The Ten vs the 603

[Bob S]

In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus summarized the Law of Moses as being about how to love God and our neighbor, so it is the Law of Love, which Jeremiah 31:33 and Ezekiel 36:26-27 describe as being written on the hearts of man. Morality is in regard to what we ought to to and we ought to obey God, so all of the Law of Moses inherently deals with morality. Morality is not just in regard to our relationship with out neighbor, but also in regard to our relationship with God.

Morality has to do with our conduct to God and our fellow man. It has nothing to do with keeping days or the kind of cloth our garments are made, shaving our sideburns and things. Nine of the ten commandments, given only to Israel, were about morality, the Sabbath commandment was given as a thing required for them to do. Israel refused to obey those ten and Paul wrote in 2Cor3 that the ten actually became a curse to them calling them the "ministry of death". They were to be the guide for the Israelites to live by. 2Cor3:11 tells us: 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. What remains is more glorious than the ten were, it is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

 

[Bob S]

That isn't what scripture says. It says the 10 commandments are written in our hearts,

That simply is not true Gary. You can finagle all you want, but the truth is, according to Jesus ambassador, Paul the ten commandments have "been done away" verse 11 of 2Cor3 KJV. What is written in our hearts is Jn 15:9-14.

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

 

[Gary K]

That simply is not true Gary. You can finagle all you want, but the truth is, according to Jesus ambassador, Paul the ten commandments have "been done away" verse 11 of 2Cor3 KJV. What is written in our hearts is Jn 15:9-14.

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you.

So you believe Paul contradicts himself in the same letter? How could that happen to Paul who was inspired by God?

 

[Gary K]

Well, that's definitely one place where we see it differently

Bible Gateway passage: Numbers 15:22-23 - New American Standard Bible

‘But when you unintentionally do wrong and fail to comply with all these commandments which the LORD has spoken to Moses, that is, all that the LORD has commanded you through Moses from the day that the LORD gave commandments and onward, throughout your generations,

www.biblegateway.com

I owe you an apology. I had to put my little dog to sleep and bury him. He and I had been together 24/7 for 13 1/2 years. It's been the saddest time in my life. I was raised in a very dysfunctional family and I didn't cry at either one's funeral, so this has been the saddest time in my life and I was in as foul mood yesterday.

My wife got him for me after I got hurt and was very depressed. She brought him home and I told her to take him back as I hated Chihuahuas as Bear was a Chihuahua and Pappillon mix. It only took me a couple of weeks to fall in love with him as he was such a loving little guy. He only weighed 1.5lbs when we got him and got his name because his coat was only about a half inch long. So that when he walked away from you his butt waddled just like a bear's. He was my therapy dog for all these years.

He was the most athletic dog I've ever seen. He would run around my mil's dining table amd into the living room take a flying leap sic to eight feet from the couch and turn sideways in midair and hit the back of the couch, and start the routine all over again.

He was also very smart. His understanding of English was off the charts. I was sitting watching tv on day and I noticed him he was picking out the kibbles he didn't want eat and dropping them on the floor. The kibbles were different shapes and colors and he was dropping the ones he didn't want on the floor. I asked him if he was really that picky and he swung around and looked at me. I said they are all the same. He turned back around and looked at the kibbles on the floor and started eating them again.

The only thing that will ever cause me to forget him is my own death. I've had some really good dogs but nothing like him.

 

[Gary K]

Well, that's definitely one place where we see it differently

Bible Gateway passage: Numbers 15:22-23 - New American Standard Bible

‘But when you unintentionally do wrong and fail to comply with all these commandments which the LORD has spoken to Moses, that is, all that the LORD has commanded you through Moses from the day that the LORD gave commandments and onward, throughout your generations,

www.biblegateway.com

@Gary K , my man, if the Ten Commandments are the only moral laws, then the commandment to love God with all of our heart soul and mind is not a moral commandment, nor the commandment to love our neighbors as ourselves.

If the idea is that the first four of the 10 teach us how to love God, and the last six teach us about loving our neighbor, then I ask:
In the parable of a Good Samaritan, do the priest and the Levite break any of the Ten Commandments?

That is not true. The ten commandments are based on the principles of God's love. There is not a single one of them that a person will do to his fellow man if he loves them. And if he loves God he will keep the Sabbath too.

