Of course you know about the religious right...

[rjs330]

The Dictionary just rang - you're fired.

OB

Nope, that's the history behind it the word. Just like the history of the modern theory of gender started with a mentally ill pedophile failed scientist.

 

[A2SG]

I've read that nouveau gobbledygook before. It doesn't jive with the bulk of overall human history were "gender roles" have been mostly consistent for millennia.

Really? So there are no differences between the roles women played in society a thousand years ago and now? Their roles in society have remained "mostly consistent" over that time?

Really?

You gonna stick with that?

And significant deviations have been anomalies. One of the best known anomalies is called gender dysphoria. A lot of the rest in advanced societies has just been purposely going against the grain.

So any significant change in gender roles have been anomalies, is that your contention?

Can you not think of a single significant change in gender roles that has persisted over time over the past thousand years? Not one?

-- A2SG, try a little harder....

 

[Bradskii]

Sounds now like all of what you've been saying is about being in the closet.

Why would some people try to hide it? Hide what? I hear you ask. Well, the fact that how they consider themselves as regards their gender, or their sexual personality (that's a word with which you seem comfortable in this context) is in conflict with their biological self. And you only have to read a few threads on the matter to see why they are nervous about revealing it.

But some ask for help. It's good to offer it, depending on the individual circumstances. As opposed to rejecting the person as being mentally ill.

 

[Bradskii]

Nope, that's the history behind it the word. Just like the history of the modern theory of gender started with a mentally ill pedophile failed scientist.

But you can't find a single example anywhere on the planet of the term being used other than the way it's been described to you. Your farcical attempt to deny what it means in this pathetic manner is akin to saying that Einstein was cruel to animals, therefore e doesn't actually equal mc squared.

You just come across as being desperate.

 

[rjs330]

But you can't find a single example anywhere on the planet of the term being used other than the way it's been described to you. Your farcical attempt to deny what it means in this pathetic manner is akin to saying that Einstein was cruel to animals, therefore e doesn't actually equal mc squared.

You just come across as being desperate.

I'm sorry but it's you who can't find a single example of gender any thing being related to anything else except sex.

You actually have no evidence that Money was correct unlike Einstein. In fact Money was proven wrong by his own failed experiments.

 

[rjs330]

their sexual personality (that's a word with which you seem comfortable in this context) is in conflict with their biological self.

Sexual personality? What is sexual personality? Are you saying there is a sexual personality?

 

[rjs330]

You just come across as being desperate.

The separation is actually on the side of the genderists as they try so hard to validate a theory that can not be nor ever has been validated. Unlike Einsteins. The desperation is on your side to try and hide the fact that Money invalidated his own theory with his own experiments.

 

[rjs330]

But some ask for help. It's good to offer it, depending on the individual circumstances. As opposed to rejecting the person as being mentally ill.

People should be helped. With therapy. Children particularly.

 

[A2SG]

I'm sorry but it's you who can't find a single example of gender any thing being related to anything else except sex.

Of course it relates to sex. It's the part of your identity where you express what you consider male or female traits to be.

But the term "gender" does not refer to your biology, or your genitalia. Maybe it did once, but it doesn't any more. Because we've come to realize that the two are not the same thing, and we use two different terms to denote that difference.

Thing is, while your sex and your gender may match, that is not the case for everyone. You continue to think that your experience is the same as everyone else's....and it just simply is not.

-- A2SG, just knock it off, Horatio....

 

[A2SG]

People should be helped. With therapy. Children particularly.

No one is saying otherwise.

-- A2SG, go ahead, try and find someone saying we shouldn't let people have therapy....

 

[ozso]

Why would some people try to hide it? Hide what? I hear you ask. Well, the fact that how they consider themselves as regards their gender, or their sexual personality (that's a word with which you seem comfortable in this context) is in conflict with their biological self. And you only have to read a few threads on the matter to see why they are nervous about revealing it.

But some ask for help. It's good to offer it, depending on the individual circumstances. As opposed to rejecting the person as being mentally ill.

I just said personality. And the personality example of Paul Lynde you gave was in keeping with his biological self. There wasn't anything about him that wasn't male. There are just simply variations in male personalities, rather than each of those variations being a separate gender. And most everyone has traits and quirks they keep private. Most people on discussion forums for example stay hidden and anonymous.

 

[ozso]

And now it's come to mean identity rather than biology. Since "sex" is already available to define biology, and we've decided it's okay to use the word without giggling like adolescents.

-- A2SG, words and their usage change over time....that's how language works....

The notion of identifying as one of or a combination of umpteen made up genders is an absurd concept.

