Israel-Hamas Thread II

[essentialsaltes]

I don't understand. Why were the Hamas terrorists in the neighborhood around the hospital? Didn't they realize they were jeopardizing patients?

I don't understand. Why did the IDF destroy a hospital based on a lie about an enemy command center?

 

[essentialsaltes]

Speaking of al Shifa

Head of Gaza’s al-Shifa Hospital released without charge after months of detention​

The director of Gaza’s al-Shifa Hospital was released from Israeli custody early Monday, apparently without charge, seven months after he was detained on accusations of working with Hamas militants.

Mohamed Abu Salmiya was arrested from a U.N. convoy carrying wounded civilians away from heavy fighting in Gaza City during one of the most indelible chapters of Israel’s nine-month military operation in Gaza, as Israeli officials presented a controversial raid on the al-Shifa medical complex as a crucial war aim.

The Israeli military had accused the medical director of allowing Hamas militants to use the complex as a command and control center.

Israeli authorities issued no statement to accompany his release Monday, and the military did not respond to request for comment.

Abu Salmiya’s whereabouts have been unknown to the public since his arrest. In a news conference upon his return to Gaza, he said he had been tortured frequently and denied access to a lawyer

Abu Salmiya’s release sparked anger among Israeli officials.

Former war cabinet minister Benny Gantz, who resigned last month, said “whoever made this decision lacks judgment and should be fired today.”

Shin Bet, the domestic intelligence service, blamed the release on overcrowding within Israel’s detention system

But the country’s prison service disputed that version of events. “The director of the hospital was not released due to a shortage of detention space,” it said

[They're playing hot potato for the 'crime' of releasing him. But who's responsible for detaining him incommunicado for months without evidence of a crime? Their problem is they can't admit their attack on the hospital was not justified in the first place, because that's tantamount to confessing to a war crime.]

 

[civilwarbuff]

Why did the IDF destroy a hospital based on a lie about an enemy command center?

It is called fog of war.The US went to war with Iraq based on erroneous and incomplete info.
Clinton bombed a pharma plant in Libya for similar reasons.
These justifications for the bombing were disputed by the owners of the plant, the Sudanese government, and other governments. American officials later acknowledged "that the evidence that prompted President Clinton to order the missile strike on the Shifa plant was not as solid as first portrayed. Indeed, officials later said that there was no proof that the plant had been manufacturing or storing nerve gas, as initially suspected by the Americans, or had been linked to Osama bin Laden, who was a resident of Khartoum in the 1980s."[5] The attack took place a week after the Monica Lewinsky scandal and two months after release of the film Wag the Dog, prompting some commentators to describe the attack as a distraction for the public from the scandal.[6] Al-Shifa pharmaceutical factory - Wikipedia
No one ever has all the info to be 100% certain of their decisions.

 

[Valletta]

I don't understand. Why did the IDF destroy a hospital based on a lie about an enemy command center?

You go with the best intelligence you can, it might have been only a sub-command center. It turned out enough of Hamas was there to have a two week battle with Israeli troops. With the success at Shifa and other locations the major groups of Hamas have now been defeated. It will be a matter of flushing out the smaller groups. This is a critical point for Gazans. Will they turn in Hamas terrorists or will they support them? Their fate is now in their own hands.

 

[essentialsaltes]

It turned out enough of Hamas was there

in the neighborhood.

 

[Valletta]

in the neighborhood.

Sadly the reality is that Israel needs to go where Hamas hides.

 

[Philip_B]

Sadly the reality is that Israel needs to go where Hamas hides.

why?

On the neighbourhood question, the Gaza Strip ain't that big and could be considered a neighbourhood.

 

[rjs330]

Two things, which I have said before, the promise in Genesis 17 is to the descendants of Abraham, not simply to Israel, and that promise is related to Canaan, not Philistia which is a very near equivalent to the Gaza Strip.

Thats incorrect.

 

[Pommer]

Thats incorrect.

The Gaza strip is about as large in area as the city of Detroit.

 

[rjs330]

The Gaza strip is about as large in area as the city of Detroit.

Yes and it was part of area given to the Israelites.

