If there is such a thing as apostasy, then is there truly such a thing as an apostate?

[Clare73]

Before criticizing me, how about first criticizing the 72 give or take scriptures about the Gospel of the Kingdom to which I refer

And don't forget about the other 13 gospels:

gospel of the kingdom (in Matthew, Mark),
gospel of the kingdom of heaven (in Matthew),
gospel of the kingdom of God in (Luke),
gospel of Jesus Christ (in Mark),
gospel of God (in Paul),
gospel of God's grace (in Paul),
gospel of Christ (in Paul),
gospel of our Lord (in Paul),
gospel of peace (in Paul),
gospel preached of me (in Paul),
good news (gospel) of the kingdom (in Matthew),
Christ's gospel (in Paul),
my gospel (in Paul),
our gospel (in Paul).

 

[Ceallaigh]

@Ordinary Christian perhaps this is a lesson about debating someone who is convinced that they are right no matter what you have to say.

Not really, since I don't get sore over forum debates.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Not really, since I don't get sore over forum debates.

Does anyone?

I get a few chuckles from most posts.

 

[timothyu]

And don't forget about the other 12 gospels:

Which of these were good news from the Father and goes back to the Garden?

 

[Clare73]

Which of these were good news from the Father and goes back to the Garden?

All of them.

 

[Ceallaigh]

All of them.

It's not like Paul takes it all back to the Garden of Eden... oh wait, yes he does.

 

[timothyu]

All of them.

Then why fragment rather than stick to the original Gospel of the Kingdom that God was returning to take away authourity from man over fellow man. That was the salvation.

 

[Dan Perez]

The dissenter, nonconformist, defector, deserter aspect would imply it is more a matter of you are not on our team and reject us controlling the narrative, therefore you are bad. Political, not spiritual.

The Greek word FALLING AWAY // APOSTASIA is found in 2 Thess 2:3 and in Acts 21:21 .

The Greek word APOSTASIA in 2 Thess 2:3 is in the NOMINATIVE CASE and is in the SINGULAR and that means it will happen one time ONLY .
In Acts 21:21 there appears the Greek word FORSAKE // APOSTASIA and is in the ACCUSATIVE CASE and is also in the SIGNULAR and here it means to depart from the YEACHING of the LAW OF MOSES .

I believe that APOSTASIA Means a DEPARTURE of the BODY OF CHRIST and does not means a FALLING AWAY from the FAITH , PERIOD

Because I believe OSAS , BECAUSE we are a part of Christ BODY , as we are Christ EYES , FEET , EARS , FEET , HIS SENSE OF SMELL in 1 Cor 13-24 .

Or explain verse 19 what that verse MEANS ?? just asking ??

dan p

 

[Clare73]

Then why fragment rather than stick to the original Gospel of the Kingdom that God was returning to take away authourity from man over fellow man. That was the salvation.

I'm not in charge of apostolic revelation, whose teaching Jesus said was authoritative to the church (Lk 10:16).
You'll have to ask the apostles. I just believe what they teach.

 

[timothyu]

I just believe what they teach.

How is what I said not what they taught?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Then why fragment rather than stick to the original Gospel of the Kingdom that God was returning to take away authourity from man over fellow man. That was the salvation.

Pretty much only the Gospel of the Kingdom sect sees it as fragmented.

 

[Clare73]

How is what I said not what they taught?

The NT presents the good news (gospel) as salvation from God's wrath (Ro 5:9), due to condemnation of the law,
by faith in and trust on the atoning work (blood, Ro 3:25) and person of Jesus Christ for the remission of one's sin/condemnation and reconciliation to God.

Everything else is a part/result of that good news (gospel).

 

[timothyu]

Everything else is a part/result of that good news (gospel).

