SALVATION

[Clare73]

If I change my mind, that's a free choice. If someone else causes me to change my mind, without my consent, it's not even me, let alone my choice, anymore. Simple logic, and scriptural.

You are not using the terms of the discussion, you are using your own terms, which are irrelevant to the discussion.

 

[fhansen]

You are not using the terms of the discussion, you are using your own terms, which are irrelevant to the discussion.

Well, I don't know if I'm using your terms or not but my words are certainly pertinent to what's being discussed.

 

[Clare73]

Well, I don't know if I'm using your terms or not but my words are certainly pertinent to what's being discussed.

Not if you don't agree on the meaning of free will.

 

[setst777]

setst777 said:
The "new birth into eternal life" is by faith - whosoever believes.

John 3:16 ... whoever believes has eternal life [rebirth of the Spirit of our spirits in those who believe]

The Holy Spirit is not birthed, he is eternal.

No one disagrees with that.

John 3:16 ... whoever believes has Eternal Life [rebirth of the Spirit of our spirits in those who believe.

Whosoever is driving a car (eternal life) has access to a car - either he has current access (eternal life) by ownership, or he acquired current access (eternal life) before he drove it.

Whoever believes has access to eternal life, either he has access by having been born again, or he acquired access by being born again immediately prior to his faith.

Your secular analogy, which is not found in Scripture, holds no weight over grammar and context.

The context of "John 3:16" is "John 3:14-16," which plainly shows that whoever believes may have eternal life.

John 3:14-16 (ESV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

The context of "eternal life" in "John 3:14-16" indicates that:

• Just as looking upon the serpent on the stake in faith brought healing, so too, those who believe in Christ may also have eternal life.
• Just as the serpent on the stake did not heal, unless one first believed and looked upon the snake, so too, Lord Jesus does not give eternal life unless one first looks to him in faith.

John 5:39-40 (ESV) 39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

The context of "eternal life" in "John 5:39-40" again shows that it is by coming to Christ that one may have eternal life, not the other way around.

John 6:40 (ESV) 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

The context of "eternal life" in "John 6:40" again shows that one must first look on the Son and believe in him to have life, just as people believing and looking upon the snake on the pole brought healing.

John 6:54 (ESV)
Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood [symbolizes believing in Him] has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day

Again, the context shows that whoever believes, symbolized by feeding and drinking of Christ, has eternal life.

John 10:27-28 (ESV)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life

In context, paying attention to the pronouns, we read that the only ones Lord Jesus gives eternal life are to those sheep (them) who listen to and follow him. Therefore, to have eternal life, we must listen to and follow Lord Jesus, and that is how a Gospel Faith manifests.

2 Corinthians 7:10 (ESV) 10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

In context, we are not saved so we can repent; rather, true repentance leads to salvation. We do not receive salvation so we can repent.

Hebrews 5:9 (ESV) And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

Obedience to Lord Jesus is frequently used in place of, or in connection with, true faith in Him. In "Hebrews 5:9" we see that Lord Jesus is the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him. By our obedience to Christ, he gives us eternal salvation.

John 20:30-31 (ESV) 30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have Life in his name.

In context, the whole purpose of John writing the "Gospel of John" was so that we would come to believe in him, and that, by believing, we may have LIFE in his name.

"Life" refers to that eternal life, the transformative work of the Spirit indwelling us, which is to make alive, regeneration, the rebirth.

Considering the context of all these Scriptures, including the grammar I showed you in my previous response to you, we see that Eternal Life is that Life of the indwelling Spirit in us giving us spiritual rebirth, just as you also have stated:

Clare73 said:
Since Christ, we receive the Holy Spirit in his sovereign rebirth of us into eternal life (Jn 3:3-8).

We see that it is only to "whoever" looks to the Son, comes to the Son, and believes in him, manifested in repentance and obedience, is the only means by which one receives eternal life - which is the Spirit dwelling in them - only by faith.

John 7:37-39 (WEB) 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.

The living water represents the life-giving and sustaining presence of the Holy Spirit that "whoever believes" - those who thirst - will receive.

Obviously, this monumental Promise of God was not just for the Apostles; rather, Lord Jesus cried out in a loud voice to all those who thirst, and for "whoever believes."

In Conclusion :

Eternal Life is what we have in us by the Indwelling Spirit (Living Water) which is only received by whoever believes.

