Israel-Hamas Thread II

[wing2000]

As the IDF continues to "tighten the noose" around Gaza City, Israeli commanders will need to decide how to engage a Hamas command center that, according to US and Israeli sources, is located under Gaza's largest hospital, where hundreds of Gazans are sheltering.


On Tuesday, Mr. Netanyahu said in a statement that Israel was working diplomatic channels to “provide the I.D.F. with international maneuvering room for continued military activity.”

The issue is coming to a boiling point as Israel Defense Forces close in on Al Shifa Hospital in the center of Gaza City. Israeli and American officials say that senior Hamas operatives have placed a command and control center underneath the hospital.

I.D.F. officials say they do not intend to back off.

The Israeli defense minister, Yoav Gallant, said on Tuesday that the Israeli military was “tightening the noose around Gaza City” and that Yahya Sinwar, the Hamas leader in Gaza, was “hiding in his bunker.”

An American intelligence official said Mr. Sinwar’s exact location was unclear and it was unknown what Israeli security and intelligence officials had gleaned about his whereabouts. But several other national security officials said the hospital is a hugely challenging target for the I.D.F. Striking it, one senior American official said, could kill hundreds or even thousands of Palestinians.

Israeli Forces Have Limited Time in Gaza, U.S. Officials Say

Israel’s response to the Hamas attacks has fueled sympathy around the world for the Palestinian cause even as Israel continues to bury its dead.

www.nytimes.com

 

[rjs330]

The level of casuistry to defend blowing apart thousands of women and children with bombs, something any decent person would otherwise find immoral, is the problem.

Still doesn't answer my question.

And who do you blame for those lost lives?

 

[FireDragon76]

Still doesn't answer my question.

And who do you blame for those lost lives?

You miss the point entirely.

 

[Landon Caeli]

You miss the point entirely.

Hatred of Jews is a real thing though. It has a looooong history in this world.

...There's no reason to believe that the Palestinians can ever overcome this problem. And that's why the problem of "open air prisons" persists there, but not with the Native Americans here, or in many of the other thousands of similar scenarios that have come and gone throughout history.

Anti-semitism is a mysterious phenomenon.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Let's forget history for a minute and focus on the persistent hatred of Jews by the Palestinians. Try and solve that alone, without making any comparisons, or references to anything that has ever occured..

Uncover the mystery of the curse of Anti-semitism.

 

[JosephZ]

It doesn't matter what Hamas wants. In other kinds of situations it might matter what the enemy wants, but this is different. When I quoted that Latin phrase about "_____ must be destroyed", you agreed with me. But the reason I quoted it, is that I've always taken the key word to be "must"; it has to be done, regardless of what it takes to get it done. So far, Israel is doing a very good job of ignoring world opinion, as they should.

General Brown of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff also shares my concerns.

Benjamin Netanyahu has admitted that Israel’s war against Hamas in the besieged Gaza Strip is taking longer than expected as Israel faces growing pressure over the soaring Palestinian death toll and its ultimate objectives from the conflict.

Netanyahu told Fox News on Thursday that Israel’s more than month-long air and land offensive against Hamas was “taking a little longer than I had hoped”.

“I hope we could do it very fast, but we have battled conditions on the ground, the safety of our own forces, the hostages [held by Hamas],” Netanyahu said.

Netanyahu’s comments came after US officials suggested that Israel — which has vowed to eradicate Hamas — had a limited time to conduct its operations in Gaza.

General Charles Q Brown, chair of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters this week that the aim of destroying Hamas was “a pretty large order”.

He also acknowledged that the higher the Palestinian death toll, the greater the risk that the conflict would create the conditions to produce the next generation of militants.

“That’s something we have to pay attention to,” Gen Brown said. “That’s why when we talk about time — the faster you can get to a point where you stop the hostilities, you have less strife for the civilian population that turns into someone who now wants to be the next member of Hamas.”

Client Challenge

 

[FireDragon76]

Let's forget history for a minute and focus on the persistent hatred of Jews by the Palestinians.

Palestinians are not all Muslims, much less anti-Jewish. Just like not all Jews are Zionists.

 

[wing2000]

General Charles Q Brown, chair of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters this week that the aim of destroying Hamas was “a pretty large order”.

He also acknowledged that the higher the Palestinian death toll, the greater the risk that the conflict would create the conditions to produce the next generation of militants.

“That’s something we have to pay attention to,” Gen Brown said. “That’s why when we talk about time — the faster you can get to a point where you stop the hostilities, you have less strife for the civilian population that turns into someone who now wants to be the next member of Hamas.”

