Sabbath keeping

[EJ M]

Obedience to God is not legalism its love.

showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Exodus 20:6

For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments 1 John 5:3

If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15

If you are a parent, do you not have rules for your children out of love because you know what's best for them? So does God. He is a God of love but He is also a King and a King has rules, God gave us His rules written by His own finger Exo 31:18 Exo 32:16, they are not meant to be burdensome 1 John 5:3, but meant because He knows what is best for us. If one thinks having communion with God by keeping His Sabbath by resting in Him is legalisms may need to re-think their relationship with God.

Hello,
It seems you completely miss my point,
I do not raise any arguments against keeping ALL God’s commandment, my point is, I worry about judging and condemning others that don’t keep the Sabbath and not keeping it as clearly defined in the Bible, which I have never seen anyone do, not even one. If you claim to keep the Sabbath and,
Kindle a fire, (stove, light switch, start a car, etc) a man was stoned for violating this.
Buy or sell, (rent, internet, utilities, services etc.) also a stoning offense.
Change God’s law even a little, (start/stop the Sabbath anytime at all except Friday at sundown till Saturday at sundown) Keeping the Sabbath North of the arctic circle means there is no Sabbath for about two months in the summer and the Sabbath doesn’t end for about two months in the winter, simply not possible to even survive North of the arctic circle in the winter unless we change God’s law.
Check out the sunrise/sunset chart at Barrow Alaska.
It’s certain that if I condemn the Pope for changing the day and then doing the same, God will judge me also. So I don’t.
My Lord Jesus is my rest! Every day.

 

[BobRyan]

Remember the Sabbath to keep it holy
Jesus came to save mankind for our sins and show us the only way to the Father.

Jesus teachings are the pillar and ground of truth. Not a single person will come to God except through Jesus. Jesus did not come to destroy the law and the prophets, but to fulfill.
He is the fulfillment of the Old Testament and raised the standard of obedience to make it an issue of the heart, not just the outward.
Adultery is raised to even looking and lusting, murder is raised to hatred in the heart.

In Hebrews 4, the Sabbath is raised to the very person of Christ, He is our rest every day, not just on Saturday.

Jesus did not delete the command to no take God's name in vain. Ex 20:7
Eph 6:2 - Jesus did not delete the command to honor parents.
John 14:15 "If you Love Me keep My commandments"
Heb 8:5-12 says it is Christ speaking His TEN Commandments at Sinai.
Ex 20:6 "Love Me and Keep My Commandments"
1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"

Sadly, many Saturday Sabbath keepers will freely condemn those who worship on a Sunday

I have yet to see even one post on this thread by someone who claims to keep the Bible Sabbath, against someone worshiping God -- no matter the day.

I do see some criticism against Bible Sabbath keepers however.

while they don’t keep the Sabbath either

Read Is 58:13-14 much?

how about Ex 20:8-11??

as God outlined in the Old Testament, when He gave the Sabbath commandment in Numbers 15

Ex 20:11 says God gave the Sabbath commandment in Gen 2:2-3
Ex 20:8-11 specifies no death penalty for failure to keep the Sabbath. It is Rom 6:23 that talks about that sort of thing and says the gift of God is eternal life.

, there is a story of a man who gathered firewood on Saturday and kindled a fire

The civil laws under a theocracy were not in effect when the theocracy ended - as the Baptist Confession of Faith section 19 points out ... so also the Westminster Confession of Faith sectn 19.

Nor is there a death penalty in the Sabbath commandment - in the TEN. Ex 20:8-11

He was stoned for breaking the Sabbath commandment.

Yep - the civil laws under a theocracy where the "wages of sin is death" as Rom 6:23 points out - are a little different than one would find outside of a theocracy.

 

[BobRyan]

Hello,
It seems you completely miss my point,
I do not raise any arguments against keeping ALL God’s commandment, my point is, I worry about judging and condemning others'

Does your post judge and condemn others??

they don’t keep the Sabbath either as God outlined

 

[EJ M]

Does your post judge and condemn others??