Salvation is by faith in Lord Jesus.

Acts 16:30 (WEB) 30 “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

We cross over from death to life by faith:

John 5:24 (ESV) 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

 

[Clare73]

I think you are deliberately interpreting John 3:16 to mean just the opposite, because the grammar and the obvious reading of the text and context plainly teach that we are saved by believing.

Precisely. . .

The new birth is not salvation. . .it is only the ability to believe, which belief is salvation.

I find no disagreement between Jn 3:3-5 and Jn 3:16.

The "new birth into eternal life" is by faith - whosoever believes.

John 3:16 ... whoever believes has eternal life [rebirth of the Spirit of our spirits in those who believe]
No one disagrees with that.
John 3:16 ... whoever believes has Eternal Life [rebirth of the Spirit of our spirits in those who believe.
Your secular analogy, which is not found in Scripture, holds no weight over grammar and context.

It is grammar and context demonstrated.

The context of "John 3:16" is "John 3:14-16," which plainly shows that whoever believes may have eternal life.
John 3:14-16 (ESV)
14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up,
15 that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

The context of "eternal life" in "John 3:14-16" indicates that:

• Just as looking upon the serpent on the stake in faith brought healing, so too, those who believe in Christ may also have eternal life.
• Just as the serpent on the stake did not heal, unless one first believed and looked upon the snake, so too, Lord Jesus does not give eternal life unless one first looks to him in faith.

John 5:39-40 (ESV) 39 You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.

The context of "eternal life" in "John 5:39-40" again shows that it is by coming to Christ that one may have eternal life, not the other way around.

John 6:40 (ESV) 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

The context of "eternal life" in "John 6:40" again shows that one must first look on the Son and believe in him to have life, just as people believing and looking upon the snake on the pole brought healing.

John 6:54 (ESV)
Whoever feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood [symbolizes believing in Him] has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day

Again, the context shows that whoever believes, symbolized by feeding and drinking of Christ, has eternal life.

John 10:27-28 (ESV)
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life

In context, paying attention to the pronouns, we read that the only ones Lord Jesus gives eternal life are to those sheep (them) who listen to and follow him. Therefore, to have eternal life, we must listen to and follow Lord Jesus, and that is how a Gospel Faith manifests.

2 Corinthians 7:10 (ESV) 10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.

In context, we are not saved so we can repent; rather, true repentance leads to salvation. We do not receive salvation so we can repent.

Hebrews 5:9 (ESV) And being made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him,

Obedience to Lord Jesus is frequently used in place of, or in connection with, true faith in Him. In "Hebrews 5:9" we see that Lord Jesus is the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him. By our obedience to Christ, he gives us eternal salvation.

John 20:30-31 (ESV) 30 Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have Life in his name.

In context, the whole purpose of John writing the "Gospel of John" was so that we would come to believe in him, and that, by believing, we may have LIFE in his name.

"Life" refers to that eternal life, the transformative work of the Spirit indwelling us, which is to make alive, regeneration, the rebirth.

Considering the context of all these Scriptures, including the grammar I showed you in my previous response to you, we see that Eternal Life is that Life of the indwelling Spirit in us giving us spiritual rebirth, just as you also have stated:

Clare73 said:
Since Christ, we receive the Holy Spirit in his sovereign rebirth of us into eternal life (Jn 3:3-8).

We see that it is only to "whoever" looks to the Son, comes to the Son, and believes in him, manifested in repentance and obedience, is the only means by which one receives eternal life - which is the Spirit dwelling in them - only by faith.

John 7:37-39 (WEB) 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.

The living water represents the life-giving and sustaining presence of the Holy Spirit that "whoever believes" - those who thirst - will receive.

Obviously, this monumental Promise of God was not just for the Apostles; rather, Lord Jesus cried out in a loud voice to all those who thirst, and for "whoever believes."

In Conclusion :

Eternal Life is what we have in us by the Indwelling Spirit (Living Water) which is only received by whoever believes.

Salvation is by faith in Lord Jesus.

Acts 16:30 (WEB) 30 “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

We cross over from death to life by faith:

John 5:24 (ESV) 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

Previously addressed. . .

 

[setst777]

It is grammar and context demonstrated.

Previously addressed. . .

You have not previously addressed hardly any of this. You choose to remain closed-minded.

