Excluding Farmer's Market Vendor for Refusing to Host Same-Sex Weddings

[KCfromNC]

Your the one who said they won't bake cakes for gay people. No qualifiers no explanations etc. Just flat out claims that they won't bake cakes period. Which you know to be a falsehood.

I know there's a desperate attempt to show that the businesses in question not discriminating in every transaction means there's no discrimination in the cases where a business does refuse service based on the orientation of the customer. But I'm not the one at fault for pointing out the failures of such attempts.

Please, if you want to address that try to do it without the retreat to personal attacks. It'll be much easier to think there's a reasonable point in them.

Traits? What traits do gay people have?

They're attracted to the same sex. I mean, really, you're attempting to enter into a conversation about discrimination against gay people and don't know what differentiates gay people from non-gay people? It's getting harder and harder to take these sort of posts seriously.

 

[KCfromNC]

Do you expect that every single way a person could sin be listed in every scripture about sin?

I appreciate how quickly the claims that there was plain, obvious scripture telling bakers not to bake cakes for gay people have changed to something which needed to be interpreted. Kinda proves my point from earlier in the thread about the parallels with scripture used to justify racial discrimination.

Thou shalt not commit adultery,

With your sister in law, your neighbors your employer, your coworker etc and nauseum.

How do you know they are ignoring other customers who sin?

Is there any widespread legal push for bakers to refuse to sell cakes to adulterers, people who cheat on their taxes or people who have been married before? Seems the complete lack of attention to any other sin other than the one the far-right is hyperfocused on in gay people is quite telling about the real reason for the discrimination in question.

Lets face it, you don't believe homosexual sex is a work of darkness. That's fine, you don't have to. You can make cakes and celebrate whatever you want to. You don't believe in sin period. So it doesn't matter.

Some might thing that allowing businesses to discriminate does matter, given how poorly that worked out in the past.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Hmmm... didn't answer the question. Is murder a thing now? The claim that that not baking cakes will become a thing. Perhaps you should let him answer the question. Has it become a thing?

Cake discrimination has become rampant, and minorities are suffering greatly because of it. It's like Marie Antoinette's "let them eat cake" in reverse.

 

[RileyG]

Interesting assertion. Too bad it runs counter to the facts.

But now I'm curious - has this defense actually been tried in court? I get we hear it parroted here a bunch, but was any lawyer actually brave enough to try to convince a judge that this is the case.

Because if not, I think that says a lot about the veracity of the claim.

Nope. The wedding service, baking a cake, has been denied. Not because of anyone's orientation.

 

[KCfromNC]

Nope. The wedding service, baking a cake, has been denied. Not because of anyone's orientation.

Is there actually a case where a baker was asked to bake a cake during a wedding service? Because this sounds made up to me.

The examples I've heard of was of a customer visiting a business, wanting to buy a cake that was available to any other customer only to be refused service once the business owner learned they were gay.

But if there's actual cases where a customer demanded that the baker show up at the wedding service I'd love to hear about it.

 

[RileyG]

Is there actually a case where a baker was asked to bake a cake during a wedding service? Because this sounds made up to me.

The examples I've heard of was of a customer visiting a business, wanting to buy a cake that was available to any other customer only to be refused service once the business owner learned they were gay.

But if there's actual cases where a customer demanded that the baker show up at the wedding service I'd love to hear about it.

Baking a cake for the wedding, not during the service, which I meant. It has nothing to deny them because of their orientation, it's because they do not want to endorse an event they believe is wrong.

 

[Pommer]

Baking a cake for the wedding, not during the service, which I meant. It has nothing to deny them because of their orientation, it's because they do not want to endorse an event they believe is wrong.

Being paid to produce who one usually produces is not an “endorsement”; the baker could even put in the contract that the customers aren’t allowed to say who baked, decorated and set up the cake at the “event”.

 

[RileyG]

Being paid to produce who one usually produces is not an “endorsement”; the baker could even put in the contract that the customers aren’t allowed to say who baked, decorated and set up the cake at the “event”.

I disagree, using time and talent makes it an endorsement.

 

[Pommer]

I disagree, using time and talent makes it an endorsement.

Does this apply to only bakers and artisans, or could, say, a heart surgeon pick and choose patients based on what events those patients have chosen to throw?

 

[KCfromNC]

Baking a cake for the wedding, not during the service, which I meant. It has nothing to deny them because of their orientation, it's because they do not want to endorse an event they believe is wrong.

Really? I thought the bakers in question baked wedding cakes all the time. What made the request different was the orientation of the customer asking.

 

[KCfromNC]

Does this apply to only bakers and artisans, or could, say, a heart surgeon pick and choose patients based on what events those patients have chosen to throw?

Same-Sex Couple Blames Discrimination After Pediatrician Allegedly Refuses to See Their Newborn

“It was embarrassing, it was humiliating,” Michigan spouse says.

abcnews.go.com

Jami and Krista Contreras of Oak Park, Michigan, welcomed their daughter, Bay, four months ago. Six days after Bay was born, the couple took the infant to a pediatrician, Dr. Vesna Roi, they had chosen after an earlier prenatal visit with the doctor, the couple’s attorney, Dana Nessel, told ABC News.​

But after they arrived in the waiting room at Eastlake Pediatrics in Roseville, Michigan, Roi’s colleague came out to meet the family and told them that after “praying on it,” Roi had decided she couldn’t care for Bay, Nessel said.​

​

Seems it would be even easier to deny service to an adult. After all, they're way more likely than a toddler to intentionally end up at a gay wedding, and endorsing that sort of thing by not letting the attendee die would certainly show support for the event. An event which, if we've learned anything here, would risk the doctor's religious freedom.

 

[Belk]

Baking a cake for the wedding, not during the service, which I meant. It has nothing to deny them because of their orientation, it's because they do not want to endorse an event they believe is wrong.

Name the difference in the event other then the participants orientation?

 

[RileyG]

Name the difference in the event other then the participants orientation?

The same-sex wedding is what the baker opposes to. They believe it's wrong.

 

[RileyG]

Really? I thought the bakers in question baked wedding cakes all the time. What made the request different was the orientation of the customer asking.

Not the orientation, the event- the wedding- was the event the baker was opposed to.

 

[KCfromNC]

Name the difference in the event other then the participants orientation?

One is a current target of far right demonization to distract voters into voting against their own economic interests?

 

[Belk]

The same-sex wedding is what the baker opposes to. They believe it's wrong.

So you have stated repeatedly. What is the difference in a same sex wedding from a straight wedding other the the orientation of the participants?

 

[KCfromNC]

Not the orientation, the event- the wedding- was the event the baker was opposed to.

Pretty sure the bakers make a bunch of cakes for the event of weddings. It has to be something else. Wonder what ever it could be?

 

[RileyG]

So you have stated repeatedly. What is the difference in a same sex wedding from a straight wedding other the the orientation of the participants?

Some Christians (and Muslims, and Jews) find same-sex weddings sinful where as nearly all Christians are not opposed to straight weddings. They think it's wrong to use their talents for an event they find morally wrong.

 

[RileyG]

One is a current target of far right demonization to distract voters into voting against their own economic interests?

No one is being targeted. Just because someone refuses to bake a cake for a same-sex couple doesn't mean they are being targeted.

 

[Belk]

Some Christians (and Muslims, and Jews) find same-sex weddings sinful where as nearly all Christians are not opposed to straight weddings. They think it's wrong to use their talents for an event they find morally wrong.

That does not answer my question. What is the difference in a same sex wedding from a straight wedding other the the orientation of the participants?