American embrace of conspiracy: poll

USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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It is interesting that there is ZERO mention of the Russian collusion conspiracy theory that millions of people fell for and, believe it or not - there are still today some that believe it was true.
There was no Russian collusion conspiracy theory. There was a lot of coordination between various folks in Donald's campaign and the Russians (see Paul Manafort) and some of us recently learned that a binder of intelligence regarding Russian interference in 2016 is missing.

I wonder why Donald took it.
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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and.....? Has the millions made by the Biden family been the subject of a two and a half year investigation costing 40,000,000, 19 attorney's, 40 special agents? Have the Biden's provided more than 1,000,000 pages of documentation? Has it consumed the vast majority of Main Street media on a nightly? How about 2,800 subpoenas - how many have been issued against Biden?
Citation needed.
 
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Occams Barber

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I know you are far more acquainted with American culture than than I am of antipodean culture, but I'm going to reply as if you're a tabula rasa.

The embrace of conspiracy by the right has a long history in America. There was the Red scare back in the 50s, not entirely unwarranted but certainly encouraged a certain amount of paranoia. In the sixties the John Birtch Society came along and that was pretty much the same thing, but a little less mainstream.

By the seventies we have the dawning of Evangelical Christian conspiracy theory, and I think the Genesis of that (no pun intended) was Late Great Planet Earth. Eschatology and politics became more intertwined in the Evangelical mind causing them to look for patterns and signs that were typical of a conspiracy theorist. By the '80s and '90s you had Jack Van Impe, The Prophecy Club, Creationists like Hovind and Ham who didn't merely think evolution and deep time were wrong, but an orchestrated attack on Christianity, the Left Behind series. There was also the Satanic Panic.

The 90s also so the right begin to engage in secular, political conspiracy mongering. The Clinton's were running a drug and murder operation out of Mena, Arkansas. Hilary had Vince Foster murdered for (reasons). The New World Order was going to send United Nations troops in to take our guns and enslave us.

35 years of that from the Conservisphere and I can see why right is much mote likely to think a cabal of elites, most of whom are literally demonic, want to take their guns, send them to reeducation camps, and execute them if they won't take the depopulation vaccine so the earth can be reduced to a population of 500 million.

So it's a kind of national hobby?

Is it possible that the internet and social media has taken a relatively harmless pre-occupation and amplified it to the point of creating a dangerous set of beliefs.

I am leaning to the view that the promotion of conspiracy theories, misinformation, disinformation and downright lies has become so dangerous that we may need to clamp down on the concept of free speech as the lesser of two evils.

OB
 
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USincognito

a post by Alan Smithee
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So it's a kind of national hobby?
If only it were that innocuous.
Is it possible that the internet and social media has taken a relatively harmless pre-occupation and amplified it to the point of creating a dangerous set of beliefs.
Most definitely.

In the good old days you had to listen to certain AM radio stations which prompted you to order VHS videos full of garbage via mail and subscribe to poorly Mimiographed newsletters. These days the garbage comes to you on Twitter or Facebook and it's a 30 second search to find videos full of garbage on YouTube or Rumble.
I am leaning to the view that the promotion of conspiracy theories, misinformation, disinformation and downright lies has become so dangerous that we may need to clamp down on the concept of free speech as the lesser of two evils.
I'm not there, but it is very telling that any mention of trying to crack down on disinformation gets conservatives shrieking.
 
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Merrill

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I also find it surprising that pet theories the left promotes didn't find their way onto the list. Examples include:

1. Russian-collusion hoax, which was promoted by dozens of MSM journalists, DNC operatives, and politicians. There was zero evidence for any of it.
2. That the 2016 election was "stolen" by Donald Trump and the Russians. Democrats continue to make this claim. Hillary Clinton maintains the election was a fraud, and that Trump acted illegal to steal it from her.
3. That Donald Trump used the US Postal Service to prevent people from obtaining ballots in the 2020 election (a guy on this forum continues to say this is true)
4. That the Wuhan Institute of Virology wasn't studying coronaviruses, wasn't engaged in GoF research, had no accidents, that no one there got sick, and anyone who claims any of this is a "right-wing conspiracy theorist"

yeah, I could go on and on.

and people who think men can have babies shouldn't be calling anyone stupid
 
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There was no Russian collusion conspiracy theory. There was a lot of coordination between various folks in Donald's campaign and the Russians (see Paul Manafort) and some of us recently learned that a binder of intelligence regarding Russian interference in 2016 is missing.
As I said: , a 2.5 year investigation costing 40,000,000 - 19 attorney's - 40 FBI Special agents - 2,800 subpoena's - 1,000,000 pages of documentation. Witnesses on two continents questioned.

