Just believe

[davetaff]

Hi should we just believe Gods word as it is or should we try and manipulate it to suit our theology even if we do not understand what we read should we just believe what it says its Gods word it can't possibly be wrong
When God says he created the world and everything in it then that's what he did we must believe it not disect every word of scripture trying to prove it's right or wrong all we have to do is believe.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hi should we just believe Gods word as it is or should we try and manipulate it to suit our theology even if we do not understand what we read should we just believe what it says its Gods word it can't possibly be wrong
When God says he created the world and everything in it then that's what he did we must believe it not disect every word of scripture trying to prove it's right or wrong all we have to do is believe.

Love and Peace
Dave

Dave, we should recognize and acknowledge that human communication has rules and social structure that arbitrates its use, and how we use that communication, whether through language or symbols, is informed by our existence in the world in which we live, both past and present.

The Word of God was given through the medium of human language, and it is incumbent upon us to do our best to understand the Gospel message as it was intended to be understood by its author(s) and in connection with the social and cultural contexts in which it was originally given.

Therefore, it is neither a case of "simply believing" nor "manipulating the Word" to suit our theology; we have the 3rd, more appropriate option of applying hermeneutics to our study of the Word of God and being open to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

In applying the above to the subject of Creation, we can affirm that the book of Genesis provides a prophetic pronouncement (or narrative), given by Moses, about the true spiritual nature of the world in which we live, and this is the case whether we think the Lord created our World quickly or slowly.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hi should we just believe Gods word as it is or should we try and manipulate it to suit our theology even if we do not understand what we read should we just believe what it says its Gods word it can't possibly be wrong
When God says he created the world and everything in it then that's what he did we must believe it not disect every word of scripture trying to prove it's right or wrong all we have to do is believe.

Love and Peace
Dave

Christians believe He created the world and everything in it. The division is putting a time frame on it. As far as interjecting a particular man made theological view upon scripture, it has been a huge stumbling block for His Flock and continues till this day.

Blessings.

 

[davetaff]

Dave, we should recognize and acknowledge that human communication has rules and social structure that arbitrates its use, and how we use that communication, whether through language or symbols, is informed by our existence in the world in which we live, both past and present.

The Word of God was given through the medium of human language, and it is incumbent upon us to do our best to understand the Gospel message as it was intended to be understood by its author(s) and in connection with the social and cultural contexts in which it was originally given.

Therefore, it is neither a case of "simply believing" nor "manipulating the Word" to suit our theology; we have the 3rd, more appropriate option of applying hermeneutics to our study of the Word of God and being open to the leading of the Holy Spirit.

In applying the above to the subject of Creation, we can affirm that the book of Genesis provides a prophetic pronouncement (or narrative), given by Moses, about the true spiritual nature of the world in which we live, and this is the case whether we think the Lord created our World quickly or slowly.

Hi Philovoid
Thank you for your reply our Lord did not preach to the well educated he preached to the ordenary man in the street who most probably could not read or write but he expected them to understand his parables.
The reason we have over 600 denominations is because men have changed the words of scripture we need to stick to the words we have in the KJV I believe this is how God want his word to be.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[d taylor]

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I do i believe the creation account as given in The Bible. That is why i am a God created stationary flat earth, Adam and Eve created by God on day 6 of God's restoring the earth God created in Genesis 1:1

 

[davetaff]

Christians believe He created the world and everything in it. The division is putting a time frame on it. As far as interjecting a particular man made theological view upon scripture, it has been a huge stumbling block for His Flock and continues till this day.

Blessings.

Hi Maria Billingsley
Thank you for your reply do Christians believe God created everything how can they believe if there always trying to proove it its not just the creation but the whole of scripture we have to believe even when we do not understand it.
So lets just believe Gods word without changing the words I know the bible was written in ancient languages but I trust God to give me a bible in a language I can understand.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[CoreyD]

Hi should we just believe Gods word as it is or should we try and manipulate it to suit our theology even if we do not understand what we read should we just believe what it says its Gods word it can't possibly be wrong
When God says he created the world and everything in it then that's what he did we must believe it not disect every word of scripture trying to prove it's right or wrong all we have to do is believe.

Love and Peace
Dave

Just believe? No.
Gullibility is

1. The quality of readily believing information, truthful or otherwise, usually to an absurd extent.
2. Tendency to believe too readily and therefore to be easily deceived.

