which the New Covenant Christ follower is subject. Jesus kept the Passover, but then He BECAME our Passover, and so the keeping of Passover is no longer required of the New Covenant Christ follower (Communion has replaced Passover as a remembrance of Jesus, not the Exodus from Egypt).

That is a perfect example of applying a true Scripture in an untrue manner and creating a lie (just as Satan did when he tempted Jesus in the desert. Jesus' commands are the commands of the New Covenant. He fulfilled and completed the Old Covenant, and in so doing removed it and ALL of its parts completely from our lives. The Old Covenant has not held any power or authority for nearly 2000 years (since Jesus death). Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law, and just before His death He said, "It is finished." What was finished? His mission, what He came to do. And what did He come to do? Fulfill the Law. So His mission to fulfill the Law was finished. He kept the Law completely and perfectly, and in so doing He did everything that Man was supposed to do in the contract/covenant made with God. Then the Father did all the parts of the Covenant that God was required to do. Thus making the covenant completely fulfilled and no longer binding or of any effect on either party. Then He made a NEW Covenant with mankind, and that is what we are subject to today.

The first thing I noticed with your post is you are using your own words against the clear scripture and inserting our meaning as if that is equal to God's Word and while our wishes, desires, thoughts and ideas are important to us, they should never be applied to be equal to scripture and that's never a good idea for any of us to do. Scripture tells us
Jer 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things,
And [a]desperately wicked;
Who can know it?

There is no scripture that says the Sabbath commandment has been abrogated. Only God can sanctify a day Gen 2:1-3, only God can sanctify us Eze 20:12 and no man can reverse His blessing Num 23:20 so its best to allow God to be God and for us to be His humble servants Isa 56:1-6 not trying to change something God said is unchangeable Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18-19 and even warned us man would try to do so Dan 7:25

You make this statement:

. If keeping the sabbath is something that the NT Christ follower must do, then please show me where the command, inference, instruction, or precedent is set in the NT Scriptures.

Have you not read the New Testament scriptures; they are filled with the Sabbath. The Sabbath is the only day God gave both a number and named it, thus saith the Lord

Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.
The fact the Sabbath is written all over the NT is proof enough that the Sabbath never ended or changed.

The New Covenant is established on better promises Heb 8:6 not established on better or new laws because the law of the Lord is perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7 written personally by God's perfect finger Exo 31:18 which is the Spirit of Truth and God's Spirit of Truth never becomes untruth and either does any of His commandments Psa 119:151 as Christs righteousness is everlasting Psa 119:142 Psa 119:172 which includes His Sabbath thus saith the Lord Isa 56:1-6, His Spirit of Truth helps us keep these commandments John 14:15-18 and given to those who obey Him Acts 5:32

God instead of deleting His law in the New Covenant- He writes them in our mind and our heart Heb 8:10 and instead of keeping them on our own power like the Israelites tried to Exo 19:8 He is the one doing Heb 8:10 as long as we don't rebel against Him Rom 8:7-8

Its why its still a sin to break any of the Ten Commandments even in the New Testament Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 James 2:10-12 and why the Sabbath is still kept according to the commandment in the New Testament Luke 23:56 kept faithfully by God's people Heb 4:9NIV

Jesus in His own Words said the Sabbath would be kept by His faithful long after the Cross Mat 24:20 and why the disciples kept every Sabbath preaching to both Jews and Gentiles Acts 15:21 Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 because the apostles were followers of Christ and this is how Christ kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16 we too are called to be followers of Christ if we abide in Him 1 John 2:5-6 The Sabbath wasn't just kept in the synagogues, which is what we today call church, but the apostles still kept the Sabbath even when there was no synagogues in the area Acts 16:13

You can see the consistency with the Sabbath all throughout the Bible

God said:

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.

Lev 23:3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

A holy convocation is a holy gathering like in Chruch

Did this change in the New Testament?

Not by Jesus

Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah.

Did it change after the Cross?

Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
Acts 15:21 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

Not by the apostle's

Does it change in the New Heaven and New Earth

Yes. Only because now instead of worshipping Christ in spirit, the saints will be in His physical presence, just like how it was in the beginning Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11 Mark 2:27 Gen 1:26 but the Sabbath remains just as what was promised.

Isa 66:23 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

If one takes issue with Sabbath worship now, they probably won't be so happy in heaven because Jesus said it continues. He loves us each so much He would never force us to worship Him, it always has to come by faith and love. Which is why the saints keep His commandments now- His version Rev 14:12 through faith and love which reconciles Rev 22:14

 

[Doug Brents]

The first thing I noticed with your post is you are using your own words against the clear scripture and inserting your meaning as if that is equal to God's Word and while our wishes, desires, thoughts and ideas are important to us, they should never be applied to be equal to scripture and that's never a good idea for any of us to do. Scripture tells us
Jer 17:9 “The heart is deceitful above all things,
And [a]desperately wicked;
Who can know it?

There is no scripture that says the Sabbath commandment has been abrogated.

Yes, there is. This is not just my personal "wishes, desires, thoughts and ideas". The keeping of the sabbath was a tenant of the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant has been completed, and is no longer binding on mankind today. Anyone who says that it is still binding today is directly contradicting at least two different Scriptures which I have already cited.

Only God can sanctify a day Gen 2:1-3, only God can sanctify us Eze 20:12 and no man can reverse His blessing Num 23:20 so its best to allow God to be God and for us to be His humble servants Isa 56:1-6 not trying to change something God said is unchangeable Psa 89:34

Psa 89:34 says that God will not VIOLATE His covenant. It does not say that He will not fulfill (and thereby cancel) the First (Old) Covenant and then establish a second (New) Covenant.

Mat 5:18-19

Matt 5:18-19 says that Jesus will not remove the Old Covenant until all of it has been fulfilled. Jesus said on the Cross, "It is finished." Everything He came to do was finished, and the Old Covenant was fulfilled. That means that the Old Covenant is no longer binding on anyone today. It is to be cast out like Hagar and her son, because the children of God are the children of the free woman (the New Covenant) and not the children of the slave woman (the Old Covenant).

and was even warned man would do Dan 7:25

Dan 7:25 is not talking about the changing/cancellation of the sabbath mandate. That is talking about one individual king from the Fourth Kingdom (the Roman Empire) that will "intend to make alterations in times and in law", but it does not say that he will succeed in making any alterations.

Have you not read the New Testament scriptures; they are filled with the Sabbath. The Sabbath is the only day God gave both a number and named it, thus saith the Lord

Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.
The fact the Sabbath is written all over the NT is proof enough that the Sabbath never ended or changed.

There is also a vast amount of conversation about the sacrifice of animals in the Temple. But the continued discussion of that practice does not make the continuation of that practice mandatory. You need to remain consistent. Just because worship on the sabbath is your pet commandment from the OT (not a NT command), doesn't make it a command for all NT Christ followers.