All based on the Russian Collusion conspiracy theory - and some people still believe it was not a conspiracy theory. The lead of this fiasco, Adam Schiff was censured by congress for lying to the American public, and yet people still believe it was not a conspiracy theory, they hold onto it like grim death.

Go figure....
 
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essentialsaltes

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que up the Democrat who literally believes the nonsense about Russians stealing our elections ...
Or we could cite the Senate Intel Committee report documenting the interference which you probably have never even heard of.
 
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Bipartisan Senate Intelligence Report: 2016 Trump campaign chair “grave counterintelligence threat”

Posts #1, #4 and #5 in particular point out the significant contacts and passage of information between the Trump campaign and agents of Russian intelligence and the Russian government.
None proven - not one charge against Trump (the one who was supposedly colluding), after 2.5 years, $40,000,000, 2,800 subpoena's, 1,000,000 pages of documents, 19 federal attorney's and 40 FBI special agents.

And people still believe it happened - that by definition shows it a conspiracy theory.
 
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It took years before the investigators could extract the needed evidence from Trump's lawyers and his co-conspirators, not to mention the court orders to get phone records.

Evidence matters.

Now, nearly all of the evidence against Trump is coming from his own people!

Trump is going down, and it is not because of any conspiracy theories!
 
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essentialsaltes

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None proven - not one charge against Trump (the one who was supposedly colluding)

You brought up "the Russian collusion conspiracy theory". Likewise, Merrill mentioned the "Russian-collusion hoax". There is plenty of evidence (and indictments, guilty pleas, imprisonments, and pardons) related to that matter.

No one has asserted the "Trump was charged with 'collusion' conspiracy theory".
 
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Merrill

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You brought up "the Russian collusion conspiracy theory". Likewise, Merrill mentioned the "Russian-collusion hoax". There is plenty of evidence (and indictments, guilty pleas, imprisonments, and pardons) related to that matter.

No one has asserted the "Trump was charged with 'collusion' conspiracy theory".
The Mueller report concluded "the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities". Independent research has concluded the same.

Foreign governments have spread propaganda involving our political officials for decades, and it precedes social media. The idea that Trump met with members of the Russian secret service, coordinated a disinformation campaign, forged documents, bribed people, whatever, is complete nonsense.

you can believe what you want, but this is 100% a conspiracy theory.
 
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essentialsaltes

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The Mueller report concluded "the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities".
That's what Bill Barr concluded the Mueller Report concluded in Barr's summary that Mueller complained about. The full sentence provides more context:

Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

As is obvious from the convictions of people who lied about it afterwards, the report "identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump campaign".

The idea that Trump met with members of the Russian secret service, coordinated a disinformation campaign, forged documents, bribed people, whatever
Nobody here has asserted that.
 
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Merrill

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That's what Bill Barr concluded the Mueller Report concluded in Barr's summary that Mueller complained about. The full sentence provides more context:

Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump Campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.

As is obvious from the convictions of people who lied about it afterwards, the report "identified numerous links between the Russian government and the Trump campaign".


Nobody here has asserted that.
Crossfire Hurricane was a witch hunt, and the Durham report said it never should have been launched by the FBI. And as I pointed out above, the Mueller report cleared Trump.

Who in Trump's inner-circle (or Trump himself) was convicted of espionage and election interference? A minor figure, George Papadopoulos got in trouble for lying to the FBI, but that was about it (if memory serves me right). He was not convicted of espionage.

The money spent, agencies involved, and Herculean effort made by the Democratic Party and its allies in three-letter agencies to find a "smoking gun" or pile of evidence that proved Trump worked directly with Russian intelligence officials to steal the election came up totally empty. The whole thing was a joke and a witch hunt.

And you better believe all presidential politicians talk with, and have loose ties to, foreign officials, politicians, etc. The Clinton's have deep ties to foreign governments.

like I said --it is a conspiracy theory.
 
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