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VOTE HOW MANY BELIEVE IN A PRE TRIBULATION HOPE/RAPTURE ?

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BelieveItOarKnot

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What you are saying is good for nothing. Satan is not alone. What you are saying is good for nothing, except to be a stumblingblock.

Satan is not alone, he has legions with him, and you should know that the great Dragon is the old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world. Multitudes are placed /situated in his devilish body having 7 heads and 10 horns, and 7 crowns upon his heads, and his TAIL is the most terrible among GOD's people, as prophesied Isaiah 9:15-16 combined with 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. But he will be cast out from this current heavenly environment (Ephesians 1:3-8) into the earth, and his messengers will be cast down with him.

Everyone who posts what is not true according the Word of GOD, they are placed/situated in the TAIL of the red Dragon working for for him against the true believers-Revelation 12:9.

Be careful or else get ready
2 cor 5:

19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.

You have nowhere left to count other than our real enemy, Satan

If you claim you are exempt from sin and temptations of the devil, head on in that direction and we'll see how far your position will get you in comparison to scriptural facts
 
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keras

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We are kept from entering the Trib.
Revelation 12 tells us where the Christian peoples will be when the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, takes place during the final; 42 months of this age. Rev 12:14 - the faithful Christians kept safe in a distant earth location. Reb 12:17 - those Christians who violated the Covenant, as Daniel 11:32 explains, must remain and undergo persecution.
There will be no rapture removal to heaven for anyone.
You, once again, have not refuted what I wrote.
Nothing scriptural has been presented by you; to prove your belief of a rapture to heaven.
So, how can I refute it, when you have nothing to support a rapture? That such a thing is false teaching, is evident by the total lack of scriptural for it and the many verses saying how we must endure until the end.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Revelation 12 tells us where the Christian peoples will be when the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, takes place during the final; 42 months of this age. Rev 12:14 - the faithful Christians kept safe in a distant earth location. Reb 12:17 - those Christians who violated the Covenant, as Daniel 11:32 explains, must remain and undergo persecution.
There will be no rapture removal to heaven for anyone.

Nothing scriptural has been presented by you; to prove your belief of a rapture to heaven.
So, how can I refute it, when you have nothing to support a rapture? That such a thing is false teaching, is evident by the total lack of scriptural for it and the many verses saying how we must endure until the end.
What Jesus said in Rev 3:10, "I will keep you from the hour of trial," means no believers will enter the Trib. You are unwilling to admit to that clearly stated biblical truth. Therefore, what you say are Christians in Rev 12 implies that they enter the Trib as Christians. That's biblically impossible due to what Jesus said in Rev 3:10. Why don't you believe what Jesus said in Rev 3:10? You keep ignoring that truth and the truth of the hard work of the 144k in the 1st half and into the 2nd half of the Trib, where the 2W also do their awesome ministry.

You still ignore that Daniel's 70th week is only seven consecutive years long (Daniel 9:27). You therefore operate on the falsehood that seals 1 - 5 are already open, when Daniel 9:27 makes that biblically impossible.

Rev 6:15-17 thoroughly prove that no believers are on Earth. Everyone on Earth is present for the 6th seal, and everyone behaves as only unbelievers would behave. Why do you ignore that crystal clear biblical evidence? Therefore, the martyrs in Rev 12 and 13 can ONLY BE new converts from the hard work of the 144k and/or the 2W. The same is true of Rev 6:10. Those folks HAVE TO BE new converts who are martyred, because no believers enter the Trib.

Keras, when you admit to the obvious biblical truths I just cited, all will fall into place with perfect orderliness in regards to who truly dwells on Earth during the Trib.
 
