Biden elderly man with poor memory according to Special Counsel

Akita Suggagaki

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WASHINGTON — Special counsel Robert Hur has declined to prosecute President Joe Biden for his handling of classified documents but said in a report released Thursday that Biden’s practices “present serious risks to national security” and added that part of the reason he wouldn't charge Biden was that the president could portray himself as an "elderly man with a poor memory" who would be sympathetic to a jury.
Golden opportunity to undermine Biden support during an election year.
 
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BPPLEE

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Maybe D Trump can appeal to the courts once his "I have total immunity" has been shot down forever, and say that he too is an elderly man with a poor memory.

He won't be able to claim "well-meaning" due to all the lying and obstructing that he did.
He can just claim to be a narcissist who can’t help himself.
 
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RileyG

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Normal people, even young-ish people have troubles remembering dates and names.

I have my wedding date engraved into my wedding ring.
I didn't realise people are expected to commit to memory people's death dates.

If this Special Council is to be concerned about Biden's memory etc, he ought to have a qualified doctor assess Biden, rather than presume to be himself qualified to make such an assessment.
Absolutely!
 
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BPPLEE

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Yes, and he intentionally appointed somebody who had served in the Trump Admin so people wouldn't scream about it being unfair.
Yes but I remember seeing “Trump appointed “ repeatedly when people said Trump or associates were treated unfairly.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Normal people, even young-ish people have troubles remembering dates and names.

I have my wedding date engraved into my wedding ring.
I didn't realise people are expected to commit to memory people's death dates.

If this Special Council is to be concerned about Biden's memory etc, he ought to have a qualified doctor assess Biden, rather than presume to be himself qualified to make such an assessment.
While it's true that not everyone (even younger people) will have a "Sheldon Cooper-like" steel trap memory...

I think the concerns pertaining to Biden's mental/cognitive state go beyond just kinds of normal stuff you're referring to.

When you look at his gait, the somewhat confused look he'll have on his face, the mumbling, slurred, and sometimes incoherent speech, it appears as if he's one of the 40% of Americans that have the exact same kinds of things when they reach his age.

It's important to note, that just because right-wing pundits use it as a slur/smear against him, it doesn't mean there's not some truth in the underlying premise.

And in this particular case, we have a basis of comparison, since he's been in the public life for a 40+ year career, we can definitely say that it wasn't always that way. We can go to the old videos and see what he used to be like.

A person looking objectively at videos of him from before, and comparing that to now, can see there's been a noticeable decline.

1986

2008

...compare that to what we see present day.



I get that there's an instinctive desire for people to defend him against GOP attacks, but we still have to be objective about certain things. For people try to give him cover by saying "oh, he's always been like that" (which the videos above show is definitely not the case, extremely sharp in 1986, and still pretty sharp in 2008), is just dishonesty in the other direction.

The guy's slipping...and that's not a personal attack (I voted for the guy, but I was under the impression that he was just planning on doing 1 term and then retiring).
 
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stevil

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Yes but I remember seeing “Trump appointed “ repeatedly when people said Trump or associates were treated unfairly.
It depends on who people are talking about.

Christopher Asher Wray (born December 17, 1966) is an American attorney who is the current director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). He was nominated by president Donald Trump on June 7, 2017, and has served since August 2, 2017.

But in terms of Special Councils, they are appointed by the Attorney General.
Merrick Garland appointed:
Robert K Hur as the Special Council to investigate Joe Biden's document possession.
Jack Smith as the Special Council to investigate Donald Trump's document possession.
David Weiss as the Special Counsel to investigate Hunter Biden business dealings.