Yes, the General speaks from decades of US counter-insurgency operations in Afghanistan & Iraq. How Israel carries out its military objectives matters...for Isreal and the US.

 

[Chesterton]

General Brown of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff also shares my concerns.

Benjamin Netanyahu has admitted that Israel’s war against Hamas in the besieged Gaza Strip is taking longer than expected as Israel faces growing pressure over the soaring Palestinian death toll and its ultimate objectives from the conflict.

Netanyahu told Fox News on Thursday that Israel’s more than month-long air and land offensive against Hamas was “taking a little longer than I had hoped”.

“I hope we could do it very fast, but we have battled conditions on the ground, the safety of our own forces, the hostages [held by Hamas],” Netanyahu said.

Netanyahu’s comments came after US officials suggested that Israel — which has vowed to eradicate Hamas — had a limited time to conduct its operations in Gaza.

General Charles Q Brown, chair of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters this week that the aim of destroying Hamas was “a pretty large order”.

He also acknowledged that the higher the Palestinian death toll, the greater the risk that the conflict would create the conditions to produce the next generation of militants.

“That’s something we have to pay attention to,” Gen Brown said. “That’s why when we talk about time — the faster you can get to a point where you stop the hostilities, you have less strife for the civilian population that turns into someone who now wants to be the next member of Hamas.”

Client Challenge

I feel the opposite of Netanyahu. The offensive's going faster than I thought it would. I initially feared there would be much more delay due to IEDs, booby traps, ambushes and such. But obviously he knows a whole lot more about the situation than I do.

As for U.S. officials, I think they should just keep their mouths shut and let Israel take care of business. These are some of the same fools (including Biden) who were actually calling for a ceasefire shortly after the ground war got rolling.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Palestinians are not all Muslims, much less anti-Jewish. Just like not all Jews are Zionists.

Oh wow. That's super interesting.

 

[wing2000]

I feel the opposite of Netanyahu. The offensive's going faster than I thought it would. I initially feared there would be much more delay due to IEDs, booby traps, ambushes and such. But obviously he knows a whole lot more about the situation than I do.

As for U.S. officials, I think they should just keep their mouths shut and let Israel take care of business. These are some of the same fools (including Biden) who were actually calling for a ceasefire shortly after the ground war got rolling.

What Israel does will impact the US as well. We are, after all, the primary provider of Israel's arms (to the tune of 3 Billion dollars a year). Once more, Israel would be foolish to ignore the experience of the US over the last two decades. And btw, Biden never called for a ceasefire. He has, in the last two weeks, called for a pause to allow evacations...which Israel formally annouced it would do, yesterday.

 

[Chesterton]

What Israel does will impact the US as well. We are, after all, the primary provider of Israel's arms (to the tune of 3 Billion dollars a year). Once more, Israel would be foolish to ignore the experience of the US over the last two decades. And btw, Biden never called for a ceasefire. He has, in the last two weeks, called for a pause to allow evacations...which Israel formally annouced it would do, yesterday.

I agree, what Israel does may impact the Western world and beyond; all the more reason they need to do the job right. As long as there is Islam, there will always be radical Islam. It's had its radical strain since it began. I think you're right about Biden. I must have mis-remembered something.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Fighting rages around Gaza’s hospitals as U.S. cautions over civilian losses​

At least five hospitals reported being under siege or in close proximity to the fighting in Gaza City, the heaviest yet in the one-month-old war. Hospitals have become the focus for many people trying escape the conflict and the facilities have been struggling with scarce resources to deal not only with the inflow of casualties but also thousands of Palestinians seeking refuge.

The Israel Defense Forces confirmed it had surrounded several hospitals and demanded they be evacuated, according to Israel Army Radio.

The World Health Organization on Friday confirmed reports that al-Shifa Hospital, the largest in the city, has come under bombardment. Mohamed Abu Salmiya, the director general, told Al Jazeera that there had been at least four strikes on it by Friday.

In a message Friday morning, Sharafa [someone sheltering in the hospital] then said that the shelling and gunfire continued through the night and into the morning, and that the communication outages make it difficult to get the word out to tell people to stay away from the hospital.

Later on Friday, the three nearby hospitals — al-Nasr, al-Rantisi and the Gaza Eye Hospital — that had been surrounded by the fighting were evacuated after being given a route by the IDF.
“We were carrying white flags and when we walked out, we passed by the tanks, I was meters away from one,” said Baqr Qaoud, director of the Nasr Hospital. He said some 4,000 people left and he was the last doctor to walk out of the hospital. He watched tanks close in on his hospital as he departed.

