American embrace of conspiracy: poll

[hislegacy]

You brought up "the Russian collusion conspiracy theory". Likewise, Merrill mentioned the "Russian-collusion hoax". There is plenty of evidence (and indictments, guilty pleas, imprisonments, and pardons) related to that matter.

No one has asserted the "Trump was charged with 'collusion' conspiracy theory".

none of which conclusory support the conspiracy theory

 

[essentialsaltes]

And as I pointed out above, the Mueller report cleared Trump.

It "did not establish" some potential conclusions with regard to Russia. Obstruction is quite another matter, but the DOJ ruling that the sitting president can't be indicted meant that Mueller could not pursue that avenue very far. Nevertheless:

Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations

convicted of espionage and election interference?

Trump worked directly with Russian intelligence officials

These are just strawmen. They don't alter what we do know for a fact about the Trump Campaign and Russia, and a number of people guilty of lying about it.

 

[essentialsaltes]

none of which conclusory support the conspiracy theory

Only if you are proposing a strawman version of "the" conspiracy theory.

 

[Merrill]

It "did not establish" some potential conclusions with regard to Russia. Obstruction is quite another matter, but the DOJ ruling that the sitting president can't be indicted meant that Mueller could not pursue that avenue very far. Nevertheless:

Our investigation found multiple acts by the President that were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations, including the Russian-interference and obstruction investigations


These are just strawmen. They don't alter what we do know for a fact about the Trump Campaign and Russia, and a number of people guilty of lying about it.

They are not strawmen

you are playing the game of "well it isn't really a conspiracy theory, because something did happen, even though Trump was officially cleared, but they couldn't prosecute him anyway, and some people lied, and even though there is no evidence ..."

Trump's campaign had no more foreign connections and contacts than Clinton's campaign did (likely less). The Biden family has been deeply involved in both Chinese and Ukrainian affairs, some under-the-table, both of those countries have exerted influence on our elections. Do you think China doesn't spread propaganda on social media? There are countless examples.

You can believe what you want, but the Russian collusion conspiracy is exactly that. The idea that some Russian Twitter posts or FB memes changed the 2016 election is delusional

 

[essentialsaltes]

They are not strawmen
The idea that some Russian Twitter posts or FB memes changed the 2016 election is delusional

 

[hislegacy]

Only if you are proposing a strawman version of "the" conspiracy theory.

Nope, reality is not a straw man.

You can believe what you want, but the Russian collusion conspiracy is exactly that. The idea that some Russian Twitter posts or FB memes changed the 2016 election is delusional

Absolutely, it is perhaps the most prolific and widely believed in conspiracy in US history.

Why isn’t it on the list? Look at the author of the list

 

[Hans Blaster]

And as I pointed out above, the Mueller report cleared Trump.

If you'd read the Mueller Report, you wouldn't say it that way.

 

[USincognito]

I see that some of our right leaning friends:
A. Either don't know what the phrase conspiracy theory means.
B. Are doing with it, the same as they are doing with "insurrection" and "election interference" - using it inappropriately in an attempt to water down the meaning via equivocation.
C. Can't address the data in the OP and have one pet red herring they think will distract from the right's embrace of conspiracy theories.

 

[iluvatar5150]

As I said: , a 2.5 year investigation costing 40,000,000 - 19 attorney's - 40 FBI Special agents - 2,800 subpoena's - 1,000,000 pages of documentation. Witnesses on two continents questioned.

The stuff about Hunter’s laptop has been going on longer than that.

 

[USincognito]

As I said: , a 2.5 year investigation costing 40,000,000 - 19 attorney's - 40 FBI Special agents - 2,800 subpoena's - 1,000,000 pages of documentation. Witnesses on two continents questioned.

I was asking for a citation on the numbers, specifically about the subpoenas. but as I noted the collusion red herring is just to distract from the results of the poll in the OP.

All based on the Russian Collusion conspiracy theory - and some people still believe it was not a conspiracy theory.

