Anti-semitic fear of Palestine Siege

[timewerx]

While Israel has the right to defend itself and provide deterrence against terrorists, I think Israel went too far in the present conflict and causing lots of deaths and misery in the region.

The call to ceasefire has fallen on deaf ears and the Western Coalition of nations pledging support for Israel's war campaign continues.

Yet a ceasefire could avert a humanitarian disaster in the Gaza strip and much more deaths. This is mercy and the humane thing to do.

But are countries choosing to be "Politically Correct" and avoiding the fear of being branded "Anti-Semitist" by supporting Israel's war campaign that is killing scores of innocent people everyday than save thousands of lives?

OR Palestinian lives do not matter?

Does Anti-Anti-Semitism now means only Israeli lives matter, anybody else don't??

 

[jayem]

While Israel has the right to defend itself and provide deterrence against terrorists, I think Israel went too far in the present conflict and causing lots of deaths and misery in the region.

The call to ceasefire has fallen on deaf ears and the Western Coalition of nations pledging support for Israel's war campaign continues.

Yet a ceasefire could avert a humanitarian disaster in the Gaza strip and much more deaths. This is mercy and the humane thing to do.

But are countries choosing to be "Politically Correct" and avoiding the fear of being branded "Anti-Semitist" by supporting Israel's war campaign that is killing scores of innocent people everyday than save thousands of lives?

OR Palestinian lives do not matter?

Does Anti-Anti-Semitism now means only Israeli lives matter, anybody else don't??

What does going “too far” mean? Did Hamas not go too far by killing 250 or so people at an outdoor music festival, and taking another 200+ persons hostage? I kinda doubt that many—if any at all—of these victims are Israeli military or intelligence personnel who might have been guilty of mistreating or oppressing Palestinians. What exactly should be Israel’s response to this attack on it’s citizens, and others, that doesn’t go too far?

 

[Riot42]

What does going “too far” mean? Did Hamas not go too far by killing 250 or so people at an outdoor music festival, and taking another 200+ persons hostage? I kinda doubt that many—if any at all—of these victims are Israeli military or intelligence personnel who might have been guilty of mistreating or oppressing Palestinians. What exactly should be Israel’s response to this attack on it’s citizens, and others, that doesn’t go too far?

Hear now the word of the Lord from Matthew 5:38-39, and answer your own question, what does going "too far" mean to our Lord Jesus Christ?

38 “You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’ 39 But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil.

 

[partinobodycular]

What does going “too far” mean?

It really depends on whether you mean "too far" from a strategic perspective, or "too far" from a moral/ethical perspective.

I'm going to assume that your question is meant in regards to the moral perspective, in which case, my personal opinion, based solely on logic... is that in Israel's case, as long as Hamas exists, there's no such thing as going "too far".

Hamas' stated goal is the complete destruction of Israel. Up to this point Israel's goal has simply been one of containment. But it's now clear that containment isn't working. So when faced with an adversary whose stated goal is to kill you, anything up to and including killing them is morally permissible, even if innocent people are harmed in the process.

That's one of the consequences of war, innocent people suffer. In this case Hamas has left Israel with little choice.

 

[jayem]

Hear now the word of the Lord from Matthew 5:38-39, and answer your own question, what does going "too far" mean to our Lord Jesus Christ?

I don’t think the New Testament will have much authority with the Israeli military. And neither will it influence Hamas or any iIslamic group.

 

[jayem]

It really depends on whether you mean "too far" from a strategic perspective, or "too far" from a moral/ethical perspective.

I'm going to assume that your question is meant in regards to the moral perspective, in which case, my personal opinion, based solely on logic... is that in Israel's case, as long as Hamas exists, there's no such thing as going "too far".

Hamas' stated goal is the complete destruction of Israel. Up to this point Israel's goal has simply been one of containment. But it's now clear that containment isn't working. So when faced with an adversary whose stated goal is to kill you, anything up to and including killing them is morally permissible, even if innocent people are harmed in the process.

That's one of the consequences of war, innocent people suffer. In this case Hamas has left Israel with little choice.

I agree. After 9/11, we didn’t go far enough to root out terrorist activity in Afghanistan. We wasted time, money, and American lives going after Saddam Hussein in Iraq. Who was a brutal dictator, for sure. But he had nothing to do with the Twin Towers attack.

 

[timewerx]

What does going “too far” mean? Did Hamas not go too far by killing 250 or so people at an outdoor music festival, and taking another 200+ persons hostage? I kinda doubt that many—if any at all—of these victims are Israeli military or intelligence personnel who might have been guilty of mistreating or oppressing Palestinians. What exactly should be Israel’s response to this attack on it’s citizens, and others, that doesn’t go too far?