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keras

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What Jesus said in Rev 3:10, "I will keep you from the hour of trial," means no believers will enter the Trib.
Rev 3:10 does not mean that at all.
You are making the serious mistake of adding to the Book of Revelation.
Keras, when you admit to the obvious biblical truths I just cited, all will fall into place with perfect orderliness in regards to who truly dwells on Earth during the Trib.
What is an obvious Bible truth, is that we all must endure the testing and trials yet to come, in order for the wicked peoples to be destroyed and for us to prove our faith; our worthiness to go with Jesus into the Millennium. Romans 8:18
 
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Oseas

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2 cor 5:

19 that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people’s sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation.
John 3:16-18
16 - GOD so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
18 He that believeth on JESUS is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the NAME of the only begotten Son of GOD-JESUS.
JESUS is the stone which was set at nought of the builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other NAME under heaven(except JESUS, GOD made flesh) given among men, whereby we must be saved-Acts 4-11-12.
By the way, the Devil, also called Satan, through his esoteric and kabbalistic sons-John 8:44-45 combined with Matthew 23:33-35, has added in the book of the Lord, the Bible, 10 FICTITIOUS NAMES of GOD or NICKNAMES:
they are YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, HaShem, Adonai, Yehovah, Elohim, Yahusha, YEHװshia, YEHװvah. In fact, these are the NAMES of the Devil, the god of the murderers and esoteric and kabbalistic sons of Devil-John 8:41-42 and 44-45 combined with Matthew 23: 33-35, take a look.

The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?

You have nowhere left to count other than our real enemy, Satan
In fact, the battle is against three unclean spirits like frogs, a SATANIC TRINITY, why frogs? Revelation 16:13-15
13 And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the MOUTH of the Dragon-the false messiah of the Jews-Revelation 13:11 combined with 2Thessalonians 2:3-12(having 7 heads, 10 horns and a TAIL), and out of the MOUTH of the Beast(the MAN Beast of sea, whose headquarter is in Rome-Italy, and out of the MOUTH of the False Prophet- a satanic expert in the Torah.

14 For they are the spirits of devil(demons), working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of this (current) great Day of GOD Almighty-Revelation 1:8-, that is the seventh and last Day, or seventh and last millennium. If any man have an ear, let him hear.

Here's the warn:
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Be careful or else get ready

If you claim you are exempt from sin and temptations of the devil, head on in that direction and we'll see how far your position will get you in comparison to scriptural facts
2Timothy 3:13-17
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of GOD, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of GOD may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
13 But evil men and seducers (2CORINTHIANS 11:13-15)shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Rev 3:10 does not mean that at all.
You are making the serious mistake of adding to the Book of Revelation.

What is an obvious Bible truth, is that we all must endure the testing and trials yet to come, in order for the wicked peoples to be destroyed and for us to prove our faith; our worthiness to go with Jesus into the Millennium. Romans 8:18
The "hour of TRIAL" in Rev 3:10 pertains to 21 JUDGMENTS against "those" who will be TRIED via 21 JUDGMENTS of God's wrath in the 7-year Trib.

Jesus says in Rev 3:10, "I will keep YOU from the hour of trial." Jesus was referring exclusively to believers when He said that. We believers will NOT enter the Trib.

In Rev 3:10, "you" only refers to believers. "Those" only refers to unbelievers ("those who dwell on the earth").

Jesus clearly meant that we believers will not enter the Trib. Why would forgiven believers be subjected to 21 judgments of God's wrath in the 7-year Trib? Romans 8:1-2 (NIV): Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death.

Your citation of Romans 8:18 pertains only to our "present sufferings." It has nothing to do with any alleged sufferings in the future. 1 Th 1:10 (ESV): and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, Jesus who delivers us from the wrath to come.

How is it that any believers enter the Trib when in Rev 6:15-17, "everyone" on Earth is assembled and 100% of those folks prove they are unbelievers?
 
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Larry H.

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Revelation 12 tells us where the Christian peoples will be when the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls, takes place during the final; 42 months of this age. Rev 12:14 - the faithful Christians kept safe in a distant earth location. Reb 12:17 - those Christians who violated the Covenant, as Daniel 11:32 explains, must remain and undergo persecution.
There will be no rapture removal to heaven for anyone.

