Christian Viewpoint On The Gun Debate

[FireDragon76]

Then what should have prevented him from having guns as a firearm instructor and a former military person?

Those types of guns don't belong in the hands of civilians in the first place.

 

[FenderTL5]

According to a 2013 report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, almost every major study on the issue has found that Americans use their firearms in self-defense between 500,000 and 3 million times a year.

The link does not support the claim.

 

[FireDragon76]

Do you mean Personal Defense Weapons?

An AR-15 isn't a "personal defense weapon". It's a military assault rifle sold to civilians, with minimal adaptations.

 

[FenderTL5]

Yep - the link is messed up, explained here: not my claim, it is CDC data you can go to the CDC site and look it up for yourself.

fwiw, I did. I searchd the CDC site and it's not there.
I did find numerous references to it on pro-gun blogs/sites.

Only three "news " sources made reference to it (in my search results). All three called it questionable. One (Fox News of all sources) quotesthat it was debunked, even by it's own author. Although the thrust of the article is pro-gun and critical of the CDC for removing it..
"And while that very small study by Gary Kleck has been debunked repeatedly by everyone from all sides of this issue [even Kleck] it still remains canon by gun rights folks and their supporting politicians and is used as a blunt instrument against gun safety regulations every time there is a state or federal level hearing," Bryant's email continued. "Put simply, in the time that study has been published as ‘a CDC Study’ gun violence prevention policy has ground to a halt, in no small part because of the misinformation that small study provided."

 

[dogs4thewin]

An AR-15 isn't a "personal defense weapon". It's a military assault rifle sold to civilians, with minimal adaptations.

What the heck is an assault weapon? It does not work by itself and civilian versions do not have the burst where it shoots three at a time. Also, if those guns kill fewer people how many lives would regulating them actually save at this point? Remember, the guns that take the most lives by body count ARE the ones that are already more regulated . We want to save lives that is good, but does it make more sense to save many lives or fewer lives because ARS and "assault weapons" take FAR fewer lives overall hand handguns which A are more heavily regulated and B have the fewest people interested in stricter regulations, yet by body count they would make the most sense to try and ban.

 

[Divide]

A big question is whose side will the military be on? I can promise you that many serve members and veterans would serve with civilians.

Praise the Lord for that! It would still e rough though because with all their new tools and tech stuff they can do more with less. But there is not any reson to fear them, they're still men. And the power of the Lord has already overcome the world.

John 16:
33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.../KJV

 

[Divide]

The AR-15 is old news, most are switching over to AR-10, FAL, PCC, Tavor etc ............. now this might be considered an Assault Weapon someday:

Sig Sauer Develops Quadcopter Drones Armed with Pistols: Innovation in the Small Arms Space

Sig Sauer, a leading firearms company, has unveiled two prototype quadcopter drones equipped with unmodified pistols, according to reports. The company...

ts2.shop

.

Those are super cool! A drone with a camera that you can attach a pistol to! What will they think of next. I'd like to have one! Prolly too expensive, lol.

 

[FireDragon76]

You must not live in the US then.

I am a US citizen and have lived in the continental US most of my life. I have lived in the American Pacific (Guam) and in Europe, but most of my life has been lived in the southern US.

Because burglars entering homes many many of them routinely hurt and kill (usually unarmed) homeowners who confront them.

Shooting burglars is a relatively small percentage of gun violence. More common are firearm accidents, people using guns impulsively to kill other people or themselves, or using guns in the commission of crime.

Also, it's not true that burglars routinely enter occupied homes. Most burglars seek to avoid occupied homes, for obvious reasons.

WHat you said is patently false in every state. So the guy who was a firearms instructor went crazy and killed some people, and you want to make that significant towards all the other law abiding people who do not go around shooting up the town? That's absurd.

I minored in psychology in college. Breaking down something as complex as the motivations for human behavior into simplistic, essentializing categories like "criminal" and "Law abiding" is not a sign of an intelligent, well-thought out approach to public policy.

I'm a long time gun guy. I grew up with them. Are you implying that I am dangerous because a different gun guy went crazy? (Can you hear yourself?!).

I notice a tendency for some gun owners to take questions of public gun policy personally, which I find strange if we are merely discussing "tools".

 

[SeventhFisherofMen]

This is defiantly an Assault Weapon, it is used to assault bee's nests:

View attachment 338918

oof imagine seeing a drone pull up near you and you're all "hey it's a drone" and then you're covered in fire. That is so scary that while it's just theoretical and some might find the image slightly funny if it actually happened that would be horrible

 

[Divide]

Shooting burglars is a relatively small percentage of gun violence. More common are firearm accidents, people using guns impulsively to kill other people or themselves, or using guns in the commission of crime.

