Just believe

[davetaff]

The word of God existed long before the KJV.

Hi Strong in him
Thank you for your reply of course the word of God existed before the KJV can't argue with that but I also believe he gives us his word in a language we can understand what would be the point of giving his word in languages we don't understand.
Why did God give the first converts the gift of tongues it was so they could preach the gospel in other countries the same reason he gives us his word in books we can understand I don't believe God wants us to go to university to learn ancient languages to be able to understand what he has to say the KJV or the ESV are perfectly adequate for that purpose God loves us and wants us to know him and has given us his word in languages we can understand.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[Strong in Him]

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[Strong in Him]

Hi Strong in him
Thank you for your reply of course the word of God existed before the KJV can't argue with that but I also believe he gives us his word in a language we can understand

Yes, but for me, and for many, the KJV is not in language that I understand. Or at least, I do, but it isn't easy to read.

The NT was written in Koine Greek - the language of people on the street; informal, almost slang.
KJV English is not spoken nowadays; no one says, "I beseech thee, passeth me yonder scroll." They would say "give/pass/chuck me that book, will you?"
Language has changed a lot since King James' day. Even when I was at school, "gay" meant "happy"; say the words "I'm gay" now and people will think you're homosexual. Tell a teenager today that they are wicked, and they will probably see it as a compliment (though that word may be out of fashion now.) The word "wicked" has a very different meaning in Scripture. Likewise, the word "sick" seems to mean cool, great etc. Whereas in the Bible, sick means ill.

I don't believe God wants us to go to university to learn ancient languages to be able to understand what he has to say

He doesn't - he wants his word to be easily read by modern man in modern language. That's what the NT was written in - modern, everyday language.

the KJV or the ESV are perfectly adequate for that purpose

It's a matter of taste but I don't use the KJV, we don't use it in church and I would never give it to a new believer.

 

[David Lamb]

Yes, but for me, and for many, the KJV is not in language that I understand. Or at least, I do, but it isn't easy to read.

The NT was written in Koine Greek - the language of people on the street; informal, almost slang.
KJV English is not spoken nowadays; no one says, "I beseech thee, passeth me yonder scroll." They would say "give/pass/chuck me that book, will you?"
Language has changed a lot since King James' day. Even when I was at school, "gay" meant "happy"; say the words "I'm gay" now and people will think you're homosexual. Tell a teenager today that they are wicked, and they will probably see it as a compliment (though that word may be out of fashion now.) The word "wicked" has a very different meaning in Scripture. Likewise, the word "sick" seems to mean cool, great etc. Whereas in the Bible, sick means ill.

I think the most confusing thing about the English used in the Authorised Version/King James Version is where a word is still used today, but with a completely different meaning to the one it had in 1611, but the modern meaning would still be plausible (though of course incorrect) in the Scripture verse where it occurs. An example is the word "prevent", which occurs in the following verse:

For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. (1Th 4:15 NKJV)

Today, "prevent" means to stop somebody doing something, but Paul is not talking about those who are alive at the Second Coming stopping those Christians who are still alive. In 1611, "prevent" meant to go before, to precede.

Another example is "conversation". Here it is in a psalm:

Whoso offereth praise glorifieth me: and to him that ordereth [his] conversation [aright] will I shew the salvation of God. Psalm 50:23

Today, "conversation" means two or more people talking to each other, but the psalmist isn't talking about that. In 1611, "conversation" meant conduct, behaviour.

 

[davetaff]

Hi strong in him and David Lamb
Thank you for your posts cant argue with them its all a matter of taste the reason I favour the KJV IS I believe although a translator held the pen I believe the HolySpirit guided what he wrote I have no proof for this its what I believe of course that God can be behind other translations is perfectly feasible after all its the story that matters not individual words solong as we get the right meaning of the passage

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[Strong in Him]

Hi strong in him and David Lamb
Thank you for your posts cant argue with them its all a matter of taste the reason I favour the KJV IS I believe although a translator held the pen I believe the HolySpirit guided what he wrote I have no proof for this its what I believe of course that God can be behind other translations is perfectly feasible after all its the story that matters not individual words solong as we get the right meaning of the passage.

I'm sure that God inspired other translators too. But I'm glad that the KJV blesses you.

 

[davetaff]

I'm sure that God inspired other translators too. But I'm glad that the KJV blesses you.

Hi strong in him
Thank you for your reply the question is dose God want us to disect every word of scripture looking for other meanings or should we accept it as we have it in our mother tongue

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[Strong in Him]

Hi strong in him
Thank you for your reply the question is dose God want us to disect every word of scripture looking for other meanings or should we accept it as we have it in our mother tongue

It wasn't written in our mother tongue.
It was written in Hebrew and Greek, translated into Latin and then into English. I'm not saying it has been mistranslated, but there may be words in the original Greek/Hebrew that have no real equivalent in English. There may be colloquial phrases that we need to understand.
The best way to find out what these Greek speakers/writers meant when they wrote in Greek for Greek speaking audiences is to either study Greek, or refer to/read those who do.

I don't know of anyone who studies the Bible to look for "other meanings". That suggests someone who isn't happy with a particular teaching so is looking for a loophole. or alternative interpretation, that they can agree with. Most Christians I know, read the Bible. If they want to find out more about the culture, traditions or history of the time, or who a certain character, (e.g. Herod) was, they refer to a commentary, Bible dictionary or other reference book.

As I said, language has changed a lot since the KJV was produced and discoveries of other manuscripts have been made - e.g. the Dead Sea scrolls.

