Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Bradskii]

And if Israel did it I would call them out as well. So far that I've seen they haven't done that.

But you've seen it in this thread. And have said nothing.

 

[civilwarbuff]

Oh goodie, the White House never lies! We can always trust our government to tell us the truth.

Why not? There's plenty here who believe hamas is telling the truth about gazan death toll........

 

[rjs330]

But you've seen it in this thread. And have said nothing.

When have they targeted children?

 

[Bradskii]

When have they targeted children?

I'm at a complete loss that you cannot follow a basic sequence of posts. You even quoted me making the point I have been making for umpteen posts and said that you agreed with it.

This is like Alice Through The Looking Glass...

 

[Philip_B]

I'm at a complete loss that you cannot follow a basic sequence of posts. You even quoted me making the point I have been making for umpteen posts and said that you agreed with it.

This is like Alice Through The Looking Glass...

or Alice Through The NOT Looking Glass!!!

 

[rjs330]

I'm at a complete loss that you cannot follow a basic sequence of posts. You even quoted me making the point I have been making for umpteen posts and said that you agreed with it.

This is like Alice Through The Looking Glass...

I agreed that you shouldn't deliberately target children. I said Hamas has deliberately targeted children. And then you went on some rant about pictures and targeting children and I don't understand the equivalence on how showing pictures is targeting children to kill them.

Then I asked when Israel targeted children and you write this.

Look I agree that you shouldn't deliberately target children who aren't carrying guns or shooting at you or trying to kill you. No you shouldn't target them. That's what Hamas did and I called them out on it.

So far you haven't shown any evidence of Israel deliberately targeting children who mean them no harm. When they do I will call them out.

 

[rjs330]

I'm at a complete loss that you cannot follow a basic sequence of posts. You even quoted me making the point I have been making for umpteen posts and said that you agreed with it.

This is like Alice Through The Looking Glass...

By the way I NEVER agreed that Israel targeted children. I made an assumption that when you say you don't think children should be targeted that you meant young kids who pose no threat. Was I wrong?

I don't think young kids who pose no threat should be targeted. No matter who does it. I just haven't seen you post any evidence that Israel has done that.

Hamas has. Israel hasn't.

 

[o_mlly]

But you've seen it in this thread. And have said nothing.

Seen what? A staged picture of children being trained in combat? Yes, that would raise eyebrows. Do you have one to share?

Have you noticed that radical leftists have difficulty with the simplest of questions? Like, "What is a woman?" or "What is a child?"

 

[o_mlly]

This is the HISTORY of the world which teaches their own to hate each other, to make war, to fight and to harm. It will never stop.

Yes. This war will be over when the Palestinians learn to love their children more than they hate the Jews. (Paraphrasing Golda Meir).

 

[Philip_B]

Yes. This war will be over when the Palestinians learn to love their children more than they hate the Jews. (Paraphrasing Golda Meir).

And when Israel remembers that Ishmael is also a child of Abraham.

 

[o_mlly]

And when Israel remembers that Ishmael is also a child of Abraham.

What gives you the idea that Israel has forgotten that? They are not the unjust aggressor,

 

[Philip_B]

I have in no sense suggested that Israel is an unjust oppressor, however, it appears that in the relentless pursuit of their objectives, they have been prepared to accept a high level of collateral damage. The last President of the United States on one occasion when he exercised significant restraint spoke of the need for a commensurate response. Without that sort of approach, all you can end up with is escalation.

If you eliminate all your adversaries, that does not give you peace, all it gives you is an absence of conflict.

The Jewish people suffered abominably under the Nazi regime. I would hope that they will not similarly treat others.

I am a long way from thinking that Hamas is the primary problem here, but rather fear that they might be being used as 'useful idiots' by other players in the region. That being said, not all Palestinians are Hamas, however, if you were a Palestinian at the moment could you see yourself aligned with Israel?

We all share a common humanity, and we all need to do better at enabling that to flourish in ourselves and in others.

 

[Valletta]

The Pro-Palestinian group Within Our Lifetime, which organized the "flood JFK for Gaza" protest, claimed "victory" Monday afternoon. The group said that entrances to the airport had been closed to people without a flight ticket and claimed that protesters in terminal four were removed by law enforcement.

Pro-Palestinian protesters disrupt JFK Airport in New York

Pro-Palestinian protesters assembled a car caravan on Monday in a bid to disrupt the operations of John F. Kennedy International Airport in New York City.

www.washingtonexaminer.com

 

[Robban]

I have in no sense suggested that Israel is an unjust oppressor, however, it appears that in the relentless pursuit of their objectives, they have been prepared to accept a high level of collateral damage. The last President of the United States on one occasion when he exercised significant restraint spoke of the need for a commensurate response. Without that sort of approach, all you can end up with is escalation.

If you eliminate all your adversaries, that does not give you peace, all it gives you is an absence of conflict.

The Jewish people suffered abominably under the Nazi regime. I would hope that they will not similarly treat others.