Why can't Israel just use its intelligence assets to incentivize Palestinians to reveal Hamas locations, movements, plans, disable booby traps, etc and then eliminate targets with a small elite strike force on the ground via special or covert ops, also using embedded assets.

They would have saved a lot of money and avoided so many civilian casualties this way.

Or saving innocent Palestinian lives was never part of the plan......OR

Israel's intelligence assets are very poorly utilized than they have led the world to believe which ultimately led to the Hamas sneak attack in the first place.

Or they can't stand the idea of employing Palestinians to spy for them? Would rather bomb them than employ them as spies?

 

[partinobodycular]

Why can't Israel just use its intelligence assets to incentivize Palestinians to reveal Hamas locations, movements, plans, disable booby traps, etc and then eliminate targets with a small elite strike force on the ground via special or covert ops, also using embedded assets.

They've already tried that:

Israel drops leaflets in Gaza offering reward for hostage information

 

[Riot42]

I don’t think the New Testament will have much authority with the Israeli military. And neither will it influence Hamas or any iIslamic group.

It should have ALL authority for everyone reading here that claims Christ as their Lord and savior. Our position on this war should be based on what our Lord Jesus position would be, killing innocents including women and children with bombs has no justification. PERIOD. Both sides in this unjust war are acting unjustly.

A true follower of Christ is a pacifist and could never support war or killing. We are called by our Lord to love our enemies, how can we kill our enemy if we love them? The soldier portrayed in the film Hacksaw Ridge got it right.

 

[Aussie Pete]

While Israel has the right to defend itself and provide deterrence against terrorists, I think Israel went too far in the present conflict and causing lots of deaths and misery in the region.

The call to ceasefire has fallen on deaf ears and the Western Coalition of nations pledging support for Israel's war campaign continues.

Yet a ceasefire could avert a humanitarian disaster in the Gaza strip and much more deaths. This is mercy and the humane thing to do.

But are countries choosing to be "Politically Correct" and avoiding the fear of being branded "Anti-Semitist" by supporting Israel's war campaign that is killing scores of innocent people everyday than save thousands of lives?

OR Palestinian lives do not matter?

Does Anti-Anti-Semitism now means only Israeli lives matter, anybody else don't??

The civilian population is entirely the responsibility of Hamas. I've followed this closely. There are far more organisations that condemn Israel for defending itself than supporting Israel. From the United Nations (a farce of an organisation) to many universities, It is demanded that Israel do the impossible. Hamas is laughing at the "useful idiots" (a Muslim term) who support Hamas and condemn Israel.

Remember the hospital "bombing"? The dust had not settled before it was blamed on Israel. Miraculously, the world knew that Israel had bombed the place. Except it was a carpark, not the hospital and a Muslim missile, not an Israeli bomb.

Palestinian lives do matter. Tell that to Hamas, who are using them as human shields. What is your answer (that does not include the destruction of Israel)? If you have none, I suggest that you leave the subject alone.

 

[timewerx]

They've already tried that:

Israel drops leaflets in Gaza offering reward for hostage information

That message on the leaflet is a joke:

The Israeli military assures you that it will invest maximum effort in providing security for you and your home......

While the land where their home is situated is being relentlessly bombed.

 

[timewerx]

Palestinian lives do matter. Tell that to Hamas, who are using them as human shields. What is your answer (that does not include the destruction of Israel)? If you have none, I suggest that you leave the subject alone.

There is a solution.

I already told about it earlier, create intelligence assets among Palestinians or even the Hamas by offering them incentives to reveal Hamas locations, movements, and plans.

Someone posted that IDF already tried doing it but the problem is the reward Israel is offering is a joke. Israel could have at least offered political asylum to their whole family or facilitated immigration/relocation to another Muslim country that is actually safe and and economically stable like Saudi Arabia.

The way Israel's military campaign is unfolding is that people are starting to draw the wrong conclusions (or are they the wrong conclusions?) that Israel is destroying the whole place to discourage Palestinians form returning and Israel can take possession of the land at the reasoning that it would prevent the Hamas from returning (but would also prevent Palestinians from returning).

 

[partinobodycular]

The way Israel's military campaign is unfolding is that people are starting to draw the wrong conclusions (or are they the wrong conclusions?) that Israel is destroying the whole place to discourage Palestinians form returning and Israel can take possession of the land at the reasoning that it would prevent the Hamas from returning (but would also prevent Palestinians from returning).

