VOTE HOW MANY BELIEVE IN A PRE TRIBULATION HOPE/RAPTURE ?

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Friend, why tempt you me?

I'm tempting you to be honest

 

[Zenos777]

If the rapture happens before the tribulation, then I am pre-trip.
If it happens in 3.5 tears after the str of the tribulation, then I am Mid-trip.
If it happens after the tribulation (if I am still here), then I am post-trip.
I guess the main thing is to make sure my lamp has oil in it, when the bridegroom comes.

 

[keras]

I guess the main thing is to make sure my lamp has oil in it, when the bridegroom comes.

And how to have sufficient 'oil', will be to stand firm in your faith when the Lord sends His fiery wrath at the forthcoming Sixth Seal Day of disaster.
It will be those complacent Christians, who fondly imagine they are good enough to be taken directly to heaven, who will fail this test. Matthew 3:12

 

[Oseas]

I'm tempting you to be honest

To speak of honesty, it is necessary first of all to be honest, understand?

What does the Word of my GOD say? Romans 2:5-12

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself WRATH against the Day of WRATH (this GOD's Day arrived) and revelation of the righteous Judgment of GOD;-->1 Corinthians 6:2

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8But unto them that are contentious,and don't obey the Truth,but obey unrighteousness,INDIGNATION and WRATH,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with GOD.

12 For as many as have sinned without law(the Gentiles) shall also PERISH WITHOUT LAW: and as many as have sinned in the Law(the JEWS) shall be JUDGED by the Law;

What will happen now, even now, from now on, yeah, from now on, in the world of the DEVIL as a whole, according to the Word of my Lord GOD?-->I am preaching but Who executes is my Lord GOD according His Word, the Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?
Isaiah 26:21(combined with Revelation 11:15-18) --> For, behold, the Lord cometh out of His place to PUNISH THE INHABITANTS OF THE EARTH for their INIQUITY: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

Get ready

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

And your position seems to be utterly blind when it comes to the tempter operating in anyone

go figure

How am I wrong in what Rev 3:10 means? Do you recognize the two groups cited therein, as "you" and "those?" Do you recognize the 'hour of trial" is the 7-year Trib? Do you recognize that only "those" will be tried by the 21 judgments of God's wrath? Do you see now that "you" will not enter the Trib?

 

[Oseas]

How am I wrong in what Rev 3:10 means? Do you recognize the two groups cited therein, as "you" and "those?" Do you recognize the 'hour of trial" is the 7-year Trib?

You are wrong completely, because your interpretations are mere devilish speculations and conjectures. The angel of the Lord that was sent by JESUS to the isle of Patmos, actually an archangel, he, the angel of the Lord, not JESUS who was and is at the right hand of the Father, said to the angel of the Church of Philadelphia: 3:10 -> "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience", now, what is the word of His patience? What really produce the patience is the tribulation, understand? So, what is the message or the word of His patience?
The questions you are doing above are trashes from your devilish heart, tempting the readers of this topic by the evil spirit.

Do you recognize that only "those" will be tried by the 21 judgments of God's wrath?

Only specific 21 Judgments of GOD's WRAHT? List them for us if you do not be a messenger of the Devil?

Do you see now that "you" will not enter the Trib?

You are lying to a brother in Christ, and are working at the side of the red Dragon, to the synagogue of Satan-Revelation 3:9.



Revelation 3:7-10
7 And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;

8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.

9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie(Romans 9:6-8, take a look); behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience (TRIBULATION PRODUCE PATIENCE), I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation,which shall come upon all the world,to try them that dwell upon the earth.->JESUS said to the disciples: Luke 22:28-30: -->28 Ye are they which have continued with me in my temptations.-->29 And I appoint unto you a Kingdom,as my Father hath appointed unto me;30 That ye may eat and drink at MY TABLE in my kingdom, and sit on thrones Judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.

12 Him that overcometh (only he who overcomes) will I make a pillar in the temple of my GOD, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches. --> If the Churches-GOD's people-would not be here in the period of tribulation that is at door, this recommendation would have not any sense.