 

[ozso]

But you can't find a single example anywhere on the planet of the term being used other than the way it's been described to you. Your farcical attempt to deny what it means in this pathetic manner is akin to saying that Einstein was cruel to animals, therefore e doesn't actually equal mc squared.

You just come across as being desperate.

Say what? Gender is an English word. What's the Chinese equivalent?

 

[A2SG]

I just said personality. And the personality example of Paul Lynde you gave was in keeping with his biological self. There wasn't anything about him that wasn't male.

True. However, he expressed male traits differently than, say, John Wayne would have. Or Steve McQueen. Or Douglas MacArthur. Or Elton John. How we define "male" is a broad spectrum, covering a range of possible ways to express the concept of "male" behavior and personality traits.

On the other hand, some people may express male personality traits...and yet, don't have male genitalia. Eliot Page is an example, or Chaz Bono. Both were born with female genitalia, but came to realize their gender was male, so they decided to undergo medical treatment to become male.

For them, it was what they felt they needed to do. Someone else, feeling the same way, might simply not wear a dress, or would prefer to work in a field that's not typically or stereotypically female. Different strokes, as they say.

There are just simply variations in male personalities, rather than each of those variations being a separate gender.

That's why I prefer not to use different terms for different expressions of gender. I prefer the model of a spectrum, rather than a set of rigidly defined boxes. Because people don't always fit in boxes.

And most everyone has traits and quirks they keep private. Most people on discussion forums for example stay hidden and anonymous.

You can never really know what's going on inside someone else's head, or understand how they view themselves.

Which is why it's a foolish idea to tell someone who they are supposed to be, or how they are supposed to act, based entirely on what genitalia they have.

-- A2SG, simple as that....

 

[Bradskii]

Say what? Gender is an English word. What's the Chinese equivalent?

Go look it up. The definition is the same in whatever language you use. There is no authorititive source you'll be able to find that limits it to biological sex. Go educate yourself on what's being discussed. Otherwise threads like this are simply means whereby some people exhibit a woeful lack of knowledge about the matter. Which makes an intelligent discussion impossible.

 

[A2SG]

The notion of identifying as one of or a combination of umpteen made up genders is an absurd concept.

So don't. Identify however you like.

Other people may feel differently than you, though. They may identify as one of those "made up" genders, or as one they've devised themselves. There are any number of possible ways that individuals may identify themselves.

How can you say any of them are wrong...or absurd? Just because you feel differently?

Is your identity wrong? Or absurd? How on earth can someone else say that it is?

So why do you feel you can say it about someone else?

-- A2SG, absurdity is in the eye of the beholder.....

 

[ozso]

Go look it up. The definition is the same in whatever language you use. There is no authorititive source you'll be able to find that limits it to biological sex. Go educate yourself on what's being discussed. Otherwise threads like this are simply means whereby some people exhibit a woeful lack of knowledge about the matter. Which makes an intelligent discussion impossible.

You have a vivid imagination.

 

[ozso]

So don't. Identify however you like.

Other people may feel differently than you, though. They may identify as one of those "made up" genders, or as one they've devised themselves. There are any number of possible ways that individuals may identify themselves.

How can you say any of them are wrong...or absurd? Just because you feel differently?

Is your identity wrong? Or absurd? How on earth can someone else say that it is?

So why do you feel you can say it about someone else?

-- A2SG, absurdity is in the eye of the beholder.....

The problem is the insistence that everyone has to go along with it, and use made up terminology, and go along with absurd notions that men can become pregnant, and "mother and father" has to be replaced with "birthing person" etc. And alow men to be with girls in locker rooms as showers. And alow young children to be chemically and surgically altered. On and on it goes.

 

[A2SG]

The problem is the insistence that everyone has to go along with it, and use made up terminology, and go along with absurd notions that men can become pregnant, and "mother and father" has to be replaced with "birthing person" etc.

No one's forcing you to go along with any of it. As evidenced by you, here, not going along with it, and no one preventing you from doing so.

I'm just trying to explain the concepts you don't seem to understand. At no point have I said you have to go along with any of it...nor has anyone else.

And alow men to be with girls in locker rooms as showers.

If you don't like the policy of whatever locker room or public shower you frequent, feel free to take that up with the management. I don't speak for them, nor does anyone else here, that I know of.

And alow young children to be chemically and surgically altered. On and on it goes.

No one has advocated for that here. Ever.

-- A2SG, if you can find someone who does advocate for that, feel free to take it up with them....

 

[Nithavela]

Wow, you guys are still going on about gender und sexuality?