The husband of our vice president is telling men to "step up" to defend the right to kill a child. Real men will see through this evil charade.

[Hammster]

I’m not sure I follow, so please forgive me. So you’re saying because he decided abortion is fine to be kicked back as a decision for the states, that gets him a pass on needing a thread for the evil he advocates by his free for all plan for IVF and the lives that discards?

You also believe that Trump, who has been the defcato figurehead and leader of the pro life advocating Republican Party is somehow ignorant on the moral issue IVF poses? You think no one in his party or cabinet or advisory capacity raised that with him as an issue in the past 8 years? That when they all sat down recently to agree their policy platform, which now includes a commitment to fully covered IVF, no one would have raised this with him as a point for consideration?

Be honest. You aren’t looking for clarity.

 

[Hammster]

Abortion is a social problem with an inherently different set of psychological and interpersonal nuances than pedophilia. So, let's not conflate apples with oranges here, all the while displacing the difference with the fact that both fruits fail to be light-bulbs.

They are both sins against children. I assumed that you thought so. Maybe I am wrong.

 

[o_mlly]

This is an admission that for awhile, it's not a human being.

Your inference is illogical. If one is ignorant then one does not know if the living being is, or is not, a human being.

This contradicts the first point, that it's not a human being.

No, P2 does not contradict P1. If you think that it does, kindly offer your logic to claim so.

Conclusion is not valid, since the first two points contradicted themselves.

No. The conclusion follows from P1 and P2 which do not contradict each other.

 

[o_mlly]

Failed with me, perhaps work on it.

No surprise.

The rights of the woman to her body supersedes those of the ...

... child which is not her body.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

They are both sins against children. I assumed that you thought so. Maybe I am wrong.

Of course they're both sins. So at this point, how about I simply agree with the pertinent part of your OP in saying that, like you, I think anyone who says men should step up to defend a latitudinarian right of abortion is anti-Christian.

If anything, I'd instead say that men need to "step up" by not contributing their sexual prowess to the eventuality of abortion.

 

[o_mlly]

You're free to believe whatever you like about the morality of abortion. And to not have one, if you don't want one.

And the same for every other individual.

-- A2SG, but only the pregnant woman herself gets to make her own decision about it....

Do you know why some do not restrain the woman's right to abortion even as the child is transiting her birth canal?

 

[rubyshoes]

Be honest. You aren’t looking for clarity.

Oh I am. But silence to a question is often an answer in itself, so don’t trouble yourself too hard

 

[2PhiloVoid]

No surprise.

... child which is not her body.

I think the real problem here is that women fail to remember that a man's penis also isn't a part of a woman's body. Apparently, politicians are now wanting men to fail to remember this as well .......................

 

[Desk trauma]

No surprise.

... child which is not her body.

It’s making use of it hence why I said her rights come first.

 

[o_mlly]

I think the real problem here is that women fail to remember that a man's penis also isn't a part of a woman's body.

I assume that you exclude those women married to men from your insight.
Genesis 2:24
Matthew 19:5
Mark 10:8
Ephesians 5:31

 

[o_mlly]

It’s making use of it hence why I said her rights come first.

Your logic would allow mothers the right to murder their children who are dependent on their mother for survival. True?

 

[Pommer]

I think every living breathing human being should not be executed without due process.

I agree.

 

[Desk trauma]

Your logic would allow mothers the right to murder their children who are dependent on their mother for survival. True?

No.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

I assume that you exclude those women married to men from your insight.
Genesis 2:24
Matthew 19:5
Mark 10:8
Ephesians 5:31

As a fellow Christian, I think you know what I'm saying on a biological and moral level............and the best part is, so do those who aren't yet Christian.

But for those out there who need an interpretation, I simply mean: BE RESPONSIBLE WITH YOUR BODY and STOP BEING SEXUALLY IGNORANT!!

Y'know? I bet if folks began doing things God's way, illegitimate pregnancies and the abortions that so often go with them, would likely decrease by quite a bit.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It's not so much sexual ignorance as it is that people want to have sex without the baggage of marriage and don't want to take the reasonability of protection.

... that's essentially what I mean by sexual ignorance. I think it's a fairly ignorant thing to run through life with a Hefnarian style Philosophy stuck in one's head.

Telling people to simply do things God's way without a repentant heart would just lead to a lot of spouses killing each other after someone forgot to take out the trash or didn't pay for the kitchen to be remodeled.

I'm already on the same page with you in all of this, Darktriad, as my history on CF should surely show.

 

[Hammster]

Oh I am. But silence to a question is often an answer in itself, so don’t trouble yourself too hard

Okay.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Hammster, since one of the biggest deterrents to abortion is the gaining of Faith in Christ, maybe we could focus more on helping people see the truth in Christ rather than overly lambasting and/or criminalizing those who advocate for abortion and don't yet know Him?

That would be rather hard to demonstrate, especially since measuring "faith" is tricky. As I recall from years past, surveys of American women showed that the rates of birth control use and abortion are not different in Catholic women from the larger population. Catholics make a good group to check against because they are large and there have been decades of very prominent preaching against both from the pulpit.

Things may have drifted a bit more recently with the large changes in religious identifications, especially millenials and gen-zers leaving religion for ideological reasons. The next controlling question is if political ideology affect abortion rates. Do Democratic women have a higher abortion rate than Republican women.

 

[Hans Blaster]

I think every living breathing human being should not be executed without due process.

Good news for you then. Fetuses don't breathe. They get oxygen and remove carbon dioxide through their placentas.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Is it really ignorant or just taking the hand past generations dealt them since so many people are corrupted now they can't find a trust worthy spouse.

It's more than either of these alone, really. But of course, The Screwtape Project always has been more than these ..........................

 

[2PhiloVoid]

That would be rather hard to demonstrate, especially since measuring "faith" is tricky.

It's really not all that tricky since we all know that the "No True Scotmans Fallacy" is really an appeal to various level of denial regarding what is stated in the New Testament. So, I'm sticking with my assertion.