The Church started in the wilderness

[BeyondET]

The ten commandments was created for a pathway to salvation. Today Christ is that pathway to salvation.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Do you believe Jesus created the Sabbath?

And is Jesus the Lord of the Sabbath?

I believe He wants people to enter His rest and not just for a day.

His rest is not the Sabbath rest,

The Sabbath rest is according to the commandment Luke 23:56 which God said is the seventh day Exo 20:10

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The ten commandments was created for a pathway to salvation. Today Christ is that pathway to salvation.

Christ said, if you love Me keep My commandments- breaking or teaching others to break the least of these commandments one would be least in Heaven Mat 5:19 so not something we should do.

God's law is not contrary to God. God's law is a reflection of God's character that we need to become like. Disobedience to God's law is what separated man from God Isa 59:2. Following the sample example of disobedience is not how we enter into Christ's salvation rest. Heb 4:6 Heb 4:11

 

[BeyondET]

Christ said, if you love Me keep My commandments- breaking or teaching others to break the least of these commandments one would be least in Heaven Mat 5:19 so not something we should do.

God's law is not contrary to God. God's law is a reflection of God's character that we need to become like. Disobedience to God's law is what separated man from God Isa 59:2. Following the sample example of disobedience is not how we enter into Christ's salvation rest. Heb 4:6 Heb 4:11

Can you name the commandments of Christ.

I'll give you one here below, they are not the ten commandments, which demands perfect that no one can do except Jesus.

john 3:7
You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again."

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Can you name the commandments of Christ.

I'll give you one here below, they are not the ten commandments, which demands perfect that no one can do except Jesus.

john 3:7
You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again."

Christ is God and Gods Ten Commandments are His commandments Exo 20:6 They were written by His own finger Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16

 

[BeyondET]

Christ is God and Gods Ten Commandments are His commandments Exo 20:6 They were written by His own finger Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16

So you don't think there's a commandment that you must be born again?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So you don't think there's a commandment that you must be born again?

That wasn't what was stated. You stated the Ten Commandments is not Christs laws and scripture states otherwise.

The only way we can keep God's commandments is if we are born again- dead to sin (so one would be keeping God's law) reborn in newness in Christ. Rom 6:1-6 He is the one who enables us to keep His commandments John 14:15-18

I don't think we are going to agree on the scriptures and that's ok, I am happy leaving it with agree to disagree and all gets sorted out soon enough.

I do wish you well in seeking Truth to God's Word.

 

[BeyondET]

That wasn't what was stated. You stated the Ten Commandments is not Christs laws and scripture states otherwise.

The only way we can keep God's commandments is if we are born again- dead to sin (so one would be keeping God's law) reborn in newness in Christ. Rom 6:1-6 He is the one who enables us to keep His commandments John 14:15-18

I don't think we are going to agree on the scriptures and that's ok, I am happy leaving it with agree to disagree and all gets sorted out soon enough.

I do wish you well in seeking Truth to God's Word.

I wish you well as well

 

[JulieB67]

In this passage, Jesus emphasizes that the core of the commandments can be expressed through two fundamental principles: loving God with all one’s being and loving one’s neighbour as oneself. These commandments show that love is the foundation upon which all other laws and teachings are built.

Yes, love is certainly the foundation I agree. Someone posted this verse on another thread that I hadn't read in awhile and it really lifted me up yesterday which I needed. I'll post it again for everyone


I John 4:7 "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God."

Sorry if I've offended anyone on this subject (I'm looking at you SB ) I really only want to engage in honest discussions from the Word of God- traditions of men aside. I know we all have different beliefs on this subject but I also believe that God knows our hearts and minds and that we all are seeking to please him.

I'm taking a break from this board- real life is calling lol.

Take care everyone

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sorry if I've offended anyone on this subject (I'm looking at you SB )

All is good. But thank you.

I wish you nothing but the best.

 

[Aaron112]

Let’s go into the future and see what the Lord expects in the future concerning his Sabbaths. Let turn to Isaiah 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed. 56:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.