There was no "conspiracy theory". Your continued misuse of that phrase won't make the investigation into one.

Maybe it is in a box in his garage next to the Corvette. oops wrong guy. sorry

Do you guys ever think about this stuff before posting it? I mean I get it. You've been told referencing the 'Vette will totally own the libs, but it's falsehood. The handful of docs in the garage were in a locked storage room inside the garage.

Meanwhile, down in Mar a Lago:

 

[USincognito]

I also find it surprising that pet theories the left promotes didn't find their way onto the list. Examples include:

Hmm. I wonder how many of these are going to be actual conspiracy theories.

1. Russian-collusion hoax, which was promoted by dozens of MSM journalists, DNC operatives, and politicians. There was zero evidence for any of it.

There was no Russian collusion hoax and the investigation to potential coordination between Donald and his campaign was not a conspiracy theory.

2. That the 2016 election was "stolen" by Donald Trump and the Russians. Democrats continue to make this claim. Hillary Clinton maintains the election was a fraud, and that Trump acted illegal to steal it from her.

Not a conspiracy theory. It is well documented that Russia interfered in the 2016 election on behalf of Donald. The biggest effect on public was due to something else - Comey announcing the email investigation.

3. That Donald Trump used the US Postal Service to prevent people from obtaining ballots in the 2020 election (a guy on this forum continues to say this is true)

I'm not even sure what this is a reference to. Clearly it involves De Joy, but I'm not familiar with the specifics of this claim. How were Donald/De Joy supposed to have done that?

4. That the Wuhan Institute of Virology wasn't studying coronaviruses, wasn't engaged in GoF research, had no accidents, that no one there got sick, and anyone who claims any of this is a "right-wing conspiracy theorist"

This sounds like talking points rather than an actual conspiracy theory. The only Wuhan lab conspiracy theory I'm familiar with is the claim that Covid-19 was created there as a bioweapon and released on the world. That is embraced by many more Republicans than Dems.

and people who think men can have babies shouldn't be calling anyone stupid

Save your pet culture war grievances for appropriate threads.

 

[Merrill]

Hmm. I wonder how many of these are going to be actual conspiracy theories.

There was no Russian collusion hoax and the investigation to potential coordination between Donald and his campaign was not a conspiracy theory.

Not a conspiracy theory. It is well documented that Russia interfered in the 2016 election on behalf of Donald. The biggest effect on public was due to something else - Comey announcing the email investigation.

I'm not even sure what this is a reference to. Clearly it involves De Joy, but I'm not familiar with the specifics of this claim. How were Donald/De Joy supposed to have done that?

This sounds like talking points rather than an actual conspiracy theory. The only Wuhan lab conspiracy theory I'm familiar with is the claim that Covid-19 was created there as a bioweapon and released on the world. That is embraced by many more Republicans than Dems.

Save your pet culture war grievances for appropriate threads.

guy complains about Republicans believing in conspiracy theories

then goes on a rant about all the conspiracy theories he himself believes in

beautiful way to illustrate my point for me. Good job

 

[JustOneWay]

guy complains about Republicans believing in conspiracy theories

There was no complaint. There was a poll showing the conspiracies the poll offered are believed more by republicans.

then goes on a rant about all the conspiracy theories he himself believes in

Which conspiracies did he promote? The one not on the list that you keep derailing the thread over?

beautiful way to illustrate my point for me. Good job

Don't hurt your arm patting your back....

 

[USincognito]

guy complains about Republicans believing in conspiracy theories

Who did that? If you're suggesting it's me, you might want to look at the data in the OP and on the first page.

then goes on a rant about all the conspiracy theories he himself believes in

Ah, you're not referring to me because I don't believe in any conspiracy theories. Glad you cleared that up.

beautiful way to illustrate my point for me. Good job

Indulge me. How old is the earth and is evolution supported by the evidence?