In terms of potential for political partisanship
Robert Hur was appointed in 2017 by Donald Trump as the chief federal law enforcement officer in Maryland
Jack Smith was appointed as acting U.S. attorney when Mr. Trump fired Obama-appointed attorneys, but left for a job at a private health care company after being passed over for a permanent appointment in the post
David Weiss served as Acting U.S. Attorney for Delaware again during the administration of Donald Trump following the resignation of Oberly. He was subsequently nominated to officially fill that position, and on February 15, 2018, his nomination to be the United States Attorney was confirmed by the Senate by voice vote. He was sworn in on February 22, 2018
 
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stevil

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When you look at his gait, the somewhat confused look he'll have on his face, the mumbling, slurred, and sometimes incoherent speech, it appears as if he's one of the 40% of Americans that have the exact same kinds of things when they reach his age.
I agree whole heartedly that Joe Biden is old and looks old.

It's important to note, that just because right-wing pundits use it as a slur/smear against him, it doesn't mean there's not some truth in the underlying premise.
They don't just say that he looks old.
You get lots of hyperbole, and cherry picked items and even doctored footage, especially from Fox News and Sky News Australia.
You also get some commentary on that footage which is half truths.

And in this particular case, we have a basis of comparison, since he's been in the public life for a 40+ year career, we can definitely say that it wasn't always that way. We can go to the old videos and see what he used to be like.
Sure, yes, as people get older, they look older and act older. I don't get the point you are trying to make. I mean, everyone agrees that Biden is older and is getting older every day.

I get that there's an instinctive desire for people to defend him against GOP attacks, but we still have to be objective about certain things.
It makes sense for people to address the hyperbole that right wing media are trying to do on Joe Biden, yes.

For people try to give him cover by saying "oh, he's always been like that"
Have people been saying that? I haven't seen anyone say he has always been like that.

The guy's slipping...and that's not a personal attack (I voted for the guy, but I was under the impression that he was just planning on doing 1 term and then retiring).
I personally think someone else should run for office. I think he is too old too, for another 4 year term.
But I don't agree with the rhetoric that comes from Right wing circles. There is a lot of hyperbole going on.

Getting all upset about Biden for forgetting the date his son died, but not being worried at all about Trump confusing the photo of the woman he raped with his wife, or not being worried about Trump publicly telling Putin to do whatever he wants against NATO members.

Both guys (Trump and Biden) are old and aren't the sharpest in terms of memory or fitness. Both show large signs of aging.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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I agree whole heartedly that Joe Biden is old and looks old.


They don't just say that he looks old.
You get lots of hyperbole, and cherry picked items and even doctored footage, especially from Fox News and Sky News Australia.
You also get some commentary on that footage which is half truths.


Sure, yes, as people get older, they look older and act older. I don't get the point you are trying to make. I mean, everyone agrees that Biden is older and is getting older every day.


It makes sense for people to address the hyperbole that right wing media are trying to do on Joe Biden, yes.


Have people been saying that? I haven't seen anyone say he has always been like that.


I personally think someone else should run for office. I think he is too old too, for another 4 year term.
But I don't agree with the rhetoric that comes from Right wing circles. There is a lot of hyperbole going on.

Getting all upset about Biden for forgetting the date his son died, but not being worried at all about Trump confusing the photo of the woman he raped with his wife, or not being worried about Trump publicly telling Putin to do whatever he wants against NATO members.

Both guys (Trump and Biden) are old and aren't the sharpest in terms of memory or fitness. Both show large signs of aging.

This isn't just about "looking and acting older", this is mental & cognitive decline.

For example, you look at Fauci, he's the same age as Biden (in fact, I think Fauci is a year or two older). While Fauci certainly has a little more grey hair than he used to, maybe isn't as physically spry as he used to be, etc... if you watch a video of him from 20 years ago and now and see the way he speaks and carries on a conversation, you don't see such a contrast (if any?) like we do with Biden.

At 80, Fauci could still sit there in a hours-long Senate hearing and look alert, have a handle on the subject matter, and not once do I recall him giving a "deer in the headlights" look while quietly mumbling "hold on here folks, let me find my words" (followed by awkward pause)


With regards to your one question about people saying "he's always been like that", that was pretty much the go-to defense from 2019-2021. Chalking it up to "Biden's always been a gaffe machine" or "well, he had a stutter when he was a teenager" or "well, this is just a smear tactic by Trump"

But the concern isn't the gaffes...

