the People who say "God told me, God spoke to me" extra biblical revelation

[ARBITER01]

Well, it's right there in scripture. Paul's words are as clear as day. Here they are again....

"The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children."

Every bible version says the same.

That's not true,....

LEB Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself confirms to our spirit that we are children of God,

Murdock Rom 8:16 And this Spirit testifieth to our spirit, that we are the sons of God.

The word "with" is not even in the Greek in that sentence, it's an add-on word, which can create a false doctrinal stance. Again, this position of yours is of your making.

 

[swordsman1]

That's not true,....

LEB Rom 8:16 The Spirit himself confirms to our spirit that we are children of God,

Murdock Rom 8:16 And this Spirit testifieth to our spirit, that we are the sons of God.

Wow. A couple of obscure versions out of how many?

KJ21 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit that we are the children of God;
ASV The Spirit himself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are children of God:
AMP The Spirit Himself testifies and confirms together with our spirit [assuring us] that we [believers] are children of God.
AMPC The Spirit Himself [thus] testifies together with our own spirit, [assuring us] that we are children of God.
BRG The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
CSB The Spirit himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God’s children,
CEB The same Spirit agrees with our spirit, that we are God’s children.
CJB The Spirit himself bears witness with our own spirits that we are children of God;
CEV God's Spirit makes us sure that we are his children.
DARBY The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit, that we are children of God.
DLNT The Spirit Himself bears-witness-with our spirit that we are children of God!
EASY God's Spirit himself causes us to know that we are God's children. God's Spirit and our own spirits agree that this is true.
EHV The Spirit himself joins our spirit in testifying that we are God’s children.
ESV The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
ESVUK The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
EXB And the Spirit himself ·joins with [or testifies to] our spirits to say we are God’s children.
GNV The same Spirit beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.
GW The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
HCSB The Spirit Himself testifies together with our spirit that we are God’s children,
ICB And the Spirit himself joins with our spirits to say that we are God’s children.
ISV The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
KJV The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
AKJV The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:
LSB The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
MEV The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirits that we are the children of God,
MOUNCE The Spirit himself bears witness with · our spirit that we are children of God,
NOG The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
NABRE The Spirit itself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
NASB The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
NASB1995 The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God,
NCB The Spirit himself bears witness with our Spirit that we are children of God.
NCV And the Spirit himself joins with our spirits to say we are God’s children.
NIRV The Spirit himself joins with our spirits. Together they tell us that we are God’s children.
NIV The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
NIVUK The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children.
NKJV The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
NLT For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God’s children.
NMB The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are the children of God.
NRSVA it is that very Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
NRSVACE it is that very Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
NRSVCE it is that very Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
NRSVUE it is that very Spirit bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
OJB The Ruach Hakodesh himself bears eidus (witness) with our [regenerate, Yn 3:6] ruach that we are bnei HaElohim.
RGT The same Spirit bears witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God.
RSV it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
RSVCE it is the Spirit himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God,
TLV The Ruach Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God.
WEB The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God;
WE So we say, `Father! Father!' The Spirit himself also, along with our own spirits, tells us that we are God's children.
YLT The Spirit himself doth testify with our spirit, that we are children of God;

The word "with" is not even in the Greek in that sentence, it's an add-on word, which can create a false doctrinal stance. Again, this position of yours is of your making.

Yep. I already addressed that in post #81.

 

[Carl Emerson]

No, that is a reference to the spoken word of God. Not Jesus, "the Word".

Jesus is the Logos of God i.e. the Word of God. all things were created through Him.

 

[swordsman1]

Jesus is the Logos of God i.e. the Word of God. all things were created through Him.

But he is not the "word of God" (lower case w) where it refers to the written (or spoken) word of God as it does in dozens of verses including 2 Peter 3:5 and 1 John 2.

 

[ARBITER01]

Wow. A couple of obscure versions out of how many?

The point was made though, not everyone was onboard with your added word, and what you had to say about it was false.

Yep. I already addressed that in post #81.

I seen that, but I just found a couple translations that don't follow the others that you said everyone did, they don't add the word "with" in there. In fact, they add another word "to" which makes much more sense in light of how revelation is received from GOD to our spirit.

But anyways, this is your idea on how The Holy Spirit operates in us, and find no common ground with you on your ideas. We will obviously just agree to disagree like other times.