Or simply control the setting in which they return. I.E. one in which their stated goal isn't the complete annihilation of the state of Israel. Which seems like a reasonable plan to me, and one which the rest of the world should help facilitate.

 

[timewerx]

Or simply control the setting in which they return. I.E. one in which their stated goal isn't the complete annihilation of the state of Israel. Which seems like a reasonable plan to me, and one which the rest of the world should help facilitate.

It would work if everyone is truly honest. But I doubt a terrorist admit their true goals if trying to be discreet.

But regardless of how this turns out, Israel should be subjected to war reparations as they have violate the international law on war.

 

[Aussie Pete]

There is a solution.

I already told about it earlier, create intelligence assets among Palestinians or even the Hamas by offering them incentives to reveal Hamas locations, movements, and plans.

Someone posted that IDF already tried doing it but the problem is the reward Israel is offering is a joke. Israel could have at least offered political asylum to their whole family or facilitated immigration/relocation to another Muslim country that is actually safe and and economically stable like Saudi Arabia.

The way Israel's military campaign is unfolding is that people are starting to draw the wrong conclusions (or are they the wrong conclusions?) that Israel is destroying the whole place to discourage Palestinians form returning and Israel can take possession of the land at the reasoning that it would prevent the Hamas from returning (but would also prevent Palestinians from returning).

The proposed solution was effective to some extent in Mosul and Afghanistan. I do not believe it can work in Gaza. Israel pulled out of Gaza to allow self determination. Gazans responded by voting in Hamas. Hamas murdered the Fatah members who ran for office. Gazans are far more afraid of Hamas than they are willing to help Israel. There is nowhere for them to run or hide. How would Israel get them out of Gaza? No one accepts Palestinian refugees apart from Jordan. Why is the Muslim world so disinterested in helping Palestinians? Israel gave 18,000 Gazans jobs in Israel. Hamas used them to spy on Israel and so to plan their attacks. Hamas refuses to let people leave the conflict zone. They are the ones hell bent on destroying Gaza. Every death on both sides of this war is entirely the responsibility of Hamas.

You do not know the depth of hatred that Palestinians have for Jews. Muslims hate non-Muslims anyway. It's mandated in the Qu'ran. They foolishly imagine that "Allah" is God and God is on their side. Palestinians have only one objective. That is the erasure of Israel as a nation. The optimists seek a two state solution. That will never happen, at least until after the rapture and the Antichrist appears. There are over 2 billion Muslims now. Every one of them is a potential Jihadist. So far there is only sporadic violence in the non Muslim nations. That will change when the church is raptured and the restraining authority and power of the church goes with her.

What should happen is for Gazans to be allowed to leave Gaza so that the IDF can deal with Hamas once and for all. Hamas will not permit this, of course. They are happy to sacrifice Gazan civilians, women and children, young and old, on the altar of Islam. I pray God gives Israel wisdom as to how to deal with their impossible task. We will see how this works out in the future.

This is the words of the son of a Hamas leader who became a Christian.

 

[timewerx]

The proposed solution was effective to some extent in Mosul and Afghanistan. I do not believe it can work in Gaza. Israel pulled out of Gaza to allow self determination. Gazans responded by voting in Hamas. Hamas murdered the Fatah members who ran for office. Gazans are far more afraid of Hamas than they are willing to help Israel. There is nowhere for them to run or hide. How would Israel get them out of Gaza? No one accepts Palestinian refugees apart from Jordan. Why is the Muslim world so disinterested in helping Palestinians? Israel gave 18,000 Gazans jobs in Israel. Hamas used them to spy on Israel and so to plan their attacks. Hamas refuses to let people leave the conflict zone. They are the ones hell bent on destroying Gaza. Every death on both sides of this war is entirely the responsibility of Hamas.

You do not know the depth of hatred that Palestinians have for Jews. Muslims hate non-Muslims anyway. It's mandated in the Qu'ran. They foolishly imagine that "Allah" is God and God is on their side. Palestinians have only one objective. That is the erasure of Israel as a nation. The optimists seek a two state solution. That will never happen, at least until after the rapture and the Antichrist appears. There are over 2 billion Muslims now. Every one of them is a potential Jihadist. So far there is only sporadic violence in the non Muslim nations. That will change when the church is raptured and the restraining authority and power of the church goes with her.

What should happen is for Gazans to be allowed to leave Gaza so that the IDF can deal with Hamas once and for all. Hamas will not permit this, of course. They are happy to sacrifice Gazan civilians, women and children, young and old, on the altar of Islam. I pray God gives Israel wisdom as to how to deal with their impossible task. We will see how this works out in the future.