Also, it's not true that burglars routinely enter occupied homes. Most burglars seek to avoid occupied homes, for obvious reasons.

Why would you dismiss and downplay a good use of gun. A homeowner gets burgled and comes out with a gun and shoots the burglar. Good guys 1, criminals 0.
But you say firearms accidents are much more common. (Uhh, maybe in your neighbrohood!) I raised two sons with loaded guns all over the house. Did anyone ever impulsively shoot one another over anything? No. No suicides, no guns n the commission of a crime. So my experience certainly does not mirror your experience.

I didnt say that burglars routinely enter occupied homes. I said some of them will routinely hurt or kill the occupants of the home. So it seems that there are two types of burglars. One who isnt there to kill and some who just dont care if they hurt anyone. With the price of food now, B&E's are the rise. If someone gets in my house shoud I go all philosophical on him and consider his motivations? No sir, that is a bad plan. First things first. as of right now, he is in my house and that situation must be dealt with in a timely fashion.

I minored in psychology in college. Breaking down something as complex as the motivations for human behavior into simplistic, essentializing categories like "criminal" and "Law abiding" is not a sign of an intelligent, well-thought out approach to public policy.

We have a comedian with us today folks! So if I get a burglar armed or unarmed, it is not intelligent to recognize him as a criminal? How simplistic can you get? A strange man is in my home, but he might not be a criminal? That is a very absurd notion. You make me glad I didnt go to college for if I had I may just think like you do. That would be scary.

I notice a tendency for some gun owners to take questions of public gun policy personally, which I find strange if we are merely discussing "tools".

But you want me to blindly accept public gun policy. Their public gun policies are stupid and dont protect me one whit. But that's ok, I can protect myself and no, it isnt up to them if I own a gun or not. But lets face it, I am law abiding citizen and want to be a law abiding citizen. But if I have my choice between being law abiding or protecting myself or family, I'll choose protecting my family every time.

They dont have to worry about me, I do not spread mayhem. So I wont be on their radar. Now they have a chance to correct their public gun policy and actually lock the criminals up, then I could easily become law abiding again.

Or if they have ill intent towards the citizens maybe they will push a horrible situation towards a citizen and spark a gunfight?

 

[Divide]

I notice a tendency for some gun owners to take questions of public gun policy personally, which I find strange if we are merely discussing "tools".

It would affect me personally so why wouldnt I take it personally? They want me to not own any "tools" and I say, why? What have I done that I can not be trusted with "tools?"

I dont have any warrants. I dont have any record to speak of (Lots of speeding tickets when I younger) so who is my victims that I should not be allowed "tools" anymore? I've never even had a single DUI. Never. SO on what basis can they try to take my "tools" from me?

AHould the elderly lady who lives alone and has an old rusty .38 consider the gun policies and turn it in? You would do that to her?!!!

 

[Divide]

I minored in psychology in college. Breaking down something as complex as the motivations for human behavior into simplistic, essentializing categories like "criminal" and "Law abiding" is not a sign of an intelligent, well-thought out approach to public policy.

Did they take your heart too? Besides, I did think out the best approach to gun policy. Since Police have no duty to protect the individual citizen, I have to protect my own right to protect my own family and myself. That means taking a stand on what I believe to be the best course of action and even hiding my "tools" from them. But you see, I've realized that if it is time to bury the "tools" then it is time to dig up the "tools"

But psychology wont let you realize that this is a dangerous planet or what?
Why do the want my "tool?"
If I give up my gun, will they give up theirs?
No?
I'm sorry, count me in with the criminals then.
I dont trust them or their policies.

 

[Akjv]

What guns were available in the first century?

Answer - none - you cannot find reference in scripture to the use of something that did not exist.

As for Hunting -

Acts 10:10 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”​

​

Yup - God was telling him to hunt his food and eat it!

Look here - where Peter recounts it.

Acts 11: Now the apostles and brethren who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God. 2 And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those of the circumcision contended with him, 3 saying, “You went in to uncircumcised men and ate with them!”​

​

4 But Peter explained it to them in order from the beginning, saying: 5 “I was in the city of Joppa praying; and in a trance I saw a vision, an object descending like a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came to me. 6 When I observed it intently and considered, I saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 7 And I heard a voice saying to me, ‘Rise, Peter; kill and eat.’​

​

That would be God Himself instructing Peter to hunt.


I could say the same thing about car ownership - more people die by cars than guns -

Would you agree with the following?

Don't get me wrong, I'm a car owner, but I'm curious how you would develop such an argument. By the way, I'm also for more car regulation. Many American citizens continue to show they are not responsible car owners. If we can't be responsible as a whole, then we need legislation to step in the gap. Cars and driving rights are not God-given. The Constitution is not gospel; it can be amended.