 

[Carl Emerson]

I think the reason why this conversation goes round and round is that Scripture is to be spiritually discerned not technically dissected and the subject is denying the Spirit's roll in giving us understanding.

So denying the function of our comforter and teacher and insisting on rational analysis of text is folly. The Pharisees did this and didn't recognise Him when He came.

All we are left with is clever human interpretation.

The third person of the Godhead indwelling all true believers leads them into all truth by way of revelation, both in understanding the scripture and in life.

Pointing to the flakes who in error have presumed to hear the voice of God, does not negate the voice of our friend and saviour within, among those who truely walk with Him.

'He that has ears to hear' applies and sadly not all on CF do.

 

[Jamdoc]

Which is not "the Word of God"

It doesn't say Christ is the "Word of God". Like John 1:1 is simply says "the Word".

now that's just Semantics. John has this doctrine consistent through his gospel, epistles, and revelation that Jesus is the Word of God become flesh. Now he's not meaning a printed book turns into a man. It's more like, the idea he's conveying is that what Jesus says has the same authority as scripture, and that all through scripture is the promises of Messiah, "God with us", and he's saying that Jesus is the fulfillment of that, so it is the scriptures coming to life in Him.

 

[swordsman1]

The point was made though, not everyone was onboard with your added word, and what you had to say about it was false.

Not my added word. The word appears in practically every bible version. Are they all wrong?

I seen that, but I just found a couple translations that don't follow the others that you said everyone did, they don't add the word "with" in there. In fact, they add another word "to" which makes much more sense in light of how revelation is received from GOD to our spirit.

The overwhelming consensus of other versions as well as the Greek lexicons disagree with those 2 obscure translation you found. So who do you think has the correct version?

But anyways, this is your idea on how The Holy Spirit operates in us, and find no common ground with you on your ideas. We will obviously just agree to disagree like other times.

Yep. You disagree, not just with me, but with Paul as well.

 

[Jamdoc]

I think the reason why this conversation goes round and round is that Scripture is to be spiritually discerned not technically dissected and the subject is denying the Spirit's roll in giving us understanding.

So denying the function of our comforter and teacher and insisting on rational analysis of text is folly. The Pharisees did this and didn't recognise Him when He came.

All we are left with is clever human interpretation.

The third person of the Godhead indwelling all true believers leads them into all truth by way of revelation, both in understanding the scripture and in life.

Pointing to the flakes who in error have presumed to hear the voice of God, does not negate the voice of our friend and saviour within among those who truely walk with Him.

'He that has ears to hear' applies and sadly not all on CF do.

Nobody's saying that the Holy Spirit doesn't interprets scripture. In fact that's the primary thing I'm saying the Holy Spirit does. What I am saying isn't the same, is people saying extrabiblical "prophecies", virtually all of which fail to come true, because they're not from God.

That's what we're talking about.
I'm not denying that God guides our paths and does things in our lives. What I'm denying is people who claim to have the gift of Prophecy and making claims of prophecy they claim is from God/the Holy Spirit/Jesus, and they fail to come to pass. That marks them as a false prophet, and that they're speaking out of their own heart, not from God.

 

[swordsman1]

I think the reason why this conversation goes round and round is that Scripture is to be spiritually discerned not technically dissected and the subject is denying the Spirit's roll in giving us understanding.

So denying the function of our comforter and teacher and insisting on rational analysis of text is folly. The Pharisees did this and didn't recognise Him when He came.

All we are left with is clever human interpretation.

The third person of the Godhead indwelling all true believers leads them into all truth by way of revelation, both in understanding the scripture and in life.

Pointing to the flakes who in error have presumed to hear the voice of God, does not negate the voice of our friend and saviour within, among those who truely walk with Him.

'He that has ears to hear' applies and sadly not all on CF do.

It's called rightly handling the word of truth. ie carefully reading what the text actually says rather than putting your own spin on it - as we have seen so often in this thread.

 

[Carl Emerson]

The word 'with' is not in the original text and the choice of the word 'with' by translaters does not mean 'seperate from'.

 

[ARBITER01]

I think the reason why this conversation goes round and round is that Scripture is to be spiritually discerned not technically dissected and the subject is denying the Spirit's roll in giving us understanding.

