Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Desk trauma]

How many modern military minds do you think consult their Bibles before making a move in this region?

Too many.

 

[Desk trauma]

The war may have started on October 7th but it hasn't reached even to 10% of its intensity

Got some kind of inside line on Israeli military plans?

 

[Valletta]

Clearly intense ariel bombing, combined with cutting off resources needed for civilians to survive is not a tenable strategy going forward.

The United States has warned Israel that it must fight more surgically and avoid further mass displacement of Palestinians in its war against Hamas to avoid a humanitarian crisis that overwhelms the world’s ability to respond, according to senior Biden administration officials.

The White House has told Israel that replicating the scale of its bombardment in northern Gaza as it makes an expected push into southern Gaza once the recent pause in fighting ends would produce a crisis beyond the capacity of any humanitarian support network, the officials said on Monday night. The United Nations has said the fighting has already displaced most of Gaza’s population of 2.2 million.
.....
Among other things, American officials have told the Israelis that any coming military operations should not hamper the flow of power and water or impede the work of humanitarian sites such as hospitals and U.N.-supported shelters in south and central Gaza.

The Israeli government was receptive to the requests, one official said.

Hamas executes three Palestinians accused of spying for Israel, mob celebrates: report

A mob of Palestinians abused their dead bodies and hung them on an electric pole.

humanevents.com

Civilian supporters of Hamas stayed in the north. The savagery of the jihadists in Gaza, whether "civilians" or not, must be ended once and for all.

 

[rjs330]

History tells us that true and lasting peace requires justice, patience, compromise and concession and can only be built on mutual respect. It is however hard to hear the arguments amidst the roar of bombs, and the cries o the mutilated.

Actually history tells us that beating your opponent into submission creates the peace. Maintaining the peace is what's important. What you do with that peace afterward is what's important. As long as the enemy thinks they have a chance to win it stop you they will keep fighting. Once they've lost the will to fight you win and leave is secured. What you do with that then is key. It's one reason Rome was so successful for such a long time. It's also why the allies after WWII were successful. They beat the Japanese and Germans into submission. Then they went in about building the peace and getting them back on track to rebuild. Hamas and Palestine needs to be crushed into submission. Then the real work begins. Can Israel and Palestine build a relationship of compromise and mutual respect? Can they give concessions to each other and agree to accept the others right to exist. Is Israel willing to spend money to help them rebuild? Are they open to trade? Are the Palestinians open to compromise and recognize Israels right to exist and live lives free of fear of constant bombardment and attacks? Are they willing to set up a civilian government that works through diplomacy instead of fear and missiles?

I don't know but I sure hope there is a plan.

Peace with possible enemies is often maintained by a respect of mutually assured destruction or the threat of destruction. That's why NATO exists. Getting countries together for the mutual threat against someone who may wish to attack them. So Israel needs to do what's necessary to secure the peace. Then they need to do what's necessary to maintain it.

 

[rjs330]

The war may have started on October 7th but it hasn't reached even to 10% of its intensity as the northern border hasn't yet been dealth with. Hezbollah is way stronger than Hamas

These groups only respect strength. If Israel wrecks Hamas and shows Hezbollah what will happen to them if they try anything that will maintain peace and hold Hezbollah at bay. The moment they believe Israel is weak they will pounce. I hope Israel doesn't start anything hing with them. I don't think they will. But Hezbollah should be learning some hing from this. Don't mess with Israel. Leave them be. Hate em all you wantz but leave them alone.

 

[rjs330]

One of the Hamas targets on Oct 7 was the Re'im military base

Battle of Re'im - Wikipedia

References included
How the Hamas attack on Israel unfolded

Hamas invasion death toll rises to 800 as Israel prepares for far more dangerous threat from north | World Israel News

Of course they did. They need to get to the military and take them out before they attacked innocent civilians and babies with the help of Palestinian people.

 

[rjs330]

A very short but interesting video that asks some difficult questions (especially of the media).

