Christian Viewpoint On The Gun Debate

[Divide]

We don't live in some philosophical state of nature. We are responsible for others as far as we are citizens who inform law making in this country. Radical individualism is an illusion.

...who inform law making? Whatever in the world do you mean?

Radical individualism is an an illusion? So does that mean that when we get attacked and the grid goes down, or theres an earthquake which splits the US manland almost in two, and the resulting looting and chaos which will come after the event that my government is going to come to me and comfort me and my family and provide for us food and protection?

Excuse me sir, but, Bwahahahaha! Ok, I'll watch out the window for their arrival lol. It's going to be a radically individualistic reality during these times. When the crapper meets the fan blades life is going to change fast for Americans.

I'm not the Philosopher here, that would be FireDragon! But in the interest of discussion, let's. Is there anyone who can not see worse times coming to America? I don't care which one is your fav doom & gloom scenario, there's a zillion of them. Bad weather, climate change, hurricanes & tonados, earthquakes, Yellowstone. Attacked by the Russians from the north border, EMP attack on the united states which takes down the grid, Food shortages, The US Navy has published mas showing the expected damage and splitting of America almost in two, you can easily google up these maps. I think that supposed to happen west of the Mississippi river? filled up with ocean water. All of these predictions do not have to come true. It would only take one or two of these disastor scenarios to happen to send the country into chaos.

I did a lot of praying about this and it was revealed to me that the Lord has instructed us to be prepared for He has told the end from the beginning. Too many things falling into place with scripture. Reading the bible and watching the news is about the same thing now. You know what that tells me? It's true. But in the spirit of the thread the Lord did teach me that being prepared is a good thing, but no overdo it or to idolize weapons. The super preppers that you see videos of will not be better prepared than people with less stockpile of weapons lol. Those people are just as much protected by the Lord than those who give more time and money to guns putting more of their confidence in them instead of the Lord. They will be three feet from me and if I sit still they will not even see me for I am hidden under the shadow of the Lord.

I have a couple related testimonies about when the Lord was teaching me different aspects of this belief in Him. First and alone, but yes it is needful to have a sword. He actuall made a bigger point to me that whie I am stockpiling food and such to not forget that other people will be showing up that need help and food, so grab an extra for them for the shelf for when it is needed.

All those teachings to me sort of makes a guy wonder if he really could defeat a Goliath? I think it has to be so that it was true because the Bible is the book of Truth. But I'm not fighting Goliath unless the Holy Spirit says to go fight him. Meantime, it's just personal responsibility at home. Preparing to help more than preparing to kill. That's a good plan. That sounds just like the Lord.

 

[Divide]

However, in contradistinction from these two false ideological leads, I think the key word Jesus and His apostles wanted us all to pay attention to, and over which we have such a difficult time coming to terms, is "inter-dependence," especially within the Body of Christ. We all need to work harder to be mindful of our duties as Christians over and above our other, civic duties.

Absolutely. We are one body, one Head and one Spirit. But we are still living in the material world and have a mission to do for the Lord here. We were born into a corrupted world. Into a war and we are behind enemy lines. The world has pretty much always been a dangerous place. And Jesus made a point about that in another teaching.

Luke 22:36, 38
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one...

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough..../KJV

These verse clearly are teaching to have a sword or two. The modern day equivilent is certainly a gun. So it is advised by the Lord to have a gun or two. No big deal. If you have a big family, even a few more guns might make sense. Seems right to me.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

...who inform law making? Whatever in the world do you mean?

Radical individualism is an an illusion? So does that mean that when we get attacked and the grid goes down, or theres an earthquake which splits the US manland almost in two, and the resulting looting and chaos which will come after the event that my government is going to come to me and comfort me and my family and provide for us food and protection?

Excuse me sir, but, Bwahahahaha! Ok, I'll watch out the window for their arrival lol. It's going to be a radically individualistic reality during these times. When the crapper meets the fan blades life is going to change fast for Americans.

I'm not the Philosopher here, that would be FireDragon! But in the interest of discussion, let's. Is there anyone who can not see worse times coming to America? I don't care which one is your fav doom & gloom scenario, there's a zillion of them. Bad weather, climate change, hurricanes & tonados, earthquakes, Yellowstone. Attacked by the Russians from the north border, EMP attack on the united states which takes down the grid, Food shortages, The US Navy has published mas showing the expected damage and splitting of America almost in two, you can easily google up these maps. I think that supposed to happen west of the Mississippi river? filled up with ocean water. All of these predictions do not have to come true. It would only take one or two of these disastor scenarios to happen to send the country into chaos.