I respond to you for your benefit, but not only for your benefit; rather, my messages are written for all those who will view these messages to time-indefinite, as long as this message board exists. They will see your messages and my responses, and no doubt notice that you have not responded at all to the context of "John 3:14-16;" in that, Lord Jesus also gave an analogy regarding Eternal Life.

Unlike your analogy, Lord Jesus' analogy regarding the true event of Moses lifting up an image of a serpent on a stake, shows that we must first look to Lord Jesus and believe to have eternal life, just as the grammar indicates as well.

Likewise, you did not respond to the fact that only to "whoever" looks to the Son, comes to the Son, and believes in him, manifested in repentance and obedience, is the only means by which one receives eternal life - which is the Spirit dwelling in them - only by faith.

John 7:37-39 (WEB) 38 Whoever believes in me, as Scripture has said, rivers of living water will flow from within them.” 39 By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive.

The living water represents the life-giving and sustaining presence of the Holy Spirit that "whoever believes" - those who thirst - will receive.

Obviously, this monumental Promise of God was not just for the Apostles, as you stated; rather, Lord Jesus cried out in a loud voice to all those who thirst, and for "whoever believes."

In Conclusion, which you could not refute, nor did you acknowledge:

Eternal Life is what we have in us by the Indwelling Spirit (Living Water) which is only received by whoever believes.

Salvation is by faith in Lord Jesus.

Acts 16:30 (WEB) 30 “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved, you and your household.”

We cross over from death to life by faith:

John 5:24 (ESV) 24 Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.

You refuse to see, so I will leave you in your state.

 

[Clare73]

Your secular analogy, which is not found in Scripture, holds no weight over grammar and context.I find no disagreemen between Jn 3:

I find no disagreement between Jn 3:3-5 and Jn 3:16.

We have no basis for discussion. . .

 

[fhansen]

You were doing so well right up to the end. A person who is declared rigteousness by God on the basis of believing his sins are forgiven does not need to worry that his future sins won't be forgiven also because his righteousness was never based on his obedience but was always on the basis of forgivness for his failures to obey.

If he abandons righteousness through forgiveness in favor of thinking that his salvation is at steak if he returns to the flesh, then he falls from grace and estranges himself from Christ.

And this encapsulates the problem with the doctrine of sola fide. If you believe that man is only declared or imputed to be righteous instead of made righteous, then there's nothing to lose as long as you at least see yourself as a believer. And thinking that merely believing one's sins are forgiven makes them forgiven means than everything actually depends on you-this is referred to as "fiduciary faith", faith in one’s faith. But that's not what any of this is about.

So let me ask you, does wanton, grave sin matter at all for the believer? Can he still go to heaven as long as he believes his sins are forgiven? Would God’s justice consist of or allow for such a silly notion?

Faith is first of all to turn from sin/the world and enter fellowship with God. It’s to reverse Adam’s disfellowship, to reverse Adam’s rebellion, within ourselves.

It's to say "yes" to God, to the true God as revealed by His Son, Jesus Christ. And that "yes", that faith, itself, is a matter of justice- of righteousness-the first right thing that fallen man can do. Faith is a supernatural gift, of grace, something we cannot conjure up on our own and yet it's also a choice, since we can reject it.

 

[David Lamb]

And this encapsulates the problem with the doctrine of sola fide. If you believe that man is only declared or imputed to be righteous instead of made righteous, then there's nothing to lose as long as you at least see yourself as a believer. And thinking that merely believing one's sins are forgiven makes them forgiven means that everything actually depends on you-this is referred to as "fiduciary faith", faith in one’s faith. But that's not what any of this is about.

So let me ask you, does wanton, grave sin matter at all for the believer? Can he still go to heaven as long as he believes his sins are forgiven? Would God’s justice consist of or allow for such a silly notion?

Faith is first of all to turn from sin/the world and enter fellowship with God. It’s to reverse Adam’s disfellowship, to reverse Adam’s rebellion, within ourselves.

It's to say "yes" to God, to the true God as revealed by His Son, Jesus Christ. And that "yes", that faith, itself, is a matter of justice- of righteousness-the first right thing that fallen man can do. Faith is a supernatural gift, of grace, something we cannot conjure up on our own and yet it's also a choice, since we can reject it.