The New Covenant is established on better promises Heb 8:6 not established on better or new laws because the law of the Lord is perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7 written personally by God's perfect finger Exo 31:18 which is the Spirit of Truth and God's Spirit of Truth never becomes untruth and either does any of His commandments Psa 119:151 as Christs righteousness is everlasting Psa 119:142 Psa 119:172 which includes His Sabbath thus saith the Lord Isa 56:1-6, His Spirit of Truth helps us keep these commandments John 14:15-18 and given to those who obey Him Acts 5:32

Again, if you seek to keep even the smallest of the OT commands in order to be made righteous by them, then you are required to keep ALL of the OT commands perfectly from birth, and Christ is of no value or help to you (Gal 5:2-6). The OT commands that were written by the hand of God are not still in effect today. They were part of the Old Covenant Law that was given on Mt Sinai, and that is the Law that was kicked out of our lives by Jesus' life, death, and resurrection (Gal 4:21-31).

God instead of deleting His law in the New Covenant- He writes them in our mind and our heart Heb 8:10 and instead of keeping them on our own power like the Israelites tried to Exo 19:8 He is the one doing Heb 8:10 as long as we don't rebel against Him Rom 8:7-8

Its why its still a sin to break any of the Ten Commandments even in the New Testament Rom 7:7 Mat 5:19-30 James 2:10-12 and why the Sabbath is still kept according to the commandment in the New Testament Luke 23:56 kept faithfully by God's people Heb 4:9NIV

You are taking for your "examples" events that took place the day after Jesus died. The Apostles, let alone the other disciples, still did not understand all of what Jesus had commanded them, nor did they understand all of what Jesus had done. This understanding was not given to them until Jesus opened their minds and revealed what was hidden in the Scriptures to them in Luke 24:45. NONE of the Ten Commandments (as part of the Old Covenant) are still binding today. The only thing that is binding today are the commands given in the New Covenant, and nine of the ten were restated in the New Covenant, but keeping the sabbath was not restated in the New Covenant.

Jesus in His own Words said the Sabbath would be kept by His faithful long after the Cross Mat 24:20

The keeping of the sabbath is TRADITION, but is no longer a command to the NT Christ follower. Yes, the Jews continued to keep the sabbath, but from a position of tradition, not Law.

and why the disciples kept every Sabbath preaching to both Jews and Gentiles Acts 15:21 Acts 13:42 Acts 13:44 Acts 18:4 because the apostles were followers of Christ and this is how Christ kept the Sabbath Luke 4:16 we too are called to be followers of Christ if we abide in Him 1 John 2:5-6 The Sabbath wasn't just kept in the synagogues, which is what we today call church

No, the synagogue was not the Church. The synagogue was a building. The Church is the people, not a building. The Church, from the Greek ekklesia, means those who are called out for a purpose. The building is irrelevant, it is the people who have been called out.

, but the apostles still kept the Sabbath even when there was no synagogues in the area Acts 16:13

Why did Paul go out to the river on the sabbath? Because there was a place where they thought "that there was a place of prayer". It was not the building they were looking for, but the people who already had their minds set toward God (an open and receptive audience).

You can see the consistency with the Sabbath all throughout the Bible

God said:

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.

Lev 23:3 ‘Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work on it; it is the Sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.

A holy convocation is a holy gathering like in Chruch

Yes, those are all great commands for the people who lived under the Old Covenant. But we are not under the Old Covenant.

Did this change in the New Testament?

Not by Jesus

Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read. 17 And He was handed the book of the prophet Isaiah.

Jesus lived His entire life under the Old Covenant. He was born under the Law, and fulfilled the Law perfectly. The Law (and the Old Covenant) was not removed until His death and resurrection.

Did it change after the Cross?

Acts 13:42 So when the Jews went out of the synagogue, the Gentiles begged that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath.
Acts 13:44 On the next Sabbath almost the whole city came together to hear the word of God.
Acts 15:21 21 For Moses has had throughout many generations those who preach him in every city, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath.”
Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.

Not by the apostle's

Great examples of how to carry out ministry (go to where you have a ready made receptive audience), but not examples of commands to keep the sabbath.

Does it change in the New Heaven and New Earth

Yes. Only because now instead of worshipping Christ in spirit, the saints will be in His physical presence, just like how it was in the beginning Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11 Mark 2:27 Gen 1:26 but the Sabbath remains just as what was promised.

Isa 66:23 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

If one takes issue with Sabbath worship now, they probably won't be so happy in heaven because Jesus said it continues. He loves us each so much He would never force us to worship Him, it always has to come by faith and love. Which is why the saints keep His commandments now- His version Rev 14:12 through faith and love which reconciles Rev 22:14

Heb 4:1-11 makes it clear that Jesus is our rest, our sabbath, and "Today" is that day to enter into that rest (Him).

As I said in an earlier post, you are perfectly fine in keeping the sabbath if that is what you choose to do (seeing one day as greater than the others). But you must not attempt to enforce your views on other Christ followers who have greater faith than you and see all days as equal (Rom 14). As Paul says about foods that also applies to certain days, "I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to the one who thinks something is unclean, to that person it is unclean."

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, there is. This is not just my personal "wishes, desires, thoughts and ideas". The keeping of the sabbath was a tenant of the Old Covenant. The Old Covenant has been completed, and is no longer binding on mankind today. Anyone who says that it is still binding today is directly contradicting at least two different Scriptures which I have already cited.

Psa 89:34 says that God will not VIOLATE His covenant. It does not say that He will not fulfill (and thereby cancel) the First (Old) Covenant and then establish a second (New) Covenant.

Matt 5:18-19 says that Jesus will not remove the Old Covenant until all of it has been fulfilled. Jesus said on the Cross, "It is finished." Everything He came to do was finished, and the Old Covenant was fulfilled. That means that the Old Covenant is no longer binding on anyone today. It is to be cast out like Hagar and her son, because the children of God are the children of the free woman (the New Covenant) and not the children of the slave woman (the Old Covenant).

Dan 7:25 is not talking about the changing/cancellation of the sabbath mandate. That is talking about one individual king from the Fourth Kingdom (the Roman Empire) that will "intend to make alterations in times and in law", but it does not say that he will succeed in making any alterations.

There is also a vast amount of conversation about the sacrifice of animals in the Temple. But the continued discussion of that practice does not make the continuation of that practice mandatory. You need to remain consistent. Just because worship on the sabbath is your pet commandment from the OT (not a NT command), doesn't make it a command for all NT Christ followers.

Again, if you seek to keep even the smallest of the OT commands in order to be made righteous by them, then you are required to keep ALL of the OT commands perfectly from birth, and Christ is of no value or help to you (Gal 5:2-6). The OT commands that were written by the hand of God are not still in effect today. They were part of the Old Covenant Law that was given on Mt Sinai, and that is the Law that was kicked out of our lives by Jesus' life, death, and resurrection (Gal 4:21-31).

