Anti-semitic fear of Palestine Siege

[ralliann]

The fact that Hamas wants sympathy from the Palestinian people does not, of course, mean that any who expresses support for the Palestinian people is a supporter from Hamas.

I have raised the possibility that Israel would be better off with a less drastic response than one that has cost so many civilian lives. The irony is that the "blast away" approach you appear to be endorsing will, even if Hamas is greatly damaged in the short term, only give rise to a new generation of Hamas terrorists.

Well I raise the possibility that Hamas use other weapons besides their own people.

 

[ralliann]

I think you might need to weigh up how many people Hamas has killed against how may people the Knesset has killed.

Why? Make this a factor of who is wrong or right, just use the death of your own for victory. Not a good thing, it is Hamas however.

 

[expos4ever]

Palestinians Support Hamas. They put them in power.

Surely you have to know it is not that simple. Even if all Palestinians voted for Hamas, and even if all of them support the idea of attacking Israel the way they did, this does not mean that people should not be rallying to prevent needless killing of Palestinians.

Remember, those of us who profess to be Christians would be hard-pressed to say that Jesus would support the arguably needless killing of anybody, no matter how "evil" they might be.

Anyone who supports the atrocities is, in my books, an evil person. But that does not mean that we should kill them.

 

[Hazelelponi]

Surely you have to know it is not that simple. Even if all Palestinians voted for Hamas, and even if all of them support the idea of attacking Israel the way they did, this does not mean that people should not be rallying to prevent needless killing of Palestinians.

Remember, those of us who profess to be Christians would be hard-pressed to say that Jesus would support the arguably needless killing of anybody, no matter how "evil" they might be.

Anyone who supports the atrocities is, in my books, an evil person. But that does not mean that we should kill them.

Maybe it's the "needless" part we disagree on.

To prevent future aggression when your enemy desires genocide and works daily toward that goal, death is necessary for one's very survival. . .

Needless is Hamas actions.

Two state solution is the only path forward, and anyone not working towards that goal is the enemy.

 

[expos4ever]

Maybe it's the "needless" part we disagree on.

Yes, but then we each need to make an actual case. It would be irresponsible of me to simply assume that there is needless killing going on. Likewise, it would be irresponsible of you to simply assume that Israelis are not overdoing it.

To prevent future aggression when your enemy desires genocide and works daily toward that goal, death is necessary for one's very survival. . .

This is kind of besides the point. Yes, one could argue (although I think it might be challenging for a Christian to do so) that those who are committing genocide need to be killed or otherwise taken out of commission. But there is a further question: are the people actually being killed by the IDF the ones who are directly, or even indirectly responsible for the October attacks? Surely children cannot be in this category.

Remember: just because someone voted for Hamas does not necessarily mean they endorse the attacks on Oct 7. Yes, I have read of polls which show that most Palestinians favour the idea of attacking Israel. And, yes, that does strengthen your position.

 

[ralliann]

Surely you have to know it is not that simple. Even if all Palestinians voted for Hamas, and even if all of them support the idea of attacking Israel the way they did, this does not mean that people should not be rallying to prevent needless killing of Palestinians.

It is that simple. They are defending them now, and so are you. They started this war and have continued this war, and said they will continue this war. Surely you should know and surely Palestinians know. Call on them to cease fire. Nazi's confessed Christians in their ranks as well.

Remember, those of us who profess to be Christians would be hard-pressed to say that Jesus would support the arguably needless killing of anybody, no matter how "evil" they might be.

Anyone who supports the atrocities is, in my books, an evil person. But that does not mean that we should kill them.

That is right. Hamas went into Israel and not only needlessly killed Israeli's they committed vile atrocities. Israel responded, to attempt to get hostages out and to protect their citizens, and are continuing to do so, since Hamas i9s still at war with them. Call on Hamas to put down their weapons. And the killing will stop.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Surely you have to know it is not that simple. Even if all Palestinians voted for Hamas, and even if all of them support the idea of attacking Israel the way they did, this does not mean that people should not be rallying to prevent needless killing of Palestinians.

You might be giving too much credit here. There is a lot of simplistic thinking going on in some quarters.

Oh look..

It is that simple. They are defending them now, and so are you. They started this war and have continued this war, and said they will continue this war. Surely you should know and surely Palestinians know. Call on them to cease fire. Nazi's confessed Christians in their ranks as well.

 

[expos4ever]

They are defending them now, and so are you.

A complete, shameless falsehood.

You cannot possibly not know that I am not defending Hamas

Yet you deliberately state something that you know to be false.

 

[ralliann]

A complete, shameless falsehood.

You cannot possibly not know that I am not defending Hamas

Yet you deliberately state something that you know to be false.