So denying the function of our comforter and teacher and insisting on rational analysis of text is folly. The Pharisees did this and didn't recognise Him when He came.

All we are left with is clever human interpretation.

The third person of the Godhead indwelling all true believers leads them into all truth by way of revelation, both in understanding the scripture and in life.

Pointing to the flakes who in error have presumed to hear the voice of God, does not negate the voice of our friend and saviour within, among those who truely walk with Him.

'He that has ears to hear' applies and sadly not all on CF do.

This will always be a common occurrence in Christianity. Sad but true.

The choice between the tree of life and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is still there after we are born again. Many people choose to become a walking library instead of a walking revival.

 

[swordsman1]

now that's just Semantics. John has this doctrine consistent through his gospel, epistles, and revelation that Jesus is the Word of God become flesh. Now he's not meaning a printed book turns into a man. It's more like, the idea he's conveying is that what Jesus says has the same authority as scripture, and that all through scripture is the promises of Messiah, "God with us", and he's saying that Jesus is the fulfillment of that, so it is the scriptures coming to life in Him.

But Jesus is not the written (or spoken) "word of God" (lower case w) that appears in dozens of verses - which was my original point.

 

[Carl Emerson]

It's called rightly handling the word of truth. ie carefully reading what the text actually says rather than putting your own spin on it - as we have seen so often in this thread.

Exactly what I see you do...

But he is not the "word of God" (lower case w) where it refers to the written (or spoken) word of God as it does in dozens of verses including 2 Peter 3:5 and 1 John 2.

Are you suggesting 2 Peter 3:5 refers to Scripture ???

 

[ARBITER01]

Yep. You disagree, not just with me, but with Paul as well.

No,..... I disagree with you because you presented no biblical example of your teaching you stand by.

Just quoting Paul over in Romans without providing some sort of biblical example of The Holy Spirit actually operating like you say that He does doesn't prove your made up teaching, it just means you don't have any example to back up your claim.

Why wouldn't I disagree with you, you're wrong. Period.

 

[swordsman1]

No,..... I disagree with you because you presented no biblical example of your teaching you stand by.

Just quoting Paul over in Romans without providing some sort of biblical example of The Holy Spirit actually operating like you say that He does doesn't prove your made up teaching, it just means you don't have any example to back up your claim.

Why wouldn't I disagree with you, you're wrong. Period.

As I already said, it is not my teaching it is Paul's. His words are as clear as day. The Greek lexicons and, apart from a couple of obscure outliers, all bible translations agree.

If you think they are all wrong you need to write to them to inform them of their mistake. When a majority of them change their wording to your interpretation then we can take it seriously. Until then it can be safely consigned to the theological scrap heap.

 

[Carl Emerson]

But he is not the "word of God" (lower case w) where it refers to the written (or spoken) word of God as it does in dozens of verses including 2 Peter 3:5 and 1 John 2.

Do you think the Logos is not the Spoken Word of God ???

 

[ARBITER01]

As I already said, it is not my teaching it is Paul's. His words are as clear as day. The Greek lexicons and, apart from a couple of obscure outliers, all bible translations agree.

If you think they are all wrong you need to write to them to inform them of their mistake. When a majority of them change their wording to your interpretation then we can take it seriously. Until then it can be safely consigned to the theological scrap heap.

Lol,.... this is funny.

You made the claim, now back up your claim with proof or retract it. Provide to us an example of The Holy Spirit operating like you are teaching that scripture says He does, and maybe I'll consider it. Otherwise you're talking out your rear end.

In other words, all you have is just a claim,.... which can safely be consigned to the theological sCRAP pile if you can't prove it is true.

 

[Carl Emerson]

According to Rom 8:16 it happens with all of us. Or was Paul lying?

Paul didn't say 'with' that was added by some translators.

 

[Jamdoc]

But Jesus is not the written (or spoken) "word of God" (lower case w) that appears in dozens of verses - which was my original point.

Trying to find the words in how to explain it. But John also in John chapter 1 terms it as Jesus is the spoken word of God, that God spoke and by that speaking everything was created, and by HIM everything was created. Paul also points that Jesus the person in the Trinity is the agent of creation. Which in Genesis 1, is God speaking is the agent of creation.

So in some way, Jesus is the spoken word of God.