And before you go there - do you know how many people are out there driving with unregistered, uninsured cars?

God allowed weapons in the very beginning of man.

 

[YorkieGal]

I'm glad I'm already married but, if I weren't, I would be asking any prospective dates what their stance on guns were because I would not want to be with some guy who thinks counseling crazy people with love, as they attack, and making citizens impotent is how we survive or how we have survived for so long.

 

[Divide]

I am a US citizen and have lived in the continental US most of my life. I have lived in the American Pacific (Guam) and in Europe, but most of my life has been lived in the southern US.

Waitaminute here. You are very outspoken about gun control. So obviously, you dont own any guns yourself, right?

Southern US? No, I don't believe it. You cant spend most your time in the southern US and not learn to be a gun owner! That's just how America is. Southwest? Now I know it a lie?

You are a gun owner. I would like for you to admit that you own at least one gun. This is not to embarass you or call you a liar. This is only to show that you understand my point about protection in the US. We are on our own. You have people too, a family. You would stand up for them ina heartbeat.

You dont sound like a ninny or a man who would not defend his family. SO I think that those residuals left on you from the college and psychoanalyzing criminals makes you talk about it sometimes. You do a fair job of trying to tell me that I shouldnt own any guns. It's what you know. What you were taught.

But you are a closet gunowner. Admit it to us sir! Just an ace in the hole for if worst comes to worst. If you say you do not, then tell us the preparations that you have made and how you would handle a strange person who breaks into your house at night with the entire family at home?

Because if you have given so much time to considering that people should not own guns, and the world is the same dangerous place...what (gunless) plan did you come up with to protect your family? Riddle me that.

I know you have a gun or three stashed, you're an American!

 

[Divide]

An AR-15 isn't a "personal defense weapon". It's a military assault rifle sold to civilians, with minimal adaptations.

You need to catch up. The AR15 is a very fine personal defense weapon for the entire family. It's recoil is so low and most are adjustable length to the extent that it can be fitted to any member of the family. Thus the AR15 is a pool weapon for the family.

Young girls (and young boys) handle and shoot the AR15 just fine. The first time I shot an AR15 I was about 9 or 10 when my dad bought on. We could shoot that rifle good. I've bought more of them over the years because I have a decent eye for good weapons. I even have the equipment to load my own ammo for the Ar15 and that means many trips to the range to test my ammo. During those times Many younger ones have gone shooting with us and shot the AR15 to good effect.

So you must not be familiar with the AR15 platform if you think it is not a good personal defense weapon, Lol! It's one the best PDW that we can get in this day & age!

Are you a city boy who's never fired a gun?

 

[Divide]

I'm glad I'm already married but, if I weren't, I would be asking any prospective dates what their stance on guns were because I would not want to be with some guy who thinks counseling crazy people with love, as they attack, and making citizens impotent is how we survive or how we have survived for so long.

Amen Sister! Eons ago (lol) when I first met she who would be my Wife. Our first date was I took her shooting 22 rifles and we had fun! Then when she got pregnant, I was like, Uhh, I need to get the young lady a house, so I did and we moved into it together. That's when she saw the extent of my gun collection and knowing that a young one would soon be in the house, it scared her and she said...If one gun goes off in the house, all the guns are gone. I knew she was serious and I dont play with no Momma Bears, lol. And I knew immediately what I had to do. Since there is no safety in ignorance, I would have to teach my two sons to be safe with guns and respect them. (Even if I did get rid of all of them it wouldnt make it safe for them because I knew that one of the kids friends would pull out his dads 9mm from the sock drawer at some point, and they have to know how to react to stay safe. So I had to teach them to shoot.

I had those two boys at the range at 3 & 4 yrs old shooting a Ruger Super Bearcat with 22 shorts in it. One day, I'm going to the range! Wanna go? (To her), no I dont feel like it...

You have to go. We have two kids. When they first started shooting I basically encapsulated them with my arms and held the pistol. All they basically did was to pull the trigger. SO how am I supposed to watch two kids when one is shooting? I told her she has to go for the kids to be safe! Two kids, Two parents! I watch the one shooting and she must watch the one not shooting, Lol! That meant she had to learn to shoot also, Lol! That was genius lol.

It wasn't long before she got comfortable with guns and found out that she could shoot pretty darn well, so she wanted her own pistol pretty quick and I certainly obliged her. But nothing bad ever happened the proverbial if one gun goes off in the house I triumphed over I taught those kids so well.