Likewise the purpose not to shut down the sunday (note pagan name and pagan practices dedicated first to foreign gods) services,
but , as it will be, to shut down the pagan practices - in God's Time. For now, "come out of those pagan practices My people" ) .....
And it looks like those opposed to the truth about Shabbat, have been seeing, or first saw, the errors, or what they thought were errors, or they were accosted or hurt by (some sabbath promoters), not realizing the truth that those errors were not God's Way, and there are few who are obeying Jesus Today Anywhere, and honoring Jesus means honoring the Shabbat always.

 

[Aaron112]

Sorry if I've offended anyone on this subject (I'm looking at you SB ) I really only want to engage in honest discussions from the Word of God- traditions of men aside. I know we all have different beliefs on this subject but I also believe that God knows our hearts and minds and that we all are seeking to please him.

Those abiding in Christ have His thoughts. Some are still struggling as He Permits to be free from greek , gentile, and pagan influences that are whole-heartedly part of christendom starting in the first 3 cen turies.
No, also realize, it is not true that "we all are seeking to please him" - you won't find this online.

 

[Aaron112]

Paul always taught on all levels. He became all things to all people so he could bring them to the Lord.

None of the messengers of God ever taught anyone to disregard Shabbat, ever, no, not once.

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Yes, love is certainly the foundation I agree. Someone posted this verse on another thread that I hadn't read in awhile and it really lifted me up yesterday which I needed. I'll post it again for everyone


I John 4:7 "Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God."

Sorry if I've offended anyone on this subject (I'm looking at you SB ) I really only want to engage in honest discussions from the Word of God- traditions of men aside. I know we all have different beliefs on this subject but I also believe that God knows our hearts and minds and that we all are seeking to please him.

I'm taking a break from this board- real life is calling lol.

Take care everyone

I do respect your opinions but for me there is only one truth and that is the one I seek and found, the word of God and of his beloved son Jesus, our Savior.

John 14:6 (KJV), reads:
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me."

Blessings

 

[Bro.T]

Likewise the purpose not to shut down the sunday (note pagan name and pagan practices dedicated first to foreign gods) services,
but , as it will be, to shut down the pagan practices - in God's Time. For now, "come out of those pagan practices My people" ) .....

You see, in the Council of Trent (1545 A.D.), the church leaders ruled that "tradition" is of as great authority as the Bible! They believed that God had given them the authority to change the Bible any way they pleased. By "tradition" they meant human teachings.


The sun was the main god of the heathen even back as far as ancient Babylon. Since they worshiped the sun on Sunday, the compromising church leaders could see that if they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday, it would accomplish several things. Number one - it would separate them from the Jews who were hated by many of the Romans and who, along with Jesus, And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:16), had been worshiping on Saturday from the beginning (and still do today). Number two - it would make it much easier for the pagans to come into the church if the Christians met on the same day that the pagan world did.


It worked well. Pagans flocked in by the thousands. Satan's plan of compromise was doing its baleful work. The change was attempted gradually but many of the true hearted, loyal Christians were alarmed. They came to the leaders and wanted to know why they had dared tamper with the law of Almighty God! The church leaders knew this would happen - and they had an answer ready. It's a masterpiece. If a person doesn't know the bible well it sounds good.

The people were told that the were worshiping on Sunday now because Jesus rose from the dead on that day.


There's not even one verse in the Bible that tells us to do this, but that's what they were told. Isn't it amazing! Maybe you've even heard that yourself!

When we look in the future the Bible say in Revelation 18: 1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies. 4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

This is when Sunday will be fully shut down, but if we continue to preach the gospel we can get people to come out of her now.

And it looks like those opposed to the truth about Shabbat, have been seeing, or first saw, the errors, or what they thought were errors, or they were accosted or hurt by (some sabbath promoters), not realizing the truth that those errors were not God's Way, and there are few who are obeying Jesus Today Anywhere, and honoring Jesus means honoring the Shabbat always.

That's right!

