Israel-Hamas Thread II

[Pommer]

Hate Crime With An Ironic Twist

"A woman was arrested after intentionally driving her car into what she thought was a Jewish school in Indiana, authorities said."

"One adult, a 7-month-old baby, and three children under age 3 were inside the school when the crash occurred, according to court records. None were injured."

"further stated that she had “passed by a couple times and saw the ‘Israel school’,” police said, and also told police, “Yes. I did it on purpose.”"

Woman purposely crashed car into what she thought was a Jewish school, Indiana police say

Ruba Almaghtheh, 34, drove her Chevy Impala into the Israelite School of Universal and Practical Knowledge in Indianapolis, authorities said.

www.usatoday.com

Indiana woman allegedly crashes 'on purpose' into what she thought was Jewish school: Police

An Indiana woman allegedly crashed "on purpose" into what she thought was a Jewish school.

abcnews.go.com

Turns out the structure is associated with Radical Hebrew Israelites, a group the Southern Poverty Law Center designated as an anti-Israel and anti-Semitic extremist organization.

"The Anti-Defamation League said that the Israelite School of Universal and Practical Knowledge is in fact an extremist organization that is anti-Israel. The Southern Poverty Law Center has also designated the organization a hate group."

Curb your antisemitism.

There’s a thread somewhere about this story.

 

[Vanellus]

Israel now bombing cemeteries in Gaza
https://www.palestinechronicle.com/...etery-here-is-the-devastating-outcome-photos/
‘The buildings are now ashes’: nowhere feels safe from Israeli bombs in Gaza

 

[Vanellus]

Yep...can't say that one surprises me a whole lot.

For all the talk of the "Cruelty of Israel's actions", people forget that the lion's share of cruelty against Muslims, typically comes from other Muslims. I forget which stand-up comedian said it, but they said "It's the only religion that operates like the Mafia...where you get whacked if you do something that offends one of the other families"


The same is true across a wide variety of other facets of daily life in those areas.


When the handwringing from pro-Hamas propaganda leads to complaints about Israel's operations resulting in the deaths and injuries of women, it's important to keep this in mind:

The Deadly Toll for Palestinian Women

Videos that circulated on social media in August appearing to show a hospital corridor with a woman heard pleading and screaming, and sounds of intermittent thuds, have sparked protests and outrage at the lethal cost that Palestinian women pay because of a lack of protections and discriminatory...

www.hrw.org

So if Israel accidentally kills women as a result of collateral damage in a military operation, other international players in the Muslim world will get absolutely outraged about it. When their own men beat & kill women because "they dishonored me in public", that never seems to come up in the conversation...funny how that works out.

Wasn't Yitzhak Rabin killed by an Israeli?

 

[FireDragon76]

Yep...can't say that one surprises me a whole lot.

For all the talk of the "Cruelty of Israel's actions", people forget that the lion's share of cruelty against Muslims, typically comes from other Muslims. I forget which stand-up comedian said it, but they said "It's the only religion that operates like the Mafia...where you get whacked if you do something that offends one of the other families"

That sounds like somebody with no actual real familiarity with Muslims.

The Muslims I have know have been more humane people than many Christians I have known.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Israel now bombing cemeteries in Gaza
https://www.palestinechronicle.com/...etery-here-is-the-devastating-outcome-photos/
‘The buildings are now ashes’: nowhere feels safe from Israeli bombs in Gaza
View attachment 338987

Not surprising, considering that the misfired rocket that hit that hospital was fired from a cemetery.

 

[ThatRobGuy]

That sounds like somebody with no actual real familiarity with Muslims.

The Muslims I have know have been more humane people than many Christians I have known.

I'm sure everyone will have anecdotal examples of people they know who are good or bad.

But in terms of human rights abuses specifically against women, one particular theocratic system seems to foster disproportionate amounts of it.