I did a lot of praying about this and it was revealed to me that the Lord has instructed us to be prepared for He has told the end from the beginning. Too many things falling into place with scripture. Reading the bible and watching the news is about the same thing now. You know what that tells me? It's true. But in the spirit of the thread the Lord did teach me that being prepared is a good thing, but no overdo it or to idolize weapons. The super preppers that you see videos of will not be better prepared than people with less stockpile of weapons lol. Those people are just as much protected by the Lord than those who give more time and money to guns putting more of their confidence in them instead of the Lord. They will be three feet from me and if I sit still they will not even see me for I am hidden under the shadow of the Lord.

I have a couple related testimonies about when the Lord was teaching me different aspects of this belief in Him. First and alone, but yes it is needful to have a sword. He actuall made a bigger point to me that whie I am stockpiling food and such to not forget that other people will be showing up that need help and food, so grab an extra for them for the shelf for when it is needed.

All those teachings to me sort of makes a guy wonder if he really could defeat a Goliath? I think it has to be so that it was true because the Bible is the book of Truth. But I'm not fighting Goliath unless the Holy Spirit says to go fight him. Meantime, it's just personal responsibility at home. Preparing to help more than preparing to kill. That's a good plan. That sounds just like the Lord.

Absolutely. We are one body, one Head and one Spirit. But we are still living in the material world and have a mission to do for the Lord here. We were born into a corrupted world. Into a war and we are behind enemy lines. The world has pretty much always been a dangerous place. And Jesus made a point about that in another teaching.

Luke 22:36, 38
36 Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one...

38 And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough..../KJV

These verse clearly are teaching to have a sword or two. The modern day equivilent is certainly a gun. So it is advised by the Lord to have a gun or two. No big deal. If you have a big family, even a few more guns might make sense. Seems right to me.

No, those verses definitely DO NOT imply that Jesus was giving a universal command to all of His disciples. Can you see why?

 

[Divide]

It's not name calling to point out the fact that "individualism" isn't and has never been a Christian moral value. It's not biblical. We probably shouldn't talk it up or even simply imply that it ever was ...

It was clearly mild sarcasm at the very least. It doesnt mean anything other than the anti gun people in the thread have a short sighted view on life.

I know you guys like to play politics and this is prolly your favorite. But this is (technically) peace time right now. If anything happens life will and can change fast and it will. Then it will not be peace time anymore and many of our (seems to be anti gun in the thread) friends will undoubtably change their perspective and beyond already having a pistol or two stashed because their smart...they will wish that they had at least picked up one or two AR15's.

And if not then it is perhaps that the Lord God is shing upon them? (or it could just be they was short sighted, lol!)

Short sighted isnt name calling is it? Lol.

 

[Divide]

No, those verses definitely DO NOT imply that Jesus was giving a universal command to all of His disciples. Can you see why?

Not yet but I'm hoping that you can explain it.

 

[2PhiloVoid]

It was clearly mild sarcasm at the very least. It doesnt mean anything other than the anti gun people in the thread have a short sighted view on life.

I know you guys like to play politics and this is prolly your favorite. But this is (technically) peace time right now. If anything happens life will and can change fast and it will. Then it will not be peace time anymore and many of our (seems to be anti gun in the thread) friends will undoubtably change their perspective and beyond already having a pistol or two stashed because their smart...they will wish that they had at least picked up one or two AR15's.

And if not then it is perhaps that the Lord God is shing upon them? (or it could just be they was short sighted, lol!)

Short sighted isnt name calling is it? Lol.

You didn't answer my question.

Also, ......................................................................... I don't play politics. I think you may have mistaken me for an ultra-liberal.

 

[Divide]

He represents the idolatrous gun culture and politics that conservative Christians support.

You can not paint the gun culture as entirely idolatrous, that's absurd. It seems to me that being a conservative Christian would be more in line with Biblical values than those who seek to be left wing christians?

The left used to be called the radical left in politics. Now they are calling us the radicals, isnt that a hoot?!
Those (previously called) Radical Left Wing Extremists seem to have a very liberal stance. They are the pro abortion group, the pro gay group all manner of evils that should not be upon the people.

Politics aint really got anything to do with Christianity anyway. So if they want to make it big deal like they even can make it about politics, then, yeah I have a gun and they might be coming for me. But it's not about the guns, it's because we are the Lords Children. They will hate us, because they hated Him first.

Nevertheless, I know what idolatry means and awhile back I may have been a little bit overly armed? I had a big maginificant collection of guns of all types. But I noticed the danger of falling into idolatry and so weaned the collection down. But I didnt need that many by any stretch. And with doom on the horizon it was good to consolidate to the calibers that I would definely need if shtf. And so some calibers I had, I let go of. why have a 300 win mag which is very ewxpensive ammo (and brass & bullets) when an old time 308 winchester is just as good just not quite as far. But I dont engage at 600 or 800 yards, lol! The objective is to survive. If they're 600 yards away, I can walk away, lol.