Jesus said the good news was the good news of the Kingdom of God, coming to take away authourity of man over fellow man. Life as we know it would be reversed. See Sermon on the Mount. What you speak of was part of that , not the other way around. But your way taught as the main principle today and for centuries, conveniently leaves out the Kingdom, which serves not God but the Adversary in doing so, because the Adversary has no place or control in the Kingdom. He wants to divert truth and keep us with feet planted in the world, not Kingdom. He wants to divert truth. The Adversary manipulates, even religion. We saw the prime example of that when the newly institutionalized and human sanctioned church rejected the Kingdom to rejoin the world of man 1700 years ago. Before that there was no need of official doctrine. It was already simply truth from God as Jesus once said. No need for human intervention with minds trained by the world to defend itself and assist in the diversions.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Jesus said the good news was the good news of the Kingdom of God, coming to take away authourity of man over fellow man. Life as we know it would be reversed. See Sermon on the Mount. What you speak of was part of that , not the other way around. But your way taught as the main principle today and for centuries, conveniently leaves out the Kingdom, which serves not God but the Adversary in doing so, because the Adversary has no place or control in the Kingdom. He wants to divert truth and keep us with feet planted in the world, not Kingdom. He wants to divert truth. The Adversary manipulates, even religion. We saw the prime example of that when the newly institutionalized and human sanctioned church rejected the Kingdom to rejoin the world of man 1700 years ago. Before that there was no need of official doctrine. It was already simply truth from God as Jesus once said. No need for human intervention with minds trained by the world to defend itself and assist in the diversions.

What does that have to do with the 'there are two gospels' claim, since "both' were written way before 300?

 

[timothyu]

Christianity happened way before 300. It fell apart at 300 rejoining the world of man leaving it up to each of us to find the true gospel plainly written in scripture, not in the human church built on their own truths. However yes there were differing ideas of good news after Jesus' original, the Kingdom Gospel. It was the gentile church that turned focus away from the Kingdom and towards a differing gospel that was only part of the Kingdom Gospel, but not the whole. The rebellious gentiles focused on the grace way taught as the main principle today and for centuries as it didn't convict them for their rebellious act. Their partial gospel focused on the afterlife rather than change/repentance required while still here, conveniently leaving out the Kingdom while allowing sin to continue here.

What does that have to do with the 'there are two gospels' claim, since "both' were written way before 300?

 

[Ceallaigh]

Christianity happened way before 300. It fell apart at 300 rejoining the world of man leaving it up to each of us to find the true gospel plainly written in scripture, not in the human church built on their own truths. However yes there were differing ideas of good news after Jesus' original, the Kingdom Gospel. It was the gentile church that turned focus away from the Kingdom and towards a differing gospel that was only part of the Kingdom Gospel, but not the whole. The rebellious gentiles focused on the grace way taught as the main principle today and for centuries as it didn't convict them for their rebellious act. Their partial gospel focused on the afterlife rather than change/repentance required while still here, conveniently leaving out the Kingdom while allowing sin to continue here.

It sounds like you're denouncing free grace. Pejoratively called cheap grace and easy believism. Free grace mostly only exists within evangelicalism and didn't take place until after the protestant reformation which occurred in 1517. Whereas most of Christianity has always taught what you've described above.

 

[timothyu]

It sounds like you're denouncing free grace.

Not at all. It is the gift of the Kingdom. But it is not the focal point human religion has made it while trying to sidestep the fact man is out of control and not the power and authourity it thinks it is

 

[Ceallaigh]

Not at all. It is the gift of the Kingdom. But it is not the focal point human religion has made it while trying to sidestep the fact man is out of control and not the power and authourity it thinks it is

Come to think of it, it sounds more like you're describing carnal-christianity.

 

[timothyu]

carnal-christianity

No idea. All I'm saying is there are those who still think by way of the flesh and those in a minority who are of an opposing nature. Those of the Kingdom focus on others while those of the flesh focus on self. Which would you describe Jesus' original movement as?

 

[Ceallaigh]

No idea. All I'm saying is there are those who still think by way of the flesh and those in a minority who are of an opposing nature. Those of the Kingdom focus on others while those of the flesh focus on self. Which would you describe Jesus' original movement as?

Yeah that looks like the usual most Christians are living in sin complaint, with the spin of writing "Kingdom" in most every post. And you're one of the few who's faithful to the Kingdom and you're on a mission to evangelize other Christians. But you're so cryptic most of the time, you're basically unintelligible.