Of course you know about the religious right...

[BCP1928]

I other words sexual norms, sexual behaviors, sexual roles. Gender is the same things as sex.

OK, but other people use the word differently, so you'll have to pay a little bit of attention to the difference while you communicate with others on the subject.

I've read that nouveau gobbledygook before. It doesn't jive with the bulk of overall human history where "gender roles" have been mostly consistent for millennia. And significant deviations have been anomalies. One of the best known anomalies is called gender dysphoria. A lot of the rest in advanced societies has just been purposely going against the grain.

Boy is that ever a clanger. But in all fairness, there is quite a bit of hard to avoid propaganda around about how the gender roles we use in our culture now are the only true and original version and even that they are the ones God wants us to use. That said, even if our present roles really were the only true and original ones there is still always individual variation from the norm and the question is, how should society accommodate itself to these variations? Looking at actual history and actual other cultures might be instructive.

 

[BCP1928]

Wow, you guys are still going on about gender und sexuality?

Sure, why not? It's the boogey man du jour.

 

[DaisyDay]

You do seem a little lost. I'm just describing certain preferences and personality traits that people have. That are often associated with either males or females. Quite often they align with the sex of the person who exhibits them. Sometimes not.

So if the Duke, for example, was found to enjoy wearing frilly dresses and silk scarves and makeup in the privacy of his own home, then I wouldn't have a problem with it. Would that be a problem for you? Would it be feminine or masculine behaviour as you see it?

That's Rock Hudson,

 

[Servus]

No one's forcing you to go along with any of it. As evidenced by you, here, not going along with it, and no one preventing you from doing so.

I'm just trying to explain the concepts you don't seem to understand. At no point have I said you have to go along with any of it...nor has anyone else.



If you don't like the policy of whatever locker room or public shower you frequent, feel free to take that up with the management. I don't speak for them, nor does anyone else here, that I know of.


No one has advocated for that here. Ever.

-- A2SG, if you can find someone who does advocate for that, feel free to take it up with them....

Way to shrink the the issue down to me and this forum. Most of those I debate the matter with display knowing very little about it and throw out uninformed anticdotal opinions. While I don't have to go along with it, schools, libraries and the entertainment industry are getting either sucked into it or pressured into it. And it's all being aimed at children and young adults. The left rallies in favor of it because they want to see the downfall of conservative values and mores.

 

[Servus]

Wow, you guys are still going on about gender und sexuality?

No one on either side has attempted to steer away from it.

 

[BCP1928]

Way to shrink the the issue down to me and this forum. Most of those I debate the matter with display knowing very little about it and throw out uninformed anticdotal opinions. While I don't have to go along with it, schools, libraries and the entertainment industry are getting either sucked into it or pressured into it. And it's all being aimed at children and young adults. The left rallies in favor of it because they want to see the downfall of conservative values and mores.

No, we just don't see a reason to be subject to conservative values and mores. You're welcome to keep to them yourself, if that's what you want to do.

 

[Servus]

No, we just don't see a reason to be subject to conservative values and mores. You're welcome to keep to them yourself, if that's what you want to do.

Sure thing just as long as those on the left keep it to themselves instead of trying to take over schools, libraries, Disney, children's TV shows, social media etc etc.

 

[BCP1928]

Sure thing just as long as those on the left keep it to themselves instead of trying to take over schools, libraries, Disney, children's TV shows, social media etc etc.

Why should they do that? What's so special about your culture and mores that they should be the dominant version? There is no "take over," your culture never owned schools, libraries Disney, children's TV, social media--it was just visiting.

 

[Merrill]

Why should they do that? What's so special about your culture and mores that they should be the dominant version? There is no "take over," your culture never owned schools, libraries Disney, children's TV, social media--it was just visiting.

The public has been pretty clear for the last few years

they don't want far-left, woke ideology in films, children's shows, etc. Films and shows that have been overt about this have lost money, and consumers have pushed back against products and brands that have pushed wokeism.

