Mariolatry?

[Grip Docility]

I think the term "Lord" is synonymous with master. Jesus was a form of Deity, no doubt.

“form”?!? This doesn’t look good.

Was Mary then Mother of God?

This is not a positive statement.

Of course not. God does not have a mother.

If God did not become flesh, then we are lost.

Hebrews 2:14

However, in the form of man God did have a mother,

Form? I’m not liking this verbiage.

God alone is Savior.

Jesus is God. God is bound to flesh by choice. God the Son was/is most definitely GOD in flesh (period).

Son of Man
Son of God
God Incarnate

If Mary isn’t Jesus’ Biological Mother, there is no “Son of Man”.

who had nothing whatsoever to do with producing a divine child. She just "had him."

So, what is the biblical genealogy for, in your opinion?

The emphasis here was not on Mary, but on the Lord, who Mary carried.

Mary is the Mother of God. Literally. What part of Immanuel is unclear?

In Mary coming, she brought the Lord with her. You are turning this around to be about Mary, rather than about the Lord she carried.

It’s about the Blood Line of God. This is about the Immaculate Conception of the Incarnation.

This isn’t a light matter. This is one of those biggies.

 

[d taylor]

Jesus is God. The Father is God. The Holy Spirit is God. They are one and inseparable.

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Too bad you do not understand the Trinity

 

[d taylor]

You said that Jesus was "part of what makes up the whole of God," which is incompatible with Him being "true God of true God."

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There are three individual Persons that make up the Triune God. My last post on this.

 

[d taylor]

Yes, I understand that this is your interpretation of Rev 12. I, however, cannot accept that this is Mary. It is true that this woman apparently represents, metaphorically, the "mother" of Christ. But that doesn't mean it refers to an individual. It can also refer to either Eve or Israel, both of whom indirectly gave birth to Christ.

Mary did not have a crown of 12 stars. She did not give birth to either the 12 tribes or Israel or to the 12 apostles of Christ. This "Woman" is not Mary! Even if you wish to interpret it as such, the Scriptures themselves do not identify her as that, even though it would've been simple to do so.

So you assign such an elevated place of authority to a single woman due to a vague prophecy, the interpretation of which is debatable. Would God really make such an exalted claim on such sketchy grounds? I don't think so.

Not only so, but our example, the Apostle Paul, who gave us much of the NT Scriptures, claimed he was "nothing." Should we then count Mary as superior to the entire Church?

2 Cor 12.11 I am not in the least inferior to the “super-apostles,” even though I am nothing.

I know what "prayer" is--we should not be praying to, or asking Mary, for anything. Our go-between with God is Jesus himself. He is the one we pray through--not Mary, and not the saints. Certainly not any angel!

That's true of any good Christian. We heed the words of wise Christians who would properly advise us.

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The Women in Revelation 12 is Israel (the believing remnant) verses 13 and 17 show that this women will be the object of intense persecution during the Great Tribulation.

 

[Grip Docility]

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The Women in Revelation 12 is Israel (the believing remnant) verses 13 and 17 show that this women will be the object of intense persecution during the Great Tribulation.

She is both Israel and Mary.

Mary is the womb of Israel and all humanity. Mary is also the genuine biological Mother who bore the unification of God and Mankind. God was incarnated specifically through Mary, via the Good Gardner’s tended bloodline which is listed in Luke.

 

[d taylor]

She is both Israel and Mary.

Mary is the womb of Israel and all humanity. Mary is also the genuine biological Mother who bore the unification of God and Mankind. God was incarnated specifically through Mary, via the Good Gardner’s tended bloodline which is listed in Luke.

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Nope no double meaning verses

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Nope no double meaning verses​

Let's agree on the clear interpretation that Mary is the mother and Jesus is the child. There's no necessity to search for metaphorical figures; Mary was a real woman, and Jesus was her actual baby.

 

[Jipsah]

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Too bad you do not understand the Trinity

I'm keen to hear your explanation. So far it seems that you envision three Gods acting as a comittee.

 

[d taylor]

Let's agree on the clear interpretation that Mary is the mother and Jesus is the child. There's no necessity to search for metaphorical figures; Mary was a real woman, and Jesus was her actual baby.

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Again the women in chapter 12 of Revelation can only be Israel. You say Mary remained a virgin so how can she have other offspring.

And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

 

[Grip Docility]

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Again the women in chapter 12 of Revelation can only be Israel. You say Mary remained a virgin so how can she have other offspring.

And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

The womb of the Woman was?

“Not Mary” wouldn’t be biblical.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

the women in chapter 12 of Revelation can only be Israel.

Israel was a man not a woman.

 

[Valletta]

Israel was a man not a woman.

Israel didn't wear clothes or a crown.

 

[d taylor]

Israel was a man not a woman.