 

[Pommer]

Yes and it was part of area given to the Israelites.

I’m sorry, but no, this is incorrect.

 

[rjs330]

I’m sorry, but no, this is incorrect.

Yes it is. When you read the promise given to Abraham Isaac and Jacob the land was promised to them. It was part of what was given. What was give was the land all the way to the Mediteranian Sea. Which included the area we now call Gaza. The Gaza area has been a thorn in the side of Israel forever. It was conquered by Israel and held briefly. The Philistines were never fully driven out of the land as God commanded and so it remained a problem for Israel for a long time. And Israel is still dealing with it today. During the Naccabean Period Jonathan controlled the area.

Gaza was judged by God and the prophets of the OT prophesied its destruction. It was destroyed twice, once by Assyria and then by Akexander the Great.

 

[Pommer]

Yes it is. When you read the promise given to Abraham Isaac and Jacob the land was promised to them. It was part of what was given. What was give was the land all the way to the Mediteranian Sea. Which included the area we now call Gaza. The Gaza area has been a thorn in the side of Israel forever. It was conquered by Israel and held briefly. The Philistines were never fully driven out of the land as God commanded and so it remained a problem for Israel for a long time. And Israel is still dealing with it today. During the Naccabean Period Jonathan controlled the area.

Gaza was judged by God and the prophets of the OT prophesied its destruction. It was destroyed twice, once by Assyria and then by Akexander the Great.

Oh, Philistia was “given”, by which you meant the Israelites only had to conquer it?

And then they didn’t, really, (as you said, the Philistines were always a thorn in Israelites’ side), and if the modern Israel subdues and conquers Gaza they’re only fulfilling the Biblical mandate God gave them three millennia ago?

It must be nice to have a mandate from the Almighty with an open ended “date of completion”.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Two things, which I have said before, the promise in Genesis 17 is to the descendants of Abraham, not simply to Israel, and that promise is related to Canaan, not Philistia which is a very near equivalent to the Gaza Strip.

Except being Hebrew/Jewish is passed from the mother not the father. So, while Ishmael may be a descendant of Abraham he is not an heir to God's promise to the Hebrews. Hagar, his mother, was Egyptian not Hebrew.

 

[Philip_B]

Except being Hebrew/Jewish is passed from the mother not the father. So, while Ishmael may be a descendant of Abraham he is not an heir to God's promise to the Hebrews. Hagar, his mother, was Egyptian not Hebrew.

And I take it from that we will continue to ignore Kenturah and her descendants.

 

[rjs330]

Oh, Philistia was “given”, by which you meant the Israelites only had to conquer it?

And then they didn’t, really, (as you said, the Philistines were always a thorn in Israelites’ side), and if the modern Israel subdues and conquers Gaza they’re only fulfilling the Biblical mandate God gave them three millennia ago?

It must be nice to have a mandate from the Almighty with an open ended “date of completion”.

I was proving rhat you were wrong and that it was given to them. Israel had to take rhe land from everyone. And they did. They even took it from the phillistines, but failed to expell them as commanded. I don't care about your sarcastic comments. I was right that it was part of the land given to them. You were incorrect

 

[Philip_B]

I was proving rhat you were wrong and that it was given to them. Israel had to take rhe land from everyone. And they did. They even took it from the phillistines, but failed to expell them as commanded. I don't care about your sarcastic comments. I was right that it was part of the land given to them. You were incorrect

Philistia was not part of the land of Caanan

 

[rjs330]

Philistia was not part of the land of Caanan

It was part of rhe land given to them. Everything to the sea. Which covers this area.

 

[Philip_B]

It was part of rhe land given to them. Everything to the sea. Which covers this area.

Genesis 17, the promised land is clear about Caanan, so not philistia

 

[Pommer]

I was proving rhat you were wrong and that it was given to them. Israel had to take rhe land from everyone. And they did. They even took it from the phillistines, but failed to expell them as commanded. I don't care about your sarcastic comments. I was right that it was part of the land given to them. You were incorrect

God gave the Israelites an empire with “some assembly required” but didn’t really care if they got this done earlier or now?