Then why are you defending the cause they are fighting for? Especially now. Israel is basically in control above ground. They can leave to safer areas .

 

[expos4ever]

Then why are you defending the cause they are fighting for?

I am most certainly not defending their cause - you will find nothing that I have posted that indicates I support their cause.

 

[ralliann]

I am most certainly not defending their cause - you will find nothing that I have posted that indicates I support their cause.

From your post
Begin quote
"Anyone who supports the atrocities is, in my books, an evil person. But that does not mean that we should kill them."
End quote
Oh If Hamas only believed such things.
It is war......
You shouldn't kill someone in self defense now????

 

[expos4ever]

From your post
Begin quote
"Anyone who supports the atrocities is, in my books, an evil person. But that does not mean that we should kill them."
End quote
Oh If Hamas only believed such things.
It is war......
You shouldn't kill someone in self defense now????

Oh please.

How can you possibly not understand that my saying that we should not kill evil people does not mean that I support these evil people?

And, again, you misrepresent by implying that I do not support self-defence. What I actually posted was that, as Christians, the fact that a person is an evil perpetrator of atrocities does not, in and of itself, justify killing them. Now, if a particular evil person in the process of trying to kill someone, that is a different story.

 

[ralliann]

Oh please.

How can you possibly not understand that my saying that we should not kill evil people does not mean that I support these evil people?

Are Israeli's not to defend themselves? Are they simply supposed to cease to exist, so that you will think well of them?

And, again, you misrepresent by implying that I do not support self-defence. What I actually posted was that, as Christians, the fact that a person is an evil perpetrator of atrocities does not, in and of itself, justify killing them. Now, if a particular evil person in the process of trying to kill someone, that is a different story.

The process they carried out was enough......But it looks like you support waiting until they appear in Israel again and again and again heh?

 

[expos4ever]

Are Israeli's not to defend themselves?

Strawman - I never said this.

The process they carried out was enough......But it looks like you support waiting until they appear in Israel again and again and again heh?

Ok, here is a challenge I am pretty sure you will evade - what, specifically, have I written in any of my posts that suggests that I support Hamas?

You will, of course, find a nary a word from me that supports such a conclusion.

 

[ralliann]

Strawman - I never said this.


Ok, here is a challenge I am pretty sure you will evade - what, specifically, have I written in any of my posts that suggests that I support Hamas?

You will, of course, find a nary a word from me that supports such a conclusion.

The palestinians are supporting Hamas. All you talk about is Israel needs to stop. You say nothing of Hamas. That is support. I am sure you will evade again. See how that works

 

[stevevw]

To those that support Isreal's war I have a hypothetical for you.

Lets say someone murders your entire family. You are then presented the murderer, his wife, and 3 children tied to the left side of a switched railroad track. The right side is clear. Do you switch the track to the right side and save them knowing the murderer will escape your vengance? If you would why would you support Isreal's war? What they are doing is even worse..

Our lord Jesus is the prince of peace and we are called to follow him in all ways. Israel is unjustified in its murder of civilians and they will have to answer to God for it.

Romans 12:19-21 Beloved, don't be obsessed with taking revenge, but leave that to God's righteous justice. For the Scriptures say: “Vengeance is mine, and I will repay,” says the Lord.

The problem is Isreal have already allowed the murderers to escape free many times. Isreal has a history of having to allow criminals and terrorist to go free to get back Isreali's who have been captured by Hamas and other terrorists groups like Hezbolah. Its usually 1 or 2 Isreali prisoners some dead exchanged for 10 to 100 times Palestinian or other Muslim prisoners.

So they are more or less releasing the same terrorists who have tried to kill them only to have them attack Isreal again and again. I think they have more than compromised on this and perhaps too much and nothing has changed.

So in your scenario it would be like you allow the murder to live by switching the carriage to the clear side only to have the same murderer come back and kill your child or take your wife hostage. You can only put up with that for so long and then you realize that if you don't stop them they will never cease coming to murder you and your family. Especially when they are your neighbours in countries on your door step.

Here is only a small portion of the exchanges.
IDF soldier Avraham Amram was captured in a clash on April 5, 1978, with Palestinian PFLP-GC forces. He was exchanged March 14, 1979, for 76 convicted Palestinian prisoners.
In 1983 6 Isreali soldiers were exchanged for 4,765 Palestinian and Lebonese prisoners.
In 1985 3 Isreali solders were exchanged in the Jibril Agreement for 1,150 Palestinians prisoners of which 380 were sentenced to life.
In 2004 over 400 Palestinian and 30 Lebonese prisoners were exchanged for the bodies of 3 IDF soldiers.
In 2011 Gilad Shalit was released in exchange for over 1,000 Palestinian prisoners in Israel.