 

[Apple Sky]

How am I wrong in what Rev 3:10 means? Do you recognize the two groups cited therein, as "you" and "those?" Do you recognize the 'hour of trial" is the 7-year Trib? Do you recognize that only "those" will be tried by the 21 judgments of God's wrath? Do you see now that "you" will not enter the Trib?

No - I can't see it, we are all going through the trib whether we like it or not - sorry.

 

[keras]

No - I can't see it, we are all going through the trib whether we like it or not - sorry.

We are all going to be on earth for the Great Tribulation.
However, those who refused to agree to the 7 year peace treaty with the Anti-Christ, will be kept safe in a distant location. Rev 12:14
Those who did agree, must remain where they are, Revelation 12:17

Only people with an escapist mentality and who make the Prophesies mean whatever they want it to, grip onto the false teachings of a rapture removal.

 

[Apple Sky]

Only people with an escapist mentality and who make the Prophesies mean whatever they want it to, grip onto the false teachings of a rapture removal.

These pre-rapture believers must be afraid of facing up to the fact that they too must go through the trib.
But there's nothing to be afraid of if your faith is in Jesus.

Blessing

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

How am I wrong in what Rev 3:10 means? Do you recognize the two groups cited therein, as "you" and "those?" Do you recognize the 'hour of trial" is the 7-year Trib? Do you recognize that only "those" will be tried by the 21 judgments of God's wrath? Do you see now that "you" will not enter the Trib?

Your position repeatedly misses half the exercise.

Satan is bruised "under our feet." Romans 16:20

What is the main goal of a witness in a trial? -> To tell the TRUTH

The truth is we all bear the tempter in our own flesh. IF you told the truth, THEN you'd be happy over the Great Tribulation unto our enemies, the devil and his messengers. In fact you'd be the first standing in line to witness:

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Judgment must begin at US

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

To speak of honesty, it is necessary first of all to be honest, understand?

Hey, that's a great start. We can cut to the chase on this matter with a couple simple observations:

Are you a sinner, no better than any other sinner? Romans 3:9

Is your sin of the devil? 1 John 3:8, Mark 4:15

That should do it. I like to see believers positions avoid telling the truth, because it's not them, really, who do it

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

We are all going to be on earth for the Great Tribulation.
However, those who refused to agree to the 7 year peace treaty with the Anti-Christ, will be kept safe in a distant location. Rev 12:14
Those who did agree, must remain where they are, Revelation 12:17

Only people with an escapist mentality and who make the Prophesies mean whatever they want it to, grip onto the false teachings of a rapture removal.

Your position appears to be not all that much different than pre-trib

 

[Oseas]

We are all going to be on earth for the Great Tribulation.
However, those who refused to agree to the 7 year peace treaty with the Anti-Christ, will be kept safe in a distant location. Rev 12:14
Those who did agree, must remain where they are, Revelation 12:17

Only people with an escapist mentality and who make the Prophesies mean whatever they want it to, grip onto the false teachings of a rapture removal.

Acts 14:22
22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that WE MUST through much TRIBULATION enter into the kingdom of GOD.

Revelation 11:15 ->The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD(DEVIL's WORLD)are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 11:18- And the NATIONS were(will be) angry (why?),and GOD's WRATH is come,...-->WHAT WILL BE THE CONSEQUENCES IN ALL THE NATIONS? All will see from now on. The message for ALL the brlievers is: GET READY, and do what the Lord GOD commands: Isaiah 26:20-21 and trust in the Word of GOD-->Psalms 91 among many other biblical references.

NOW, even now, the current time, it is of the dead, that they should be Judged--> Isaiah 26:19 combined with Daniel 12:1-4, and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16;

NOW, the Lord GOD should give REWARD unto His servants the prophets, and to the saints(1Corinthians 6:2), and them that fear HIS NAME, small and great;

NOW,even NOW,from NOW on, our Lord GOD should DESTROY them which destroy the earth.->2Peter 3:11->Seeing then that all these things shall be DISSOLVED (AS AN IMPLOSION), what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a NEW earth(Acts 3:19-21), wherein dwelleth righteousness.

The Word of GOD is from everlasting to everlasting, thw Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing.

Revelation 16:15 -->15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.


P.S.
Matthew 24:22-23
22 And except these days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake these days shall be shortened.

23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. ->take care, be careful

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

No - I can't see it, we are all going through the trib whether we like it or not - sorry.