God's word the Bible says

• Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1
• but test all things. Hold fast to what is good. 1 Thessalonians 5:21
• The naive or inexperienced person [is easily misled and] believes every word he hears, But the prudent man [is discreet and astute and] considers well where he is going. Proverbs 14:15

Even the Bible tells us that it is foolish to just believe. This agrees with how true knowledge is acquired.
So, you would want to make sure that the Bible is reliable, and then use it, to find the knowledge of God. Proverbs 2:3-5

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hi Maria Billingsley
Thank you for your reply do Christians believe God created everything how can they believe if there always trying to proove it its not just the creation but the whole of scripture we have to believe even when we do not understand it.
So lets just believe Gods word without changing the words I know the bible was written in ancient languages but I trust God to give me a bible in a language I can understand.

Love and Peace
Dave

His Holy Spirit will guild you in all truth. You do not need to read old English. Maybe try the NKJV.
Blessings!

 

[CoreyD]

Hi Philovoid
Thank you for your reply our Lord did not preach to the well educated he preached to the ordenary man in the street who most probably could not read or write but he expected them to understand his parables.

Jesus was sent to preached to the Jewish people. Matthew 15:24
These were people who were educated in the law of God from infancy. Deuteronomy 6:4-9
They could read and write, but many of them were not educated in the Rabbinic teachings. Acts 4:13

The reason we have over 600 denominations is because men have changed the words of scripture we need to stick to the words we have in the KJV I believe this is how God want his word to be.

Love and Peace
Dave

What do you mean by "changed the words of scripture"?

Are you aware that the inspired scriptures are centuries older than the KJV, and the KJV contains additions from later copyist?
Are you aware that the KJV has been revised multiple times, and in the New King James Version (NKJV), some of those additions are not found?

For example. 1 John 5:6, 7
KJV
6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

NKJV
6 This is the one who came by water and blood—Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

Why do you believe persons should use the KJV translation?

 

[eleos1954]

Hi should we just believe Gods word as it is or should we try and manipulate it to suit our theology even if we do not understand what we read should we just believe what it says its Gods word it can't possibly be wrong
When God says he created the world and everything in it then that's what he did we must believe it not disect every word of scripture trying to prove it's right or wrong all we have to do is believe.

Love and Peace
Dave

We don't prove or disprove scripture itself ... we prove or disprove interpretations of others of what scripture says ... and we are supposed to do that.

As far as the beginning ... scripture says it happened in 6 literal days ... of which some find it difficult to believe because man's interpretation through the use of science ... of which is void of any supernatural consideration ... it just randomly happened. The basis of this is either one sees design or random happen chance over millions/billions of years. What we have learned through science is there is tremendous complexity (evidence of design/creation) .... and this just randomly happened? To me ... this is a huge stretch to think that.

We have the more sure word of prophecy.

We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

We are to understand prophecy using only the bible.

Be like those persons in the ancient city of Beroea who “received the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so.” (Acts 17:11) Yes, personal scrutiny of God’s Word is absolutely necessary to determine whether the teaching you are receiving is right or wrong ... not the scripture itself.

Interpretations ... they do indeed need to be proven or disproven.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hi Philovoid
Thank you for your reply our Lord did not preach to the well educated he preached to the ordenary man in the street who most probably could not read or write but he expected them to understand his parables.

Yes, you're right. Jesus preached to the ordinary man on the street. But, He also preached to those who were educated, and some of them believed as well.

The reason we have over 600 denominations is because men have changed the words of scripture we need to stick to the words we have in the KJV I believe this is how God want his word to be.

Love and Peace
Dave

I think you're right that some men have changed the meaning of the words of Scripture and created their own groups at various points. I think we can see this if we read about the early heresies that some people asserted during the first few hundreds years of the history of Christianity (such as is accounted for by the late F.F. Bruce in his little book, The Defense of the Gospel in the New Testament (1959/R-1977).

However, where modern, Post-Reformation denominations are concerned, I don't think it's merely the case that we have so many denominations simply because people changed the meaning of the Bible. No, today it's at least partly because we know that the Bible has conceptual limits in what its various authors were communicating millennia ago, being ensconced in the original situations and cultural contexts that they were. And due to the bivalent nature of human language, especially of that from the foreign past, it is difficult to interpret clearly what was meant in the documents of the Bible.

We need to stop the assumption that everyone is purposely trying to be heterodox and/or heretical in their denominational perspectives, offering to each other at least some of what Rupertus Meldenius recommended: "In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, in all things Charity."