(and I don't think they would want far-right ideology in kid's books, films, etc. either--most Americans are moderate)

the market will work all of that out

as far as Christian churches go, the far-left (progressives) has been practicing entryism for decades, but has not been effective. According to one news site:

"Mainline Protestant churches are in trouble: A 2015 report by the Pew Research Center found that these congregations, once a mainstay of American religion, are now shrinking by about 1 million members annually"

a good documentary about "progressive Christianity" and secular humanism intruding into the faith is this one:

Watch Christ Crucified

AMERICAN GOSPEL: CHRIST CRUCIFIED (2019) The gospel message of "Christ crucified" has always been offensive. In our culture it is common for preachers to soften the offense of the cross, and...

www.americangospelfilm.com

I think the terms "liberal" and "conservative" are misleading when it comes to denominations. Holding to a tight reading and faithful interpretation of the Bible is not "conservative". There is fidelity to the Gospel and then there is innovation and heresy.

homosexuality, transgenderism (subjecting kids to chemical castration, etc.), pederasty, etc. is all sinful and unacceptable. There is no room for any of this in the faith, and there is no "discussion" to be had.

Those practicing entryism into the faith want you to argue with them, and to "discuss" controversial topics. Others gain entry into churches and then start pushing their ideology. After gaining a foothold, they will start converting members, and then the clergy. Schism and church failure is the ultimate result.

 

[rjs330]

Go look it up. The definition is the same in whatever language you use. There is no authorititive source you'll be able to find that limits it to biological sex. Go educate yourself on what's being discussed. Otherwise threads like this are simply means whereby some people exhibit a woeful lack of knowledge about the matter. Which makes an intelligent discussion impossible.

Gender theory as the left presents is pretty much a western concept. It's not scientific concept and not removed from biological sex. It's an unfalsifiable concept and when the author of the theory tried to show it through his testing process it failed.

 

[BCP1928]

The public has been pretty clear for the last few years

they don't want far-left, woke ideology in films, children's shows, etc. Films and shows that have been overt about this have lost money, and consumers have pushed back against products and brands that have pushed wokeism.

(and I don't think they would want far-right ideology in kid's books, films, etc. either--most Americans are moderate)

the market will work all of that out

as far as Christian churches go, the far-left (progressives) has been practicing entryism for decades, but has not been effective. According to one news site:

"Mainline Protestant churches are in trouble: A 2015 report by the Pew Research Center found that these congregations, once a mainstay of American religion, are now shrinking by about 1 million members annually"

a good documentary about "progressive Christianity" and secular humanism intruding into the faith is this one:

Watch Christ Crucified

AMERICAN GOSPEL: CHRIST CRUCIFIED (2019) The gospel message of "Christ crucified" has always been offensive. In our culture it is common for preachers to soften the offense of the cross, and...

www.americangospelfilm.com

I think the terms "liberal" and "conservative" are misleading when it comes to denominations. Holding to a tight reading and faithful interpretation of the Bible is not "conservative". There is fidelity to the Gospel and then there is innovation and heresy.

homosexuality, transgenderism (subjecting kids to chemical castration, etc.), pederasty, etc. is all sinful and unacceptable. There is no room for any of this in the faith, and there is no "discussion" to be had.

Those practicing entryism into the faith want you to argue with them, and to "discuss" controversial topics. Others gain entry into churches and then start pushing their ideology. After gaining a foothold, they will start converting members, and then the clergy. Schism and church failure is the ultimate result.

I think it's pretty clear that "the public" is dissatisfied with the Left's ham-fisted and stupid (and sometimes harmful) attempts to deal with problems of human sexuality and gender conformity. I agree, and you won't get an argument from me about that.. But I also think the same of the Right's position, and calling it "Christian" doesn't make it better. I don't think either of us is in a position to judge anybody else's fidelity to the Gospel.

 

[BCP1928]

Gender theory as the left presents is pretty much a western concept. It's not scientific concept and not removed from biological sex. It's an unfalsifiable concept and when the author of the theory tried to show it through his testing process it failed.

Indeed. Other cultures handle gender nonconformity in different ways. Some more harshly, some more charitably.

 

[rjs330]

OK, but other people use the word differently, so you'll have to pay a little bit of attention to the difference while you communicate with others on the subject.