 

[Bro.T]

The Sabbath has nothing to do with going to church regardless whether it be Saturday or Sunday. We should be worshipping and honoring God everyday just as our rest should be in Christ 24/7.

Let’s take a look and see what Jesus did when he came in the flesh, And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about. And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. (Luke 4:14-16)


Jesus made it clear that the seventh day was made for mankind. (Mark 2:27-28) (v.27) And he said unto them, The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath: Do we understand that, the Sabbath was made for us, not us for the Sabbath. (v.28) Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the Sabbath. The Son of man (Jesus) is the Lord God of the seventh day Sabbath (Saturday). (Ex.31:16-17) (v.16) Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, to observe the Sabbath throughout their generations, for a perpetual covenant. (v.17) It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed. You see that the Sabbath day is a sign between God and His people forever. Israel was His people then and whoever chooses to obey Him now are His people. God intended for the weekly Sabbath (this word means rest in Hebrew) to be a refreshing blessing for mankind. God knew that human beings would need periodic rest and change from work. But the purpose for keeping God's Sabbath goes far beyond simply resting on that day.


The Biblical Sabbath, however, is and has always been on the seventh day of the week, or Saturday. Despite the prevalence of Sunday worship in Christendom, we must look to the Bible as our authority and keep the seventh day Sabbath ordained by God. And don’t let some unlearned false preacher deceive you. The Sabbath of the Lord has, and will always be the seventh day of the week (sunset Friday to sunset Saturday) and has not been changed. I know that some will say, well we don’t know if the seventh day in Jesus time is the same seventh day now. Well the bible says: (Mat 28:1) In the end of the Sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. Now this proves that in Jesus day when the Sabbath (Saturday) ended the first day of the week (Sunday) began. Guess what? In our day when the seventh day ends the first day of the week begins, no change!

 

[Dan Perez]

I never said it did. You brought creation into the mix.

Ok, I'll play your game. There is no scripture that states the rest is called the gospel. There is no scripture that states the rest is creation but that doesn't stop you does it? I'm starting to think you make this stuff up as you go along.

Where are the scriptures for those, just those, you don't have to post anything that doesn't have to do with just those verses pointing out those facts.

Where is the scripture that states the rest is called the gospel?

Where is the scripture that states the rest is creation?

There are scriptures though that pertain to His rest and that's the rest that remains that we enter into as noted by Hebrews 4. We are not just pulling it out of nowhere like you are doing.


I've already posted why there is no scripture calling him that which you ignored. That's what most of my post was about surrounding that very issue.

# 1 In Mark 2:28 is written , Therefore the Son of man is Lord of Sabbath


# 2 In Col 2:16 says , Therefore , do NOT //ME , is a DISJUNCATIVE NEGATIVE , Neverrrrrrrrrrrrr let anyone judge you in eating

or in drinking or in REPECT of a feast day or a new moon OR Sabbaths !!

And there is NO GREEK word for CHURCH // EKKLESIA M , means EK , means OUT OF AND KLESIS means a CALLING .

/

dan p

 

[JulieB67]

# 2 In Col 2:16 says , Therefore , do NOT //ME , is a DISJUNCATIVE NEGATIVE , Neverrrrrrrrrrrrr let anyone judge you in eating

or in drinking or in REPECT of a feast day or a new moon OR Sabbaths !!

I'm not sure why you're posting this to me. I agree with this.

 

[JulieB67]

The Biblical Sabbath, however, is and has always been on the seventh day of the week,

Agree with this. And I don't believe that Sunday became the new Sabbath. I've never posted anything to that nature.

I just believe that Sabbatimos remains, not Sabbaton. I've already explained why so at this point it's not going to matter to you or anyone else. We will most likely go on believing as we have. I like to think I have an open mind. That's why I quit my church because of being indoctrinated with such beliefs as the false pretrib rapture, etc. If I saw anything that would lead me to believe I'm reading Paul's teachings on the subject wrong I would certainly consider but he's pretty all inclusive on the subject and I try and fit that context with his other teachings as well.