While I would agree that both Biden and Trump are too old to president, the reason why it stands out so much in Biden's case is due to the decline people have seen over the past 10 years.

As to where, the incoherent and abrasive stuff Trump says, is the same kind of wacky things he was saying 10 years ago, which is why the public perceptions of the two are different

To use an analogy, the guy who's been at a very unhealthy weight for 2 decades isn't going to raise as many eyebrows as the guy who was once pretty fit, and then rapidly gained weight over 5 years. Example: We're all used to seeing Chris Christie looking "portly", it doesn't call into question any specific health questions and nobody thinks anything of it at this point. If Barack Obama showed up on TV weighing 350lbs, everyone would be like "whoa!, something's going on, he's really gone downhill"
 
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BPPLEE

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It depends on who people are talking about.

Christopher Asher Wray (born December 17, 1966) is an American attorney who is the current director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). He was nominated by president Donald Trump on June 7, 2017, and has served since August 2, 2017.

But in terms of Special Councils, they are appointed by the Attorney General.
Merrick Garland appointed:
Robert K Hur as the Special Council to investigate Joe Biden's document possession.
Jack Smith as the Special Council to investigate Donald Trump's document possession.
David Weiss as the Special Counsel to investigate Hunter Biden business dealings.

In terms of potential for political partisanship
Robert Hur was appointed in 2017 by Donald Trump as the chief federal law enforcement officer in Maryland
Jack Smith was appointed as acting U.S. attorney when Mr. Trump fired Obama-appointed attorneys, but left for a job at a private health care company after being passed over for a permanent appointment in the post
David Weiss served as Acting U.S. Attorney for Delaware again during the administration of Donald Trump following the resignation of Oberly. He was subsequently nominated to officially fill that position, and on February 15, 2018, his nomination to be the United States Attorney was confirmed by the Senate by voice vote. He was sworn in on February 22, 2018
Yeah Smith is getting his revenge now
 
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stevil

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This isn't just about "looking and acting older", this is mental & cognitive decline.
Mental and cognitive decline is pretty normal with age.
As far as I understand it USA presidents take cognitive tests. I certainly remember Donald Trump bragging about him passing his. Which he said was a difficult test.
He remembered the words Person, woman, man, camera, tv, and other tricky questions, probably something like, recognising that the wheels on the bus go round and round and that an elephant isn't a table or a chair.

For example, you look at Fauci, he's the same age as Biden
Yes, no one is saying that all old people exihibit the decline that comes with age at the same time in their lives.

With regards to your one question about people saying "he's always been like that", that was pretty much the go-to defense from 2019-2021. Chalking it up to "Biden's always been a gaffe machine" or "well, he had a stutter when he was a teenager" or "well, this is just a smear tactic by Trump"
This is just lumping everything together, it's called conflation. If a person pointed out that Biden was doing gaffes prior to his presidency, it doesn't mean the person is talking about whether Biden's memory has declined or not since.
Of course Biden is older now than when he was when his presidency started.

But the concern isn't the gaffes...
Yes, so let's not conflate. Instead, let's be specific.
While I would agree that both Biden and Trump are too old to president, the reason why it stands out so much in Biden's case is due to the decline people have seen over the past 10 years.
OK, I don't think that is the case. I think Right wing media and MAGA internet warriors have been promoting the idea of Biden's mental decline since even before he won the election.

As to where, the incoherent and abrasive stuff Trump says, is the same kind of wacky things he was saying 10 years ago, which is why the public perceptions of the two are different
Well, they are two different people, so people's perceptions should be different.
Also Right wing media is very different from non right wing media. Right wing media are happy to dive into hyporbole and cherry pick and even fabricate stories and doctor images.