You are taking for your "examples" events that took place the day after Jesus died. The Apostles, let alone the other disciples, still did not understand all of what Jesus had commanded them, nor did they understand all of what Jesus had done. This understanding was not given to them until Jesus opened their minds and revealed what was hidden in the Scriptures to them in Luke 24:45. NONE of the Ten Commandments (as part of the Old Covenant) are still binding today. The only thing that is binding today are the commands given in the New Covenant, and nine of the ten were restated in the New Covenant, but keeping the sabbath was not restated in the New Covenant.

The keeping of the sabbath is TRADITION, but is no longer a command to the NT Christ follower. Yes, the Jews continued to keep the sabbath, but from a position of tradition, not Law.

No, the synagogue was not the Church. The synagogue was a building. The Church is the people, not a building. The Church, from the Greek ekklesia, means those who are called out for a purpose. The building is irrelevant, it is the people who have been called out.

Why did Paul go out to the river on the sabbath? Because there was a place where they thought "that there was a place of prayer". It was not the building they were looking for, but the people who already had their minds set toward God (an open and receptive audience).

Yes, those are all great commands for the people who lived under the Old Covenant. But we are not under the Old Covenant.

Jesus lived His entire life under the Old Covenant. He was born under the Law, and fulfilled the Law perfectly. The Law (and the Old Covenant) was not removed until His death and resurrection.

Great examples of how to carry out ministry (go to where you have a ready made receptive audience), but not examples of commands to keep the sabbath.

Heb 4:1-11 makes it clear that Jesus is our rest, our sabbath, and "Today" is that day to enter into that rest (Him).

As I said in an earlier post, you are perfectly fine in keeping the sabbath if that is what you choose to do (seeing one day as greater than the others). But you must not attempt to enforce your views on other Christ followers who have greater faith than you and see all days as equal (Rom 14). As Paul says about foods that also applies to certain days, "I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to the one who thinks something is unclean, to that person it is unclean."I

I see you are not reading the scripture references as your response are not engaging to what the Text says
I’lll show you one as an example

You said

Psa 89:34 says that God will not VIOLATE His covenant. It does not say that He will not fulfill (and thereby cancel) the First (Old) Covenant and then establish a second (New) Covenant.

God said:
Psa 89:34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

You keep trying to force the New Covenant to be established on new laws, but God said it is established on better promises Heb 8:6 still has His law in the New Covenant Heb 8:10 because God promised not to alter His Words, I think we should believe God at His Word. You need to prove where God said the Sabbath is no longer one of His commandments. The Sabbath is written all over the New Covenant so I am going to keep my faith in what He said.

Jesus said not a jot or tittle can pass from His law until ALL is fulfilled Mat 5:18 and not ALL has been fulfilled until Jesus comes in the clouds hence why breaking the least of these commandments and teaching others to affects our status in heaven Mat 5:18–19

You claim the Sabbath is “old Covenant” but where is scripture to support this? Where does scripture say doing righteousness is bad, we no longer need to join ourselves to Christ, being His servant- no longer required, we no longer need His sanctification, where did God take away His Sabbath blessing. He didn’t. The Sabbath is still a commandment after the death of Jesus Luke 23:56, at the Cross He said It Is Finished, nothing could be changed or added to His covenant, it was ratified by His blood at His death. The Sabbath was kept according to the commandment after His death and Jesus never corrected anyone nor went back on His promise Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18-19 because we can trust Him.

Should we not believe Jesus own Words where He predicted His faithful would be keeping the Sabbath 40 years after His death Mat 24:20 and for eternity Isa 66:22-23 If we believe in Jesus we should believe what He said.

The Ten Commandments did not come in a unit of nine or one, they came in a unit of Ten numbered by God by design Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 and if we are to even keep one of these commandments, we are to keep them all and breaking one we break them all James 2:10-12, hence why Jesus taught not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandment as one would be in fear of sin and Judgment Mat 5:19-30. Jesus keeps His promises so its a matter if we believe man and follow their popular traditions that lead people away from loyalty and obedience to God which Jesus said that's the path leading one in a ditch Mat 15:3-14, or take the narrow path and keep God’s commandments His version and have faith in Him when He said Remember, to not do the opposite and forget is not the definition of Remember

Heb 4 says nothing about Jesus being our Sabbath- Jesus in His own Words say He is Lord of the Sabbath Mat 2:28, the Sabbath is the seventh day thus saith the Lord Exo 20:10, not that He is the Sabbath, the creation, day or commandment. Heb 4 is a direct quote from Heb 3:7-8 quoting David in Psa 95 and it says nothing about today being the Sabbath but says Today if we hear His voice, not to harden our hearts in rebellion to Him, which I recommend listening to. It’s best to just let the scripture quote Itself, it doesn’t need our help.

 

[Bro.T]

Not sure what "Roman Christianity teachings" are, but it is irrelevant because the only thing that matters is what is Biblically correct. Easter, Christmas, etc. are a different subject all together, and we can address them at a later time. Keeping the sabbath is the topic here, so let's stay on point. If keeping the sabbath is something that the NT Christ follower must do, then please show me where the command, inference, instruction, or precedent is set in the NT Scriptures.

Where in Scripture is there ever a distinction. Are you saying that when Abraham was told to kick Hagar and her son out of his camp that he only had to kick her attitude, work, or clothing out, but he could continue to sleep with her? No sir, he was told to kick her out completely, and we are also commanded to kick the Old Covenant and ALL of its commands, laws, ordinances, practices, etc. out. Circumcision predates the Law of Moses given on Sinai by over 400 years, but it is circumcision that Paul addresses when he says that if we attempt to keep any part of the Law in order to make ourselves righteous, then we are subject to keeping the whole of the Law and Christ is of no use to us.

I didn't say anything about not obeying God's moral law. The moral law was restate by Jesus and the Apostles into the New Covenant, but only the instructions in the New Covenant are a part of the New Covenant. The Old and New Covenants are completely separate, like Sarah and Hagar were completely separate women. They have similarities, but those similarities do not make them the same. Murder was forbidden in the Old Covenant (commandment #6), and it was forbidden in the New Covenant (Matt 5:21-22). But keeping the sabbath was not restated as a command in the New Covenant.

Yes, and He is also Lord of all the other days. He IS the sabbath rest for those who are in Him.

Keeping the sabbath was a command for ISRAEL (not Christ followers) under the Old Covenant. But we are no longer under the Old Covenant.

The synagogue was not the Church. The synagogue was a meeting place for the Jewish men to discuss and study the Word of God on the sabbath. The Apostles went there on sabbath to find men already engaged in studying God, and so they found a ready and receptive audience to discussion about God. They didn't go to a bar to discuss God, they went to the synagogue. And they didn't go on the third day of the week because no one would have been there that day (they would have all been working). They went on sabbath (7th day) when people were gathered together there.

The Gentiles of the city were used to the Jews' practice of worshiping God on sabbath. They worked on the other 6 days, but came to learn about God from the Jews on the sabbath, when the Jews were studying Him. While this is a great example of using the situation to best facilitate the spread of the Gospel (instead of going against the grain of society), it is not an example of a command to keep sabbath, nor is it a precedent that we must follow as a command.