Yeah far to many are supporting this barbarism by calling for an end to the fight against it. And attacking Jews. anti-Semetic crime is in the rise and should tells us who the real criminals are. And the fact that is primarily leftists doing it should say something to us.

 

[rjs330]

How many modern military minds do you think consult their Bibles before making a move in this region?
And why the Bible, why not Harry Potter?

The Bible does not tell these nations what to do. What it has done is tell you what they are GOING to do. Perhaps if they actually read the Bible and trusted it, they wouldn't make those mistakes. But they aren't and they won't. Therefore what scripture has predicted to come true, most certainly will.

 

[rjs330]

Clearly intense ariel bombing, combined with cutting off resources needed for civilians to survive is not a tenable strategy going forward.

The United States has warned Israel that it must fight more surgically and avoid further mass displacement of Palestinians in its war against Hamas to avoid a humanitarian crisis that overwhelms the world’s ability to respond, according to senior Biden administration officials.

The White House has told Israel that replicating the scale of its bombardment in northern Gaza as it makes an expected push into southern Gaza once the recent pause in fighting ends would produce a crisis beyond the capacity of any humanitarian support network, the officials said on Monday night. The United Nations has said the fighting has already displaced most of Gaza’s population of 2.2 million.
.....
Among other things, American officials have told the Israelis that any coming military operations should not hamper the flow of power and water or impede the work of humanitarian sites such as hospitals and U.N.-supported shelters in south and central Gaza.

The Israeli government was receptive to the requests, one official said.

U.S. Has Warned Israel to Fight More Surgically in Gaza, Officials Say (Published 2023)

American officials have told the Israelis that a major bombardment risks sparking a humanitarian crisis that overwhelms the world’s capacity to respond.

www.nytimes.com

I believe if Hamas is squeezed enough into an area fewer bombs will be necessary as well. Israel's goal is to subdue and exterminate Hamas. And they need to see that if they create such a crisis it will actually hinder their goal as there will be too many other people who are not Palestinian terrorist supporters in the region trying to help.

 

[wing2000]

The Gazans were told to get out. They were warned. Many tried and were prevented by Hamas from getting out. That's on Hamas. Not Israel. But I also heard some Palestinians say they were refusing to get out. Well that's on them. They took the chance and lost.

They were told to get out...but given no safe passage or for that matter, a destination. They were told to go south but the south was hit as well, though not as intensely.

Actually history tells us that beating your opponent into submission creates the peace.

Is that your take away from WW1?

 

[JosephZ]

Actually history tells us that beating your opponent into submission creates the peace.

History tells us that using military force against terrorist groups rarely succeeds.

 

[wing2000]

Hamas executes three Palestinians accused of spying for Israel, mob celebrates: report

A mob of Palestinians abused their dead bodies and hung them on an electric pole.

humanevents.com

Civilian supporters of Hamas stayed in the north. The savagery of the jihadists in Gaza, whether "civilians" or not, must be ended once and for all.

Your opinion is noted. Of course. you have no way of knowing that only "Civilian supporters of Hamas" stayed in the north. Some folks simply didn't have a choice due to a variety reasons that I need no explain here. ...

 

[JosephZ]

They captured places, they are pushing Hamas. They are finding locations where Hamas was storing weapons. I think they are winning.

After 52 days of war, Israel has killed less than 2,000 of the 30,000+ Hamas terrorists at the cost of 15,000 Palestinian lives. Despite one of the most intense bombardments in history, Hamas remains strong and is very much in control of what takes place in Gaza.

Several Israeli media outlets reported on the appearance of fighters from the Martyr Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of the Hamas movement, in the areas of the northern Gaza Strip that witnessed the heaviest hostilities and Israeli ground incursions, stressing that the movement succeeded in demonstrating its ability to send its members to northern Gaza “despite The presence of the Israeli army nearby.

For its part, the Israeli newspaper "Israel Hayom" addressed the events, stressing that the Hamas movement is "far from collapsing" and calling for the continuation of Israeli military operations against the Gaza Strip with the aim of "breaking the movement." It also claimed that achieving this goal is important "in order to achieve an Israeli victory in The northern front as well,” referring to the confrontation with the Lebanese Hezbollah.