 

[Soyeong]

Morality has to do with our conduct to God and our fellow man. It has nothing to do with keeping days or the kind of cloth our garments are made, shaving our sideburns and things. Nine of the ten commandments, given only to Israel, were about morality, the Sabbath commandment was given as a thing required for them to do. Israel refused to obey those ten and Paul wrote in 2Cor3 that the ten actually became a curse to them calling them the "ministry of death". They were to be the guide for the Israelites to live by. 2Cor3:11 tells us: 11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. What remains is more glorious than the ten were, it is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

Being holy as God is holy in obedience to God is in regard to our conduct to God. You have given no basis for thinking that it can ever be moral to disobey anything that God has commanded or for thinking that God made a moral error about what ought to be done when instructed His people to be holy as He is holy. Israel's disobedience to God's law should be used as an example of what we should avoid doing, not as an example for us to emulate (1 Corinthians 10:1-13). In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey and obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So God's law is a ministry of life for those who choose by faith to obey it, which is why Jesus said that obedience to it is the way to inherit eternal life (Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28), while the fact that it is a ministry of life for those who refuse to obey it is not a very good reason for you to refuse to obey it. Furthermore, the Spirit has the role of leading us to do things that you refuse to obey (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

 

[Leaf473]

That is not true. The ten commandments are based on the principles of God's love. There is not a single one of them that a person will do to his fellow man if he loves them. And if he loves God he will keep the Sabbath too.

Yes, the Ten Commandments align with loving our neighbor, don't they?

But there's more to loving our neighbor than the 10 commandments, isn't there?

In the story of the Good Samaritan, do the priest and the levite break any of the 10 commandments?

 

[Leaf473]

Being holy as God is holy in obedience to God is in regard to our conduct to God. You have given no basis for thinking that it can ever be moral to disobey anything that God has commanded or for thinking that God made a moral error about what ought to be done when instructed His people to be holy as He is holy. Israel's disobedience to God's law should be used as an example of what we should avoid doing, not as an example for us to emulate (1 Corinthians 10:1-13). In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, it says that God's law is not too difficult for us to obey and obedience to it brings life and a blessing while disobedience brings death and a curse, so choose life! So God's law is a ministry of life for those who choose by faith to obey it, which is why Jesus said that obedience to it is the way to inherit eternal life (Matthew 19:17, Luke 10:25-28), while the fact that it is a ministry of life for those who refuse to obey it is not a very good reason for you to refuse to obey it. Furthermore, the Spirit has the role of leading us to do things that you refuse to obey (Ezekiel 36:26-27).

Hi Soyeong,

Are the people in your church instructed to do this?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 14:45 - New American Standard Bible

The owner shall therefore tear down the house, its stones, its timbers, and all the plaster of the house, and he shall take them outside the city to an unclean place.

www.biblegateway.com

 

[Gary K]

Yes, the Ten Commandments align with loving our neighbor, don't they?

But there's more to loving our neighbor than the 10 commandments, isn't there?

In the story of the Good Samaritan, do the priest and the levite break any of the 10 commandments?

No. How do do you figure it is easier to love your neighbor as yourself than to keep the 10 which are based in the same kind of love? That baffles me.

 

[Soyeong]

Hi Soyeong,

Are the people in your church instructed to do this?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 14:45 - New American Standard Bible

The owner shall therefore tear down the house, its stones, its timbers, and all the plaster of the house, and he shall take them outside the city to an unclean place.

www.biblegateway.com

There is the issue that it requires a Levitical priest to make that ruling and the issue that uncleanness is dependent of the temple. In other words, the temple is required for someone to be cleaned from being unclean and being unclean means that someone can't enter the temple.

 

[Leaf473]

But there's more to loving our neighbor than the 10 commandments, isn't there?

No. How do do you figure it is easier to love your neighbor as yourself than to keep the 10 which are based in the same kind of love? That baffles me.

It isn't easier to love your neighbor as yourself than it is to keep the ten commandments, it's much harder imo.

I see two positive Commandments in the 10, and eight negative ones. Surely there is more to loving your neighbor than taking two simple actions and avoiding eight others, isn't there? Don't you agree that there's more to loving your neighbor than that?