This is the words of the son of a Hamas leader who became a Christian.

I worked for two years in the Middle East as "laborer" from a poor country so I didn't have the "diplomatic immunity" you guys would have if you worked in the Middle East.

But, I never felt persecuted while working there. All my Arab co-workers knew I'm a Christian, yet, they treated me as one of their own. As if I'm also a Muslim Arab.

Many of them suspected me of being a Jewish spy or the Mossad because of my Semitic appearance, a very distinct personality, and a slightly Jewish accent of all ironies.

But it never made them hostile to me. As I've said, they treated me as one of their own. They treated so well that it makes it SO HARD for me to dislike them. If you want to hear some hard-hitting irony, I've seen more generosity from Muslims than from Christians.

I've also come across Syrians, Yemenis, and ofc Palestinians while working there. I made small talk to them and there's not the slightest bit of hatred.

I've also worked with an Iranian engineer who used to work in an Iranian nuclear power plant. Again, no hatred. Trust me, I know hatred so well, I can quickly discern it from a person just by looking and how much more with conversation.

Even many Israelis protests against Netanyahu's bloody campaign against Palestinians because they probably seen the same kindness out of Palestinians who were co-workers, neighbors, and friends.

Muslims hate non-Muslims anyway. It's mandated in the Qu'ran

Perhaps, it is to be taken into context because my Muslim co-workers, friends, and neighbors did not act like it. Quite the opposite.

Christians also face similar dilemmas in the Bible. The Bible prophesied the corruption of Christianity. It will be overrun by people who will substitute worldly prosperity over spirituality and that many/most who say they are Christians are not and will be judged, condemned.

Many Christians think it's harmless to desire and eventually try to achieve some worldly prosperity and spend most of you money for your own enjoyment. Yet it's not. Jesus spoke against it. It's greed. Greed is directly the cause of all the world's poverty. Poverty is much much worse than Islamic Jihad by corrupted Muslims. Poverty kills and brings suffering much much more than Jihads.

Yet Christians are a huge part of the problem in this world that leads to poverty (desolation). We may not be wielding swords but through the consequences of our worldly behavior and disobedience from what Christ is telling us to do, we may end up killing way more than those who wield swords.

If we should judge, make sure you're not committing the same crime or worse.

 

[Runningman]

While Israel has the right to defend itself and provide deterrence against terrorists, I think Israel went too far in the present conflict and causing lots of deaths and misery in the region.

The call to ceasefire has fallen on deaf ears and the Western Coalition of nations pledging support for Israel's war campaign continues.

Yet a ceasefire could avert a humanitarian disaster in the Gaza strip and much more deaths. This is mercy and the humane thing to do.

But are countries choosing to be "Politically Correct" and avoiding the fear of being branded "Anti-Semitist" by supporting Israel's war campaign that is killing scores of innocent people everyday than save thousands of lives?

OR Palestinian lives do not matter?

Does Anti-Anti-Semitism now means only Israeli lives matter, anybody else don't??

This is what war is. There are going to be winners and losers. It’s going to get messy and feelings are going to get hurt. They shouldn’t have attacked Israel’s homeland. Now they’re going to regret it. Any country who attacks another country may be subject to retaliation.

This just is just how the world works unfortunately. It would be nice if there was no war, but alas there is.

The situation in Israel was already tense and had been at a tipping point for a long time. It’s a proverbial powder keg in that region and Israel has wanted to destroy their enemies for a while. It’s too late to say sorry. They’re out for blood and they’re going to take it, but they were just waiting for an excuse. Maybe after the smoke clears they should make smarter decisions and mind their own business.

 

[Aussie Pete]

I worked for two years in the Middle East as "laborer" from a poor country so I didn't have the "diplomatic immunity" you guys would have if you worked in the Middle East.

But, I never felt persecuted while working there. All my Arab co-workers knew I'm a Christian, yet, they treated me as one of their own. As if I'm also a Muslim Arab.

Many of them suspected me of being a Jewish spy or the Mossad because of my Semitic appearance, a very distinct personality, and a slightly Jewish accent of all ironies.

But it never made them hostile to me. As I've said, they treated me as one of their own. They treated so well that it makes it SO HARD for me to dislike them. If you want to hear some hard-hitting irony, I've seen more generosity from Muslims than from Christians.

I've also come across Syrians, Yemenis, and ofc Palestinians while working there. I made small talk to them and there's not the slightest bit of hatred.

I've also worked with an Iranian engineer who used to work in an Iranian nuclear power plant. Again, no hatred. Trust me, I know hatred so well, I can quickly discern it from a person just by looking and how much more with conversation.