The sabbath and the "high holy days" are indeed commands found in the Old Covenant, but the Old Covenant is not binding on the New Covenant Christ follower. Because these commands are not found in the New Covenant to which the New Covenant Christ follower is subject. Jesus kept the Passover, but then He BECAME our Passover, and so the keeping of Passover is no longer required of the New Covenant Christ follower (Communion has replaced Passover as a remembrance of Jesus, not the Exodus from Egypt).

That is a perfect example of applying a true Scripture in an untrue manner and creating a lie (just as Satan did when he tempted Jesus in the desert. Jesus' commands are the commands of the New Covenant. He fulfilled and completed the Old Covenant, and in so doing removed it and ALL of its parts completely from our lives. The Old Covenant has not held any power or authority for nearly 2000 years (since Jesus death). Jesus said He came to fulfill the Law, and just before His death He said, "It is finished." What was finished? His mission, what He came to do. And what did He come to do? Fulfill the Law. So His mission to fulfill the Law was finished. He kept the Law completely and perfectly, and in so doing He did everything that Man was supposed to do in the contract/covenant made with God. Then the Father did all the parts of the Covenant that God was required to do. Thus making the covenant completely fulfilled and no longer binding or of any effect on either party. Then He made a NEW Covenant with mankind, and that is what we are subject to today.

 

[Bro.T]

Doug Brents:

Let's go into the future in Isaiah 56: 1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. 3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 4For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Let's understand this, because The lord have not changed his ways. For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed (Malachi 3:6) or Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

With this being said, let's understand that the Lord have put the Gentiles in power, and that the Lord have put the Israelites in captivity under the Gentiles, even to this day. Because the Gentiles run the world today, but not all the tribes are directly under the Gentiles. The Lord don't change and the Bible have been given to man to follow instruction on how to serve the Lord. But Israel is under the Gentiles in Captivity and the Gentiles has come up with other doctrine and has cause confusion among the people. But didn't Paul say in Romans 3: 1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? What you fail to realize is that the Bible is one big book, from Genesis to Revelation, if the Sabbath day had changed, it would have been written that it changed, in the Old and the New Testament.

Ample evidence from history shows that the celebration of Sunday originated from pagan practices of SUN WORSHIP. In March of 321 A.D., the Roman Emperor Constantine, who was at first a sun-worshiper and later a Christian convert, issued the first decree declaring Sunday to be a legal day of rest. In 336 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church officially changed the observance of Sabbath to Sunday for political and economic expediency. Since then, the original Sabbath gradually gave way to Sunday observance and the practice remains to this day.

The Catholic authorities proclaim: "The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, Mo., as taken from History of the Sabbath. pg. 802

The Biblical Sabbath, however, is and has always been on the seventh day of the week, or Saturday. Despite the prevalence of Sunday worship in Christendom, we must look to the Bible as our authority and keep the seventh day Sabbath ordained by God. Go into your history books and prove me wrong, I challenge you to do so.

The Sabbath of the Lord has, and will always be the seventh day of the week (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) and has not been changed. I know that some will say, well we don’t know if the seventh day in Jesus time is the same seventh day now. Well the bible says: (Mat 28:1) In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. Now this proves that in Jesus day when the Sabbath (Saturday) ended the first day of the week (Sunday) began. Guess what? In our day when the seventh day ends the first day of the week begins, no change!


Let’s take a look and see what Jesus did when he came in the flesh, And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:14-16)

 

[Doug Brents]

I see you are not reading the scripture references as your response are not engaging to what the Text says
I’lll show you one as an example

God said:
Psa 89:34 My covenant I will not break,
Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.

You keep trying to force the New Covenant to be established on new laws, but God said it is established on better promises Heb 8:6 still has His law in the New Covenant

"Established on" indicates the foundation of the thing, not the things that make up the walls and roof. Yes, the foundation of the New Covenant is the better promises that are in Jesus Christ rather than the blood of sheep and goats. The Law was not the foundation of the Old Covenant, but was only the walls and roof. The Law changed completely from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant. We no longer have a separate priesthood (Levites). We no longer have daily, weekly, monthly, seasonal, or annual sacrifice of animal, grain, wine, oil, crops, etc. We are no longer required to make an annual pilgrimage to Jerusalem for the Passover and the other feasts. We are no longer forbidden from eating certain meats, or have other dietary restrictions. There are many more changes from the OT to the NT in terms of law. If God's law could not be changed at all, then Jesus does not qualify as a priest. Only the Levites were allowed to be priests, and only one of them could be High Priest. Jesus was not from the tribe of Levi; He was from the tribe of Judah, so He does not qualify to be our High Priest according to the Old Covenant. And during the Old Covenant (before His death) He was not the High Priest. But upon His death the covenant changed, and He was then qualified to be our High Priest under the New Covenant.

Heb 8:10 because God promised not to alter His Words, I think we should believe God at His Word. You need to prove where God said the Sabbath is no longer one of His commandments. The Sabbath is written all over the New Covenant so I am going to keep my faith in what He said.

As Scripture says, you need to be fully convinced in your own mind that the keeping of that day is required. And I need to be fully convinced in my own mind that the keeping of the day is not required. I don't have to convince you that I am right, and you don't have to convince me that you are right. We can both be right, but only for ourselves. You will have to stand before God and explain why you kept the day. I will have to stand before God and explain why I did not keep the day. But I am not your servant nor you mine. We are not accountable to each other for our keeping of God's commands (Heb 14:1-23).

Jesus said not a jot or tittle can pass from His law until ALL is fulfilled Mat 5:18 and not ALL has been fulfilled until Jesus comes in the clouds hence why breaking the least of these commandments and teaching others to affects our status in heaven Mat 5:18–19

Jesus' second coming is not a part of the Old Covenant. It was certainly prophesied during the Old Testament times, but it is not a law, requirement, or promise that requires fulfillment in the Old Covenant. It is a promise of the New Covenant. All of the requirements of the Old Covenant were fulfilled by Jesus before His death, and that is why He was able to say, "It is finished."

You claim the Sabbath is “old Covenant” but where is scripture to support this? Where does scripture say doing righteousness is bad, we no longer need to join ourselves to Christ, being His servant- no longer required, we no longer need His sanctification, where did God take away His Sabbath blessing. He didn’t. The Sabbath is still a commandment after the death of Jesus Luke 23:56, at the Cross He said It Is Finished, nothing could be changed or added to His covenant, it was ratified by His blood at His death. The Sabbath was kept according to the commandment after His death and Jesus never corrected anyone nor went back on His promise Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18-19 because we can trust Him.

As I have pointed out before, Jesus is now our sabbath rest. We don't have to wait for a certain day to enter into His rest. He is the rest for which we no longer need to wait. We can enter in "today".

