God Created Evil

[PastorKeith]

You are still assuming that evil is a created thing, rather than a lack of a created thing. Those in this thread who say God is not the creator of evil are not arguing that it's a "thing" that has created itself, or that has been created by someone other than God, but that it's not a "thing" at all.

Evil exists.
All things that exist were created by God.
God created evil.

And He did it (create evil) without being evil or sinning, all the while maintaining his Holiness. How? I do not begin to know, any more than I know how he keeps the sun in its place every day, and the earth on its orbit. I just wake up, and there's the sun. I don't need to know the how.

 

[Strong in Him]

Evil exists.
All things that exist were created by God.
God created evil.

"God is love", 1 John 4:8.
"Love does not rejoice in evil", 1 Corinthians 13:6.

So God does not rejoice in the evil which, you say, he created. Even though Genesis 1 tells us that God said his creation was very good, Genesis 1:31.

I wrote a previous post on this together with several other Bible references. You chose to respond to only one sentence, and ignored the rest.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Evil exists.
All things that exist were created by God.
God created evil.

And He did it (create evil) without being evil or sinning, all the while maintaining his Holiness. How? I do not begin to know, any more than I know how he keeps the sun in its place every day, and the earth on its orbit. I just wake up, and there's the sun. I don't need to know the how.

God can create any "thing" and not be the "things" created. Those who claim God is evil for creating evil power are technically walking into pantheism, making God the same as created things

 

[PastorKeith]

"God is love", 1 John 4:8.
"Love does not rejoice in evil", 1 Corinthians 13:6.

So God does not rejoice in the evil which, you say, he created. Even though Genesis 1 tells us that God said his creation was very good, Genesis 1:31.

I wrote a previous post on this together with several other Bible references. You chose to respond to only one sentence, and ignored the rest.

Yes his creation is VERY good, even though evil exists. We would ALL agree to that, so why wouldn't God agree with it?

 

[PastorKeith]

God can create any "thing" and not be the "things" created. Those who claim God is evil for creating evil power are technically walking into pantheism, making God the same as created things

It is strange to me that God created sinners without being a sinner, every agrees with that, but if you say God created EVERYTHING including evil, without being evil, they lose their minds.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

God can create any "thing" and not be the "things" created. Those who claim God is evil for creating evil power are technically walking into pantheism, making God the same as created things

Yes, the extreme application of the "God is in Control of Everything" doctrine is a warped form of pantheism. Essentially, creation is merely an extension of God, and everything that exists is Him, and His will manifests simultaneously into reality as we know it. A very dangerous and false doctrine.

 

[Jonaitis]

I have been a Christian since 2006, and in most of those years, Christians I spoke to would staunchly rebuke the idea that God created evil. They would say evil is simply a result of our human sinful choices. But that's not what the Bible clearly states...

"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things." Isaiah 45:7

Many Christians will use James as a rebuke, where he states God never tempts anyone, but tempting someone to sin, and creating evil are not the same thing. God created everything that exists, evil exists, therefore God created evil... this even fits a logical argument. But why would a holy God create evil? For His Glory.

This is the difficult answer so many people struggle with: God created all there is for His glory, and nothing else.

“Bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the end of the earth, everyone who is called by my name, whom I created for my glory” Isaiah. 43:6–7

Some Christians believe He created us because He loves us and wants a relationship with us, but that is not what the Bible teaches. Of course He does love us and wants a relationship with us, but that is not why we were created. All glory be to Him. His understanding is unsearchable (Isaiah 40).

I think we humans try to put our understanding of love and holiness on God, when we are sorely lacking in understanding. What say you?

If Yahweh did not create evil, then the cross of Christ was an attempt to fix a mistake in his creation.

If Yahweh did not create evil, then it has a foreign and independent origin from everything else.

If Yahweh did not create evil, then he is not omnipotent over its existence.

 

[Strong in Him]

Yes his creation is VERY good, even though evil exists. We would ALL agree to that, so why wouldn't God agree with it?

God said that his creation was very good.
But you are saying that evil was also his creation and that that was very good as well.
Evil is not good. All through Scripture it is clear that God hates evil; so he wouldn't declare it to be good.

 

[Strong in Him]

If Yahweh did not create evil, then the cross of Christ was an attempt to fix a mistake in his creation.