Even many Israelis protests against Netanyahu's bloody campaign against Palestinians because they probably seen the same kindness out of Palestinians who were co-workers, neighbors, and friends.



Perhaps, it is to be taken into context because my Muslim co-workers, friends, and neighbors did not act like it. Quite the opposite.

Christians also face similar dilemmas in the Bible. The Bible prophesied the corruption of Christianity. It will be overrun by people who will substitute worldly prosperity over spirituality and that many/most who say they are Christians are not and will be judged, condemned.

Many Christians think it's harmless to desire and eventually try to achieve some worldly prosperity and spend most of you money for your own enjoyment. Yet it's not. Jesus spoke against it. It's greed. Greed is directly the cause of all the world's poverty. Poverty is much much worse than Islamic Jihad by corrupted Muslims. Poverty kills and brings suffering much much more than Jihads.

Yet Christians are a huge part of the problem in this world that leads to poverty (desolation). We may not be wielding swords but through the consequences of our worldly behavior and disobedience from what Christ is telling us to do, we may end up killing way more than those who wield swords.

If we should judge, make sure you're not committing the same crime or worse.

I also have experience living in a Muslim nation. I was at high school then, in Aden. My parents worked there. There were a lot of military families as it was a British military base. I know a woman who was 14 years old at the time. She was raped by an Arab. Our transport was harrased on the way from the airport to our new home. A couple of years later, the British pulled out. Yemen is still racked by violence and hatred.

Muslims are fine until they are not. Over 60 % of migrants taken in by Denmark have criminal records. I was born in London, now colloquially known as "Londonistan". The Muslim mayor says that people have to get used to murderous attacks by Muslims. Try being a Christian in Pakistan, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan or Kuwait. Christians are persecuted in Indonesia, supposedly the best example of Muslim acceptance of other religions.

I suggest that you take a look at the good that Christians do instead of blaming us for the evils that Islam perpetrates. There are many organisations working to help Muslims. They mean well, but if they say a word about Jesus, they will end up in prison or worse. Muslims cheerfully kill anyone who dares turn away from Islam. You do not hear of Christians murdering someone who accepts Islam. Don't be deceived. Islam is a religion of death that has inflitrated the Western world. 44 million in Europe. If only 5% are radicalised, that is over a million jihadists. The UK encourages Muslims to join the military. Brilliant. Teach them how to kill much more efficiently. Some of those soldiers have gone rogue after finishing their service.

Don't fall for the Muslim deception. I'm 72, so I may not live to see it, but one day Muslims will answer the call to Jihad. Right now, it is unlikely. Israel will prevail and Muslims will probably not react. Sunnis hate Iran anyway, so the Sunni/Shia clash is a good thing. However, I can't see that lasting as Muslims unite against Israel. I'm not a prophet, so I base my ideas on what I've read and studied. I've not followed the progress of Islam in the West for a couple of years. I was getting too involved, too angry at government indifference, cowardice and ignorance and I had to quit.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

While Israel has the right to defend itself and provide deterrence against terrorists, I think Israel went too far in the present conflict and causing lots of deaths and misery in the region.

The call to ceasefire has fallen on deaf ears and the Western Coalition of nations pledging support for Israel's war campaign continues.

Yet a ceasefire could avert a humanitarian disaster in the Gaza strip and much more deaths. This is mercy and the humane thing to do.

But are countries choosing to be "Politically Correct" and avoiding the fear of being branded "Anti-Semitist" by supporting Israel's war campaign that is killing scores of innocent people everyday than save thousands of lives?

OR Palestinian lives do not matter?

Does Anti-Anti-Semitism now means only Israeli lives matter, anybody else don't??

Hamas must be destroyed. Otherwise this will keep happening. Israel has had enough. A ceasefire would allow Hamas to regroup. You have to ask WHY the other surrounding Arab Nations will not take in the "palestinians". That was the agreement in 1947/48 when Egypt and Jordan ALSO got land, or are you conveniently forgetting that??? Why are you not asking them why "palestinian" lives do not matter...

 

[ralliann]

What does going “too far” mean? Did Hamas not go too far by killing 250 or so people at an outdoor music festival, and taking another 200+ persons hostage? I kinda doubt that many—if any at all—of these victims are Israeli military or intelligence personnel who might have been guilty of mistreating or oppressing Palestinians. What exactly should be Israel’s response to this attack on it’s citizens, and others, that doesn’t go too far?

All the people supporting "palestinians" are siding with Hamas, to encourage putting their own people in harms way works.