I made a deal with the kids when they were pretty young. You can see any gun we have if you ask first and are also able to tell me what the 4 rules of gun safety are. (If you dont ask first, sorry Charley!) And they learned quickly to use this to their benefit at bedtime. We're out in the other room playing cards with friends and they are supposed to be going to bed...Dad can I play with a gun?! SOn, you dont play with guns because theyre dangerous, you "handle" guns safely. I tell you, I cant count how many times I stopped the card game to keep my promise to those kids. But it was something I had to do, we made the deal. So I'd ask which gun they want to handle and I'd take it in their bedroom and go through a big dramatic we gotta check to make sure there is no bullets in it so it is safe!! And I just hammered gun safety into those boys so everybody was always safe.

That's what gets me about anti-gun people. Weird. There's already too many guns out there to be able to give them all up. You not owning guns does not keep the children safe from guns. There is no safety in ignorance! What will the people who refuse to own guns around their Children...keep them safe from guns at their friends house that get pulled out?! Those kids are not safe from guns.

 

[YorkieGal]

Amen Sister! Eons ago (lol) when I first met she who would be my Wife. Our first date was I took her shooting 22 rifles and we had fun! Then when she got pregnant, I was like, Uhh, I need to get the young lady a house, so I did and we moved into it together. That's when she saw the extent of my gun collection and knowing that a young one would soon be in the house, it scared her and she said...If one gun goes off in the house, all the guns are gone. I knew she was serious and I dont play with no Momma Bears, lol. And I knew immediately what I had to do. Since there is no safety in ignorance, I would have to teach my two sons to be safe with guns and respect them. (Even if I did get rid of all of them it wouldnt make it safe for them because I knew that one of the kids friends would pull out his dads 9mm from the sock drawer at some point, and they have to know how to react to stay safe. So I had to teach them to shoot.

I had those two boys at the range at 3 & 4 yrs old shooting a Ruger Super Bearcat with 22 shorts in it. One day, I'm going to the range! Wanna go? (To her), no I dont feel like it...

You have to go. We have two kids. When they first started shooting I basically encapsulated them with my arm and held the pistol. All they basically did was to pull the trigger. SO how am I supposed to watch two kids when one is shooting? I told her she has to go for the kids to be safe! I watch the one shooting and she must watch the one not shooting, Lol! That meant she had to learn to shoot also, Lol! That was genius lol.

It wasn't long before she got comfortable with guns and found out that she could shoot pretty darn well, so she wanted her own pistol pretty quick and I certainly obliged her. But nothing bad ever happened the proverbial if one gun goes off in the house I triumphed over I taught those kids so well.

I made a deal with the kids when they were pretty young. You can see any gun we have if you ask first and are also able to tell me what the 4 rules of gun safety are. (If you dont ask first, sorry Charley!) And they learned quickly to use this to their benefit at bedtime. We're out in the other room playing cards with friends and they are supposed to be going to bed...Dad can I play with a gun?! SOn, you dont play with guns because theyre dangerous, you "handle" guns safely. I tell you, I cant count how many times I stopped the card game to keep my promise to those kids. But it was something I had to do, we made the deal. So I'd ask which gun they want to handle and I'd take it in their bedroom and go through a big dramatic we gotta check to make sure there is no bullets in it so it is safe!! And I just hammered gun safety into those boys so everybody was always safe.

That's what gets me about anti-gun people. Weird. There's already too many guns out there to be able to give them all up. You not owning guns does not keep the children safe from guns. There is no safety in ignorance! What will the people who refuse to own guns around their Children...keep them safe from guns at their friends house that get pulled out?! Those kids are not safe from guns.

Added to anti-gun people is the fact they can't fight with their hands, either. So, you have all these couch psychologists telling everyone else the world is beautiful because they never experience anything more scary than their living room wallpaper or their doorbell.

But I guarantee, if something happens, they scream the loudest.

Some of us are just built different. We are pro-active and offensive instead of reliant and defensive.

 

[public hermit]

*Gun worship*

Guns have become just one more idol with which Christians in the US can distract themselves. They're no longer seen as tools for food procurement or even self-defense. They've become one more essential for one's identity as a proper Christian. If I carve humanity into Gun-lovers and Gun-haters, as if those a proper predicates by which others are to be judged, then I have succumbed to a form of idolatry.

 

[YorkieGal]

*Gun worship*

Guns have become just one more idol with which Christians in the US can distract themselves. They're no longer seen as tools for food procurement or even self-defense. They've become one more essential for one's identity as a proper Christian. If I carve humanity into Gun-lovers and Gun-haters, as if that's a proper predicate by which others are to be judged, then I have succumbed to a form of idolatry.

Weirdest post of the day award goes to.........