 

[Leaf473]

There is the issue that it requires a Levitical priest to make that ruling and the issue that uncleanness is dependent of the temple.

Are you saying that any instruction that contains the word "priest" isn't to be followed today?

Are you saying that you have to have a priest to make this determination?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 11:39-40 - New American Standard Bible

‘Also if one of the animals dies which you have for food, the one who touches its carcass becomes unclean until evening. He, too, who eats some of its carcass shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening, and the one who picks up its carcass shall wash his clothes and be unclean until...

www.biblegateway.com

In other words, the temple is required for someone to be cleaned from being unclean and being unclean means that someone can't enter the temple.

Are you saying that between the time of the instructions being given in the wilderness and Solomon, no one could be cleansed?

 

[Bob S]

Luke 10:25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”

27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

Those verses seem to me as being so very close as 1Jn3:
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

We find Jesus commandments in Jn15:
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

 

[Soyeong]

Luke 10:25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”

26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?”

27 So he answered and said, “ ‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind,’ and ‘your neighbor as yourself.’ ”

28 And He said to him, “You have answered rightly; do this and you will live.”

Those verses seem to me as being so very close as 1Jn3:
19 And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him.

20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

21 Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.

22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight.

23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.

24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

We find Jesus commandments in Jn15:
10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

12 This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

The Mosaic Law is the way that the Israelites knew how to obey the greatest two commandments and it is the way that we know how to love Jesus as he loved us.

 

[Soyeong]

Are you saying that any instruction that contains the word "priest" isn't to be followed today?

No, I'm saying that a law that is in regard to the conduct of Levitical priests require a Levitical priest to follow them.

Are you saying that you have to have a priest to make this determination?

Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 11:39-40 - New American Standard Bible

‘Also if one of the animals dies which you have for food, the one who touches its carcass becomes unclean until evening. He, too, who eats some of its carcass shall wash his clothes and be unclean until evening, and the one who picks up its carcass shall wash his clothes and be unclean until...

www.biblegateway.com

No.

Are you saying that between the time of the instructions being given in the wilderness and Solomon, no one could be cleansed?

There was also the tabernacle.

 

[Leaf473]

The Mosaic Law is the way that the Israelites knew how to obey the greatest two commandments and it is the way that we know how to love Jesus as he loved us.

Edited to add: Say, @Soyeong , we've talked about these things before. Before we get too deep into it again, shouldn't it really be the Levites that are teaching us these things?

Bible Gateway passage: Deuteronomy 33:10 - New American Standard Bible

They will teach Your ordinances to Jacob, And Your Law to Israel. They shall put incense before You, And whole burnt offerings on Your altar.

www.biblegateway.com

Peace be with you

(The original post is below the line
_________________
How can that work if we can't keep most of the laws, since God has removed Levites and the Temple?

 

[Leaf473]

No, I'm saying that a law that is in regard to the conduct of Levitical priests require a Levitical priest to follow them.

Okay... Can you give an example of an instruction that contains the word priest that does not require a priest?

No.

Then what do you mean by "uncleanness is dependent of the temple"?

There was also the tabernacle.

Right! So does dealing with uncleanness require a trip to the temple or tabernacle? If so, was everyone in the early church doing this on a regular basis?

 

[Gary K]

It isn't easier to love your neighbor as yourself than it is to keep the ten commandments, it's much harder imo.

I see two positive Commandments in the 10, and eight negative ones. Surely there is more to loving your neighbor than taking two simple actions and avoiding eight others, isn't there? Don't you agree that there's more to loving your neighbor than that?

How do you figure that? If you love your neighbor as yourself will you cheat on your wife, lie to your neighbor, covet anything that is your neighbor, hate anyone? The commandments were written in negative language because the Israelites had just come out of generations of slavery.

 

[Leaf473]

How do you figure that? If you love your neighbor as yourself will you cheat on your wife, lie to your neighbor, covet anything that is your neighbor, hate anyone?

No, you won't do those things. But isn't there more to loving your neighbor than avoiding those behaviors?

The commandments were written in negative language because the Israelites had just come out of generations of slavery.

That's an interesting idea

 

[Gary K]

No, you won't do those things. But isn't there more to loving your neighbor than avoiding those behaviors?


That's an interesting idea

What? Emotion rather than principle?