Should we not believe Jesus own Words where He predicted His faithful would be keeping the Sabbath 40 years after His death Mat 24:20 and for eternity Isa 66:22-23 If we believe in Jesus we should believe what He said.

The Ten Commandments did not come in a unit of nine or one, they came in a unit of Ten numbered by God by design Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28 and if we are to even keep one of these commandments, we are to keep them all

That is why we should not be keeping them as "The Ten Commandments". That is part of the Old Covenant. But nine of those ten have been restated in the New Covenant, and so we should be keeping those nine as part of the New Covenant.
1) Do not worship any other gods (1 Corinthians 8:6; 1 Timothy 2:5)
2) Do not make idols (1 John 5:21)
3) Do not misuse the name of the Lord (1 Timothy 6:1)
5) Honor your father and your mother (Ephesians 6:1–2)
6) Do not murder (Romans 13:9; 1 Peter 4:15)
7) Do not commit adultery (1 Corinthians 6:9–10)
8) Do not steal (Ephesians 4:28)
9) Do not give false testimony (Revelation 21:8)
10) Do not covet (Colossians 3:5)
4) Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. (There are many references to the Sabbath day in the New Testament, including the assumption that Jews under the law in the time of Christ would be observing the Sabbath. But there is no direct or indirect command for believers in the church age to observe the Sabbath as a day of rest or of worship. In fact, Colossians 2:16 releases the believer from the Sabbath rule. Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, has become for us our Sabbath rest, according to Hebrews 4:1–11.)

Heb 4 says nothing about Jesus being our Sabbath- Jesus in His own Words say He is Lord of the Sabbath Mat 2:28, the Sabbath is the seventh day thus saith the Lord Exo 20:10, not that He is the Sabbath, the creation, day or commandment. Heb 4 is a direct quote from Heb 3:7-8 quoting David in Psa 95 and it says nothing about today being the Sabbath but says Today if we hear His voice, not to harden our hearts in rebellion to Him, which I recommend listening to. It’s best to just let the scripture quote Itself, it doesn’t need our help.

You miss the point of Heb 4. "Today" is the day to enter into the rest that God has set aside for us. "Today", not the seventh day, is the day to enter in to Christ Jesus, and receive the rest and peace that can only be found in Him. The seventh day is temporary, and a pale shadow of the "real" true rest found only in Jesus.
Col 2:16-17 - "Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."
Christ Jesus is the substance (the thing that casts the shadow), but the Passover, the sabbath, and all the other days, feasts, restrictions, etc. are all just the shadows, vapors and mists that are unreal, insubstantial, and of no real value.

 

[Doug Brents]

Doug Brents:

Let's go into the future in Isaiah 56: 1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil. 3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree. 4For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant; 6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; 7 even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Let's understand this, because The lord have not changed his ways. For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed (Malachi 3:6) or Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

This is a great example of taking a Biblical truth and twisting it into a lie. Jesus, being God, is indeed the same today, yesterday, and forever. That means that His character does not change. But that does not mean that He cannot change His mind. It does not mean that He will not turn from one plan to doing another thing. There are several examples of Him changing His mind, Scripture says He "repented", and doing something other than what He planned to do. We are also told that the Old Covenant was never intended to be a permanent covenant. God said He was going to establish a New Covenant in the future (Jer 31:31).

With this being said, let's understand that the Lord have put the Gentiles in power, and that the Lord have put the Israelites in captivity under the Gentiles, even to this day. Because the Gentiles run the world today, but not all the tribes are directly under the Gentiles.

Spiritually speaking, there is no longer Jew (Israel) nor Gentile. These terms have no relevance today (Gal 3:28, Eph 2:14-15).

The Lord don't change and the Bible have been given to man to follow instruction on how to serve the Lord. But Israel is under the Gentiles in Captivity and the Gentiles has come up with other doctrine and has cause confusion among the people. But didn't Paul say in Romans 3: 1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? What you fail to realize is that the Bible is one big book, from Genesis to Revelation, if the Sabbath day had changed, it would have been written that it changed, in the Old and the New Testament.

And I have pointed out to you the many places where we are told that the sabbath day is no longer relevant to the Christ follower. Yes, the whole book is one story, and the climax of the story is Christ. All of the OT points forward to Christ, and all of the NT points backward to Christ. He is the whole point of the story. And in Him the relevance of "Jew" and "Gentile" have lost all meaning. Today there are still two distinctions of people, and those distinctions are "Christ Follower" and "not Christ Follower". One is either a Christian or not, but Jew, Gentile, Greek, American, etc, have absolutely no relevance to righteousness.

Ample evidence from history shows that the celebration of Sunday originated from pagan practices of SUN WORSHIP. In March of 321 A.D., the Roman Emperor Constantine, who was at first a sun-worshiper and later a Christian convert, issued the first decree declaring Sunday to be a legal day of rest. In 336 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church officially changed the observance of Sabbath to Sunday for political and economic expediency. Since then, the original Sabbath gradually gave way to Sunday observance and the practice remains to this day.

The Catholic authorities proclaim: "The Bible says, 'Remember that thou keep holy the Sabbath day.' The Catholic Church says, No! By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day, and command you to keep the first day of the week. And lo, the entire civilized world bows down in reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church!" Father Enright, C.S.S.R. of the Redemptoral College, Kansas City, Mo., as taken from History of the Sabbath. pg. 802

All of that is historically interesting, but irrelevant. The Lord's Day is not synonymous with "sabbath". But the Lord's Day is the day in the New Covenant on which we are have examples of meeting, setting aside our tithe, and honoring God (Acts 20:7, 1 Cor 16:2, Rev 1:10). There are also examples of them meeting on sabbath with people (especially Jewish people) to teach and spread the Gospel. The Lord's Day is not the new sabbath, but neither is the seventh day still the sabbath. Jesus is the sabbath rest into which we must enter (Heb 4).

Let’s take a look and see what Jesus did when he came in the flesh, And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:14-16)

Great passage, but still a reference to what was required under the Old Covenant. Jesus lived His entire life under the Law of Moses (of which sabbath worship is a part). And the Law of Moses (which was given on Mt. Sinai) was completed and commanded to be cast out like Hagar was cast out by Abraham (Gal 4:21-31). But notice, Abraham did not keep sabbath, Issac did not keep sabbath, Jacob did not keep sabbath, Moses did not keep sabbath until he got Israel to Mt. Sinai.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

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That is why we should not be keeping them as "The Ten Commandments". That is part of the Old Covenant. But nine of those ten have been restated in the New Covenant, and so we should be keeping those nine as part of the New Covenant.
1) Do not worship any other gods (1 Corinthians 8:6; 1 Timothy 2:5)
2) Do not make idols (1 John 5:21)
3) Do not misuse the name of the Lord (1 Timothy 6:1)
5) Honor your father and your mother (Ephesians 6:1–2)
6) Do not murder (Romans 13:9; 1 Peter 4:15)
7) Do not commit adultery (1 Corinthians 6:9–10)
8) Do not steal (Ephesians 4:28)
9) Do not give false testimony (Revelation 21:8)
10) Do not covet (Colossians 3:5)
4) Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy. (There are many references to the Sabbath day in the New Testament, including the assumption that Jews under the law in the time of Christ would be observing the Sabbath. But there is no direct or indirect command for believers in the church age to observe the Sabbath as a day of rest or of worship. In fact, Colossians 2:16 releases the believer from the Sabbath rule. Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath, has become for us our Sabbath rest, according to Hebrews 4:1–11.)