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“Speak comfort to Jerusalem, and cry out to her,
That her warfare is ended,
That her iniquity is pardoned;
For she has received from the Lord’s hand
Double for all her sins.”
---------

The Lord said also to me in the days of Josiah the king: “Have you seen what backsliding Israel has done? She has gone up on every high mountain and under every green tree, and there played the harlot. And I said, after she had done all these things, ‘Return to Me.’ But she did not return. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also. So it came to pass, through her casual harlotry, that she defiled the land and committed adultery with stones and trees. And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah has not turned to Me with her whole heart, but in pretense,” says the Lord.
---------

Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations, and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God to Jerusalem: “Your birth and your nativity are from the land of Canaan; your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite. As for your nativity, on the day you were born your navel cord was not cut, nor were you washed in water to cleanse you; you were not rubbed with salt nor wrapped in swaddling cloths. No eye pitied you, to do any of these things for you, to have compassion on you; but you were thrown out into the open field, when you yourself were loathed on the day you were born.
“And when I passed by you and saw you struggling in your own blood, I said to you in your blood, ‘Live!’ Yes, I said to you in your blood, ‘Live!’ I made you thrive like a plant in the field; and you grew, matured, and became very beautiful. Your breasts were formed, your hair grew, but you were naked and bare.

 

[Valletta]

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The Women in Revelation 12 is Israel (the believing remnant) verses 13 and 17 show that this women will be the object of intense persecution during the Great Tribulation.

Certainly the main meaning is Mary, a true woman, the mother of Jesus who wears clothes and a crown, a crown worn by the queen. If you allow for a secondary meaning, and I do, then Israel is reflected. While there are twelve Apostles there are twelve tribes of Israel. This is not a coincidence.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

“Speak comfort to Jerusalem, and cry out to her,
That her warfare is ended,
That her iniquity is pardoned;
For she has received from the Lord’s hand
Double for all her sins.”

Jerusalem is a city, not a person, nor is Jerusalem Israel.

 

[RandyPNW]

“form”?!? This doesn’t look good.

If you are frightened by words you need to change your business. I used the very words of Scripture.
Phil 2.5 Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in human form, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.

This is not a positive statement.

If God did not become flesh, then we are lost.

Hebrews 2:14

Form? I’m not liking this verbiage.

God alone is Savior.

Jesus is God. God is bound to flesh by choice. God the Son was/is most definitely GOD in flesh (period).

Son of Man
Son of God
God Incarnate

If Mary isn’t Jesus’ Biological Mother, there is no “Son of Man”.

So, what is the biblical genealogy for, in your opinion?

Mary is the Mother of God. Literally. What part of Immanuel is unclear?

It’s about the Blood Line of God. This is about the Immaculate Conception of the Incarnation.

This isn’t a light matter. This is one of those biggies.

It's the same old argument. Mary is the mother of Jesus. Jesus is God. So Mary is the mother of God. You miss the point, or refuse to acknowledge it. There is a difference between saying Mary is the mother of Jesus and saying Mary is the mother of God. The difference is if we mean by "Mother of God" that Deity in its infinite form has a "mother." It does not.

Deity has a mother only in its finite form. But you have a problem with the word "form," and apparently with any Bible translator that translates Philippians 2 as such?

 

[RandyPNW]

Jesus never sinned.

2 Cor 5: 21 For our sake he made him to be sin[a] who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition

The context excluded Jesus from "all" mankind by rendering him the divine Son of God. Obviously, God can't sin against His own word! All mankind, with the exception of Jesus, have sinned and fall short of God's glory.

Paul argues in Romans 3 that all men need redeeming by Jesus who obviously is being excluded from all men who need redemption.

 

[Valletta]

The context excluded Jesus from "all" mankind by rendering him the divine Son of God. Obviously, God can't sin against His own word! All mankind, with the exception of Jesus, have sinned and fall short of God's glory.

Paul argues in Romans 3 that all men need redeeming by Jesus who obviously is being excluded from all men who need redemption.

I gave numerous examples. You are now saying that all does not mean every individual. You say Jesus is an exception, although the statement does not say so. Let me ask, what sins do accuse newborn babies of committing?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The Lord said also to me in the days of Josiah the king: “Have you seen what backsliding Israel has done? She has gone up on every high mountain and under every green tree, and there played the harlot. And I said, after she had done all these things, ‘Return to Me.’ But she did not return. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also. So it came to pass, through her casual harlotry, that she defiled the land and committed adultery with stones and trees. And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah has not turned to Me with her whole heart, but in pretense,” says the Lord.
---------

Again the word of the Lord came to me, saying, “Son of man, cause Jerusalem to know her abominations, and say, ‘Thus says the Lord God to Jerusalem: “Your birth and your nativity are from the land of Canaan; your father was an Amorite and your mother a Hittite. As for your nativity, on the day you were born your navel cord was not cut, nor were you washed in water to cleanse you; you were not rubbed with salt nor wrapped in swaddling cloths. No eye pitied you, to do any of these things for you, to have compassion on you; but you were thrown out into the open field, when you yourself were loathed on the day you were born.
“And when I passed by you and saw you struggling in your own blood, I said to you in your blood, ‘Live!’ Yes, I said to you in your blood, ‘Live!’ I made you thrive like a plant in the field; and you grew, matured, and became very beautiful. Your breasts were formed, your hair grew, but you were naked and bare.

None of these passages are referenced, quoted, or alluded to in Revelation 11:19-12:2 or the following verses. The woman described is one who bears a child, and this child is unequivocally Jesus Christ. It requires no interpretation to comprehend that the woman who gives birth is the mother of the child, and thus, the mother of Jesus is Mary, not a metaphorical entity such as Jerusalem, Israel, or any other conceivable figure.

 

[Lost4words]

I will waste no time on "air."

Awesome. Glad you agree with my point...