To use an analogy, the guy who's been at a very unhealthy weight for 2 decades isn't going to raise as many eyebrows as the guy who was once pretty fit, and then rapidly gained weight over 5 years.
Except if the guy that is at an unhealthy weight gets his doctor to write reports like this

President Donald Trump's former personal doctor -- who claimed Trump had dictated a letter insisting he would be the "healthiest" president ever


On the former President’s booking sheet, Trump is listed as 6 feet 3 inches tall and 215 pounds.
Here are some athletes that have a similar build as the former President


Example: We're all used to seeing Chris Christie looking "portly", it doesn't call into question any specific health questions and nobody thinks anything of it at this point. If Barack Obama showed up on TV weighing 350lbs, everyone would be like "whoa!, something's going on, he's really gone downhill"
So, I mean, if the point you are trying to make is that Biden is getting older, is that he makes some gaffes in his speeches, is that he doesn't have the memory that he used to have. Then I will agree with you.

Is there something else to be said here? Are you making a claim that he is not cognitively fit to be president? If so, where is your evidence?

What is your view on Trump's cognitive fitness? Where is your evidence on this also.
 
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ThatRobGuy

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Is there something else to be said here? Are you making a claim that he is not cognitively fit to be president? If so, where is your evidence?
In my opinion? No, he's not cognitively fit to be president. However, there's no codified standard on that within our political system, so there's really no "evidence" one can provide to make a universally accepted "case" for it.

People could technically elect a schizophrenic person who thinks ducks are talking to them at the park if they wanted to and they saw the other person as "the greater of two evils"
What is your view on Trump's cognitive fitness? Where is your evidence on this also.
Cognitive? I can't say one way or the other as like I noted, the Trump we see today pretty much resembles the Trump I remember from over a decade ago (egotistical, braggadocios, dishonest, narcissistic).

My concern with Trump isn't a cognitive one, but a question of mental stability.

A person can be a sociopath but still have their wits about them.
 
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stevil

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Cognitive? I can't say one way or the other as like I noted, the Trump we see today pretty much resembles the Trump I remember from over a decade ago (egotistical, braggadocios, dishonest, narcissistic).
I didn't ask if he has been declining or not. I'm not interested in decline.
You have assessed that Biden is not cognitively fit for a USA president, in your opinion, it seems you think Trump has enough cognitive abilities to be president.
Trump thinks he is immune from laws, he thinks dropping a nuke on a hurricane is a good idea, he thinks instructing Putin to attack NATO allies is a good idea, he thinks windmills cause cancer and kill whales, he thinks it a good idea to investigate injecting disinfectant into people.
If you have every read transcriptions of his impromptu speeches you can see that mostly it is word salad. He thinks people attacking the Capital, breaking windows, hurting police, threatening to kill his VP is patriotic and loveable.
 
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BPPLEE

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I didn't ask if he has been declining or not. I'm not interested in decline.
You have assessed that Biden is not cognitively fit for a USA president, in your opinion, it seems you think Trump has enough cognitive abilities to be president.
Trump thinks he is immune from laws, he thinks dropping a nuke on a hurricane is a good idea, he thinks instructing Putin to attack NATO allies is a good idea, he thinks windmills cause cancer and kill whales, he thinks it a good idea to investigate injecting disinfectant into people.
If you have every read transcriptions of his impromptu speeches you can see that mostly it is word salad. He thinks people attacking the Capital, breaking windows, hurting police, threatening to kill his VP is patriotic and loveable.
And Biden talks to dead people on a regular basis according to him.
 
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stevil

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And Biden talks to dead people on a regular basis according to him.
I'm pretty sure he mixed up names rather than believes he is talking to dead people.

The real problem comes when the dead people start talking back.
 
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BPPLEE

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I'm pretty sure he mixed up names rather than believes he is talking to dead people.

The real problem comes when the dead people start talking back.
I’ve never seen an unbiased person make so many excuses for one candidate and malign the other. People can make excuses for Trump too.
 
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stevil

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I’ve never seen an unbiased person make so many excuses for one candidate and malign the other. People can make excuses for Trump too.
I'm sorry. Do you really believe that Biden thinks he can communicate with the dead?
Is that your take from this, not that Biden got names confused?
 
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