Hello,
No it does not, if you reread you will see my wording, I WORRY that all who judge and condemn others, yet do the same will face the judgement of God, (Mathew 7:1-6, Roman’s 2:1-2)
I worry that all who judge and condemn yet partake of the same will be judged as hypocrites. And my fear isn’t my own idea as per the references.

 

[BobRyan]

they don’t keep the Sabbath either as God outlined

Hello,
It seems you completely miss my point,
I do not raise any arguments against keeping ALL God’s commandment, my point is, I worry about judging and condemning others that don’t keep the Sabbath and not keeping it as clearly defined in the Bible, which I have never seen anyone do, not even one. If you claim to keep the Sabbath and,
Kindle a fire, (stove, light switch, start a car, etc) a man was stoned for violating this.
Buy or sell, (rent, internet, utilities, services etc.) also a stoning offense.

Your entire argument is about you condemning others - as if renting land or a house on Sabbath was "conducting business" even though we all know that in both the OT and in the NT in the Gospels - people rented land and property from others - including housing, and were never charged for Sabbath breaking - for such a thing - not even under a theocracy was such a thing done.

How does it help your argument to make up rules that were not in place even when God himself was king over all of Israel in the time of the Judges??

Change God’s law even a little, (start/stop the Sabbath anytime at all except Friday at sundown till Saturday at sundown) Keeping the Sabbath North of the arctic circle

There a places where at certain times of the year there is no night because the sun never fully sets, and other times when there is no day - because the sun never fully rises at certain times of the year.

Using that "as an excuse" to ignore God's Sabbath commandment was no more valid at Sinai than it would be today. And we all know it.
So I am not clear as to how that idea helps your argument at all.

means there is no Sabbath for about two months in the summer

Does not appear to have stopped God in Gen 2:2-3 or in Ex 20:8-11 from having the real Sabbath Commandment applicable to real humans.

How is this helping your argument??

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Ex 35:2-3 - "For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy ("set apart," from work) day, a Sabbath of rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it must be put to death." (See Nu 15:32-36.)

Claire, you know this is no longer the case, The penalty of sin was paid in full, However Jesus said of you love me keep my commandments, You follow them out of love for your creator and also because it is the only way to eternal life. All these commandments are born out of love. I will use a poor analogy, but imagine you remove all laws regulating driving a car, no speed limit, no lights, no directions, no stop signs, no police to enforce these laws what do you imagine would happen.

Dt 5:14 - ". . .the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates. so that your manservant and maidservant may rest as you do."

Yes Claire rest no problem there we agree.

Jer 17:21-22 - ". . .be careful not to carry a load on the Sabbath day or bring it into the gates of Jerusalem. Do not bring a load out of your houses or do any work on the Sabbath, but keep the Sabbath day holy (set apart, from work), as I commanded your forefathers."

Jer 17:27 - If you do not obey me to keep the Sabbath day holy (set apart, from work) by not carrying any load as you come through the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day, then I will kindle an unquenchable fire in the gates of Jerusalem that will consume her fortresses.

Claire there are plenty of examples in the bible of what happens to people who disobey the lord, He is just. obedience to His commandments saves us from death, The lord wants us to be Holy as he is Holy, to fear the Lord the beginning of wisdom.

I enter God's own full-time NT Sabbath rest in Jesus Christ (of which the OT Sabbath rest was a pre-figure) where I rest full-time from my own work to save and in his work which saves.

This full time rest is not one of the 10 commandments, has nothing to do with it, I assure you it is false doctrine. Do not let anyone fool you Claire, scripture is clear.

We have discussed this already many times cant you believe scripture? All of the bible says to follow the sabbath and not to forget it, except a few verse from Paul that seem to say something else. Do you honestly think the writings from Paul a servant, to be superior to Jesus or even GOD who wrote the 10 commandments with his Finger on Stone a PERMANENT media?



Peace and best wishes Claire

 

[Leaf473]

Nice to meet you too leaf, to answer your question, In the Bible, the Sabbath is observed from sunset on the sixth day (Friday) to sunset on the seventh day (Saturday). This timing is based on the creation account and Jewish tradition, where a day begins and ends at sunset rather than at midnight.
Here are some verses related to the Sabbath:

Genesis 1:5 (KJV): "And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day." This verse establishes the pattern of a day beginning in the evening.