Nothing scriptural has been presented by you; to prove your belief of a rapture to heaven.
So, how can I refute it, when you have nothing to support a rapture? That such a thing is false teaching, is evident by the total lack of scriptural for it and the many verses saying how we must endure until the end.
I find your and Jeffrey's discussion very interesting. I would like to ask some questions if I may concerning your belief. Please do not take them as being argumentative because they are only for my information concerning a "Revelation 101" curriculum I wrote. Rest assured of one thing I will not do when it comes to God's word. That is argue with another person, especially another brother or sister in Christ. First let me ask. In Rev. 14:14-15 there seems to be a reaping (or rapture as some may call it) of the earth. This seems to be about midway the Tribulation verifying the 3 1/2 years of protection mentioned twice in Revelation. This also seemed to be references by Paul in 1 Thess 4:16-17 and 1 Cor. 15:52. Also this seems to be verified by the 7 bowls being poured out on the earth with no mention of anyone on earth from Rev 16 on, except for satan, those deceived by satan and satan's elite. What is your position on this. Thank You and God bless
 
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Larry H.

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What Jesus said in Rev 3:10, "I will keep you from the hour of trial," means no believers will enter the Trib. You are unwilling to admit to that clearly stated biblical truth. Therefore, what you say are Christians in Rev 12 implies that they enter the Trib as Christians. That's biblically impossible due to what Jesus said in Rev 3:10. Why don't you believe what Jesus said in Rev 3:10? You keep ignoring that truth and the truth of the hard work of the 144k in the 1st half and into the 2nd half of the Trib, where the 2W also do their awesome ministry.

You still ignore that Daniel's 70th week is only seven consecutive years long (Daniel 9:27). You therefore operate on the falsehood that seals 1 - 5 are already open, when Daniel 9:27 makes that biblically impossible.

Rev 6:15-17 thoroughly prove that no believers are on Earth. Everyone on Earth is present for the 6th seal, and everyone behaves as only unbelievers would behave. Why do you ignore that crystal clear biblical evidence? Therefore, the martyrs in Rev 12 and 13 can ONLY BE new converts from the hard work of the 144k and/or the 2W. The same is true of Rev 6:10. Those folks HAVE TO BE new converts who are martyred, because no believers enter the Trib.

Keras, when you admit to the obvious biblical truths I just cited, all will fall into place with perfect orderliness in regards to who truly dwells on Earth during the Trib.
I find your and Keras' discussion very interesting. I would like to ask some questions if I may concerning your belief. Please do not take them as being argumentative because they are only for my information concerning a "Revelation 101" curriculum I wrote. Rest assured of one thing I will not do when it comes to God's word. That is argue with another person, especially another brother or sister in Christ. First let me ask What other scriptures did you reference to verify your interpretation of Rev. 3:10 and Rev. 6:10. In Dan 9:27 who was the covenant confirmed with and who was it that was allowed to make sacrifices and offerings for 3 1/2 of the 7. Also, If there were no believers on earth after rev. 6:15, why did a higher angel stop the 4 angels from releasing destructive winds on the entire earth in 7:3 and where do you believe the 144k were before they received the seal of God. Thank you and God bless
 
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keras

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How is it that any believers enter the Trib when in Rev 6:15-17, "everyone" on Earth is assembled and 100% of those folks prove they are unbelievers?
How can it be that Christians are now worthy of rescue/removal/rapture, before the fiery trial that 1 Peter 4:12 describes?

It is just your wrong assumption that the people described in Revelation 6:15, are all unbelievers. You first must show why/when/how, the believers are gone.
The whole belief system of the pre-trib rapture to heaven believers is built on a non-existent foundation.
 