The newspaper's military affairs correspondent, Lilach Shoval, said that contrary to the claims of the Israeli "army" in recent days, "Hamas still has strong control over the land," noting that this control is in various regions of the Gaza Strip, and not just in its south. Shoval indicated that the consequences of the weak action of the occupation “army” against the Hamas movement “will be regional,” noting that after about 50 days of fighting, the Israeli “army” repeatedly repeats the message that “Hamas’ leadership and control in the northern Gaza Strip has been damaged.” severely, and that most of its brigades in this region disintegrated,” while since the beginning of the ceasefire, exactly the opposite is what is happening.

The military correspondence highlighted the clarity of the commitment of the resistance elements, with their leadership directing them to cease fire, which indicates a high level of organization. In addition, according to Shoval, the process of liberating prisoners from the Gaza Strip “is taking place exactly as Hamas wants, and it dictates the identity of the prisoners who are to be released, and sets the schedules time period for their release”. Shoval said that the behavior of the head of the movement’s political office in the Gaza Strip, Yahya Sinwar , indicates that even in the northern Gaza Strip, which is the main focus of the Israeli ground attack, the Hamas movement “is still far from the point of collapse.”

Operation Iron Swords

Hamas launched a large scale surprise attack - Operation Al-Aqsa Flood - on Saturday 07 October 2023 involving aerial, sea and ground operations from the Gaza Strip, often described as the worlds largest open-air prison. Israel responded with a massive bombardment - Operation Iron Swords.

www.globalsecurity.org

 

[Chesterton]

History tells us that using military force against terrorist groups rarely succeeds.

I'll tell you what never succeeds - offering to sing Kumbaya with them. They can't be sung with.

I remember a sad interview about a month ago with a person who was a neighbor of one of those hippie-types living on a kibbutz near the Gazan border. She said this lady said "oh I don't worry about terrorists. If I ever meet a terrorist I'll just offer him some tea and cookies." That lady was gunned down dead on Oct. 7.

 

[wing2000]

fter 52 days of war, Israel has killed less than 2,000 of the 30,000+ Hamas terrorists at the cost of 15,000 Palestinian lives. Despite one of the most intense bombardments in history, Hamas remains strong and is very much in control of what takes place in Gaza.

Source?

Several Israeli media outlets reported on the appearance of fighters from the Martyr Izz al-Din al-Qassam Brigades, the military wing of the Hamas movement, in the areas of the northern Gaza Strip that witnessed the heaviest hostilities and Israeli ground incursions, stressing that the movement succeeded in demonstrating its ability to send its members to northern Gaza “despite The presence of the Israeli army nearby.

Such is the nature of fighitng irregular military forces....they can appear any where, any time. Until Israel takes control of every buidling, street and tunnel, this will continue. I'm not sure that is even possible.

 

[Vambram]

Source: Biden Pressure on Israeli Tactics Will Leave Hamas Intact and in Power

A source within the Israeli government said Joe Biden's pressure regarding the IDF's tactics would lead to Hamas surviving the war intact.

www.breitbart.com

 

[durangodawood]

In a shocking gesture, Breitbart blames Biden.

 

[JosephZ]

Source?

Israel’s military estimates that during the assault on Gaza it has killed between 1,000 and 2,000 Hamas fighters out of a military force it believes is about 30,000 strong.

IDF messaging suggests Gaza truce unlikely to last much beyond Tuesday

Many expect pause to be extended if more hostages are released, but experts predict military campaign could run into next year

www.theguardian.com

 

[rjs330]

They were told to get out...but given no safe passage or for that matter, a destination. They were told to go south but the south was hit as well, though not as intensely.



Is that your take away from WW1?

Yes Germany was beaten into submission after the US entered the war.

 

[Ivan Hlavanda]

Got some kind of inside line on Israeli military plans?

It's a known fact that Hezbollah has much larger military power than Hamas, and about 10x more missiles. If Hezbollah and Israel go to war, it will be much much worse than what happened since Oct 7th