Exodus 20:8-10 (KJV): "Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:" This commandment emphasizes the Sabbath as a day of rest, starting on the seventh day of the week.

Leviticus 23:32 (KJV): "It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath." This verse specifies that the Sabbath begins at sundown and ends at the next sundown.

Regarding people living in different hemispheres or time zones, the Bible does not address modern concepts of time zones or hemispheres. The biblical Sabbath observance is rooted in the tradition of sunset to sunset, which was practical for the cultures of the time. In a global context, individuals generally adapt the timing of Sabbath observance to their local sunset times, aiming to honor the principle of rest and worship on the designated day according to their geographic location.

Peace.

Yes, I understand that seventh day observers adapt to their geographic location.

But... According to the scriptures, should they adapt to the sunset before the one in Jerusalem, or the sunset after Jerusalem?

 

[EJ M]

Your entire argument is about you condemning others - as if renting land or a house on Sabbath was "conducting business" even though we all know that in both the OT and in the NT in the Gospels - people rented land and property from others - including housing, and were never charged for Sabbath breaking - for such a thing - not even under a theocracy was such a thing done.

How does it help your argument to make up rules that were not in place even when God himself was king over all of Israel in the time of the Judges??

There a places where at certain times of the year there is no night because the sun never fully sets, and other times when there is no day - because the sun never fully rises at certain times of the year.

Using that "as an excuse" to ignore God's Sabbath commandment was no more valid at Sinai than it would be today. And we all know it.
So I am not clear as to how that idea helps your argument at all.

Does not appear to have stopped God in Gen 2:2-3 or in Ex 20:8-11 from having the real Sabbath Commandment applicable to real humans.

How is this helping your argument??

I don’t have an argument, only a huge concern that all who judge and condemn and do the same will face the judgement of God.(II Cor 5:10)
And nobody will win an argument with Him, although many will try. (Mathew 7:21-23)

 

[BobRyan]

I don’t have an argument, only a huge concern that all who judge and condemn and do the same will face the judgement of God.(II Cor 5:10)
And nobody will win an argument with Him, although many will try. (Mathew 7:21-23)

No doubt.

Still we would prefer arguments that hold up when it comes to the Word of God.

In Mark 7:7-13 you see religious leaders being called out by Christ - for coming up with suggestions that contradict God's Word - even though the ones making up those ideas in Mark 7 - claimed it was "all good" with God's word .... adding "nothing to see here... no problem"

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Yes, I understand that seventh day observers adapt to their geographic location.

But... According to the scriptures, should they adapt to the sunset before the one in Jerusalem, or the sunset after Jerusalem?

it is mentioned nowhere in scripture to adapt to Jerusalem time, only from sunset to sunset, did i miss something?

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, I understand that seventh day observers adapt to their geographic location.

But... According to the scriptures, should they adapt to the sunset before the one in Jerusalem, or the sunset after Jerusalem?

There is no indication that at the time of the Judges - people were scurrying around looking for sunset in Jerusalem (a city that did not exist).

What is more - there is no indication that at Sinai - they refused to keep Sabbath until someone first ran accross the wilderness to see when sunset happened in Jerusalem.

And in Gen 2:2-3 we don't see Adam and Eve leaving Eden to find out what time sunset would be in the geographic location of future Jerusalem.

So in other words -- it is difficult to take that idea with more than a grain of salt given the Bible details such as they are.

 

[Leaf473]

it is mentioned nowhere in scripture to adapt to Jerusalem time, only from sunset to sunset, did i miss something?

Well, the seventh day observers I've talked to in the past refer to this passage

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 16:23 - New American Standard Bible

then he said to them, “This is what the LORD meant: Tomorrow is a Sabbath observance, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning.”

www.biblegateway.com

If the cycle of 7 days hasn't changed, then the Sabbath that was observed in the wilderness is still happening there. I just say Jerusalem instead of the wilderness because people might not know which wilderness I was referring to

But once we move any significant distance away from that wilderness, do the scriptures say that we now have a choice? The sunset before that sunset in the wilderness, or the sunset afterwards?

