WHAT IS 1 PETER 3:21 REALLY SATING TO US ??

[Dan Perez]

Yes it does. Judah and Israel are distinct there yes?
I already gave you verses for the Nations.

Why not repeat it as you had a long reply ?

If you mean Matt 28:19 , then what does NATION // ETHNOS mean , be careful !!

dan p

 

[ralliann]

Why not repeat it as you had a long reply ?

Repeat what?

If you mean Matt 28:19 , then what does NATION // ETHNOS mean , be careful !!

dan p

Careful what? It means nations.

 

[Dan Perez]

Repeat what?


Careful what? It means nations.

Your thoughts on John 11:48 mean ?

It says and the Romans shall come and take away BOTH our Place and NATION // ETHNOS Perish !!

Who's Nation are they talking about , as verse 47 says who they are , chief priest and the Pharisees .

Then in verse 50 , Nor consider that it is expedient for us , that one man should die for the people , that the WHOLE NATION // ETHNOS perish not .

Verse 51 says who that man is , that is Jesus should DIE for that NATION // ETHNOS .

dan p

 

[ralliann]

Your thoughts on John 11:48 mean ?

It says and the Romans shall come and take away BOTH our Place and NATION // ETHNOS Perish !!

Who's Nation are they talking about , as verse 47 says who they are , chief priest and the Pharisees .

Then in verse 50 , Nor consider that it is expedient for us , that one man should die for the people , that the WHOLE NATION // ETHNOS perish not .

Verse 51 says who that man is , that is Jesus should DIE for that NATION // ETHNOS .

dan p

Yes??? What happened to that nation? Under a curse...

Joh 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

What nation was redeemed?
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

How is this nation formed?
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

 

[Dan Perez]

Yes??? What happened to that nation? Under a curse...

Joh 11:51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Gal 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

What nation was redeemed?
1Pe 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

How is this nation formed?
16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.

I think that we were talking about the Greek word NATION // ETHNOS and its many meaning , and what are its meaning ?

dan p

 

[ralliann]

I think that we were talking about the Greek word NATION // ETHNOS and its many meaning , and what are its meaning ?

dan p

Yeah. And I thought I gave some. But actually, my byzantine Greek has ETHNOUS, for jn. 11:48
Jn 11:51 Is ETHNOS, as well as 2 Pet. 2:9 ETHNOS. I don't know what difference between the two, not a Greek scholar.

 

[Dan Perez]

Yeah. And I thought I gave some. But actually, my byzantine Greek has ETHNOUS, for jn. 11:48
Jn 11:51 Is ETHNOS, as well as 2 Pet. 2:9 ETHNOS. I don't know what difference between the two, not a Greek scholar.

If just check many Greek words , ALL will see that many Greek words have more than one meaning .

NATION // ETHNOS can be translated by Gentile , Heathen , Israel , people , Nation ,

And Matt 28:19 and especially Matt 28: and 29 is speaking to JEW that are scattered , all over the world and are to be taught what I have whatsoever I have commanded you , is then all Jews .

All the 4 gospels were written to Israel . period

dan p

 

[ralliann]

If just check many Greek words , ALL will see that many Greek words have more than one meaning .

NATION // ETHNOS can be translated by Gentile , Heathen , Israel , people , Nation ,

And Matt 28:19 and especially Matt 28: and 29 is speaking to JEW that are scattered , all over the world and are to be taught what I have whatsoever I have commanded you , is then all Jews .

All the 4 gospels were written to Israel . period

dan p

I don't deny that it was to Jew's first. Jesus was fulfilling the law, carnal elements intact. For a remnant subject to those carnal elements to escape the coming wrath coming upon that people.

But I suspect there was a slow revelation of the extent the carnal commands were disannulled. Traditionally called "the transition" period, until Cornelius...

Ac 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.

Mt 23:15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

The apostles themselves did not realize, they were to do anything other than make proselytes of Gentiles, like judaism did under the law (until Cornelius , they were stunned) as they were preaching in the synagogues among the jew's. a race to escape the wrath coming upon Jew's....
So why would we see anything in the Gospel's any way other than that? Because it was a race to save a remnant at that time.....

If they did not know, why would anyone expect to find it in the gospels? Furthermore The resurrected Christ appeared among them 40 days teaching them, and they still did not know. Apostles to the Jew's.....a Remnant
Paul an apostle called to the nations,given revelation and wisdom concerning the nations. He did not go up the twelve, rather received it by revelation.

 

[Palmfever]

1 Pe 3:20-21 states that baptism is a symbol of that which saves; i.e., death in Christ to rise to a new life. (Ro 6:1-7).

As Christ stated when questioned by John on His baptism:
13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.
14 But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and you come to me?
15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Allow it to be so now: for it becomes us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he allowed him.
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him.