If Yahweh did create evil, that means he sent Jesus to die in agony to defeat something which he had purposefully created - sin and evil.
If Yahweh did create evil, then why did Jesus tell us to pray to be saved from it?

 

[PastorKeith]

God said that his creation was very good.
But you are saying that evil was also his creation and that that was very good as well.
Evil is not good. All through Scripture it is clear that God hates evil; so he wouldn't declare it to be good.

The Bible says it was good.... meaning, His creation. Not that everything in his creation was good. You are reading into the scripture something that isn't there. A few verses after God declares it all good, he grieves over his creation and decides to send a flood to destroy every living creature save one family. Do you think God was surprised by the events in the Garden of Eden? That It caught Him off guard? Remember, by the time Adam sinned, Lucifer had already staged a rebellion against God in Heaven.

 

[PastorKeith]

If Yahweh did create evil, that means he sent Jesus to die in agony to defeat something which he had purposefully created - sin and evil.
If Yahweh did create evil, then why did Jesus tell us to pray to be saved from it?

God had a plan to send Jesus to the cross, before all of creation. So, Yes!

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Yes, the extreme application of the "God is in Control of Everything" doctrine is a warped form of pantheism. Essentially, creation is merely an extension of God, and everything that exists is Him, and His will manifests simultaneously into reality as we know it. A very dangerous and false doctrine.

As it pertains to the topic matter, God can and does create things that are against Him, on purpose

In fact, if we think about it, every created thing is less than Perfect

God created a perfect devil. Does that make the devil the same Perfect as God? Nope

IF we say God is not in control of everything, that is a far worse slippery slope. A God who ain't so much of a God

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

It is strange to me that God created sinners without being a sinner, every agrees with that, but if you say God created EVERYTHING including evil, without being evil, they lose their minds.

IF God needs isolation or insulation from creating evil powers, imposed by His adherents, even in conflict with scriptures that say as much, what does that really say?

They simply have a lesser God. One that is not Preeminent over all things

 

[Gregory Thompson]

IF we say God is not in control of everything, that is a far worse slippery slope. A God who ain't so much of a God

However, a God in control of everything in such a world like this leads to God looking like a caricature of a cartoon villian.

If God is in control of everything, then all the evil in the world occurs via God's consent.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

However, a God in control of everything in such a world like this leads to God looking like a caricature of a cartoon villian.

If God is in control of everything, then all the evil in the world occurs via God's consent.

If, in the final analysis, sin evil and death serves His Perfect Purposes, I'd think that makes God pretty Great.

Here is a simple statement by Paul showing the benefit of being bound to disobedience:

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

In fact without God's Eternal Mercy creation of any sort wouldn't even exist

 

[Gregory Thompson]

If, in the final analysis, sin evil and death serves His Perfect Purposes, I'd think that makes God pretty Great.

Here is a simple statement by Paul showing the benefit of being bound to disobedience:

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

In fact without God's Eternal Mercy creation of any sort wouldn't even exist

The missing puzzle piece here is that God delegated control to Adam.

In His faithfulness He continues with this arrangement.

Since Adam sinned and caused this to enter the world, this is why Jesus needed to come and die in the first place.

There is evil in the world, sure, but humans are creating it. If you want to get God involved, pray.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

The missing puzzle piece here is that God delegated control to Adam.

What in the world makes you think Adam wasn't bound to disobedience like everyone else? Obviously he was.

Mark 4:15 is how it happened to Adam. All have sin, Romans 3:9. And sin is "of the devil," 1 John 3:8

As to such freewill suppositions, God is not in "need" of anyone's performances in order to reward them or be merciful to them

Grace is unmerited

 

[PastorKeith]

If God is in control of everything, then all the evil in the world occurs via God's consent.

YES absolutely, look no further than the book of Job

 

[Gregory Thompson]

What in the world makes you think Adam wasn't bound to disobedience like everyone else? Obviously he was.

Exactly the point. Adam disobedient still held same station as before, as did the snake. God's personality as displayed in the bible indicates, once He gives an authority .. it sticks according to the basis of it.

Once the new heaven and the new earth are revealed, the old heaven and earth will already be thoroughly incinerated .. so by no basis will the old authorities matter at that time.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

YES absolutely, look no further than the book of Job

I read another account in the Old testament writings implying God held council with angels and demons. Since none of the writers were born again, some misconceptions about God are inevitable. Even Paul admitted to be seeing God as through a dirty window.