The U.N. High Commissioner for Human Rights Volker Türk, who has condemned atrocities on both sides which he says constitute war crimes, called for an investigation into what he called Israel’s use of “high-impact explosive weapons” in Gaza. Speaking in the Jordanian capital Amman, he said the weapons were “razing” buildings to the ground and causing indiscriminate destruction in densely populated areas. “We have very serious concerns that these amount to disproportionate attacks in breach of international humanitarian law,”

 

[rjs330]

You miss the point entirely.

No I think you you are dodging the question.

 

[Chesterton]

Speaking in the Jordanian capital Amman, he said the weapons were “razing” buildings to the ground...

I'd remind him to look at the bright side. At least there are fewer tall buildings off of which to throw homosexuals.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Palestinians are not all Muslims, much less anti-Jewish. Just like not all Jews are Zionists.

Israel air force reveals note Hamas fighter allegedly carried during Oct 7 attack

The Israel air force has released an image of a note it says was found on a Hamas fighter involved in the Oct. 7 attack that launched the war.

www.google.com

"The words from Hamas commanders," according to the Israeli air force, "consist of an order to kill Jews and encouragement to decapitate their victims and tear out their hearts and livers.
"Know that this enemy of yours is a disease that has no cure, other than beheading and extracting the hearts and livers!" the Israeli military agency quoted the note as saying in a post on X.
The intellectual dishonesty of your argument is the dividing line you draw between Palestinians and Hamas but not Israelis and the IDF.

 

[rjs330]

General Brown of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff also shares my concerns.

Benjamin Netanyahu has admitted that Israel’s war against Hamas in the besieged Gaza Strip is taking longer than expected as Israel faces growing pressure over the soaring Palestinian death toll and its ultimate objectives from the conflict.

Netanyahu told Fox News on Thursday that Israel’s more than month-long air and land offensive against Hamas was “taking a little longer than I had hoped”.

“I hope we could do it very fast, but we have battled conditions on the ground, the safety of our own forces, the hostages [held by Hamas],” Netanyahu said.

Netanyahu’s comments came after US officials suggested that Israel — which has vowed to eradicate Hamas — had a limited time to conduct its operations in Gaza.

General Charles Q Brown, chair of the US Joint Chiefs of Staff, told reporters this week that the aim of destroying Hamas was “a pretty large order”.

He also acknowledged that the higher the Palestinian death toll, the greater the risk that the conflict would create the conditions to produce the next generation of militants.

“That’s something we have to pay attention to,” Gen Brown said. “That’s why when we talk about time — the faster you can get to a point where you stop the hostilities, you have less strife for the civilian population that turns into someone who now wants to be the next member of Hamas.”

Client Challenge

It's just shocking to me that even generals are falling for this stupidity. Hamas and other terrorist organizations have NEVER had difficulty getting more members.

The hand wringing is incredible. It's terrorist propaganda and it's psychological terrorism to make such a claim. As I've said this in other places. The cry that "oh we must appease the terrorists and we cannot and must not and dare not attack the terrorists and try and remove them because if we do it will just create more terrorists" is nothing more than appeasement. We are doing EXACTLY what they want. They gather members and more members and more members even when not attacked.

The way to to get rid of a terrorist attacks against you is to let it be known that it will not be tolerated. That utter destruction is coming their way to them and their supporters.

 

[rjs330]

You miss the point entirely.

I don't think so, you're totally dodging the question.

 

[rjs330]

Oh wow. That's super interesting.

No kidding since we have seen world wide marches in the streets with Muslims (not alone mind you) chanting for the destruction of the Jews. No not every Muslim hates Jews, but obviously there is a HUGE amount that do.

If the same percentage of white people where to be marching in the streets calling for the death of black people it would be a crises of epic proportion. But because it's Jews who are under attack it's defended as "well there are Muslims who don't feel that way." Right now it's ringing quite hollow.

 

[Valletta]

It's just shocking to me that even generals are falling for this stupidity. Hamas and other terrorist organizations have NEVER had difficulty getting more members.

The hand wringing is incredible. It's terrorist propaganda and it's psychological terrorism to make such a claim. As I've said this in other places. The cry that "oh we must appease the terrorists and we cannot and must not and dare not attack the terrorists and try and remove them because if we do it will just create more terrorists" is nothing more than appeasement. We are doing EXACTLY what they want. They gather members and more members and more members even when not attacked.

The way to to get rid of a terrorist attacks against you is to let it be known that it will not be tolerated. That utter destruction is coming their way to them and their supporters.

It turns out the top generals are essentially politicians, and like politicians do the wrong thing on so many occasions. This general is undermining Israel's effort to stop the terrorists.