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keras

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In Rev. 14:14-15 there seems to be a reaping (or rapture as some may call it) of the earth. This seems to be about midway the Tribulation verifying the 3 1/2 years of protection mentioned twice in Revelation. This also seemed to be references by Paul in 1 Thess 4:16-17 and 1 Cor. 15:52. Also this seems to be verified by the 7 bowls being poured out on the earth with no mention of anyone on earth from Rev 16 on, except for satan, those deceived by satan and satan's elite. What is your position on this.
Wow! At last some feedback. I have persisted in this discussion because I know there are many who read these threads, But very few comment, because as I see it; they are torn between what they have been taught and believe and what I present which refutes the 'rapture' theory.

Your question is answered by scripture:
Daniel 7:25......Gods holy peoples are present when the Anti-Christ 'beast' has world control.
Revelation 13:5-7 confirms it.

Revelation 12:14 tells us exactly what the Lord will do for His faithful peoples at that time. Taken to a safe place on earth.
Revelation 12:17 also refers to Christian peoples. They will be the 'many' referred to in Daniel 9:27 and by their agreement to a 7 year peace treaty with the AC, they will have violated the Covenant between the Lord and the Christians. Daniel 11:32
They must remain under the control of the AC and if they do keep their faith in Jesus, they are most likely to have their heads chopped off. But their death as martyrs, means that Jesus will resurrect them at His glorious Return. Revelation 20:4

You do seem confused about the final 7 years of the age, The first half will be peaceful, so it is not mentioned in Revelation. Only the second half; of the 1260 days, or the 42 months, or the 3 1/2 years are Prophesied and described in Revelation.
Jesus will Return at the exact completion of the 7 years, commencing with the signing of that peace treaty. Daniel 9:27 The additional days; Daniel 12:11-12, come after the Return, as the fulfilment of appointed Days; Atonement and Hamakua.
 
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BelieveItOarKnot

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By the way, the Devil, also called Satan, through his esoteric and kabbalistic sons-John 8:44-45 combined with Matthew 23:33-35, has added in the book of the Lord, the Bible, 10 FICTITIOUS NAMES of GOD or NICKNAMES: they are YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, HaShem, Adonai, Yehovah, Elohim, Yahusha, YEHװshia, YEHװvah. In fact, these are the NAMES of the Devil, the god of the murderers and esoteric and kabbalistic sons of Devil-John 8:41-42 and 44-45 combined with Matthew 23: 33-35, take a look.

Nothing like revealing a word denier ^^^
 
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Oseas

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Revelation 3: Simple to understand:
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

COMMENT:Again:I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world
, but HOW?--> WELL, the Kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever -Revelation 11:15 combined with Luke 20:35-36 among other biblical references.
Verse 18:
And the nations were(will be) angry, and thy WRATH is come(see John 3:36), and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

11 Behold,I come quickly:hold that fast which thou hast,that no man take thy crown.(be careful or else get ready)

12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my GOD, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my GOD, and the name of the city of my GOD, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my GOD: and I will write upon him my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

17
Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19
... be zealous therefore, and repent.
21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.--> Psalms 89:14

22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
 
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Oseas

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By the way, the Devil, also called Satan, through his esoteric and kabbalistic sons-John 8:44-45 combined with Matthew 23:33-35, has added in the book of the Lord, the Bible, 10 FICTITIOUS NAMES of GOD or NICKNAMES: they are YHWH, Yahweh, Jehovah, HaShem, Adonai, Yehovah, Elohim, Yahusha, YEHװshia, YEHװvah. In fact, these are the NAMES of the Devil, the god of the murderers and esoteric and kabbalistic sons of Devil-John 8:41-42 and 44-45 combined with Matthew 23: 33-35, take a look.
Nothing like revealing a word denier ^^^
What matters and prevails is the Word of GOD. The Word is GOD, GOD Himself, self-executing, understand?
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Rev 3:10 does not mean that at all.
You are making the serious mistake of adding to the Book of Revelation.