 

[davetaff]

It wasn't written in our mother tongue.
It was written in Hebrew and Greek, translated into Latin and then into English. I'm not saying it has been mistranslated, but there may be words in the original Greek/Hebrew that have no real equivalent in English. There may be colloquial phrases that we need to understand.
The best way to find out what these Greek speakers/writers meant when they wrote in Greek for Greek speaking audiences is to either study Greek, or refer to/read those who do.

I don't know of anyone who studies the Bible to look for "other meanings". That suggests someone who isn't happy with a particular teaching so is looking for a loophole. or alternative interpretation, that they can agree with. Most Christians I know, read the Bible. If they want to find out more about the culture, traditions or history of the time, or who a certain character, (e.g. Herod) was, they refer to a commentary, Bible dictionary or other reference book.

As I said, language has changed a lot since the KJV was produced and discoveries of other manuscripts have been made - e.g. the Dead Sea scrolls.

Hi Strong in him
Thank you for your reply I can understand what you are saying but do you think the bible as we have it is good enough for purpose to convey Gods word to the masses.
When Christ came into the world he taught in parables short stories that had a deeper meaning should we view the stories in the OT in the same light.
Is it the stories that are important or individual words how should we read our Bible's

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[Strong in Him]

Hi Strong in him
Thank you for your reply I can understand what you are saying but do you think the bible as we have it is good enough for purpose to convey Gods word to the masses.

Of course it is.

When Christ came into the world he taught in parables short stories that had a deeper meaning should we view the stories in the OT in the same light.

A lot of the events, words or messages of the OT prophesied about Jesus.
Jesus is a second Adam and greater than Moses. Jesus was prophesied by the prophets, and the Gospels tell us how he fulfilled those prophecies. He was the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 and gave the sign of Jonah, pointing to his resurrection.
The first Messianic promise was given in the Garden of Eden, Genesis 3:15.

Some of the OT stories teach us about God and the relationship he wants with us.

Is it the stories that are important or individual words

Both.
Stories are important; teaching, prophesy and accounts of how God saved, and relates to, his people are important.

Just as important is understanding the background, culture and context of a book, or passage. Who was the author writing to and what would those who read the Gospel/Epistle have understood by their words?
It's far too easy to read the Bible though modern eyes, modern culture and modern values. In the OT, for example, animal sacrifice was normal and accepted. We don't have to go round slitting sheep's throats today - Jesus died as the once and for all sacrifice. But we should understand why killing animals was so important. The 23rd Psalm says "The Lord is my shepherd". Nowadays sheep may be driven by a shepherd, or sheep dog and put into secure barns at night. In those days, a shepherd led his/her sheep - going before them to remove stones, poisonous plants or anything that might harm the sheep. At night a shepherd lay down across the opening of the sheep pen; nothing could get in without going past the shepherd. If we don't know/understand these cultural differences we won't be able to really appreciate how the Lord is our Shepherd, and Jesus the Good Shepherd.

To properly understand, or appreciate, the teachings it is often helpful to look at the Greek/Hebrew to find out what the text said in the original language.

But any translation of the Bible is God's word, and Jesus is THE Word of God.

 

[davetaff]

Of course it is.

A lot of the events, words or messages of the OT prophesied about Jesus.
Jesus is a second Adam and greater than Moses. Jesus was prophesied by the prophets, and the Gospels tell us how he fulfilled those prophecies. He was the suffering servant of Isaiah 53 and gave the sign of Jonah, pointing to his resurrection.
The first Messianic promise was given in the Garden of Eden, Genesis 3:15.

Some of the OT stories teach us about God and the relationship he wants with us.

Both.
Stories are important; teaching, prophesy and accounts of how God saved, and relates to, his people are important.

Just as important is understanding the background, culture and context of a book, or passage. Who was the author writing to and what would those who read the Gospel/Epistle have understood by their words?
It's far too easy to read the Bible though modern eyes, modern culture and modern values. In the OT, for example, animal sacrifice was normal and accepted. We don't have to go round slitting sheep's throats today - Jesus died as the once and for all sacrifice. But we should understand why killing animals was so important. The 23rd Psalm says "The Lord is my shepherd". Nowadays sheep may be driven by a shepherd, or sheep dog and put into secure barns at night. In those days, a shepherd led his/her sheep - going before them to remove stones, poisonous plants or anything that might harm the sheep. At night a shepherd lay down across the opening of the sheep pen; nothing could get in without going past the shepherd. If we don't know/understand these cultural differences we won't be able to really appreciate how the Lord is our Shepherd, and Jesus the Good Shepherd.

To properly understand, or appreciate, the teachings it is often helpful to look at the Greek/Hebrew to find out what the text said in the original language.

But any translation of the Bible is God's word, and Jesus is THE Word of God.

Hi strong in him
Thank you for an interesting post will be a blessing to many who read plenty of food for thought thank you.
You mention Genesis made me think of this verse

Isa 46:10 Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure.

I believe the end here is the end of creation which is man in the image of God which is Jesus Christ at his second coming Christ tells us him and the Father were working up to our Lords second advent which means the Fathers sabbath rest is a future event what I am trying to say is that Genesis is the history of mankind up to the present and beyond not jest something that happend thousands of years ago.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[davetaff]

Hi
So Gods sabbath rest is the seventh day of creation which is also Christs millennial reign which we enter into to be instructed by Christ.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[Panthers]

Once you understand the mystery piece, belief transforms into knowing.

Matthew 14:29

 

[Panthers]

Hi
So Gods sabbath rest is the seventh day of creation which is also Christs millennial reign which we enter into to be instructed by Christ.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

[davetaff]

View attachment 353886

Hi Panthers
Thank you for your reply not that I understand it as far as I'm aware there is no 8 and 9 day the only thing that concerns us is the 6 days of creation the end result mankind in the image of God and the 7th day the Farthers sabbath rest and Christ's millennial reign

Love and Peace
Dave