 

[ralliann]

The problem is Isreal have already allowed the murderers to escape free many times. Isreal has a history of having to allow criminals and terrorist to go free to get back Isreali's who have been captured by Hamas and other terrorists groups like Hezbolah. Its usually 1 or 2 Isreali prisoners some dead exchanged for 10 to 100 times Palestinian or other Muslim prisoners.

So they are more or less releasing the same terrorists who have tried to kill them only to have them attack Isreal again and again. I think they have more than compromised on this and perhaps too much and nothing has changed.

So in your scenario it would be like you allow the murder to live by switching the carriage to the clear side only to have the same murderer come back and kill your child or take your wife hostage. You can only put up with that for so long and then you realize that if you don't stop them they will never cease coming to murder you and your family. Especially when they are your neighbours in countries on your door step.

Here is only a small portion of the exchanges.
IDF soldier Avraham Amram was captured in a clash on April 5, 1978, with Palestinian PFLP-GC forces. He was exchanged March 14, 1979, for 76 convicted Palestinian prisoners.
In 1983 6 Isreali soldiers were exchanged for 4,765 Palestinian and Lebonese prisoners.
In 1985 3 Isreali solders were exchanged in the Jibril Agreement for 1,150 Palestinians prisoners of which 380 were sentenced to life.
In 2004 over 400 Palestinian and 30 Lebonese prisoners were exchanged for the bodies of 3 IDF soldiers.
In 2011 Gilad Shalit was released in exchange for over 1,000 Palestinian prisoners in Israel.

The frame of the question is skewed. Support for Israel's war? Israel and Hamas are both at war.

 

[Verv]

As a Christian, I actually do not view Hamas as evil at all.

In desperation, for the existence of their people, they have chosen to attack soft targets and thus act like terrorists. It resulted in the deaths of perhaps around 700 civilians and the abduction of 200+, including many soldiers who were taken as well as mostly soldiers or ex-soldiers/reservists that were killed, who also consciously lived on settlements that encroached into Palestinian land... (The whole thing is Palestinian, but especially that which is after the more recent agreements).

Israel has chosen to avoid guerrilla warfare and blow up apartment complexes, private homes, and even hospitals, bringing buildings down on the heads of innocent civilains.

IDF terrorism has killed over 23,000 civilians, including 8,000 civilians... and why?

Why does the IDF get to attack soft targets because it does not want to fight guerrilla war...

But the Palestinians, who can only fight a guerrilla war, are called terrorists when they inflict far less damage on soft targets..?

Have not the Israelis completely normalized the mass murdering of civilians at this point?

 

[ralliann]

As a Christian, I actually do not view Hamas as evil at all.

In desperation, for the existence of their people, they have chosen to attack soft targets and thus act like terrorists. It resulted in the deaths of perhaps around 700 civilians and the abduction of 200+, including many soldiers who were taken as well as mostly soldiers or ex-soldiers/reservists that were killed, who also consciously lived on settlements that encroached into Palestinian land... (The whole thing is Palestinian, but especially that which is after the more recent agreements).

Israel has chosen to avoid guerrilla warfare and blow up apartment complexes, private homes, and even hospitals, bringing buildings down on the heads of innocent civilains.

IDF terrorism has killed over 23,000 civilians, including 8,000 civilians... and why?

Why does the IDF get to attack soft targets because it does not want to fight guerrilla war...

But the Palestinians, who can only fight a guerrilla war, are called terrorists when they inflict far less damage on soft targets..?

Have not the Israelis completely normalized the mass murdering of civilians at this point?

Hamas military operations are conducted behind and under those targets. Human shields, and Israeli hostages simply considered tools of war. Guerilla war could only occur, after the massive tunnel complex was under control to go in. Hamas was underneath with the ability to pop up just about anywhere (ambush from the ground underneath soft target areas).

 

[Verv]

Hamas military operations are conducted behind and under those targets. Human shields, and Israeli hostages simply considered tools of war. Guerilla war could only occur, after the massive tunnel complex was under control to go in. Hamas was underneath with the ability to pop up just about anywhere (ambush from the ground underneath soft target areas).

This does not change what Israel does: instead of engaging Hamas on the ground, which they consider to be too tough and risk too many Israeli lives, they kill tens of thousands of civilians.

Hamas, who you call terrorists, simply attacks soft targets themselves to avoid a quick death. It's the exact same tactic.

They both engage in terrorism, but one does terrorism because they are resisting an exponentially more powerful foe that occupies almost all their land, and the other because they want to avoid troop losses.