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If there is such a thing as apostasy, then is there truly such a thing as an apostate?

timothyu

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That will give a clue or two as to what the faith is.
That is a later faith devised to describe a later following. It is one of many. If you go back to Jesus, faith was in the Father and His promise to return and take away rule from man. That is what attracted the oppressed, His original followers composed of women, servants and slaves.
 
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RileyG

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That is a later faith devised to describe a later following. It is one of many. If you go back to Jesus, faith was in the Father and His promise to return and take away rule from man. That is what attracted the oppressed, His original followers composed of women, servants and slaves.
You're right. However, the Nicene Creed was formulated to defend against heresy such as Arianism.
 
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timothyu

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You're right. However, the Nicene Creed was formulated to defend against heresy such as Arianism.
Yes of course, it is only natural to identify oneself in contrast to others. But what purpose does it serve the Father if it doesn't serve His will?
 
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RileyG

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Yes of course, it is only natural to identify oneself in contrast to others. But what purpose does it serve the Father if it doesn't serve His will?
Can you elaborate?

(There was no canon of Scripture for the first four centuries, the early Christians lived in a very oral culture where everything was passed down through word of mouth. Many other writings never made it into the NT Canon, such as the Shepherd of Hermas).
 
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timothyu

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(There was no canon of Scripture for the first four centuries
No there wasn't even though the books existed. The point is Christianity existed in it's original form 300 years earlier before man took it upon themselves to find a way to rejoin the world of man and the adversary. Remember when Jesus asked who do people say I am. There were multiple suggestions according to man, but only one truth which came from God alone and became the rock upon which His church was built. God's truth,not man's. Man later reversed that and the truths of man changed that rock to suit their will and not God's.
 
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ozso

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Those who claim to represent God cannot do so or be so by continuing in the self serving ways of man. Gentile Christianity reversed the teachings of Jesus and built their own kingdom built upon the foundation of truth from man, not God. Using God is not the same as doing His will.
Sorry bro but that just sounds like crazy talk.
 
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RileyG

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No there wasn't even though the books existed. The point is Christianity existed in it's original form 300 years earlier before man took it upon themselves to find a way to rejoin the world of man and the adversary. Remember when Jesus asked who do people say I am. There were multiple suggestions according to man, but only one truth which came from God alone and became the rock upon which His church was built. God's truth,not man's. Man later reversed that and the truths of man changed that rock to suit their will and not God's.
Jesus promised the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church (Matthew 16:18). How can man change that? But we are getting off topic now...
 
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timothyu

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Jesus promised the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church (Matthew 16:18). How can man change that?
Which it hasn't as God's truth remain in scripture, just not the churches that rejoined the world of man. His will remains he same and His followers are not of this world.
 
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timothyu

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But we are getting off topic now...
I don't see how. The subject is apostacy and that is what we are discussing. Just not in defence of a particular denomination but the rebellion and apostacy of the gentile church itself
 
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RileyG

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I don't see how. The subject is apostacy and that is what we are discussing. Just not in defence of a particular denomination but the rebellion and apostacy of the gentile church itself
You're correct. Any man or woman can rebel or go against the faith. My apologies.
 
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ozso

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No there wasn't even though the books existed. The point is Christianity existed in it's original form 300 years earlier before man took it upon themselves to find a way to rejoin the world of man and the adversary. Remember when Jesus asked who do people say I am. There were multiple suggestions according to man, but only one truth which came from God alone and became the rock upon which His church was built. God's truth,not man's. Man later reversed that and the truths of man changed that rock to suit their will and not God's.
You're just repeating trite cryptic babbling that sounds like something off a kooky website. That and the weird avatar makes it virtually impossible to take you seriously.
 
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timothyu

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Any man or woman can rebel or go against the faith.
Yes, and consider it took the Gentiles leading Christianity only 300 years to rejoin the Adversary. But that is no surprise as people of the world, save God's chosen, were considered people of the rebellious elohim that rule the world, Gentiles. Quite easy for them to take a movement and turn it back into something more familiar such as the governments of mankind. I doubt they could help themselves out of 'tradition', plus no desire to turn the reigns of rulership over to the Father.
 
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RileyG

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Yes, and consider it took the Gentiles leading Christianity only 300 years to rejoin the Adversary. But that is no surprise as people of the world, save God's chosen, were considered people of the rebellious elohim that rule the world, Gentiles. Quite easy for them to take a movement and turn it back into something more familiar such as the governments of mankind. I doubt they could help themselves out of 'tradition', plus no desire to turn the reigns of rulership over to the Father.
I'm not sure if I'm following you.
 
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timothyu

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You're just repeating trite cryptic babbling that sounds like something off a kooky website
That's what happens when people don't follow truth from the Father. It seems nonsense to them as the world has taught them to see through it's eyes rather than God's.
 
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ozso

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That's what happens when people don't follow truth from the Father. It seems nonsense to them as the world has taught them to see through it's eyes rather than God's.
Yeah I know that's what all those who do the cryptic mystic routine say.
 
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timothyu

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That's because it's gibberish.
Yes, the whole concept of God's will ahead of man's would seem gibberish to those who cannot imagine a world free of man's control. No more wars, no more governments, no more media, no more sin, no more disco.
 
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ozso

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Yes, the whole concept of God's will ahead of man's would seem gibberish to those who cannot imaging a world free of man's control. No more wars, no more governments, no more media, no more sin, no more disco.
No more disco?! :eek: No more 8-Track tapes and platform shoes too? No wonder this sounds so old.
 
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ozso

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The message is clear in the Lord's Prayer. His will be done, not ours.
You've probably made 20,000 post along these lines that haven't really said anything that most Christians don't already say. But coming from you it's supposed to somehow be new, and you're one of the few saying it like you're a prophet or whatever. 'The Counter Culture [sic] of the Kingdom' wooooooo. Counterculture is one word by the way.
 
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