You might say we don‘t need to keep God’s Ten Commandments, but it’s not what God said. There is no such thing as the nine commandments - God personally wrote and personally spoke Ten Commandments and its the only law God numbered by design Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 to say we are to keep only “nine” of these and forget the only commandment that God said to Remember and uses the words holy and blessed is illogical. The only commandment that reveals who wrote the Ten Commandments the God of Creation Exo 20:11 and contains God’s seal. It makes no sense, because its not true. Sounds like a similar teaching in the garden, that we can disobey God and live, when God said the opposite.

It’s sad that God has to repeat Himself as if God in the Old Testament is a different God in the New Testament. The Sabbath started at Creation in Eden Exo 20:11 Gen 2:1-3 God’s perfect plan before sin entered and continues in Eden for eternity thus saith thus Lord Isa 66:23. Thats some big shoes one is trying to countermand.

The Sabbath never ended in the NT. It didn’t end at the Cross, still a commandment Luke 23:56 and did not end decades after for God’s faithful Mat 24:20 thus saith the Lord. Jesus said the Sabbath was not made for Jew but made for man Mark 2:27 made for everyone Isa 56:6 thus saith the Lord. Theres a lot of thus saith the Lords one has to ignore all throughout the whole bible to come to the conclusion we can forget God’s Sabbath commandment, He said He changes not, and profaning the Sabbath is really profaning Him Eze 22:26 at least what Christ said in His own words, which we are told to live by Mat 4:4 instead of popular teachings of man. Mat 15:3-14

You miss the point of Heb 4. "Today" is the day to enter into the rest that God has set aside for us. "Today", not the seventh day, is the day to enter in to Christ Jesus, and receive the rest and peace that can only be found in Him. The seventh day is temporary, and a pale shadow of the "real" true rest found only in Jesus.

Yet no scripture say this. How many decades after the Cross was Hebrews written? Yet at the Cross He said: It Is Finished. Who are we to add or change His covenant, we are not God and either were the disciples, they were servants Rom 1:1 and a servant is never greater than their master. John 13:16 why the apostles observed everything Christ commanded them Mat 28:13 and the observed every Sabbath Acts 18:4 Acts 15:21

Hebrews 4 makes clear the Sabbath-rest (God’s seventh day) remains for God’s people Heb 4:9NIV

The rest in this verse literally translates into Sabbath keeping

sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: a sabbath rest
Usage: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Heb 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

Those who enter into His rest ALSO cease from his works as God did from His.

When did God rest from His works? This very passage tells us which is taking us back to when God spoke the Ten Commandments

Hebrews 4:44 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: (spoken at Mt Sinai Exo 20:1) “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”

Sorry this cannot be any clearer. Those who enter His rest ALSO cease from their works on the seventh day just as God did Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11 Heb 4:4 because man was made in the image of God to follow Him, not to do something different.

God’s people need God’s sanctification we cannot sanctify ourselves which is why only God can reverse His blessing Num 23:20 man cannot sanctify a day or sanctify ourselves, we need God Eze 20:12 Christ in His own words talks about those who try to sanctify themselves at His Second Coming Isa 66:17 because He never reversed His blessing but kept faithfully by His people- all of His commandments Rev 12:17 Rev 14:12 as they were never multiple choice or suggestions.

Col 2:16-17 - "Therefore, no one is to act as your judge in regard to food and drink, or in respect to a festival or a new moon, or a Sabbath day— 17 things which are only a shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ."
Christ Jesus is the substance (the thing that casts the shadow), but the Passover, the sabbath, and all the other days, feasts, restrictions, etc. are all just the shadows, vapors and mists that are unreal, insubstantial, and of no real value.

Sad, one of the most misused scripture. I’m with John Wesley on this one

This 'handwriting of ordinances' our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross. (Colossians 2: 14.) But the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away.... The moral law stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law. ...Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages.
—JOHN WESLEY, Sermons on Several Occasions, 2-Vol. Edition, Vol. I, pages 221, 222.

You seemed to have left out some of the context in this passage.

Paul has no authority to remove one of God’s commandments decades after the cross, opposite of what Jesus taught Mat 24:20 and to teach men to sin, which he doesn’t. We do have this stern warning about his writings that sadly many twist to their own destruction 2 Peter 3:16 teaching to disobey God is doing just that Rev 22:15 Mat 7:23 1 John 2:4 Mat 5:19

All of God’s commandments are Truth Psa 119:151 and we are only sanctified by His Truth John 17:17 and when we keep not His commandments there is no truth in us 1 John 2:4 and according to scripture that’s enough to keep one out of heaven Rev 22:15 unless we repent and uturn through Christ John 14:15-18

The context is in verse Col2:14KJV and Paul was very meticulous to be sure which sabbath he was referring to so one doesn’t erroneously forgot what God told us not to. This is about handwritten ordiances that were contrary and against. Does that describe how God defined His Sabbath? It was written by the finger of God- There is no Greater Authority, not even Paul is above God as many teach and according to God they are part of His Ten Commandments Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 He called My commandments Exo 20:6 Holy and blessed by God is not the definition of contrary and against, this points to an entirely different set of laws that has to do with food offerings, drink offerings, new moon offerings and sabbath(s) plural which some of the annual holy days were also sabbath(s) feasts the context of this passage that has nothing to do with any of the Ten Commandments but the yearly annual ordinances handwritten by Moses that were contrary and against outside the ark of the covenant as a witness against for breaking God’s Ten Commandments Deut 31:24-26. The Sabbath can’t be a shadow of anything as it was part of Creation - God’s perfect plan before sin and why Col 2:17 points to Heb 10 not Gen 2:1-3.

Anyway, I know I can’t convince you, thats not my job, but I would consider the Words of Jesus, If you love Me keep My commandments- the Sabbath is one of God’s commandments that didn‘t end before, or after the Cross according to Jesus. If we believe Jesus we should trust His teachings and following His example who also kept he Sabbath Luke 4:16 as He will only lead us on the narrow path that He says few find, back to reconciliation Rev 22:14 No wonder we are told to come our of our false teaching Rev 18:4 before its too late Rev 22:11

Guess we will have to agree to disagree and all will get sorted out soon enough. I do wish you well in seeking God’s Truth.

 

[Bro.T]

This is a great example of taking a Biblical truth and twisting it into a lie. Jesus, being God, is indeed the same today, yesterday, and forever. That means that His character does not change. But that does not mean that He cannot change His mind. It does not mean that He will not turn from one plan to doing another thing. There are several examples of Him changing His mind, Scripture says He "repented", and doing something other than what He planned to do. We are also told that the Old Covenant was never intended to be a permanent covenant. God said He was going to establish a New Covenant in the future (Jer 31:31).