And my 12 ga SG didn't make the cut either! I used to reload for it. And I know it's devastating up close like in the house (lol). But if I ever (God forbid!) that I ever am forced to step outside, I want a rifle. A Rifle is much more effective ouside than any shotgun is. With the exception of duck hunting what advantage outside do shotguns have? Zero, zip. Nada. Any rifle has less recoil and higher ammo capacity than all shotguns do. So I chose the Ar15 and sold the SG.

So I worked towards having less but well chosen firearms. Because I do not want to be idolatrous with guns. Actually I think it was something that the Lord made me do. Sometimes I think it's my bright idea but it was only instruction from the Lord and I heard and obeyed!

 

[dogs4thewin]

Punched in the face? Not since I was a little kid, perhaps. I was smart enough to stay out of trouble.

I live in a neighborhood where I occasionally find MS-13 gang tags. So don't preach to me about living a privileged life. I'm still under no illusions that a gun is going to make me safer, or that it won't exact a cost on my soul. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

self defense is not living by the sword. Living by the sword are the people that are quick to turn to violence living by the sword is not self defense or defense of others. There is a BIG difference. Most people with guns do not want to kill anyone; in fact there are case where a good guy with a gun dies because he waits too long. Now, are there also good guys with guns who act too quickly when threatened yes, but I can promise you that even those people do not usually go around looking for trouble.

For example, my uncle now I was not there so I am not certain this would have been a justified, but knowing what I know about GA law and the area this was in this one would have almost certainly at least made it to court.

The story he and my aunt were at a service station when a group of young men probably half his age or less asked for money. They both carry. Now, he did not know what they had on them or what they would do if refused, What he DID know was that he was likely outnumbered because actually there were other people around even though only one asked for money (I think) I was not there) and would very likely be out physicaled even if it WAS one on one so he gets my aunt to give them money.

Now, in that situation it likely would have been a justified shoot because it would have been reasonable for him to fear for his life, and moreover his circumstances late 50s/early 60s with a group half his age where it likely would not have had to wait until a weapon was actually shown to shoot. People are allowed to use circumstances like that to determined when they fear for their lives and the justice system judges/DAS/ and judies are permitted to consider such factors, yet not a shot was fired that day. Now, had the man came up and either had a weapon ( no matter if it were real/ or acted like they had a weapon he almost certainly would have shot them and you could not get more justified than that

Examples like that are far from living by the sword Examples where people are actually attacked and it could turn deadly and they or someone else uses a weapon is not living by the sword that is self defense/ defense of others and it could even be argued in most situations ( assuming it is not over your faith that that is not only OK, but also someone's duty if they have that ability.

 

[Divide]

You didn't answer my question.

Also, ......................................................................... I don't play politics. I think you may have mistaken me for an ultra-liberal.

What question?

Also,.......I didnt bring politics into it. I did respond when another poster brought up politics. Do you remeber who that was? And I think that since you have taken an antigun stance in this thread that it's a good bet that you're a liberal. I don't know if you are ultra liberal or not. You don't really come across as an ultra liberal. But you do come across as a Liberal

 

[Divide]

How would you handle it if shtf and found your home to be being attacked from criminal types? That is a scary proposition. My house has four sides to it and all sides have to be covered. If it is a sustained attack where they do not run away from your initial resistance with gunfire...then it just got deep. But presumable the sustained attack would be likely to be from one position and in that type of scenario I think I need 3 AR15's and 1 .308 WInchester. You see the guys with the AR's give supressive fire that gives the guy with the .308 time to work! I think a good balance is 3 AR15's for every .308/30 cal.

I walked around my house and pretended that I was going to be attacking my house and I looked for where I would want to be if I was going to do that. And now I know if anyone attacks me I know where they will fall back to, lol. I hope they keep going.

But it has been peace time too long in the US (not my opinion) to not see the signs of the times and plan your response in the home against an attack from outside.......before it happens. The only reasonable thing to do is to prepare for a variety of circumstances.

Never forbearing our Faith in the Lord.

 

[Divide]

I'm still under no illusions that a gun is going to make me safer, or that it won't exact a cost on my soul

Are you saying that being a gunowner is causing damage to my soul? I have never heard of that. I've heard that when people shoot people it will always affect the people psychologically. and even hardened trained soldiers get ptsd. It changes you to shoot someone and I dont want to have to experience that especially since I know that our fight is not against flesh and bone but against principalities and evil spirits.

But that doesnt mean that arent nitwits out there who would try to harm others.

 

[Divide]

Interest in self-defense itself isn't violence but it can be an occasion to let some very sinful things enter your life and try to control it. I've seen enough of that first-hand.

Control what? Urges to go committ mayhem?! I'm sorry you don't live in a better neighbrohood and I'm not sure in what way you have been hurt but maybe you are right about yourself and should not own a gun? No offense but I dont have to think if I can control me weapons. I control them. They do not control me?