It's not a case of merely believing that one's sins are forgiven. Jesus actually does forgive sins, as Paul wrote to the Christians at Ephesus:

“In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Eph 1:7 NKJV)

Paul also deals with the matter of the righteousness necessary to be right with a holy God:

“8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 ¶ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which [is] from the law, but that which [is] through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;” (Php 3:8-9 NKJV)

 

[fhansen]

It's not a case of merely believing that one's sins are forgiven. Jesus actually does forgive sins, as Paul wrote to the Christians at Ephesus:

Alright, thank you. But some of the Reformers as well as present day believers have framed and understood the matter as I put it. That's what I was responding to.

 

[Clare73]

And this encapsulates the problem with the doctrine of sola fide.

Your issue is with Eph 2:8-9:

"It is by grace you have been saved through faith. . .not by works."

Salvation is the remission of the guilt of sin through faith in the atoning work of Jesus, resulting in right standing (i.e.,
justification--declaration of "not guilty," sentence of acquittal, forensic righteousness, not actual righteousness of sanctification, Ro 6:19)
with God; i.e., sin free.

Actual righteousness is by the sanctification of obedience in the Holy Spirit in the Christian life.

If you believe that man is only declared or imputed to be righteous instead of made righteous, then there's nothing to lose as long as you at least see yourself as a believer. And thinking that merely believing one's sins are forgiven makes them forgiven means than everything actually depends on you-
this is referred to as "fiduciary faith", faith in one’s faith.

Only in your theological system.

In the NT, it is faith in the atoning work of Jesus Christ (Ro 3:25), which faith is a gift of the Holy Spirit (Php 1:29, Ac 13:48, 18:27, 2 Pe 1:1, Ro 12:3).

Salvation is the Lord's!

But that's not what any of this is about.

So let me ask you, does wanton, grave sin matter at all for the believer? Can he still go to heaven as long as he believes his sins are forgiven? Would God’s justice consist of or allow for such a silly notion?

You keep missing the nature of the matter.

True faith is of the Holy Spirit (see texts above),
true faith obeys (but is not sinless, 1 Jn 1:8-10)),
true faith does not apostasize (1 Jn 2:19) but perseveres in the power of the Holy Spirit.

Wanton, grave sin demonstrates a counterfeit faith, which does not save (Mt 7:21-23).

Faith is first of all to turn from sin/the world and enter fellowship with God. It’s to reverse Adam’s disfellowship, to reverse Adam’s rebellion, within ourselves.

That is repentance, the result of faith.

It's to say "yes" to God, to the true God as revealed by His Son, Jesus Christ. And that "yes", that faith, itself, is a matter of justice- of righteousness-the first right thing that fallen man can do. Faith is a supernatural gift, of grace, something we cannot conjure up on our own and yet it's also a choice, since
we can reject it.

Like we can reject the free gift of a million dollars.

Alright, thank you. But some of the Reformers as well as present day believers have framed and understood the matter as I put it. That's what I was responding to.

Actually, that is your misunderstanding of the Reformers.

 

[fhansen]

True faith is of the Holy Spirit (see texts above),
true faith obeys (but is not sinless, 1 Jn 1:8-10

That's a good one. How far we've strayed from the simplicity of the gospel.

"Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God." 1 John 3:7-9.

Obedience and sin are directly at odds with each other. If we stray, we may need to have a change of heart and confess again, whereupon He purifies us of all unrighteousness, but persistence in sin will regain us death.

And true faith, by itself, counts for nothing. As Augustine put it,
"Without love faith may indeed exist, but avails nothing."

Basil of Caesarea, a 4th century bishop, summed it up well:
"If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.”

 

[Clare73]

That's a good one. How far we've strayed from the simplicity of the gospel.

"Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. The one who does what is sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the devil’s work. No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God." 1 John 3:7-9.

Obedience and sin are directly at odds with each other. If we stray, we may need to have a change of heart and confess again, whereupon He purifies us of all unrighteousness, but persistence in sin will regain us death.

And true faith, by itself, counts for nothing.
As Augustine put it,
"Without love faith may indeed exist, but avails nothing."

First of all, Augustine is not the word of God, and secondly, Augustine is condemning false faith.

 

[fhansen]

First of all, Augustine is not the word of God, and secondly, Augustine is condemning false faith.

