Israel-Hamas Thread II

[rjs330]

History tells us that using military force against terrorist groups rarely succeeds.

But it does happen. I think in this case the odds are very good that it will. The circumstances are ripe for it.

 

[Pommer]

The Bible does not tell these nations what to do. What it has done is tell you what they are GOING to do. Perhaps if they actually read the Bible and trusted it, they wouldn't make those mistakes. But they aren't and they won't. Therefore what scripture has predicted to come true, most certainly will.

Uh huh

 

[JosephZ]

But it does happen.

7% of the time.

I think in this case the odds are very good that it will. The circumstances are ripe for it

The odds are clearly not in Israel's favor.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

How many modern military minds do you think consult their Bibles before making a move in this region?

Did Babylonia, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome consult with prophet Daniel, to whom God revealed the future?

God from the beginning reveals through His prophets what He will do. And many of the prophecies like Ezekiel 38, Armageddon and others did not happen yet. And btw, it will be the Lord who will gather the nations against Israel in the battle of Armageddon. Don't mock the prophecies.

 

[rjs330]

After 52 days of war, Israel has killed less than 2,000 of the 30,000+ Hamas terrorists at the cost of 15,000 Palestinian lives. Despite one of the most intense bombardments in history, Hamas remains strong and is very much in control of what takes place in Gaza.

You don't know this. You also don't know how many civilians were also supporters of Hamas. No Hamas has not been defeated yet. It's only been two months. Did you somehow believe that it could be? Especially with them running around in their tunnels etc?

 

[rjs330]

Source?



Such is the nature of fighitng irregular military forces....they can appear any where, any time. Until Israel takes control of every buidling, street and tunnel, this will continue. I'm not sure that is even possible.

What I don't know why Israel hasn't begin systematically destroying the tunnels yet. Maybe they are and we just don't know it yet. But I've heard nothing about it. Man that would be a priority for me. Send in the demolition experts and blow them up so Hamas can't move any troops or supplies through them.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Account after account of how Hamas used rape as a weapon of war.

"They cut limbs and genitals, they raped, they abused corpses. There were sadistic sexual acts."

"We saw many women with bloody underwear, with broken bones, broken legs, broken pelvises"

"One video showed a woman, her hands zip-tied behind her back, with blood on the crotch of her pants."

"An Israeli reserve combat paramedic told The Post that he found the bodies of teenage girls with signs of sexual assault."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/11/25/israel-hamas-rape-sexual-violence/

 

[rjs330]

Israel’s military estimates that during the assault on Gaza it has killed between 1,000 and 2,000 Hamas fighters out of a military force it believes is about 30,000 strong.

IDF messaging suggests Gaza truce unlikely to last much beyond Tuesday

Many expect pause to be extended if more hostages are released, but experts predict military campaign could run into next year

www.theguardian.com

I'm having a very difficult time sourcing those figures. The claim is IDF has estimated those Hamas deaths but there is no source listed for that.

 

[Robban]

7% of the time.


The odds are clearly not in Israel's favor.

7/10 shows how unwise and dangerous it is to underestimate
the enemy.
IDF were totally unprepared, an investigation is to be started,
some female IDF spotters had overheard Hamas talking of a raid,
and even observed them doing manouvers.


The IDF leadership brushed it off as female hystery.

 

[durangodawood]

7/10 shows how unwise and dangerous it is to underestimate
the enemy.
IDF were totally unprepared, an investigation is to be started,
some female IDF spotters had overheard Hamas talking of a raid,
and even observed them doing manouvers.


The IDF leadership brushed it off as female hystery.

IDF was also preoccupied with protecting settler land grabs in the West Bank.

 

[Pommer]

Did Babylonia, Medo-Persia, Greece and Rome consult with prophet Daniel, to whom God revealed the future?

God from the beginning reveals through His prophets what He will do. And many of the prophecies like Ezekiel 38, Armageddon and others did not happen yet. And btw, it will be the Lord who will gather the nations against Israel in the battle of Armageddon. Don't mock the prophecies.

The prophesies are wrong until they are right?
Like trial and error?
Endless silliness until “all is revealed”?
Good luck.

 

[wing2000]

What I don't know why Israel hasn't begin systematically destroying the tunnels yet. Maybe they are and we just don't know it yet. But I've heard nothing about it. Man that would be a priority for me. Send in the demolition experts and blow them up so Hamas can't move any troops or supplies through them.

The IDF has engineering units destroying tunnels as they go...or so I have read during the early days. It may take months...or longer.

 

[Bradskii]

The prophesies are wrong until they are right?