I'm pretty sure there aren't any scriptures that actually talk about this

 

[Leaf473]

There is no indication that at the time of the Judges - people were scurrying around looking for sunset in Jerusalem (a city that did not exist).

What is more - there is no indication that at Sinai - they refused to keep Sabbath until someone first ran accross the wilderness to see when sunset happened in Jerusalem.

And in Gen 2:2-3 we don't see Adam and Eve leaving Eden to find out what time sunset would be in the geographic location of future Jerusalem.

So in other words -- it is difficult to take that idea with more than a grain of salt given the Bible details such as they are.

Hi BobRyan, good to hear from you again

I talk about why I said "Jerusalem" just above in post #73

We can replace Jerusalem with "the wilderness".

 

[JesusFollowerForever]

Well, the seventh day observers I've talked to in the past refer to this passage

Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 16:23 - New American Standard Bible

then he said to them, “This is what the LORD meant: Tomorrow is a Sabbath observance, a holy Sabbath to the LORD. Bake what you will bake and boil what you will boil, and all that is left over put aside to be kept until morning.”

www.biblegateway.com

If the cycle of 7 days hasn't changed, then the Sabbath that was observed in the wilderness is still happening there. I just say Jerusalem instead of the wilderness because people might not know which wilderness I was referring to

But once we move any significant distance away from that wilderness, do the scriptures say that we now have a choice? The sunset before that sunset in the wilderness, or the sunset afterwards?

I'm pretty sure there aren't any scriptures that actually talk about this

These kind of teachings are reminiscent of the pharisees, or a sect who invent new rules that are not scriptural, the verse mentioned has no bearing on a specific time or location for honouring the sabbath, it was just telling the people to prepare more food for the next day so they would not have to go out and find food or prepare food on the sabbath so they could rest.

 

[HIM]

Speaking of the Sabbath- Happy Sabbath @HIM @JesusFollowerForever @Freth @eleos1954 @BobRyan and to all- Hope you all have a very blessed Sabbath!

Thank you Sabbath Blessings! Happy Sabbath to you and everyone else as well!

So we Pray. Father God thank you for your peace and completeness that you have availed to us in Christ Jesus! Thank You for making our paths straight so we know which way to go in and through Him! We pray that we see Your Light, Christ Jesus shine brighter every second of our lives. That Your love been seen and felt by us and all who You place in our Path that You have set, Christ Jesus!
Thank You for all You do and done amen!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We have discussed this already many times cant you believe scripture? All of the bible says to follow the sabbath and not to forget it, except a few verse from Paul that seem to say something else. Do you honestly think the writings from Paul a servant, to be superior to Jesus or even GOD who wrote the 10 commandments with his Finger on Stone a PERMANENT media?

Sadly, most are misquoting Paul. Paul himself kept every Sabbath Acts 18:4 and never taught we can break God's commandments, he taught keeping them is what matters 1 Cor 7:19. Col 2:16 is one of the most mis-quoted scriptures used against obeying God's 4th commandment. Col 2:14KJV gives the context and its not about the weekly Sabbath that started at Creation which is not a shadow of anything, it was part of God's perfect plan before sin. It's why Paul's writings came with a warning for good reason 2 Peter 3:16 people twist to their own destruction when they pit Paul's teachings against the teachings of Jesus. Jesus said not to break or teach others to break the least of these commandments and in doing so one would be in fear of sin and judgement. Mat 5:19-30 People need to take the warning more seriously. If it comes to what God personally wrote with His own finger and blessed and made holy and told us to Remember- trying to do away with it, I would want a thus saith the Lord attached. All the thus saith the Lord's concerning God's Sabbath in scriptures are for us to keep and not profane and the apostles says we ought to obey God over man.