Spiritually speaking, there is no longer Jew (Israel) nor Gentile. These terms have no relevance today (Gal 3:28, Eph 2:14-15).

And I have pointed out to you the many places where we are told that the sabbath day is no longer relevant to the Christ follower. Yes, the whole book is one story, and the climax of the story is Christ. All of the OT points forward to Christ, and all of the NT points backward to Christ. He is the whole point of the story. And in Him the relevance of "Jew" and "Gentile" have lost all meaning. Today there are still two distinctions of people, and those distinctions are "Christ Follower" and "not Christ Follower". One is either a Christian or not, but Jew, Gentile, Greek, American, etc, have absolutely no relevance to righteousness.

All of that is historically interesting, but irrelevant. The Lord's Day is not synonymous with "sabbath". But the Lord's Day is the day in the New Covenant on which we are have examples of meeting, setting aside our tithe, and honoring God (Acts 20:7, 1 Cor 16:2, Rev 1:10). There are also examples of them meeting on sabbath with people (especially Jewish people) to teach and spread the Gospel. The Lord's Day is not the new sabbath, but neither is the seventh day still the sabbath. Jesus is the sabbath rest into which we must enter (Heb 4).

Great passage, but still a reference to what was required under the Old Covenant. Jesus lived His entire life under the Law of Moses (of which sabbath worship is a part). And the Law of Moses (which was given on Mt. Sinai) was completed and commanded to be cast out like Hagar was cast out by Abraham (Gal 4:21-31). But notice, Abraham did not keep sabbath, Issac did not keep sabbath, Jacob did not keep sabbath, Moses did not keep sabbath until he got Israel to Mt. Sinai.

Now if Jesus is our master then we should follow His steps. (1 Peter 2:21) For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: And remember that Jesus is the captain of our salvation. So let’s see our captain lead by example. (Luke 4:14-16) (v.14) And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. (v.15) And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. (v.16) And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue (the church) on the Sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

Jesus regularly attended religious services on the Sabbath day "as His custom was". He obeyed His own command to meet (holy convocation) every Sabbath day. Apostle Paul's custom was to keep the Sabbath day. (Acts18:1, 4) (v.1) After these things Paul departed from Athens, and came to Corinth; (v.4) And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. Other evidence shows the early Church of God observed the Sabbath (Acts 13:13-15, 42, 44; 18:1, 4, 11).

Remember that it was Christ: (1Peter:2: 22) Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: Jesus did no sin. But what is sin? (1John:3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. So every time you break (transgress) one of God’s commandments you have committed sin. And one of those commandments is to: (Ex.20:8) Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. That’s why Jesus went to church on the seventh day; it is a sin to say that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath, because it is not Christ like! Just like it’s a sin to steal, kill, and commit adultery and so-forth. This is the day He would naturally have observed, because He originally made the Sabbath by resting and ordained that it be kept holy from that time forward. I’ve heard it said that you can praise the Lord any day and every day. Sure you can and you are supposed to. But you are commanded to set aside one day of the week that the Lord blessed, sanctified and made holy and that day is Saturday.

Still others have said every day is the Sabbath, then you are calling God a lie because He said that the seventh day was the Sabbath not every day. (Mat.15: 6-9) “Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.” (v.7) Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, (v.8) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. (v.9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Jesus said that you are worshipping Him in vain (for nothing) because you teach for doctrine the commandments of man. Sisters and brothers going to church on Sunday is a commandment of man (Emperor Constantine) not God. Jesus said: (John 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments. (1 John 1:2:1,3-4) My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

(v.3) And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. (v.4) He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. The only way to truly know that you know Jesus is to keep His commandments.

 

[Bro.T]

The Acts of the Apostles is the second book attributed to Luke, I believe written about 80-90 A.D., we now come to one of the most frequently quoted verses of Paul to support the false teaching of the sacredness of Sunday: (Acts: 20: 7) And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight. Now let’s take a close look at this verse and dissect it a little. Notice Paul continued his speech until midnight! It was after sunset, but prior to midnight. The first day of the week in biblical times did not begin at midnight, as men begin it today.

The Lord’s days begin and end at evening (sunset). (Gen. 1:5) And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first. All biblical days began and ended at sunset. Throughout the Roman world at that time, and for a few hundred years afterward, days began and ended at sunset. The practice of beginning the new day at midnight was started much later.

So this meeting, and Paul’s preaching, took place during the time that we now call Saturday night. Remember when dealing with the Lord’s days the evening comes first. If you read more than just that one verse you would see what actually happen. Paul’s companions were engaged in the labor of rowing and sailing a boat while Paul was preaching that Saturday night and early Sunday. They had set sail Saturday night, after the sabbath had ended. Paul remained behind for one more farewell sermon. Then at day break Sunday morning, Paul set afoot, walking from Tro’-as to As’-sos to meet the ship. So actually Paul left Sunday Morning, but this verse (Acts: 20:7) says nothing about a change of the Lord’s holy sabbath day. And the term “break bread” simply means to eat, so every time Paul ate he broke bread, search it out for your self, the bible tells you to; (1Thess. 5:21) Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.

 

[Doug Brents]

You might say we don‘t need to keep God’s Ten Commandments, but it’s not what God said. There is no such thing as the nine commandments - God personally wrote and personally spoke Ten Commandments and its the only law God numbered by design Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 to say we are to keep only “nine” of these and forget the only commandment that God said to Remember and uses the words holy and blessed is illogical. The only commandment that reveals who wrote the Ten Commandments the God of Creation Exo 20:11 and contains God’s seal. It makes no sense, because its not true. Sounds like a similar teaching in the garden, that we can disobey God and live, when God said the opposite.

There are six hundred and thirteen (613) individual laws in the Old Covenant. The first ten are similar to the Bill of Rights (the first ten amendments of the Constitution of the US). They are not separate from the rest, but are a brief overview of the kind of attitudes and way of life expressed in the rest of the laws. And ALL of the Old Covenant was set aside in place of the New Covenant. You cannot get rid of some (the sacrificial system and the national law) and keep some of it (the moral law). Every single jot and tittle of the Old Covenant was removed when it was fulfilled by Christ. And it was replaced by the New Covenant.

Yet no scripture say this. How many decades after the Cross was Hebrews written?

Hebrews was written sometime between 67 and 69 AD.

Yet at the Cross He said: It Is Finished. Who are we to add or change His covenant, we are not God and either were the disciples, they were servants Rom 1:1 and a servant is never greater than their master. John 13:16 why the apostles observed everything Christ commanded them Mat 28:13 and the observed every Sabbath Acts 18:4 Acts 15:21

Hebrews 4 makes clear the Sabbath-rest (God’s seventh day) remains for God’s people Heb 4:9NIV

Yes, there is a sabbath rest, but it is not the seventh day, it is Christ; He who rested is now the rest into which we must enter TODAY.