You've seen it first hand you say. So can you please tell us what these sinful things are and the difficulties that you have had or witnessed with trying to control them? First hand he said!

Now we'll get it from the horses mouth.

 

[Divide]

self defense is not living by the sword. Living by the sword are the people that are quick to turn to violence living by the sword is not self defense or defense of others. There is a BIG difference. Most people with guns do not want to kill anyone; in fact there are case where a good guy with a gun dies because he waits too long. Now, are there also good guys with guns who act too quickly when threatened yes, but I can promise you that even those people do not usually go around looking for trouble.

You sure got that right. When 2 big guys were going to strong arm me & my wife I had my 1911 45 on me. That is a big responsibility and so I was thinking and I was a step ahead. The only problem was, the bigger guy was inching closer to suckerpunch me and I felt it about to come my way and I got my hand on my pistol ahead of him and so he wasnt inching closer anymore, lol. In fact I think he wanted to be friends at that point, Lol! The 2nd guy when I grabbed my pistol he like, fell down on the ground to a sitting position. I took my wifes arm and we ran off up the street and when we stopped running I realized that I was shaking all over. I was vibrating from the high dose of adreniline! If you carry a gun...you have to pay attention to whats happening around you! My gun never left the holster. I won but for a moment there I thought I might have to shoot them both. I kept giving up ground when he would inch closer until I was standing on the curb. And so when my right heel hit the street I took a drawing grip! Say what?! We All Friends Here!

 

[YorkieGal]

Wealthy LA father pulled a gun on masked home intruders

A Los Angeles father pulled a gun on two masked intruders who tried to break into his Mid-City home on Saturday night. The suspects got away, and the LAPD are investigating the incident.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[Derf]

Speaking from a biblical perspective this is my viewpoint on the gun debate. Christians should be for gun rights. Why? Because guns are used for hunting and the Bible justifies hunting. Even if you're a Christian pacifist you've got to admit that guns are used for hunting. So if for no other reason Christians should be for gun rights because guns are used for hunting.

Guns were instrumental in forming our country when the government at the time became lawless. The 2nd amendment says NOTHING about hunting. Its purpose is to allow the citizenry to fight off a tyrannical government that the articles of the constitution aren't able to regulate sufficiently.

If we as Christians are supposed to follow the righteous laws of whatever country we are in, then we should also support the laws that suppress the evil of said government.

We do that by bearing arms (guns, swords, etc.) appropriately, I.e. taking them up against unrighteous leaders, but not willy-nilly, nor as vigilantes, and AFTER other less forceful means are found to be ineffective.

 

[Aldebaran]

Those types of guns don't belong in the hands of civilians in the first place.

The Supreme Court has ruled otherwise, and nobody is above--or below--the law.

 

[Aldebaran]

An AR-15 isn't a "personal defense weapon". It's a military assault rifle sold to civilians, with minimal adaptations.

If that's what you believe, try learning from those who actually know better:

 

[Divide]

Wealthy LA father pulled a gun on masked home intruders

A Los Angeles father pulled a gun on two masked intruders who tried to break into his Mid-City home on Saturday night. The suspects got away, and the LAPD are investigating the incident.

www.dailymail.co.uk

He isnt sure if he shot either one of them. But he fired from inside his garage towards the street. So all he has to do is to go across the street and count bullet holes compared to shots fired. Then he will know how man times he hit them.

I like that account. The man was in a transitional space which is the most dangerous many times. He should have seen the man sooner, but he still did ok.

Uh-oh. Do you think this guy is one of those gun-kooks they been talking about?! Or just someone who wants to survive. Lucky for him they were only punk kids and not hardened adults. I dont think a hardened adult would have let him draw his gun, even with hot tea in the face. He got lucky.

 

[Divide]

If that's what you believe, try learning from those who actually know better:

My friend has a .450 Bushmaster upper and I did get to shoot it. I like it and the ballistics and everything about it. It's a straight walled cartridge so is legal for hunting. And shoots a 250 gr bullet at about 2200 fps. Thats the same weight bullet as a 44 Mag but quite a bit faster, so that is an interesting round indeed. I might need a 450 upper, lol.

When one gets into this class of cartridge it wont matter too much if they are behind a tree. Unless it is a big tree. (I shot a lot of trees in my lifetime and with 44 Mags. SO I have a real good feel for knowing what to expect. And...I expect the 450 to do qute a bit better than a 44 Mag because of the velocities acheived.

 

[Divide]

An AR-15 isn't a "personal defense weapon". It's a military assault rifle sold to civilians, with minimal adaptations.

Do you know what you are talking about factually and not opinionated?

FYI, the AR15 was invented first. Then it was adapted for military use. A small mistake. Just trying to help.