Some things that are fairly commonplace in the Arab world are things that would make Ted Cruz look like a radical feminist in comparison.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Elderly Jewish man dies after ‘altercation’ with pro-Palestinian demonstrator in Thousand Oaks​

‘Conflicting statements’ complicate investigation into Jewish man’s death at protest​

Witnesses from both sides of the protests have shared “conflicting statements” about what led to Kessler’s fall and who the aggressor was, Fryhoff said, noting that the investigation is ongoing.

“What exactly transpired prior to Mr. Kessler falling backwards isn’t crystal clear right now,” [Sheriff] Fryhoff said. “We’re working tirelessly to gather all the facts and evidence related to this incident. We will do everything in our power, using every resource we have at our disposal, to make sense of the incident, and if criminal wrongdoing is discovered, to bring the person or persons responsible to justice.”

The suspect, who was identified only as a 50-year-old man from Moorpark, cooperated with deputies, telling officials that he was “involved in an altercation with Mr. Kessler,” Fryhoff said. The suspect was among those who called 911 after Kessler fell, the sheriff said.

“We understand that many in the community have made certain observations, and have therefore drawn conclusions,” [Capt.] Worthy said. “However, this case is highly active and ongoing, and we need to maintain the integrity of the investigation, despite what is being posted on social media platforms.”

 

[rjs330]

"Shouldn't the Israelis at least be killing random Lebanese and Yemeni citizens?"... That's illogical thinking. It's also illogical to keep quiet about Hezbollah and Hamas firing rockets randomly into Iarael, targeting civilians, but then complain about Israel.

...People act like the terrorists get a free pass because it's expected, while Israel is held to the standard of Right Hand of God.

I think it's anti-semitic to hold Jews to a higher standard, as if they're more culpable than regular people because of their status as Jews. But no, they're normal people.

Not to mention it's anti-Semetic to do so. When you put more pressure on Jews to put up with the attacks and have no response to the blatant killing of their people while at the same time blaming them for the attacks on their people and refusing to call for the end of the attacks is blatantly anti-Semitic.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Not to mention it's anti-Semetic to do so. When you put more pressure on Jews

I think it's anti-semitic to hold Jews to a higher standard

This conflation of Israel with Jews is just as erroneous as the conflation of Hamas with Palestinians.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

As I wrote in a prior thread:

"To destroy Hamas, Isreal is aiming to destroy the underground tunnel network that covers the entirety of Gaza. Given how extensive the network is and Hamas' propensity to locate their high value military targets near mosque, hospitals etc, Israel is faced with the challenge of how to destroy the tunnels while minimizing human life. It also appears Israel has no inention of sending it's troops into the tunnels given the high risk factor. In the case of the Jabaliya neighborhood, at least two 2,000-pound bombs were used in a densely populated area. The human toll from such a decion would be obvious to the Israeli government.

Israel state's it was targetting a high level Hamas commander as well as tunnel infrastrcure.

Is killing so many civilians justfified? I'm not convinced it is.

Once more, given the situation, we'll see many more Jabaliya like bombings in the days and weeks ahead. Thousands of civilians will die as a result."

The law of armed conflict says the incidental killing of and harm to civilians and damage to objects must not exceed the direct military advantage to be gained. The Geneva Conventions, the widely accepted basis for international humanitarian law and codes of warfare, were adopted in 1949 with the aim of preventing governments from inflicting the level of mass casualties of World War II.

They should just flood the tunnels for a few months.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

This conflation of Israel with Jews is just as erroneous as the conflation of Hamas with Palestinians.

Is that because the population is diverse?

I was laughed at in a thread about a decade or so ago when I made the argument that "Jewish" is both a race and a religion. I felt like the protagonist in the courtroom in Idiocracy. The arrogant ignorance on display was laughable.

And I was woefully outnumbered.

 

[rjs330]

Why was there any doubt that the “supporters of terroists’ (just happened) to be correct in this instance, since it was confirmed by the IDF

What are you talking about? Qatar said Hamas wasn't building these tunnels by hospitals etc. IDF has not confirmed that is correct. Qatar supports Hamas which means they are a terrorist supporter.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

This conflation of Israel with Jews is just as erroneous as the conflation of Hamas with Palestinians.