I think it's more along the lines of 'The prophesies are right - they just haven't been fulfilled yet'.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

The prophesies are wrong until they are right?
Like trial and error?
Endless silliness until “all is revealed”?
Good luck.

All the prophecies prophecising about Messiah's first coming, the cross and ressuraction have been fulfilled. There are prophecies about His second coming that are yet to be fulfilled. I do not know what's hard to understand about that.

Jesus is coming back for His people. The mercy of God today is that He does not judge any one of us according to our sin, but one day that will come to an end. When Jesus comes, He will bring the judgement with Him. Why? Because God is just and all the sin must be punished. And punishment for sin is God's wrath and eternall hell. But God in His mercy chose not to pour His wrath yet, instead He sent His Son, who was crucified, burried and rose on the third day, that whoever believes in Him, should not perrish. But who believes not onto Him, is condemned already. It is Christ alone who saves, as He is the only one without sin, and He is the only one who reconciles us to God, and He is the only one who atones for our sin, for He is the perfect sacrifice. Jesus Christ is the only Saviour, He is the only one that can save you. Repent and be saved.

 

[rjs330]

7% of the time.


The odds are clearly not in Israel's favor.

I disagree. Especially if people quit pressuring them to stop. If they do give in there's a 100% chance Hamas won't be defeated.

The odds are good. Hamas is for the most part confined to Gaza and Palestine. It's not a world wide organization. If I were Israel I'd be working my tail off to figure out how the take out their leadership in Qatar.

 

[rjs330]

The IDF has engineering units destroying tunnels as they go...or so I have read during the early days. It may take months...or longer.

Good I just hadn't seen anyyhing in this.

 

[o_mlly]

All regret the loss of innocent lives in war. Those in this thread who express extraordinary regret for the loss of Palestinian lives and not Israeli lives ought to keep in mind which side is waging the just war. It makes a difference.

Palestinians who do not actively support Israel's legitimate effort to prosecute and punish the Palestinian criminals in Gaza lose some of their presumed cloak of innocence. Not only is the legitimate governing entity in Gaza -- Hamas -- conducting an unjust war but is doing so criminally. The citizens of Gaza have a moral obligation to delegitimatize Hamas, name Hamas as a criminal organization, and bring them to justice.

All Israelis, both soldiers and citizens, retain their presumed innocence unless acts that violate the legitimate methods of prosecuting a just war are demonstrated and proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Nazi Hamas announced that Shiri Bibas and her two kids are dead.

The Bibas family, including 10-months-old Kfir, 4-year-old Ariel and their mother Shiri were abducted by Hamas on October 7.

Hamas must be held accountable.
Hamas must release all hostages immediately.

 

[wing2000]

Palestinians who do not actively support Israel's legitimate effort to prosecute and punish the Palestinian criminals in Gaza lose some of their presumed cloak of innocence. Not only is the legitimate governing entity in Gaza -- Hamas -- conducting an unjust war but is doing so criminally. The citizens of Gaza have a moral obligation to delegitimatize Hamas, name Hamas as a criminal organization, and bring them to justice.

...that's an easy declaration for those of us living comfortably in stable , democratic countries where we regularly have a say in who governs us. The fact is, none of us can even begin appreciate what it's like to live under a terrorist regime that governs by fear, control and manipulation. What do you expect the "citizens of Gaza" to do? Rise up and throw rocks at Hamas military units?

 

[Vanellus]

Israel is the occupying power and so bears responsibilities to the occupied.
Occupation and international humanitarian law: questions and answers

More than 50 Palestinian children have been killed in the West Bank since October 7 (an 8 year old and a 14 year old today)

• To the fullest extent of the means available to it, the occupying power must ensure sufficient hygiene and public health standards, as well as the provision of food and medical care to the population under occupation.
• Collective or individual forcible transfers of population from and within the occupied territory are prohibited.
• Transfers of the civilian population of the occupying power into the occupied territory, regardless whether forcible or voluntary, are prohibited.
• Collective punishment is prohibited.
• The destruction or seizure of enemy property is prohibited, unless absolutely required by military necessity during the conduct of hostilities.
• Cultural property must be respected.
• People accused of criminal offences shall be provided with proceedings respecting internationally recognized judicial guarantees (for example, they must be informed of the reason for their arrest, charg ed with a specific offence and given a fair trial as quickly as possible).
• Personnel of the International Red Cross/Red Crescent Movement must be allowed to carry out their humanitarian activities. The ICRC, in particular, must be given access to all protected persons, wherever they are, whether or not they are deprived of their liberty.