First time that the Greek words BAPTISM , BAPTISMA , BAPTO , and BAPTIZED and BAPTISMS , are just symbolism !!

dan p

The believers in Samaria had accepted Christ and been Baptized. They believed the Gospel, accepted Christ and were baptized. They were saved, Yet, No Spirit.

Acts, 8:9 Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, 10 and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is rightly called the Great Power of God.” 11 They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his sorcery. 12 But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. 13 Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.

14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. 15 When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16 because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 17 Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

 

[Dan Perez]

Yeah. And I thought I gave some. But actually, my byzantine Greek has ETHNOUS, for jn. 11:48
Jn 11:51 Is ETHNOS, as well as 2 Pet. 2:9 ETHNOS. I don't know what difference between the two, not a Greek scholar.

And you can use any way you think , But I only use the KJV , PERIOD !!

John 11:48 Greek word NATION // IS ETHNOS .

Also in verse 48 the Greek word TAKE AWAY // is AIRO and is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD and that means , you better believe it and is in the n Greek PLURAL /.

Your thoughts as to why it is the FUTURE TENSE ??

dan p

 

[ralliann]

And you can use any way you think , But I only use the KJV , PERIOD !!

Ok, so you will. Mine has ETHNOUS, so no point in going on about it. I have a the Byzentine, I do not have the Greek text used for the King James to look at the actual Greek they used, Nor any way to compare them with the Greek old covenant so....
Have a good day...

John 11:48 Greek word NATION // IS ETHNOS .

Also in verse 48 the Greek word TAKE AWAY // is AIRO and is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD and that means , you better believe it and is in the n Greek PLURAL /.

In the lxx it agrees with the Hebrew

05375 נשׂא nasa’ naw-saw’ or נסה nacah (#Ps 4:6) naw-saw’

a primitive root; v; [BDB-669b] {See TWOT on 1421}

AV-(bare, lift, etc … ) up 219, bear 115, take 58, bare 34, carry 30, (take, carry) … away 22, borne 22, armourbearer 18, forgive 16, accept 12, exalt 8, regard 5, obtained 4, respect 3, misc 74; 654

1) to lift, bear up, carry, take
1a) (Qal)
1a1) to lift, lift up
1a2) to bear, carry, support, sustain, endure
1a3) to take, take away, carry off, forgive
1b) (Niphal)
1b1) to be lifted up, be exalted
1b2) to lift oneself up, rise up
1b3) to be borne, be carried
1b4) to be taken away, be carried off, be swept away
1c) (Piel)
1c1) to lift up, exalt, support, aid, assist
1c2) to desire, long (fig.)
1c3) to carry, bear continuously
1c4) to take, take away
1d) (Hithpael) to lift oneself up, exalt oneself
1e) (Hiphil)
1e1) to cause one to bear (iniquity)
1e2) to cause to bring, have brought

Your thoughts as to why it is the FUTURE TENSE ??

"Take away"
both
our "Place" in the Greek Lxx agrees with

04725 מקום maqowm maw-kome’ or מקם maqom maw-kome’ also (fem.) מקומה mᵉqowmah mek-o-mah’ מקמה mᵉqomah mek-o-mah’

from 06965; n m; [BDB-879b] {See TWOT on 1999 @@ "1999h"}

AV-place 391, home 3, room 3, whithersoever 2, open 1, space 1, country 1; 402

1) standing place, place
1a) standing place, station, post, office
1b) place, place of human abode
1c) city, land, region
1d) place, locality, spot
1e) space, room, distance
1f) region, quarter, direction
1g) give place to, instead of

And you can use any way you think , But I only use the KJV , PERIOD !!

John 11:48 Greek word NATION // IS ETHNOS .

Also in verse 48 the Greek word TAKE AWAY // is AIRO and is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , ACTIVE VOICE and in the INDICATIVE MOOD and that means , you better believe it and is in the n Greek PLURAL /.

Your thoughts as to why it is the FUTURE TENSE ??

dan p

Their place and nation.....
What about it? I really would like what it is your wanting out of this please....
What is their place?
We know a remnant was saved, the rest were blinded.

 

[ralliann]

All the way until Jesus Returns ......

Well I don't know when and how God will "take away" Israel's sin in Christ. But, I believe he will. There is a good and just purpose to all of it. The Apostolic church, the remnant saved, the Israel of God.

 

[ralliann]

By the blood of Jesus.

Yes, but when and how he brings them to faith to receive that is what I am talking about...

There is no other way.

Exactly, that is received by faith. They become members of the new covenant, the fullness of promises in Christ to Abraham.

This is clear and plain and in harmony with all Scripture as Revealed by the Creator.
When? Soon. As written already in the first century: brethren, we are in the last hour.....

Agreed.

 

[Dan Perez]

Well I don't know when and how God will "take away" Israel's sin in Christ. But, I believe he will. There is a good and just purpose to all of it. The Apostolic church, the remnant saved, the Israel of God.

It is very easy and EZE 36:25 tell all exactly how it will happen .