What is an obvious Bible truth, is that we all must endure the testing and trials yet to come, in order for the wicked peoples to be destroyed and for us to prove our faith; our worthiness to go with Jesus into the Millennium. Romans 8:18

I find your and Keras' discussion very interesting. I would like to ask some questions if I may concerning your belief. Please do not take them as being argumentative because they are only for my information concerning a "Revelation 101" curriculum I wrote. Rest assured of one thing I will not do when it comes to God's word. That is argue with another person, especially another brother or sister in Christ. First let me ask What other scriptures did you reference to verify your interpretation of Rev. 3:10 and Rev. 6:10. In Dan 9:27 who was the covenant confirmed with and who was it that was allowed to make sacrifices and offerings for 3 1/2 of the 7. Also, If there were no believers on earth after rev. 6:15, why did a higher angel stop the 4 angels from releasing destructive winds on the entire earth in 7:3 and where do you believe the 144k were before they received the seal of God. Thank you and God bless
Howdy, Larry. I'm not wanting to argue, as well. I like civil discussions. We should all exhibit a heart of love, all the time.

Here's Rev 3:10 (ESV): Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.

Please note that there are two groups delineated. "You" are believers. "Those" are whom that will dwell on the earth after the pre-Trib rapture. If you examine other uses of the phrase "those who dwell on the earth," in the context of the Trib, they always refer to unbelievers. We see first mention, in the Trib, at Rev 6:10 (ESV): They cried out with a loud voice, “O Sovereign Lord, holy and true, how long before you will judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” Clearly, those who dwell on the earth are unbelievers, in this case they are murderous unbelievers.

Those crying out in Rev 6:10 are the first martyrs who become the first group of the GM (the "great multitude" cited in Rev 7:9). Rev 6:11 speaks of a second group ("fellow servants") that must also be killed as was the first group. That second group is found in Rev 20:4. All of the martyrs in the Trib are new converts by way of the ministries of the 144k (Rev 7:4), and later by the ministry of the 2W (Two Witnesses) cited in Rev 11:3.

To further prove that there are no believers who enter the Trib, "everyone" on the planet gathers for the 6th seal in Rev 6:15-17. All those folks overreact to an alleged sighting of Jesus, and they run in terror to hide in caves and under rocks. Let me ask you: If you were near Jesus in that same environment, would you feel terrorized? Of course not. You would run to Him, instead of running away. Well, "everyone" on the planet is at that 6th seal, and they all exhibit behavior that only smacks of unbelievers. Those verses are concrete proof that no believers are on the planet. That doesn't mean more new converts won't occur. But, as of the 6th seal, "everyone" on the planet is demonstrably an unbeliever.

What Jesus clearly means by His words in Rev 3:10, "I will keep you from the hour of trial," can only be that we believers will not enter the Trib. The greatest proof is in Rev 6:15-17.

There are books in the Bible that don't apply to their position in the Bible. Rev 7 is a good example. There's reason to believer that the 144k are active very early in the Trib, as many new converts come from seals 2 and 4. It is those new converts, as martyrs, who are crying out in Rev 6:10. So, Rev 7 is definitely out of sequence in terms of its position. To further prove this, Rev 7:14 (ESV) says, in part, “These are the ones coming out of the great tribulation. They have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. ---- Rev 7's 144k are active in the Trib in seals 2 and 4, and later in the GT (Great Tribulation). So, they cover at least four-to-five years of the Trib. Therefore, Rev 7 is what is referred to as, "an interlude." That means it's injected into Scripture, but where it's injected, it doesn't only apply there, but earlier and/or later in the Bible. There are other chapters and sections of chapters that are out-of-sequence, as well. It takes quite a grasp of Scripture to recognize them and go with them, accordingly. I'm not claiming to be at that level. I am blessed with two friends that are extremely well-versed in these matters, as both are true Bible scholars, including knowing the Greek writings of Scripture.

When it comes the AC (antichrist), I have only scratched the surface. I therefore can't answer your related questions. I do know this, that the prior history of the antichrist is covered in the book of Daniel.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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Wow! At last some feedback. I have persisted in this discussion because I know there are many who read these threads, But very few comment, because as I see it; they are torn between what they have been taught and believe and what I present which refutes the 'rapture' theory.