I know that some will say, well we don’t know if the seventh day in Jesus time is the same seventh day now

Might be hard to pinpoint the original 7th day from when it was first started with the different calendars over the years that have been used.

No, also realize, it is not true that "we all are seeking to please him" - you won't find this online.

I'm not generalizing everyone online that calls themselves a Christian. I was just speaking of the few that had been involved in the recent discussion. I realize though that I can really only speak for myself regardless of whether someone shares my beliefs are not. I only want the truth, not traditions of men that make void that that truth.

That's why I left the church years ago. Too many false doctrines and traditions of men that have nothing to do with the Word of God. It's left me very wary of most churches today.

and pagan influences

Many pagan influences have infiltrated the Churches. Easter being a big one. No such thing. We all know that it's Pascha/Passover. Most of the names of our days of the week have origins in Paganism as well. It's everywhere. We are to come out of all that confusion/babel.

None of the messengers of God ever taught anyone to disregard Shabbat, ever, no, not once.

Again, I only can go with scripture. It's very telling to me that after Acts when Paul and others are seeking out mostly Jews on the Sabbath and some Gentiles, there is only more more time the Sabbath is even mentioned. Which we know to be Col 2:16
And what other day would Christ and others teach? That's a non work day and would draw the biggest crowds. I don't believe teaching or traveling on those days is any indication they were keeping or observing them after Acts. You and others believe otherwise. And there was certainly no instructions to the Gentiles in Acts to or how to observe it.

You claim that no one ever taught anyone to disregard but no one after Christ taught anyone to regard it as well. We only have Paul's teachings on the subject. And I believe the author of Hebrews 4 chapter paints a different picture than you and others believe. I believe Sabbatimos of verse 9 is a different rest than Sabbaton.
So again, I can only go by my beliefs regarding the context of that chapter. His rest starts the subject and His rest ends the subject-When we enter that rest we cease from our works as God did his. That is the example and that is the rest that we labor to enter into. Sabbaton/the weekly rest is not mentioned.
And the lack of teaching of the 7th day Sabbath in the NT after Acts again speaks volumes to me.

Someone stated it would not have to be repeated but I believe it would have to be to the Gentile churches that Paul set up if it was so important. He was very big on church conduct, etc. And he did teach that we are not to judge others about the holydays along with Sabbath days. When I see those words, I go to the Greek and the holydays are the festival/feast days and the Sabbath days are the weekly repose days. So again, I have to go with the scriptures are telling me which ties to his other teachings in Romans and Galatians. I try and take the Word as a whole. But when Paul states that both the feast days and the weekly repose days are a shadow of things to come. I choose to believe that. He is a chosen vessel. Peter and others are silent as well on the subject after Christ. I believe that Christ's rest fulfills the 4th commandment. It boils down to rest period. Which basically means to stop, cease and rest from our work. The original was made for man. God we know never needed rest. He just sets the example of stopping and ceasing from work. But it only a shadow of things to come with the fullness of the rest we find in Christ.

Hebrews 4:9 "There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God."
Hebrews 4:10 "For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from His."
Hebrews 4:11 "Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, least any man fall after the same example of unbelief."

It's all about His rest, not Sabbaton, the day of weekly rest. That is not the rest that remains and it's not the rest we labor to enter into.


I've stated these beliefs numerous times and I realize it's pointless to repeat them now but no one has shown me any proof to believe otherwise just as I obviously hadn't shown anyone to believe otherwise as well. So I will most likely move on...

 

[Aaron112]

Many pagan influences have infiltrated the Churches. Easter being a big one. No such thing. We all know that it's Pascha/Passover. Most of the names of our days of the week have origins in Paganism as well. It's everywhere. We are to come out of all that confusion/babel.

The assembly of believers was corrupted by/at the time of/ constant ine. Today, few churches are not corrupted and unable to save anyone.
It is sheer remarkable infinite grace in Jesus that anyone has come out of babylon to follow Jesus. Some think they do, yet are sidetracked by human stuff.