America is still obsessed with racial segregation

[RDKirk]

Quite right. It can be 'us two against those two' or 'our country against theirs'. And every step in between. And every mixture of people you can possibly imagine.

What I don't get is the argument that says that it's wrong to say that we're all racist. People bristle. 'Hey, some of my best friends...' You have to start with that understanding, and the acceptance that you yourself have those tendencies, and work from there.

What you're really doing with "we're all racists" is just trying to get an emotional response out of people. If young people are socialized early to see themselves as part of a group discounting race, then "we're all racist" becomes illogical and certainly irrelevant.

I remember going to watch my grandkid playing rugby. He mentioned one of the guys in the team with whom he was friendly. He pointed to a group of kids. 'Which one?' I asked. 'The one wearing red socks'. Out of 5 or 6 guys, he was the only black guy. But he differentiated him by his socks. That's great, I thought. He's colour blind in that repect. But...at some point he's going to encounter racism. Do we just let that happen? Or do we prepare him for it? It's a reasonable question to ask.

It's a false notion that to be non-racist means one must be blind to the fact that skin color exists. I can make note of a person's eye color without being an eye color bigot. If someone describes me as an "older black guy with a gray beard and eyeglasses," I'm not going to be any more offended by "black guy" than I would be about "older," "gray beard," or "eyeglasses."

I was watching an interview back in the 90s of some prominent white writer who had adopted a black daughter. The white interviewer asked him if he'd ever used "the N-word" in her presence, and he assured her that he had. The interviewer was shocked. The man had to explain, how was he going to teach her how to respond without allowing her to hear the word in a context not intended to harm her?

 

[rturner76]

It can't. Accepting any part of CRT first requires accepting critical theory, and that requires throwing out everything you know about any other philosophy and any other epistemology...and they tell you that. Accepting CRT in any respect is like believing Flat Earth theory...you first have to discard everything else.

Interesting.....I think that accepting that the United States law and justice system was racist isn't akin to flat Earth which can be easily proven with satellite technology/ I know that Flat Earth people disregard all modern technology but I think CRT is more philosophical that factual though it is based on certain irrefutable historical facts like "White is Right" all the way up to the 80's everywhere and that rule is still enforced in certain rural communities in the deep south

 

[RDKirk]

Being color blind can also lead to being culture blind. The United States, although a couple of hundred years old, is a country of immigrants. So all US citizens have a root in another country. Being a country of immigrants we all have another country's culture in our blood and history.

Well, for black descendants of slavery, that motherland culture was for all practical purposes stripped from us. We are unique in the respect that we didn't have a motherland culture to rely upon as a group for two or three generations as we acclimated at our own pace to the dominant Anglo culture of America.

 

[rturner76]

So that is what makes them racist?
Interesting, as people flock from all over the world to the white mans' civilizations they built over time. Many even come from post colonial areas that once gaining their independence the new life no longer suited these migrants, wanting what they had lost and abandoned their heritage and culture for white man's ways and toys.

That is the very thing that will keep the "white man" in power even if they are in the minority example apartied in South Africa. A fraction of the population in control of the majority population. It will be that way in the USA. People will covet the white man's power and "toys" even though their culture rejects materialism. The USA will always be run by white men.

 

[Bradskii]

What you're really doing with "we're all racists" is just trying to get an emotional response out of people.

Nonsense. Just the opposite. It's simply a fact about ourselves that needs to be explained and accepted so that we are aware of it and can allow for it in certain circumstances. I'm emphasising race because that's the topic. But you can base it on your neighbourhood, your religion, the team you support, your school...any example where there's an us and them.

If young people are socialized early to see themselves as part of a group discounting race, then "we're all racist" becomes illogical and certainly irrelevant.

As I said about my grandson, you could say that if it's not a problem at the moment then why not just ignore it. I would prefer that it's explained to him why we have those tendencies, where they came from and why they are almost always invalid these days (these days being in evolutionary terms).

 

[timothyu]

If young people are socialized early to see themselves as part of a group discounting race, then "we're all racist" becomes illogical and certainly irrelevant.

The good ol' days of acting civilized or uncivilized based on character.

 

[timothyu]

The USA will always be run by white men.

It has always depended on who built the better civilization

 

[RDKirk]

Nonsense. Just the opposite. It's simply a fact about ourselves that needs to be explained and accepted so that we are aware of it and can allow for it in certain circumstances. I'm emphasising race because that's the topic. But you can base it on your neighbourhood, your religion, the team you support, your school...any example where there's an us and them.

Now you're trying to conflate all forms of bigotry into "racism." But racism is just one form of bigotry, and when teaching about bigotry race need not be the "go-to" if children have been socialized to ignore race in the understanding of "our group."

As I said about my grandson, you could say that if it's not a problem at the moment then why not just ignore it. I would prefer that it's explained to him why we have those tendencies, where they came from and why they are almost always invalid these days (these days being in evolutionary terms).

Where in there is a need to say, "We're all racists?"

 

[Tuur]

Um....you may not realize this, but I'm from Boston.

And I grew up here, in the 1970s.

Yeah, it was a problem.