I have had plenty of conversations with others on the subject. Their position is gender is separate from sex and actually superior to it. For example someone who says they are a female gender when they are the male sex wants to become the female sex. So gender cannot actually be separated from sex. No one can actually be agender. They can make a choice not to adhere to sexual roles or traits, but that does not actually change anything but how they choose to live. Which I am fine with by the way. If you are a man and want to wear a dress, be my guest. But you are a man wearing a dress. You are not a woman wearing one.

What is being described is actually ones personality traits or quirks. Sometimes they are a fetish.

Those with real dysphoria actually feel like the opposite sex. Once again showing gender and sex are the same thing and not different.

 

[BCP1928]

I have had plenty of conversations with others on the subject.

Then you had better continue the discussion with those others, not with me. I don't hold opinions like those you describe and don't have to answer to them. See post #332

 

[A2SG]

Way to shrink the the issue down to me and this forum.

Well, you are the one calling it "baloney."

Most of those I debate the matter with display knowing very little about it and throw out uninformed anticdotal opinions.

Since we're talking about identity, that's gonna happen. Identity is a very personal, very individual thing.

While I don't have to go along with it, schools, libraries and the entertainment industry are getting either sucked into it or pressured into it.

Or...it could be they're trying to accommodate people who have been overlooked or just ignored for a long time. Just because some don't wish to acknowledge the trans community, that doesn't mean everyone feels that way.

And it's all being aimed at children and young adults.

Some may be, but hardly all. If the goal is to eliminate (or, at least, curtail) discrimination and ignorance, it isn't a bad idea to start with the young. Older people can tend to get stuck in old ways of thinking.

The left rallies in favor of it because they want to see the downfall of conservative values and mores.

Nope.

Since you clearly have no idea why "the left" does things, it might be better to not pretend you do.

-- A2SG, besides, it's not like everyone on "the left" agrees about every little thing...believe me!!

 

[rjs330]

Indeed. Other cultures handle gender nonconformity in different ways. Some more harshly, some more charitably.

True. One could easily point to the fact that cultures handle different personality traits differently. There are some personality traits that are highly respected and desired and others that are not. And there are cultures within cultures. We humans are quite the variety.

But one thing that can't be changed is our sex, barring a medical birth defect.

Now I am all for a discussion regarding how people are treated based upon whomever they are and however they act. Being nice and kind, live and let live ideology.

It's just fine if Billy wants to go by Sally or Jane wants to cut her hair and wear suits. No big deal. However if you are going to want to be given access to the opposite sex's spaces then it's a hard no for me.

 

[A2SG]

Sure thing just as long as those on the left keep it to themselves instead of trying to take over schools, libraries, Disney, children's TV shows, social media etc etc.

You first.

-- A2SG, why should DeSantis and PraegerU have all the fun...

 

[BCP1928]

True. One could easily point to the fact that cultures handle different personality traits differently. There are some personality traits that are highly respected and desired and others that are not. And there are cultures within cultures. We humans are quite the variety.

But one thing that can't be changed is our sex, barring a medical birth defect.

Now I am all for a discussion regarding how people are treated based upon whomever they are and however they act. Being nice and kind, live and let live ideology.

It's just fine if Billy wants to go by Sally or Jane wants to cut her hair and wear suits. No big deal. However if you are going to want to be given access to the opposite sex's spaces then it's a hard no for me.

The concept of "opposite sex's spaces" and how they are to be designated is also a cultural artifact.

 

[The Barbarian]

Sure, why not? It's the boogey man du jour.

Apparently, after all those shots of prominent republicans in drag have turned up, the far right seems to have backed off on it. I don't see much of it in my everyday life, so it seems to be more of a ruse to rile the suckers. And I wonder if anyone has the statistics on the number of drag queens who have shot up elementary schools.

 

[rjs330]

Then you had better continue the discussion with those others, not with me. I don't hold opinions like those you describe and don't have to answer to them. See post #332

And yet here we are having discussions. You don't have to respond. On a forum where we discuss opinions, ideas, ideology, etc. there are going to be things we agree on and those we don't. You have no obligation to discuss anything you don't wish to. But don't say something and expect people not to respond.