God bless!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hello,
It seems you completely miss my point,
I do not raise any arguments against keeping ALL God’s commandment, my point is, I worry about judging and condemning others that don’t keep the Sabbath and not keeping it as clearly defined in the Bible, which I have never seen anyone do, not even one. If you claim to keep the Sabbath and,
Kindle a fire, (stove, light switch, start a car, etc) a man was stoned for violating this.
Buy or sell, (rent, internet, utilities, services etc.) also a stoning offense.
Change God’s law even a little, (start/stop the Sabbath anytime at all except Friday at sundown till Saturday at sundown) Keeping the Sabbath North of the arctic circle means there is no Sabbath for about two months in the summer and the Sabbath doesn’t end for about two months in the winter, simply not possible to even survive North of the arctic circle in the winter unless we change God’s law.
Check out the sunrise/sunset chart at Barrow Alaska.
It’s certain that if I condemn the Pope for changing the day and then doing the same, God will judge me also. So I don’t.
My Lord Jesus is my rest! Every day.

Perhaps its not me who is missing the point.

Did you know committing adultery also carried a death sentence under the theocracy . Leviticus 20:10 Shall we pick that commandment apart as well and start committing adultery. Not wise imho.

It's easy to find ways to disobey one of God's commandments, but the challenge is how do we find ways to obey God. If we are looking for reasons not to obey, one will miss the whole purpose of why God gave the commandment in the first place.

Christ spelled out plainly the purpose of the Sabbath commandment and the reason its so important this is where I place my focus

Exo 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Isa 58:“If you turn away your foot from the Sabbath,
From doing your pleasure on My holy day,
And call the Sabbath a delight,
The holy day of the Lord honorable,
And shall honor Him, not doing your own ways,
Nor finding your own pleasure,
Nor speaking your own words,
14 Then you shall delight yourself in the Lord;
And I will cause you to ride on the high hills of the earth,
And feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father.
The mouth of the Lord has spoken.”

Isa 56:1 Thus says the Lord:

“Keep justice, and do righteousness,
For My salvation is about to come,
And My righteousness to be revealed.
2 Blessed is the man who does this,
And the son of man who lays hold on it;
Who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And keeps his hand from doing any evil.”

6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant

Eze 20:12 12 Moreover I also gave them My Sabbaths, to be a sign between them and Me, that they might know that I am the Lord who sanctifies them.

Eze 20:20 hallow My Sabbaths, and they will be a sign between Me and you, that you may know that I am the Lord your God.’

Mat 2:27 And He said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man,

God created man first in His image Gen 1:26 and then gave man His Sabbath Gen 2:1-3 to bless and sanctify. Only God can sanctify us, and sad so many reject this blessing.

 

[Leaf473]

These kind of teachings are reminiscent of the pharisees, or a sect who invent new rules that are not scriptural, the verse mentioned has no bearing on a specific time or location for honouring the sabbath, it was just telling the people to prepare more food for the next day so they would not have to go out and find food or prepare food on the sabbath so they could rest.

Okay... Then I'm hearing that seventh day observers don't have a fixed seventh day to start with. Am I understanding that right?

My impression from Seventh-Day observers was that it was important to observe a particular seventh day. We were not to just pick one 24-hour period out of every seven 24-hour periods.

Maybe it would help our mutual understanding if I put it this way:
The sun sets in the Philippines every 24 hours
(I believe there are a lot of seventh day observers there).
12 hours before that, there was a sunset here on the east side of the USA, where I live.
There will also be a sunset where I live 12 hours after the one in the Philippines.

Which sunset in the USA marks the correct beginning of the seventh day? Or does it matter? Do we in the USA have a choice? Should those in the Philippines have a choice?

Again, I'm asking for scripture-based answers

Now, if I misunderstood the seventh Day observer position, and we can pick either sunset to use, then thanks for your input

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes it does. But I would think you would try to follow the instructions of your Lord.

The sabbath is for Jews. I'm not a Jew.

Yet Jesus said- the Sabbath is made for man, and the word here means mankind- anthrópos, a man, human, mankind. I am assuming you are part of the human race.

 

[HIM]

Col 2:16 makes it very clear .



dan p

You are misrepresenting those text.