-- A2SG, compare that to someone on Mayor Wu's staff adding people to an email list.....

Then you may have heard the same argument put forth. I did in the Deep South in the 1960s. The sticking point with me then was that since in Christ we are all God's children, how can we justify Segregation? It's still a sticking point with me now.

Basically, by arguing it was private, it sidesteps the issue of racial bias. But the same issue remains: If someone has a private party and choses to exclude some based on race, it may be legal, but it's still bigoted.

 

[Bradskii]

Now you're trying to conflate all forms of bigotry into "racism." But racism is just one form of bigotry, and when teaching about bigotry race need not be the "go-to" if children have been socialized to ignore race in the understanding of "our group."

No, it's the other way around. I've said 'we're all racists' because the topic is racism. But the emphasis must be on the fact that we're all genetically inclined to be wary of out groups. It's out groups we should concentrate on and then include racism into that discussion if it's valid. So yes, I agree. Racism is just one form of bigotry.

Where in there is a need to say, "We're all racists?"

If we're talking about racism it's a reasonable comment. Because we all are to some extent. If we're talking about other forms of bigotry then you talk about that. If it was religion than you could say 'We're all biased against other religions'. We're all religionists? A bit clumsy, but that's a valid comment if the talk is about religions. And it's because 'they' are not in 'our' group.

 

[Bradskii]

If someone has a private party and choses to exclude some based on race, it may be legal, but it's still bigoted.

There's a difference between 'I don't want any white people coming to my party' And 'This is a social meeting for the group we formed to discuss shared experiences as non white elected members.'

If I had received an invite I'd respond by suggesting that I'd received it in error. Not 'How come I'm not invited!

 

[Tuur]

Being color blind can also lead to being culture blind. The United States, although a couple of hundred years old, is a country of immigrants. So all US citizens have a root in another country. Being a country of immigrants we all have another country's culture in our blood and history.

In our blood? Ah, no. Not even close. This really came to light when ours were in Middle School and faced the dreaded "What is your culture?" essay. This was in conjunction with genealogy, and I think the point was to help children to connect to their roots. The problem the first time we ran into this is that we didn't even know how long we'd been in the US. Some of my wife's ancestors were already here, and there's a possibility that some of mine were as well. Our surnames didn't matter one whit, as what ancestors we knew of hailed from all sorts of places. The only culture we had was the one we grew up in, rural farming, and even that was radically different from my great-grandfathers day.

It turned out that all of our ancestors had been in what's now the US before there even was a US. Whatever culture they brought with them was long since forgotten. The culture we have now is an amalgam from different influences, including changes in technology and industry. Even the order of worship is different than it was in the 19th or even early 20th centuries. Culture changes, perhaps more rapidly than we realize.

 

[Bradskii]

In our blood? Ah, no. Not even close. This really came to light when ours were in Middle School and faced the dreaded "What is your culture?" essay... The only culture we had was the one we grew up in, rural farming, and even that was radically different from my great-grandfathers day.

Then I guess they wrote about that.

I remember my grandson had something similar to write. My wife and I are Welsh originally, so Celtic. As, obviously, is our daughter. And he was amazed to be told that he was half Celtic. It was something exotic as far as he was concerned. My son-in-law was a bit put out as he then wasn't the slightest bit interested in his background.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Yes. It's pretty poor journalism all around. Dig in for some details and it's not a story. Word it so that it's some sort of reverse KKKK meeting and it's click bait. I don't know if you've not noticed but journalism these days consists of reading somebody elese's story and repeating it. Sometimes you're lucky enough to get an attribute ('as reported in the Daily Telegraph') butit will be practically verbatim. Go check and see for yourself.

Do you think therefore that current event news articles should stop being posted to this forum?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Madam, I find that characterisation of myself as both inaccurate and circular.

Sorry I didn't know that you alone consisted of white males around the world. Last time I checked I was one too, but apparently I was mistaken.

 

[Bradskii]

Do you think therefore that current event news articles should stop being posted to this forum?

No. I think it's instructive to see how and why people get outraged by bad journalism and biased reporting. Helps me avoid it myself.

 

[Ceallaigh]

No. I think it's instructive to see how and why people get outraged by bad journalism and biased reporting. Helps me avoid it myself.

So are you just here to complain about the existence of news stories being posted?

 

[Bradskii]

So are you just here to complain about the existence of news stories being posted?

Hey, back the truck up a little here, my fiend. I haven't complained about the news article being posted. I have been very specific about why I am involved in this discussion and that's been perfectly clear from what I have been saying. I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Hey, back the truck up a little here, my fiend. I haven't complained about the news article being posted. I have been very specific about why I am involved in this discussion and that's been perfectly clear from what I have been saying. I hope that clears up any misunderstanding.

I've just read complaints about the existence of the article from you, and you added to that that all journalism is bad.

 

[Bradskii]

I've just read complaints about the existence of the article from you, and you added to that that all journalism is bad.

Complaints about the way the article was written and how it prompts people to feelings of outrage. And poor journalism in general. Who on earth said all journalism is bad?

Are you actually reading what I'm writing?