God’s people need God’s sanctification we cannot sanctify ourselves which is why only God can reverse His blessing Num 23:20 man cannot sanctify a day or sanctify ourselves, we need God Eze 20:12 Christ in His own words talks about those who try to sanctify themselves at His Second Coming Isa 66:17 because He never reversed His blessing but kept faithfully by His people- all of His commandments Rev 12:17 Rev 14:12 as they were never multiple choice or suggestions.

If, as you say, ALL of His commandments are still in effect, then you are obviously going to Jerusalem to make sacrifices in the Temple, and are assisted by the Levitical Priesthood in making those sacrifices, and are annually keeping all of the feasts there in Jerusalem. But wait, there is no Temple in Jerusalem, and there is not a single Jew alive who can show you his lineage back to Levi showing that he is a priest of God under the Old Covenant. So you cannot be making the proper sacrifices in the correct manner at the place where God placed His name and His Temple was built. HMMM. Seems like you are not keeping ALL of His commandments, which makes you a "Law breaker" (James 2:10), and are therefore guilty of breaking the whole of the Law.

But then, the Law was removed completely. There is no part of the Law of Moses/the Old Covenant that is binding or in effect today. So you are free from all of these commands, including sabbath keeping.

Sad, one of the most misused scripture. I’m with John Wesley on this one

This 'handwriting of ordinances' our Lord did blot out, take away, and nail to His cross. (Colossians 2: 14.) But the moral law contained in the Ten Commandments, and enforced by the prophets, He did not take away.... The moral law stands on an entirely different foundation from the ceremonial or ritual law. ...Every part of this law must remain in force upon all mankind and in all ages.
—JOHN WESLEY, Sermons on Several Occasions, 2-Vol. Edition, Vol. I, pages 221, 222.

John Wesley contradicts himself there. You quoted that he says that the moral law is separate from the ceremonial or ritual law, but then he says that EVERY part of the law must remain in force upon mankind. Scripture makes no distinction between the "moral" part of the Law and the "ceremonial or ritual" part of the Law. It is just "the Law". This is just your attempt to make a distinction so that you can keep part of the Law and get rid of the parts you don't like and can no longer keep. No, God removed ALL of the Law, the ceremonial, ritual, AND the moral parts of the Law when He instituted the New Covenant Law.

The context is in verse Col2:14KJV and Paul was very meticulous to be sure which sabbath he was referring to so one doesn’t erroneously forgot what God told us not to. This is about handwritten ordiances that were contrary and against. Does that describe how God defined His Sabbath? It was written by the finger of God- There is no Greater Authority, not even Paul is above God

Who is the author of Scripture? Was Paul the author of Colossians, or Romans, or 2 Corinthians? Did John author Revelation, or the Gospel of John? Was James the author of the book that bears his name? NO!!! None of these "MEN" were the authors. They put pen to paper, but it is God who authored what they wrote. Paul is not the one telling us that the Old Covenant was removed. GOD IS!!!!!!!! And Col 2:14 is not the only place where we are told that the whole of the Old Covenant was removed. There are several places where we are told this: Gal 4:21-5:6 is very clear and concise on this.

as many teach and according to God they are part of His Ten Commandments Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 He called My commandments Exo 20:6 Holy and blessed by God is not the definition of contrary and against, this points to an entirely different set of laws that has to do with food offerings, drink offerings, new moon offerings and sabbath(s) plural which some of the annual holy days were also sabbath(s) feasts the context of this passage that has nothing to do with any of the Ten Commandments but the yearly annual ordinances handwritten by Moses that were contrary and against outside the ark of the covenant as a witness against for breaking God’s Ten Commandments Deut 31:24-26. The Sabbath can’t be a shadow of anything as it was part of Creation - God’s perfect plan before sin and why Col 2:17 points to Heb 10 not Gen 2:1-3.

So you contradict Scripture to keep your personal ideas? Col 2:16-17 is very clear that the sabbath is a shadow of what was to come, and that Christ is the substance that was to come that casts that shadow. And it is not talking about some man made ordinances or some different set of laws that deal with food, drink, new moons, and sabbaths. This is God's Law given at Mt Sinai. That is the Law that was against us. That was the Law that was set aside in favor of the freedom that is in Christ.

Anyway, I know I can’t convince you, thats not my job, but I would consider the Words of Jesus, If you love Me keep My commandments- the Sabbath is one of God’s commandments that didn‘t end before, or after the Cross according to Jesus. If we believe Jesus we should trust His teachings and following His example who also kept he Sabbath Luke 4:16 as He will only lead us on the narrow path that He says few find, back to reconciliation Rev 22:14 No wonder we are told to come our of our false teaching Rev 18:4 before its too late Rev 22:11

Guess we will have to agree to disagree and all will get sorted out soon enough. I do wish you well in seeking God’s Truth.

On this we can agree to disagree, because God says that on this we can both be right if we are both convinced in our own hearts that we are doing what God commanded, as I have said a couple of times before. My point being that you are sinning if you tell me that I am wrong for not keeping the sabbath. I am not your servant, nor am I answerable to you. You are not my servant and you are not answerable to me. If you want to keep the sabbath then do so, but do so in honor of God. I do not keep the sabbath, and I do not keep it in honor of God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There are six hundred and thirteen (613) individual laws in the Old Covenant.

Where is that number in scripture? Do you have a verse?

As I stated God numbered only one set of law by design Exo 34:28 Deut 4:13 and called them "My commandments' and 'My covenant" and He would not edit His Words Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18 No where in scripture says we can disobey God's commandments Exo 20:6 or covenant initially written on stone, now written on tablets of the heart, kept by God's faithful until the end Rev 22:14 Rev 22:15. Its not up to us to decide God's commandments, because we are not God.

Isa 56 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

God's justice and righteousness are everlasting. Keeping the Sabbath is doing justice and righteousness thus saith the Lord.

By the time Christ comes all decisions will have been made and our fates sealed

Rev 22:11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him [a]be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

Man does not get to define the Sabbath because man is not God. God wrote and spoke these Words and no one is above God to change one jot or tittle.
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

Which did not change decades after as shown Hebrews4:4. The apostles keeping every Sabbath Acts 18:4 does not translates into the apostles kept every Sabbath Jesus, or Jesus predicting decades after the Cross I hope your flight is not on the Sabbath Jesus Mat 24:20 or from one Sabbath Jesus to another all flesh (saints) will worship before Jesus Isa 66:23, which is why Jesus never turned into a day or a commandment and said He is Lord OF the Sabbath the Creator, not that He is the Sabbath, the creation. Best not to add to what is not there because it changes the context and its no longer God's pure Word, but our word which is not sanctifying.

If one feels we are exempt from one of these commandments, the one God said to Remember- guess the world will find out soon enough. I would not want to be wrong, we need to have room for faith in thus saith the Lord.