Your question is answered by scripture:
Daniel 7:25......Gods holy peoples are present when the Anti-Christ 'beast' has world control.
Revelation 13:5-7 confirms it.

Revelation 12:14 tells us exactly what the Lord will do for His faithful peoples at that time. Taken to a safe place on earth.
Revelation 12:17 also refers to Christian peoples. They will be the 'many' referred to in Daniel 9:27 and by their agreement to a 7 year peace treaty with the AC, they will have violated the Covenant between the Lord and the Christians. Daniel 11:32
They must remain under the control of the AC and if they do keep their faith in Jesus, they are most likely to have their heads chopped off. But their death as martyrs, means that Jesus will resurrect them at His glorious Return. Revelation 20:4

You do seem confused about the final 7 years of the age, The first half will be peaceful, so it is not mentioned in Revelation. Only the second half; of the 1260 days, or the 42 months, or the 3 1/2 years are Prophesied and described in Revelation.
Jesus will Return at the exact completion of the 7 years, commencing with the signing of that peace treaty. Daniel 9:27 The additional days; Daniel 12:11-12, come after the Return, as the fulfilment of appointed Days; Atonement and Hamakua.
Keras, those "Christian peoples" in Rev 12:17 are new converts. Rev 6:15-17 prove that no believers enter the Trib because "everyone" in Rev 6:15-17 proves beyond a shadow of doubt, that they are all unbelievers.

You have not refuted the pre-Trib rapture. You are denying the true meaning of what Jesus said in Rev 3:10, "I will keep you from the hour of trial." Dude, we are raptured straight to Heaven, via Rev 4:1.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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How can it be that Christians are now worthy of rescue/removal/rapture, before the fiery trial that 1 Peter 4:12 describes?

It is just your wrong assumption that the people described in Revelation 6:15, are all unbelievers. You first must show why/when/how, the believers are gone.
The whole belief system of the pre-trib rapture to heaven believers is built on a non-existent foundation.
Keras, you are once again quoting Scripture that is out-of-context. All of 1 Peter 4 is about our daily trials and tribulations as Christians in a wicked world.

I have proven to you that 1 Th 1:10 is Paul's first verse about the pre-Trib rapture. I also have proven to you that early Bible versions spoke directly about a pre-Trib rapture, that is, until KJV decided to come along and falsely revise 2 Th 2:3. You can't refute my write-ups on 1 Th 1:10. You run and hide when I challenge you.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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I find your and Keras' discussion very interesting. I would like to ask some questions if I may concerning your belief. Please do not take them as being argumentative because they are only for my information concerning a "Revelation 101" curriculum I wrote. Rest assured of one thing I will not do when it comes to God's word. That is argue with another person, especially another brother or sister in Christ. First let me ask What other scriptures did you reference to verify your interpretation of Rev. 3:10 and Rev. 6:10. In Dan 9:27 who was the covenant confirmed with and who was it that was allowed to make sacrifices and offerings for 3 1/2 of the 7. Also, If there were no believers on earth after rev. 6:15, why did a higher angel stop the 4 angels from releasing destructive winds on the entire earth in 7:3 and where do you believe the 144k were before they received the seal of God. Thank you and God bless
In Daniel 9:27, I believe that covenant relates to modern times with the attempts by many to get Israel to agree to a "two-state solution." That would end Israel as we know it, if not wipe it off the map. Evil forces are currently at work on pressuring Israel to agree to a two-state solution. I believe that the pre-Trib rapture (Rev 4:1) will occur within 20 years. That means, the Trib could start within 20 years.
 
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Jeffrey Bowden

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How can it be that Christians are now worthy of rescue/removal/rapture, before the fiery trial that 1 Peter 4:12 describes?

