Israel-Hamas Thread II

[essentialsaltes]

There was evidence of hostages being detained there.

Other than curtains?

But in its recent outreach to global allies, Israel has released several pieces of inaccurate or disputed information including claiming that an Arabic calendar was a shift schedule for Hamas kidnappers, and using curtains as evidence that hostage videos had been filmed in a hospital.

There is testimony that Hamas used the hospital as a staging ground and there were Hamas fighters there.

Other than the nurse video that the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs posted and then later deleted?

Video of 'nurse' denouncing Hamas occupation of Gaza's Al-Shifa Hospital is staged​

Maybe Israel didn't find what they thought was there.

But that was their stated justification for attacks that led to the death of patients.

 

[Philip_B]

There is testimony that Hamas used the hospital as a staging ground and there were Hamas fighters there. Maybe Israel didn't find what they thought was there. Maybe their military intelligence was wrong about a major operations and planning site. Oh well. That happens all the time in war. Military intelligence is never 100% accurate. But the truth is Hamas WAS there and WAS using the hospital for something. And that makes the hospital a legitimate target.

Unless of course, they were using it as a hospital.

 

[Bradskii]

Nope. Another strawman. I made no such suggestion. As a fact, I showed that you posted the un-amended portion of the article.

So how can I cut and paste something that didn't then exist? The only way I could have done that was by actually changing it myself. You made a mistake in saying it was changed before I posted it. You were wrong and you've spent quite a few posts avoiding that fact. In fact you have avoided addressing the very reason for the original post.

And some of you guys seem to spend a lot of bandwidth either denying the death toll or trying to convince everyone that there are very few innocent people. And that would shamefully include all the children. If this is a just war, then why bother? The death toll is then just whatever figure is stated and it's acceptable.

The constant posts denying it show the truth.

 

[Bradskii]

The only reason for this shameful insinuation that children can be valid targets is …

Why do you persist in claiming children (need your definition of "children") can never be engaged in doing harm?

Ye gods and little fishes...I'm going to have to start using all caps and a larger font to actually get this point through to you and others. Please pay attention:

People are justifiably complaining about the civilian deaths. There have been Lord knows how many posts showing that umpteen organisations have generally accepted, for reasons given, that the figures are reasonably accurate. So some people claimed that not all civilians were innocent. With me so far?

So the fact that children were being killed was pointed out as an undeniable (one would have thought) example of innocent deaths. Still with me?

From that point onwards, and starting with you, we have had pictures of kids with guns and link after link showing the tragedy of children being coerced into violence. Suggesting that hey, all those dead children? Well, they may not be as innocent as you think...

I've been pointing this out for any number of posts. And what do we get? People actually doubling down on the argument. Posting more links of tragic youth involvement. Even questioning whether we understand that young people have been involved in tragic incidents. That is not the point!

The point is that this shameful litany of examples are being used as an attempt to suggest the figures aren't to be taken as acccurate because children cannot be included as innocent victims.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Other than curtains?

Yes.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Yes.

Can you show me this evidence?

 

[Carl Emerson]

Can you show me this evidence?

 

[essentialsaltes]

That is Al-Rantisi hospital, not al-Shifa.

 

[Carl Emerson]

That is Al-Rantisi hospital, not al-Shifa.

Right - I see that now - but it does confirm Hamas uses hospitals to restrain hostages.

 

[Carl Emerson]

This testimony from a released hostage will help to understand what we are dealing with.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Right - I see that now - but it does confirm Hamas uses hospitals to restrain hostages.

The question on the table is whether the IDF was justified in raiding the Al-Shifa hospital, causing the deaths of patients, including newborns.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The question on the table is whether the IDF was justified in raiding the Al-Shifa hospital, causing the deaths of patients, including newborns.

At this stage it is hard to be sure what happened and what was justified.

Our measures of justification vary wildly in any case - some believe the massacre of innocents including children and babies by Hamas was justified.

 

[Robban]

At this stage it is hard to be sure what happened and what was justified.

Our measures of justification vary wildly in any case - some believe the massacre of innocents including children and babies by Hamas was justified.

"Justice and mercy are the foundation of Your throne".

What does the one on the throne say?

A little birdie whispered in my ear,

Ezekiel 18:32.

Could be something in that.

 

[Carl Emerson]

"Justice and mercy are the foundation of Your throne".

What does the one on the throne say?

A little birdie whispered in my ear,

Ezekiel 18:32.

Could be something in that.

Yes - that is a deep and Eternal Truth.

 

[essentialsaltes]

At this stage it is hard to be sure what happened and what was justified.

We know that Israel asserted that the raid was justified because of the Hamas command center at the hospital. But in the aftermath, we have not been shown any evidence of a Hamas command center.

 

[Carl Emerson]

This interview will help understand what we are dealing with also...

Mike Huckabee in Kfar Aza: These sights are worse than I could have imagined

Former Arkansas Governor speaks to Arutz Sheva about his visit to southern Israeli town. 'What happened to the Jewish people here was evil.'

www.israelnationalnews.com

 

[rjs330]

The question on the table is whether the IDF was justified in raiding the Al-Shifa hospital, causing the deaths of patients, including newborns.

Of course they were justified we KNOW for a fact that Hamas uses hospitals. Just because the military intelligence may have been wrong on the extent of use in Al-Shifa is in no way a lack of justification to believe they were using it. They did find things in the complex that showed they were. Just maybe not to the extent they originally believed.

 

[Vambram]

https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/382288

The IDF takes control of Hamas' "elite quarter."

 

[rjs330]

We know that Israel asserted that the raid was justified because of the Hamas command center at the hospital. But in the aftermath, we have not been shown any evidence of a Hamas command center.

So? You expect them to be right 100% of the time? My what an impossible expectation to have. Do expect that from everyone or just the Jews?

 

[o_mlly]

So how can I cut and paste something that didn't then exist?

Go back and read the post and you'll see your error.

Ye gods and little fishes...

Take a deep breath, hold it and calm down.

Hamas was correct: there are many gullible Westerners whose emotions rule them.

Hamas' strategy:

• Let's viciously murder and mutilate as many innocent Jews as possible in a sneak attack.
• Let's record the slaughter and share the videos on public media celebrating the event.
• The Jews will have no other choice but to respond.
• The weak Westerners love their children. We use them as suicide bombers and shields.
• We'll embed our soldiers and war supplies among our children and other presumably innocent persons.
• We'll issue false reports on the number of innocents killed emphasizing the number of children killed.
• The weak Westerners will emotionally respond to our lies and tell Israel to stop the war.
• The weak Westerners will not offer Israel any other option but to stand down and wait for our next attack.
• But if we tell the weak Westerners our strategy then the Israelis will not stop the war?
• No worries. That would be the rational. Remember, the Westerners are ruled by their emotions.
• We win.

Now, tell us the rest of your ideas besides advising Israel to stand down.