In Essentials Unity, In Non-Essentials Liberty, In All Things Charity by Mark Ross

Philip Schaff, the distinguished nineteenth-century church historian, calls the saying in our title “the watchword of Christian peacemakers.” Often attributed t

www.ligonier.org

I agree with this. However. I'd probably revise it to say "... in nearly all [noble and good] things charity." Obviously, some heresies need exposure to Critical Thinking and Truth.................... but without warfare and bloodshed. I think it goes without saying that this should apply even to the topic of the conceptual tensions between Evolution and Creation.

 

[Citanul]

we need to stick to the words we have in the KJV I believe this is how God want his word to be.

God wants the entire world to use an English Bible?

 

[davetaff]

God wants the entire world to use an English Bible?

Of course not they should use a bible in a language they understand I have this strange idea that God loves us and wants us to know who he is and what he is doing so he has given us his word in languages we can understand.
Should we spend years in university learning ancient languages instead of trusting God to give us his word in languages we can understand I believe its the stories that are important this is how Christ taught in parables simple stories which had a deeper meaning.

Love and Peace
Dave

Love and

 

[Citanul]

Of course not they should use a bible in a language they understand

Then why did you say that the KJV is how God wants his word to be? That's a very Anglocentric way of looking at things.

 

[davetaff]

Then why did you say that the KJV is how God wants his word to be? That's a very Anglocentric way of looking at things.

Hi Citanuĺ
Thank you for your reply I thought it was obvious I was speaking of English speaking people
Back to the thread should we see the stories of the bible as parables take the Exodus should we see this as how God will take a people for himself out of the world.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[David Lamb]

Just believe? No.
Gullibility is

1. The quality of readily believing information, truthful or otherwise, usually to an absurd extent.
2. Tendency to believe too readily and therefore to be easily deceived.

God's word the Bible says

• Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 1 John 4:1
• but test all things. Hold fast to what is good. 1 Thessalonians 5:21
• The naive or inexperienced person [is easily misled and] believes every word he hears, But the prudent man [is discreet and astute and] considers well where he is going. Proverbs 14:15

Even the Bible tells us that it is foolish to just believe. This agrees with how true knowledge is acquired.
So, you would want to make sure that the Bible is reliable, and then use it, to find the knowledge of God. Proverbs 2:3-5

But the bible nowhere tells us that it is foolish to believe the bible. Yes, it certainly says that we are to test all things, but that does not include God Himself, and the bible is God's Word. Indeed, Jesus said:

“You shall not tempt the LORD your God.” (Lu 4:12 NKJV)

The word translated "tempt" there means "put to the proof", "test".

 

[CoreyD]

But the bible nowhere tells us that it is foolish to believe the bible. Yes, it certainly says that we are to test all things, but that does not include God Himself, and the bible is God's Word. Indeed, Jesus said:

“You shall not tempt the LORD your God.” (Lu 4:12 NKJV)

The word translated "tempt" there means "put to the proof", "test".

You jumped me there for a moment.
I actually thought I really did say it is foolish to believe the Bible.

 

[David Lamb]

You jumped me there for a moment.
I actually thought I really did say it is foolish to believe the Bible.

Well, I admit I did think that was what you meant. After all the original post in this thread stated that we should "just believe the bible", and you wrote, "Even the Bible tells us that it is foolish to just believe." I understood that you were following the theme of the thread. I do apologize if I misunderstood you.

 

[CoreyD]

Well, I admit I did thin that was what you meant. After all the original post in this thread stated that we should "just believe the bible", and you wrote, "Even the Bible tells us that it is foolish to just believe." I understood that you were following the theme of the thread. I do apologize if I misunderstood you.

It's easy to misunderstand if we interpret someone's words, rather than reading what the person says, and taking what the person says as what the person says.
See how easy misinterpretation come about David.
The solution : Don't interpret. Just accept.
Apology accepted.

 

[davetaff]

Well, I admit I did thin that was what you meant. After all the original post in this thread stated that we should "just believe the bible", and you wrote, "Even the Bible tells us that it is foolish to just believe." I understood that you were following the theme of the thread. I do apologize if I misunderstood you.

Hi thanks for all you posts David Lamb said
Even the Bible tells us that it is foolish to just believe.

Do you have scripture to back this up.

How about the story of Noah ite a mirror image of what will happen in the end times our ark is the body of Christ why did God give Peter a vision of a sheet full of wild animals representing the Gentiles it was these that would enter the body of Christ its history repeating it's self.

Love and Peace
Dave