I disagree. First, there is no such thing as a "Palestinian", other than to describe a region in which someone lives. But that doesn't even work today because there is no region called Palestine. Second, Conflating Gazans with Hamas is like, in the early 1940's, conflating Germans with Nazis. Which is why we bombed Berlin, Hamburg, Dresden, etc. And yes, a lot of children died. War is hell. It's why Captain Kirk said, "War is a thing to be avoided."

 

[Reasonably Sane]

What are you talking about? Qatar said Hamas wasn't building these tunnels by hospitals etc. IDF has not confirmed that is correct. Qatar supports Hamas which means they are a terrorist supporter.

Which means I don't believe a word Qatar sez.

 

[Reasonably Sane]

This guy really gets to the point on a lot of this. It's long, but if you only listen to the fist 7 minutes it's an eye opener:

 

[essentialsaltes]

Gaza must not be reoccupied, should be run by Palestinians, says Blinken​

Netanyahu’s declaration earlier this week that Israel could assume responsibility for Gaza’s security “for an indefinite period” set off red flags for the Biden administration, whose stance is that Israel needs to avoid any suggestion of an open-ended occupation of Gaza, U.S. officials said on the condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive internal discussions.

“The United States believes key elements should include no forcible displacement of Palestinians from Gaza. Not now, not after the war,” Blinken added. “No use of Gaza as a platform for terrorism or other violent attacks. No reoccupation of Gaza after the conflict ends. No attempt to blockade or besiege Gaza. No reduction in the territory of Gaza.”

“Gaza cannot continue to be run by Hamas,” Blinken said. “It’s also clear that Israel cannot occupy Gaza. Now the reality is that there may be a need for some transition period at the end of the conflict, but it is imperative that the Palestinian people be central to the governance of Gaza and the West Bank.”

 

[rjs330]

And who has leverage with Hamas to apply this pressure? Iran?
What incentive would there be for Hamas to surrender?

The pressure of all the communities of the world could do it. Stop funding them, stop encouraging them. The incentive would be a ceasing of support including material support.

So your answer is we can't do anything about it so instead we need to tell Israel they have to stop, which further encourages Hamas?

In other words you have no answer.

 

[wing2000]

They should just flood the tunnels for a few months.

...Hamas still has 200+ hostages believed to be in the tunnels somewhere. Besides, I doubt Israel has the capability to pump that much water into the tunnel system. From what I read, army engineers are using explosives to destroy tunnels as ground units advance.

 

[wing2000]

The pressure of all the communities of the world could do it. Stop funding them, stop encouraging them. The incentive would be a ceasing of support including material support.

So your answer is we can't do anything about it so instead we need to tell Israel they have to stop, which further encourages Hamas?

In other words you have no answer.

I don't believe *anyone* has "the answer" to solve the issue of Gaza.

 

[rjs330]

You are conflating the residents of Gaza with Hamas. The people of Gaza are not responsible for Hamas's attacks, and most are too young to have ever voted for Hamas. Hamas doesn't allow democratic elections in Gaza.

Collective punishment of civilians for military atrocities or terrorist attacks is against international law.

They are not punishing Gazans. If Israel was really doing that they could actually do that. Israel literally could kill every Gazan if they wanted to. But the truth is they are not and they are trying to prevent the death of civilians.

But what Israel has done is warn Gazans civilians. They have made phone calls, dropped leaflets and sent SMS messages all in efforts to try and remove civilians from the area. In fact Israel has been attempting to open a corridor for citizens to get to the south. Guess who has prevented civilians from leaving? Who has blocked the roads to prevent them from leaving? Who has been attacking the Israelites to try and prevent them from opening the escape corridor?

Now try again with your claim Israel is deliberately punishing the Gazans citizens. Israel has done more to try and prevent citizen deaths than any other country in other wars.

You are doing nothing but parroting Hamas supporter propaganda. I'm not claiming you are a Hamas supporter, but you are parroting their propaganda.