It is just your wrong assumption that the people described in Revelation 6:15, are all unbelievers. You first must show why/when/how, the believers are gone.
The whole belief system of the pre-trib rapture to heaven believers is built on a non-existent foundation.
How can it be that you omit verse 13? 1 Peter 4:12-13 (KJV): Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you: 13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

Verse 12 is about the daily challenges of being a disciple. Imagine being the first to go out in an area in ancient Israel, controlled by Pharisees, to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. You will then have great reality on what Peter meant by the "fiery trial" which is to try you. When you share the gospel of Jesus with atheists, please let me know. You will be put through a firey trial that will make you feel as if some strange thing happened to you. I speak from experience. I've done it over and over. Hardcore atheists are pure evil.
 
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Oseas

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Here's Rev 3:10 (ESV): Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

COMMENT:Again:I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, but HOW?--> WELL, the Kingdoms OF THIS WORLD are become the Kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever -Revelation 11:15 combined with Luke 20:35-36 among other biblical references.
Verse 18: And the nations were(will be) angry, and thy WRATH is come(see John 3:36), and the time of the dead, that they should be Judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

11 Behold,I come quickly:hold that fast which thou hast,that no man take thy crown.(be careful or else get ready)
12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my GOD, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my GOD, and the name of the city of my GOD, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my GOD: and I will write upon him my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Daniel 12:6-10
6...How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?


7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by Him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half (1260 days-2nd half of the week); and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the HOLY PEOPLE, all these things shall be finished.
8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed TILL THE TIME OF THE END.

10 Many shall be purified, and made white(THE TRUE BELIEVERS-Revelation 19:7-10, take a look),
AND TRIED; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away(JESUS's sacrifice has lasted around 738,600 days) , and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. (1260 days plus a gap of 30 days=1290 days. Verse 12 -->12 BLESSED is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. -->45 days after the great tribulation

Be careful or else get ready

What Jesus clearly means by His words in Rev 3:10, "I will keep you from the hour of trial," can only be that we believers will not enter the Trib. The greatest proof is in Rev 6:15-17.
No, Revelation 6:15-17 don't give proof of the lies was posted. Who really explains Revelation 6:15 with absolute Truth is Isaiah 2: starting by the verse 10-Enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for fear of the Lord, and for the Glory of His Majesty.
11 The lofty looks of man shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men shall be bowed down, and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that Day.-->the Lord's Day, the seventh and last Day or seventh and last millennium.
12 For the Day of the Lord of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low:

17 And the loftiness of man shall be bowed down, and the haughtiness of men shall be made low: and the Lord alone shall be exalted in that Day. (the current seventh and last Day)

18 And the idols he shall utterly abolish.

19 And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the Lord, and for the Glory of His Majesty, when He ariseth to shake terribly the earth. -->

20 In that Day a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats;
21 To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the Lord, and for the Glory of his Majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. (Be careful or else get ready)
22 Cease ye from man, whose breath is in his nostrils: for wherein is he to be accounted of ?
I am blessed with two friends that are extremely well-versed in these matters, as both are true Bible scholars, including knowing the Greek writings of Scripture.
When it comes the AC (antichrist), I have only scratched the surface. I therefore can't answer your related questions. I do know this, that the prior history of the antichrist is covered in the book of Daniel.
2Timothy 4:3-4
3 The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

1 Timothy 4:1-2
1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly(GOD is Spirit)
, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

The birthplace, or the cradle of Antichrist, was the own Church, unfortunately, see how.
1 John 2:v.18-19
19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

 
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keras

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You have not refuted the pre-Trib rapture.
I have constantly and consistently shown how all of your so called 'rapture' proofs, are wrong. None of them say such a thing and for you to have to keep on bringing up the same verses, just shows how fixated and locked into falsehoods you are.
You are a prime example of the deceived, Matthew 24:4, and of those who believe fables; 2 Timothy 4:3-4
Be careful or else get ready
Be prepared and be watchful.
But practically every Christian has no clue about Gods Plans for our future. Or a wakadoodle and fanciful idea, that has nothing to do with the Prophetic Word.
So; what will soon happen, will be a shock to everyone and that is how the Lord wants it to be and many will fall from lack of faith.

Please cease posting large amounts of scripture. You are only clogging up the threads.
 
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