The husband of our vice president is telling men to "step up" to defend the right to kill a child. Real men will see through this evil charade.

[Hammster]

I think there are many religious people that want Sex education removed from schools. That want many contraceptive methods outlawed.
Some even want IVF outlawed.

Okay. But that’s a different discussion. Your post had to do with right now.

 

[RileyG]

Okay. But that’s a different discussion. Your post had to do with right now.

The entire “they don’t want comprehensive sex education” is a straw man.

 

[stevil]

The entire “they don’t want comprehensive sex education” is a straw man.

No, It's just pointing out that there are other ways to reduce abortions, rather than just outlawing them

 

[stevil]

Having very strong desires doesn’t mean they should act on them.

Saying “I can’t control myself” isn’t an excuse.

Although I understand where you are coming from.

Should's and ought's are one thing
But what people actually do is something different.

We, as a society need to accept what people actually do, and work with that.
If you believe strongly in your shoulds and oughts then you can promote that. Like send out pamphlets, advertise, send your messages around on social media. Try to convince people that your view of shoulds and oughts will become their view of shoulds and oughts. They will then choose not to have abortions. Maybe they will choose not to have sex out of marriage and not to have sex before they are ready to have children.
But I think that is a very hard sell. Most people will have sex out of marriage and especially before they are ready to have children. It's just the way it is.

 

[NxNW]

I don’t want to tell a woman what she can do with her body as long as she doesn’t use her body to murder or harm someone. What I do want is equal protection under the law.

Equal protection means the unborn lacks the right to attach itself to the woman without permission, and therefore she has the right to remove it just as a landlord can evict a squatter.

 

[stevil]

The fer

Equal protection means the unborn lacks the right to attach itself to the woman without permission, and therefore she has the right to remove it just as a landlord can evict a squatter.

The fertilised egg isn't a citizen, it has no legal rights.

 

[Yttrium]

Amen! The baby inside her body is NOT her body. Period.

Right. However, we have a principle in our society that we're not required to offer any part of our body to keep another individual alive. You aren't required to donate an organ or blood to keep someone alive even if that someone is your own child. So, the argument becomes that you shouldn't be able to make the mother donate some of her body to keep a fetus/embryo alive.

Personally, I consider this to be a very persuasive argument, and it makes it hard for me to argue against abortions.

 

[RileyG]

Right. However, we have a principle in our society that we're not required to offer any part of our body to keep another individual alive. You aren't required to donate an organ or blood to keep someone alive even if that someone is your own child. So, the argument becomes that you shouldn't be able to make the mother donate some of her body to keep a fetus/embryo alive.

Personally, I consider this to be a very persuasive argument, and it makes it hard for me to argue against abortions.

The unborn child did nothing wrong. He or she doesn’t deserve to die.

 

[RileyG]

Should's and ought's are one thing
But what people actually do is something different.

We, as a society need to accept what people actually do, and work with that.
If you believe strongly in your shoulds and oughts then you can promote that. Like send out pamphlets, advertise, send your messages around on social media. Try to convince people that your view of shoulds and oughts will become their view of shoulds and oughts. They will then choose not to have abortions. Maybe they will choose not to have sex out of marriage and not to have sex before they are ready to have children.
But I think that is a very hard sell. Most people will have sex out of marriage and especially before they are ready to have children. It's just the way it is.

That still doesn’t justify abortion. If they can’t control themselves, that’s their own fault. No one is the victim here. People need to take responsibility BEFORE the child is conceived.

 

[RileyG]

No, It's just pointing out that there are other ways to reduce abortions, rather than just outlawing them

Ok. Fair enough, that’s your view.

 

[NxNW]

The fertilised egg isn't a citizen, it has no legal rights.

I agree, but my argument regardless of citizenship or human status.

 

[RileyG]

Equal protection means the unborn lacks the right to attach itself to the woman without permission, and therefore she has the right to remove it just as a landlord can evict a squatter.

Without permission? Lol, No.

It’s biology.

That’s how new life works.

 

[stevil]

That still doesn’t justify abortion. If they can’t control themselves, that’s their own fault. No one is the victim here. People need to take responsibility BEFORE the child is conceived.

That's one way of looking at it.
But there is an opportunity to have an abortion. and it is up to the pregnant woman to decide. She is the one that gets to decide what the justification is. Actually she really doesn't even have to justify it to anyone. She just needs to tell the doctor that she wants the abortion.

It's her decision.

If you religious people are right. If there is an all knowing, all powerful god, then I guess that god can dish out perfect justice in the afterlife.
No need for our governments to put in an imperfect law and punishment when god can do it so much better.

 

[RileyG]

That's one way of looking at it.
But there is an opportunity to have an abortion. and it is up to the pregnant woman to decide. She is the one that gets to decide what the justification is. Actually she really doesn't even have to justify it to anyone. She just needs to tell the doctor that she wants the abortion.

It's her decision.

If you religious people are right. If there is an all knowing, all powerful god, then I guess that god can dish out perfect justice in the afterlife.
No need for our governments to put in an imperfect law and punishment when god can do it so much better.

Nope. Nope. Nope.

It’s not about religion.

It’s about LIFE.

It’s disgusting abortion for any reason became legal in the first place. No one has a right to kill someone just because they’re unwanted and inconvenient.

Selfish and evil.

 

[Hammster]

Equal protection means the unborn lacks the right to attach itself to the woman without permission, and therefore she has the right to remove it just as a landlord can evict a squatter.

No, it means you can’t execute them without due process.

 

[Yttrium]

The unborn child did nothing wrong. He or she doesn’t deserve to die.

Neither does a teen who needs a kidney and can't get one because nobody volunteers to donate in time. It doesn't change the argument.

 

[RileyG]

Neither does a teen who needs a kidney and can't get one because nobody volunteers to donate in time. It doesn't change the argument.

Except the couple chose to have sex and someone else was conceived. It’s not about the mother.

 

[stevil]

Nope. Nope. Nope.

It’s not about religion.

It’s about LIFE.

It’s disgusting abortion for any reason became legal in the first place. No one has a right to kill someone just because they’re unwanted and inconvenient.

Selfish and evil.

I have no problems with people having abortions. I do have problems with government forcing people not to have abortions.
I think govt should let people make their own decisions. Govt should instead focus on infrastructure like roads, schools, hospitals, healthcare, economy, that sort of stuff.

 

[RileyG]

I have no problems with people having abortions. I do have problems with government forcing people not to have abortions.
I think govt should let people make their own decisions. Govt should instead focus on infrastructure like roads, schools, hospitals, healthcare, economy, that sort of stuff.

Using the same logic, I can say I have no problem with people robbing banks, I have problems with government forcing people not to rob banks.

Would my view be valid?

Wrong is still wrong.

 

[stevil]

Using the same logic, I can say I have no problem with people robbing banks, I have problems with government forcing people not to rob banks.

Would my view be valid?

Wrong is still wrong.

No, that's very different.
For the economy to thrive, we can't have people going around robbing banks. That would destroy the economy.