First of all, you can't prove one believer enters the Trib, other than servants of God (the 144k in Rev 7:3; and the Two Witnesses in Rev 11:3). They are sent there to work for God in the Trib in order to help save a multitude (Rev 7:9). They do save a multitude throughout the seven years of the Trib. All those saved can be proven to be new converts by very specific verbiage in certain verses, and by verses that prove there are no believers on Earth during the Trib (except the 144k and the 2W).

Jesus proves you wrong in Rev 3:10 (ESV): "I will keep you from the hour of trial." ---- The "hour of trial" is Daniel's 70th week (Daniel 9:27), the 7-year Trib. It's referred to as a trial because of the 21 judgments of God's wrath that will take place over seven years in the form of seals (Rev 6 and Rev 8:1), trumpets (Rev 8:2 through Rev 9 and Rev 11:15), and bowls (Rev 15-16). The Trib is a very condemnatory environment. It is done to prove God is God, that He is all-powerful, and that it's time to repent and accept Jesus Christ as their Savior.

You can't refute that Jesus was referring to Daniel's 70th week, the 7-year Trib when He said, "I will keep you from the hour of trial."

Romans 8:1 (ESV): There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. ---- We have repented. We are forgiven. We have accepted Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior. There is no way we will enter the Trib which is nothing but an environment for condemnation or salvation.

The only trial held against believers is 2 Cor 5:10 (ESV): For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil. ---- That trial take place on the day of the rapture, per 2 Tim 4:8 (ESV): Henceforth there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, will award to me on that day, and not only to me but also to all who have loved his appearing. ---- Jesus' next appearing will be in the view of believers only, per 1 Th 4:17. We are raptured into Heavenly clouds where we will first see Jesus. We meet Him in the air. Jesus is behind those same clouds the whole time. Furthermore, this all takes place in Heaven.

You cannot align 1 Th 4:16-17 with the 2A (2nd Advent: Matt 24:30-31). The purpose of the trumpet in 1 Th 4:16 does not match the purpose of the trumpet in Matt 24:31. We are gathered to Heaven in 1 Th 4:17. Matt 24:31 is a gathering, but to where? No one knows. A "gathering unto Him" is only in rapture verses: 2 Th 2:1 and John 14:3. The rapture cannot be proven to take place anywhere in the Trib or 2A. It is wholly and only a pre-Trib event.

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

Your position repeatedly misses half the exercise.

Satan is bruised "under our feet." Romans 16:20

What is the main goal of a witness in a trial? -> To tell the TRUTH

The truth is we all bear the tempter in our own flesh. IF you told the truth, THEN you'd be happy over the Great Tribulation unto our enemies, the devil and his messengers. In fact you'd be the first standing in line to witness:

1 Peter 4:17
For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?

Judgment must begin at US

Peter was referring to the daily trials and tribulation of being one of his disciples. He was counseling his disciples.

You in no way refute the pre-Trib rapture, which is abundantly proven in Scripture.

 

[Oseas]

No - I can't see it, we are all going through the trib whether we like it or not - sorry.

Acts 14:22
22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that WE MUST through much TRIBULATION enter into the kingdom of GOD.

Revelation 11:15 ->The kingdoms OF THIS WORLD(DEVIL's WORLD)are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Revelation 11:18- And the NATIONS were(will be) angry (why?),and GOD's WRATH is come,...-->WHAT WILL BE THE CONSEQUENCES IN ALL THE NATIONS? All will see from now on. The message for ALL the brlievers is: GET READY, and do what the Lord GOD commands: Isaiah 26:20-21 and trust in the Word of GOD-->Psalms 91 among many other biblical references.

NOW, even now, the current time, it is of the dead, that they should be Judged--> Isaiah 26:19 combined with Daniel 12:1-4, and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16;

NOW, the Lord GOD should give REWARD unto His servants the prophets, and to the saints(1Corinthians 6:2), and them that fear HIS NAME, small and great;

Matthew 24:22-23
22 And except these days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake these days shall be shortened.
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. ->take care, be careful

JESUS WARNED US:
24 there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets-false preachres of the Word of GOD as you have seen- ... insomuch that, if it were POSSIBLE, they shall deceive the very elect. -> THE TRUE BELIEVERS. take care, be careful

 

[Oseas]

Job 1:6-8

6 Now there was a Day when the sons of GOD came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. (NOW, IN THE CURRENT TIME, IN THIS SEVENTH AND LAST DAY, THE LORD's DAY, AND ESTABLISHMENT OF GOD's KINGDOM-Revelation 11:15-18- AGAIN, SATAN COMES FROM GOING TO AND FRO AMONG GOD's PEOPLE).