 

[Merrill]

There was no complaint. There was a poll showing the conspiracies the poll offered are believed more by republicans.

Which conspiracies did he promote? The one not on the list that you keep derailing the thread over?


Don't hurt your arm patting your back....

The Russia collusion conspiracy theory

Both formal and informal investigations were done that concluded Russia didn't collude with Donald Trump to alter the 2016 election result. People who think otherwise believe in a conspiracy theory. Russian twitter posts didn't steal the election from Hillary Clinton, and to think they did, shows a lack of critical thinking skills.

the poll in question largely included conspiracies that Republicans do believe in, but very few that Democrats believe in

I would remind everyone that the whole vaccines-cause-autism thing started on the left, in publications like the Huffington Post. Here is a good article about that from years back

Huffington Post Still Believes Vaccines Cause Autism

Two days after telling Forbes its medical articles are vetted, HuffPo publishes another piece linking vaccines and autism.

www.forbes.com

 

[Hans Blaster]

The Russia collusion conspiracy theory

You managed to describe two different things (or at least two versions of what gets conflated into the same thing)

Both formal and informal investigations were done that concluded Russia didn't collude with Donald Trump to alter the 2016 election result. People who think otherwise believe in a conspiracy theory.

This one involves a specific cooperation between Trump and Russia, and "alter the result" is vague and nebulous. No specific mechanism is claimed.

Russian twitter posts didn't steal the election from Hillary Clinton, and to think they did, shows a lack of critical thinking skills.

This one has a mechanism (twitter posts) "stealing" election, but makes no mention of Trump's involvement.

These are just two of many things that are often lumped under what you called "The Russia collusion conspiracy theory", some of which are ridiculous and some which actually happened.

 

[Bradskii]

the poll in question largely included conspiracies that Republicans do believe in, but very few that Democrats believe in

Your mission, should you wish to accept it, is to explain why.

 

[RDKirk]

Some folks on this forum like to toss a variation of saying attributed to Alexander Hamilton - "if you believe in nothing, you'll fall for anything". I've been observing over the last 30 years that the opposite tends to be true. This especially seems to be the case when it comes to conspiracy theories. A recent YouGov poll on that subject had some very interesting results.

The only CT embraced by a greater number of Democrat respondents was for a belief that top Republicans were sex-trafficking children. 28% D vs. 17% R. A belief that top Dems are doing to the same was embraced by 14% of Ds, but 42% of Rs. Overall the two most embraced CTs were the JFK assassination and a secret cabal running things.

Left wing conspiracy theories are enveloped in left-wing ideologies, such as Marxism (the elite conspire against us!), CRT (white people conspire against us!) and Radical Feminism (men conspire against us!).

 

[Bradskii]

Left wing conspiracy theories are enveloped in left-wing ideologies, such as Marxism (the elite conspire against us!), CRT (white people conspire against us!) and Radical Feminism (men conspire against us!).

I think we need to slowly back the truck up here. I don't think that Marxism, feminism and discussions on race (whether the point being discussed is valid or not) can be compared to what the OP is talking about. Which are conspiracy theories at the level of thinking that there is a secret cabal running world governments, or that Neil never went walkabout on the Sea of Tranquility.

A discussion on the finer points of Marxism and suggesting that vaccines contain microchips ain't the same thing. One shows at least some grasp of political theory. The other indicates that a grip on reality itself is missing. The question is, why do 14% of Dems and 28% of Republicans think the latter?

 

[USincognito]

Left wing conspiracy theories are enveloped in left-wing ideologies, such as Marxism (the elite conspire against us!), CRT (white people conspire against us!) and Radical Feminism (men conspire against us!).

As Bradskii points out, those aren't really conspiracy theories. They are (possibly) misguided approaches to actual issues, but they're not the same as thinking that vaccines are part of a depopulation program by Bill Gates or that Hollywood and Government elites are sexually abusing and murdering children to harvest adrenochrome and stay young forever.