No, Augustine is not the last word and neither are you, or me. But many people have accurate understanding of the faith and to a large extent he was one of those and so some of his insights are worth quoting. And no, he was not condemning false faith, if you think so you don't understand him. He was agreeing with Paul and Jesus and we've been down that road before so maybe you can go back and review.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not in context. . .

1 Co 2:14 is referring to the unregenerate, the man without the Spirit, who is incapable of seeing (Jn 3:3-5) or doing (Ro 8:7-8) anything spiritual.

In order to understand the context you need to read the next 5 sentences. Paul wasn’t talking about unbelievers, he was talking about believers who were setting their mind on the flesh instead of on the Spirit. That’s the context.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No, Augustine is not the last word and neither are you, or me. But many people have accurate understanding of the faith and to a large extent he was one of those and so some of his insights are worth quoting. And no, he was not condemning false faith, if you think so you don't understand him. He was agreeing with Paul and Jesus and we've been down that road before so maybe you can go back and review.

Augustine may not be the last word but James is.

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

We’re actually discussing this verse in another thread today.

Clare says that if the person strayed then they had a counterfeit faith. I’m trying to understand how such a person can turn back to a counterfeit faith and be saved.

 

[AbbaLove]

Paul also deals with the matter of the righteousness necessary to be right with a holy God:

Righteousness according to "the law"? So what righteousness is Paul referring to by which God calls His chosen ones? If you mean "faith" isn't our righteousness due to the Gift of Faith from God ... OR ... is righteousness also dependent upon our own obedience (decisions) under His "law/command" as also under the "New Covenant" ...

Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;
in all your ways submit to Him, and He will make your paths straight.​

“8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 ¶ and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which [is] from the law, but that which [is] through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;” (Php 3:8-9 NKJV)​

Would you consider Paul's conversion "from the law of Judaism" a predestined miracle?
So Paul's faith in Christ was ONLY possible as a miraculous Gift from God​

Paul's Faith was a Gift from God which was only possible with Christ having fulfilled the Lord's Holy Feasts beginning with Passover through Tabernacling(indwelling) with His called out chosen ones that were faithful to the end. His chosen disciple Judas was not faithful. Did he not have [enough] faith because of his own selfish will (the will of satan)?

The Golden Chain Of Salvation

The Golden Chain of Salvation | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org

Augustine of Hippo comments on today’s passage that "God elected believers in order that they might believe, not because they already believed." God's choice of

www.ligonier.org

The Sequence Of Salvation

The Sequence of Salvation | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org

Calvin also writes in the Institutes that as soon as believers are "admitted to fellowship with Christ, by the knowledge of the gospel, and the illumination of

www.ligonier.org

Romans 8:29-30
29 For those God foreknew He also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters. 30 And those whom He predestined He also called, and those whom He called He also justified, and those whom He justified He also glorified.
1 Corinthians 6:10-11
10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

Here are some other things to consider about predestination: ​

• God's planning stages: The apostle Paul describes God's purpose from the beginning when He “predestined” people to be called. This refers to God's plan about when to call someone, not whether He would call the person or not.
• The source of miracles: The source of miracles is the love of God.
• Calvinism: John Calvin, a French theologian who lived during the 1500s, is probably the most well known proponent of predestination. A major branch of Protestantism referred to as Reformed Christianity.

 

[fhansen]

Righteousness according to "the law"? So what righteousness is Paul referring to by which God calls His chosen ones? If you mean "faith" isn't our righteousness due to the Gift of Faith from God ... OR ... is righteousness also dependent upon our own obedience (decisions) under His "law/command" as also under the "New Covenant" ...

​

Righteousness is righteousness as John reminds us in 1 John 3. It directly opposes sin, which happens to be lawlessness. We can and must, as believers, adhere to this righteousness which the law reflects and testifies to but cannot accomplish in us (Rom 3:21), by walking in the Spirit, regardless of whether or not we've ever even heard the law.

 

[Clare73]

No, Augustine is not the last word and neither are you, or me. But many people have accurate understanding of the faith and to a large extent he was one of those and so some of his insights are worth quoting. And no, he was not condemning false faith,

Faith without love is not true faith.

 

[Clare73]

In order to understand the context you need to read the next 5 sentences. Paul wasn’t talking about unbelievers, he was talking about believers who were setting their mind on the flesh instead of on the Spirit. That’s the context.

Minds set on the flesh (not spiritual) are unregenerate.