Then will I SPRINKLE // ZARAQ , WATER a verb in the QAL , in the Hebrew PERFECT TENSE , in the SINGULAR .

Clean // TAOR , is in the PLURAL and in the ABSOLUTE , means it will happen

WATER // MAYIM is also in the PLURAL and in the Hebrew , ABSOLUTE

UPON YOU // AL , also in the PLURAL and in the ABSOLUTE

AND YOU WILL BE CLEAN // TAHER a verb in the QAL , means to turn back

FROM ALL // KOL , in the SINGULAR


YOUR FILTHNESS // IN THE Plural

YOUR IDOLS // GILLUL , in the Plural

WILL I CLEANSE // TAHER a verb in the PIEL , means to cause to know and is in the Hebrew , IMPERFET TENSE in the SINGULAR .


YOU // ET , is in the Plural .

By the Way , SPRINKLING is just another form of Water baptism .

dan p

 

[ralliann]

It is very easy and EZE 36:25 tell all exactly how it will happen .

Then will I SPRINKLE // ZARAQ , WATER a verb in the QAL , in the Hebrew PERFECT TENSE , in the SINGULAR .

Clean // TAOR , is in the PLURAL and in the ABSOLUTE , means it will happen

WATER // MAYIM is also in the PLURAL and in the Hebrew , ABSOLUTE

UPON YOU // AL , also in the PLURAL and in the ABSOLUTE

AND YOU WILL BE CLEAN // TAHER a verb in the QAL , means to turn back

FROM ALL // KOL , in the SINGULAR


YOUR FILTHNESS // IN THE Plural

YOUR IDOLS // GILLUL , in the Plural

WILL I CLEANSE // TAHER a verb in the PIEL , means to cause to know and is in the Hebrew , IMPERFET TENSE in the SINGULAR .


YOU // ET , is in the Plural .

By the Way , SPRINKLING is just another form of Water baptism .

dan p

This does not help me. But yeah someone had a post on that a while back about sprinkling, it was interesting. I just have this nagging about the place of Israel all these 2000 years, and them still being in the promise by the law of faith in the covenant of circumcision. I read the wrath of God prophesied in the law, and it speaks of escaping punishment. So I am struggling seeing them NOT SAVED from their punishment possibly in Christ, but partly blinded. Many Jews not in the new covenant have faith. But I don't know quite where to put that.

 

[ralliann]

What does this matter ? I'm not sure of the first sentence here,

Jew's not in the new covenant? Jew's are still keeping the Abrahamic covenant of circumcision. So they are still in covenant with God, like Abe, Isaac, and Jacob. The law of works was not until 430 years later. So, what law did they keep? The law of faith that was from the beginning. There are Jew's that have faith today, but are partly blinded, but still in covenant.

but do you have to put any of this somewhere ?
For example, if you saw hundreds of battleships, some aircraft carriers, anti-submarine ships, and even submarines on the surface, departing from some port under orders,
would you have any need, purpose, or even the desire to want to know where they were going ? Likewise the ones led by Yahweh in Spirit and in Truth are unknown and not understood by the world (at all), yet He is Perfect in Directing them according to His Own Will and His Own Purpose.

No fault in wondering perhaps, nor even in /if/ asking the Master what's going on - He might tell! But only always as He Pleases and alway in complete harmony with all of His Own Word and Plan and Purpose; not as men think, no.

This is encouraging to all who believe in Him and walk with Him every day.

Because I do believe it can help with false teachings. IN MANY AREAS. There are Messianics teaching Gentiles are graffed into Israel, the gospel and new covenant is for us Israel only...etc. I also think it might help concerning Catholicism, Protestantism. That is my hope in it Unity in the truth. Or it can help with anti semitism, Even be a witness to Israel itself. the truth is important and I think there is a blind spot there. The Abrahamic propmises is what brought us The blood of the new covenant.

 

[keepitsimple144]

Because I do believe it can help with false teachings. IN MANY AREAS. There are Messianics teaching Gentiles are graffed into Israel, the gospel and new covenant is for us....etc. ...the truth is important and think there is a blind spot there.

Through the gospel the Gentiles are fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ; Ephesians 3:6-7

Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God; 2 Cor 1:21

 

[ralliann]

Through the gospel the Gentiles are fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ; Ephesians 3:6-7

We are heirs of the promises along with every jew who believes, heirs with Abraham Isaac and Jacob.
The fleshy commands disanulled in the new covenant

 

[ralliann]

Difficult to know what you mean here, and likely best not to elaborate on the open forum.

16 Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.


Carnal circumcision vs spiritual circumcision. sort of thing. It is pretty open in scripture already.

 

[Dan Perez]

Difficult to know what you mean here, and likely best not to elaborate on the open forum.

And all the ones that say that we are in the NEW COVENANT , and most o not any verse to prove it ;''

Yet in Hebrews it says that the new covenant will be with Israel and Judah ., in Heb 8:8 .

dan p