I am a long way from thinking that Hamas is the primary problem here, but rather fear that they might be being used as 'useful idiots' by other players in the region. That being said, not all Palestinians are Hamas, however, if you were a Palestinian at the moment could you see yourself aligned with Israel?

We all share a common humanity, and we all need to do better at enabling that to flourish in ourselves and in others.

The plot thickens if taken into account that there is estimated an enormous amount of gas and oil in Gaza.

A few trillion cubic feet natural gas worth billions.

If it is true.

 

[Valletta]

The plot thickens if taken into account that there is estimated an enormous amount of gas and oil in Gaza.

A few trillion cubic feet natural gas worth billions.

If it is true.

Israel wants peace. They gave back land and let the Gazans have self-rule. And the result was that Israeli innocents, even babies, were slaughtered. And Hamas holds hostages. Hamas did not return American hostages, so don't forget that the jihadists will come for the Christians after the Jews.

 

[Robban]

Israel wants peace. They gave back land and let the Gazans have self-rule. And the result was that Israeli innocents, even babies, were slaughtered. And Hamas holds hostages. Hamas did not return American hostages, so don't forget that the jihadists will come for the Christians after the Jews.

I do not know, I am not Sherlock Holmes,
We shall see what we shall see.

 

[o_mlly]

I have in no sense suggested that Israel is an unjust oppressor, however, it appears that in the relentless pursuit of their objectives, they have been prepared to accept a high level of collateral damage. The last President of the United States on one occasion when he exercised significant restraint spoke of the need for a commensurate response. Without that sort of approach, all you can end up with is escalation.

How do you define a "commensurate response"?

If you eliminate all your adversaries, that does not give you peace, all it gives you is an absence of conflict.

In wars, that outcome is at most times the best one can expect.

The Jewish people suffered abominably under the Nazi regime. I would hope that they will not similarly treat others.

The two events are not equivocal. In the former, the Nazis were the unjust aggressors. In the present conflict, Hamas is the unjust aggressor.

I am a long way from thinking that Hamas is the primary problem here, but rather fear that they might be being used as 'useful idiots' by other players in the region. That being said, not all Palestinians are Hamas, however, if you were a Palestinian at the moment could you see yourself aligned with Israel?

If the "useful idiots" are the ones doing the murdering, I suggest that they are the primary problem.

Yes, I could see myself as a moral man aligning with the Israelis in this conflict. If the post-war investigations demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that war crimes were committed then those Israelis and Palestinians responsible should be punished.

 

[Philip_B]

How do you define a "commensurate response"?

Bringing to justice the particular people who committed the atrocities. I affirm Israel has a right and a need to defend itself and its people, however, that is not a white card to do whatever they like.

In wars, that outcome is at most times the best one can expect.

Do I take that to mean that Peace is no longer an objective? That would seem to suggest that you might entertain genocide as a commensurate response, a view I do not share.

The two events are not equivocal. In the former, the Nazis were the unjust aggressors. In the present conflict, Hamas is the unjust aggressor.

The events of October 7 are deplorable. Do I deplore them? Absolutely! It does seem to me that the sign on the fence says 'Don't poke the bear'. Anyone contemplating the actions would have seen that Israel would respond with lethal force. Rationally this would never be a good outcome for the people of the Gaza Strip. This is a very small strip of land - 365 sq km. Rhode Island, the smallest State in the US is 3,144 sq km, and New York City is 784 sq km. Surely there are better solutions.

If the "useful idiots" are the ones doing the murdering, I suggest that they are the primary problem.

Or perhaps we could get some better intelligence and understand what is happening and why. I believe that there is a lot of complexity and that this is not about 3 months but rather 3000 years of history if not longer. Over-simplifying this will only exacerbate the issues. Every one of these people involved here are persons with real human stories, made in the image and after the likeness of God. Jews, Muslims, Christians, Atheists, and everybody else as well.

Yes, I could see myself as a moral man aligning with the Israelis in this conflict. If the post-war investigations demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that war crimes were committed then those Israelis and Palestinians responsible should be punished.

Agreed.

 

[Valletta]

The events of October 7 are deplorable. Do I deplore them? Absolutely! It does seem to me that the sign on the fence says 'Don't poke the bear'. Anyone contemplating the actions would have seen that Israel would respond with lethal force. Rationally this would never be a good outcome for the people of the Gaza Strip. This is a very small strip of land - 365 sq km. Rhode Island, the smallest State in the US is 3,144 sq km, and New York City is 784 sq km. Surely there are better solutions.

So far no one has proposed a better solution.

 

[civilwarbuff]

If you eliminate all your adversaries, that does not give you peace, all it gives you is an absence of conflict.

ehhh.....you might want to reconsider that statement.....
peace /pēs/

noun​

1. The absence of war or other hostilities.
2. An agreement or a treaty to end hostilities.
   "negotiated the peace."
3. Freedom from quarrels and disagreement; harmonious relations.
   "roommates living in peace with each other."