7 And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

8 And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth GOD, and escheweth evil?

Ephesians 6:10-14
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the Devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of GOD, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

Revelation 16:13-15 - The Battle is between GOD X SATAN

13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs(A SATANIC TRINITRY) come out of the MOUTH of the dragon(DRAGON? Revelation 13:11), and out of the MOUTH of the Beast(the Beast of sea(Revelation 13:1-10)-, and out of the MOUTH of the false prophet(John 5:43-47).

14 For they are the spirits of devils...which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of this great Day of GOD Almighty.->the seventh and last Day, the Lord's Day, or seventh and last millennium)

15 Behold, I come as a thief...

Get ready

 

[Jeffrey Bowden]

We are all going to be on earth for the Great Tribulation.
However, those who refused to agree to the 7 year peace treaty with the Anti-Christ, will be kept safe in a distant location. Rev 12:14
Those who did agree, must remain where they are, Revelation 12:17

Only people with an escapist mentality and who make the Prophesies mean whatever they want it to, grip onto the false teachings of a rapture removal.

Keras, this is definitive proof of the pre-Trib rapture:

1 Th 1:10 (NKJV): and to wait for His Son from heaven, whom He raised from the dead, even Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

"Delivers us" in this context means we are “snatched away” (raptured): "The second usage of deliverance refers to the Acts of God whereby he rescues his people from danger. The key words nasal [l;v"n] ("draw out, snatched away")," --- Source: Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology.

God's wrath provably begins in the Trib no later than the 2nd seal. Here's the 2nd seal: Rev 6:4 (TLB): This time a red horse rode out. Its rider was given a long sword and the authority to banish peace and bring anarchy to the earth; war and killing broke out everywhere.

Wars in the Trib are a form of God's wrath as proven in Ezekiel 14:21 (NLT): “Now this is what the Sovereign Lord says: How terrible it will be when all four of these dreadful punishments fall upon Jerusalem—war, famine, wild animals, and disease—destroying all her people and animals.

Therefore, what Paul was saying in 1 Th 1:10 is we will be raptured before the Trib, before "the wrath to come," because God's wrath provably starts on day 1 of the Trib.

 

[Oseas]

(the 144k in Rev 7:3; and the Two Witnesses in Rev 11:3). They are sent there to work for God in the Trib in order to help save a multitude (Rev 7:9). They do save a multitude throughout the seven years of the Trib. All those saved can be proven to be new converts by very specific verbiage in certain verses, and by verses that prove there are no believers on Earth during the Trib (except the 144k and the 2W).

What is posted above will NEVER happen, but NEVER, inf fact all your post as a whole is full of false interpretation of the Word of GOD, a STUMBLING BLOCK, a DEVILISH TRAP for the believers.

JESUS warned the believers, saying: Matthew 24:24-25: -> 24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets ... (false preachers of the Word of GOD); insomuch that, if it WERE POSSIBLE, they shall deceive the very elect.-> THE TRUE BELIEVERS - His Church - His body

25 Behold, I have told you before. JESUS warned

.

 

[keras]

First of all, you can't prove one believer enters the Trib,

Wrong;
Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7 prove that Gods holy people are present when the Great Trib starts.

Peter was referring to the daily trials and tribulation of being one of his disciples.

Wrong;
Peter Prophesied a Judgment of fire, to test everybody, 1 Peter 4:12

Keras, this is definitive proof of the pre-Trib rapture:

Wrong;
1 Thess 1:10 does not mention anyone being raptured, or heaven.

NOW, even now, the current time, it is of the dead, that they should be Judged--> Isaiah 26:19 combined with Daniel 12:1-4, and 1 Thessalonians 4:15-16;

Revelation 20:11-15 specifically informs us when the dead will be Judged; AFTER the Millennium.