Annihilation=No Wrath

[Diamond72]

Can you show us where any of this is in the Bible?

I thought it came from Dante's book.

 

[Diamond72]

The wicked, the liars, the unclean, the idolators - not one is in heaven nor in the life to come , according to Yahweh's Word.

There will be a new heaven and a new earth. They will be thrown into the Lake of Fire which is the second death. Nothing is said about what this means other than there are 50 or 60 scriptures that talk about total, complete annihilation. I suppose they will become as if they never were. One-third will be saved 2/3 will perish. Jesus uses the words: few and many.

Zechariah 13:9 This third I will put into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are my people,’ and they will say, ‘The LORD is our God.’”

 

[Aaron112]

One-third will be saved 2/3 will perish. Jesus uses the words: few and many.

Clearly not one-third (no, not nearly) of people on earth... rather as written:


"13 “On the Big Day, a fountain will be opened for the family of David and all the leaders of Jerusalem for washing away their sins, for scrubbing their stained and soiled lives clean.

2-3 “On the Big Day”—this is God-of-the-Angel-Armies speaking—“I will wipe out the store-bought gods, erase their names from memory. People will forget they ever heard of them. And I’ll get rid of the prophets who polluted the air with their diseased words. If anyone dares persist in spreading diseased, polluting words, his very own parents will step in and say, ‘That’s it! You’re finished! Your lies about God put everyone in danger,’ and then they’ll stab him to death in the very act of prophesying lies about God—his own parents, mind you!

4-6 “On the Big Day, the lying prophets will be publicly exposed and humiliated.

Then they’ll wish they’d never swindled people with their ‘visions.’

No more masquerading in prophet clothes.

But they’ll deny they’ve even heard of such things:

‘Me, a prophet? Not me. I’m a farmer—grew up on the farm.’ And if someone says, ‘And so where did you get that black eye?’ they’ll say, ‘I ran into a door at a friend’s house.’

 

[Der Alte]

I thought it came from Dante's book.

That's about what I thought, definitely not the Bible.

 

[Diamond72]

That's about what I thought, definitely not the Bible.

I did a study on that. The Bible says 50 or 60 times that sinners will be destoryed. Hell is mentioned five or six times.

 

[Der Alte]

I did a study on that. The Bible says 50 or 60 times that sinners will be destoryed. Hell is mentioned five or six times.

I don't think so. There is one vs. which says ,

Matthew 10:28
(28) And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.​

And Jesus, Himself, said that the unrighteous go away into everlasting punishment.

Matthew 25:45-46
(45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
(46) And these [on the left vs. 44]shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.​

Jesus is quoted as saying "death" 17 times. when Jesus meant death He said death not "punishment."

 

[Diamond72]

I don't think so.

Don't think so what? The word destory is used 92 times in the NT alone.

 

[Der Alte]

Don't think so what? The word destory is used 92 times in the NT alone.

Show me any vs. in the N.T. which states that sinners will be destroyed? Don't forget Matt 25:46.

 

[Diamond72]

Show me any vs. in the N.T. which states that sinners will be destroyed? Don't forget Matt 25:46.

Matthew 1-:28 "be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."

Matthew 25:6 talks about everlasting punishment. We are temporal, but the punishment is eternal.

Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.

Your stance on the Second Death: Annihilationism or Eternal Torture?

 

[Der Alte]

Matthew 1-:28 "be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
Matthew 25:6 talks about everlasting punishment. We are temporal, but the punishment is eternal.
Revelation 20:14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
Your stance on the Second Death: Annihilationism or Eternal Torture?

Re: Matt 1:28 What God created He can certainly destroy but there is no vs. which states that God has or will destroy even one soul in hell or anywhere else.
I'm still waiting for you to address Matt 25:46. Jesus is quoted as saying "death" 17 times, when He meant death He said death not punishment.
FYI the word "destroy" only occurs 52 times in the NT, not 92 times.
Rev 20:14 death is the point in time end of life it has no physical presence and cannot be literally thrown anywhere, it has no life therefore cannot be killed. Since it cannot die it certainly cannot die a second time. Hell has no life thus cannot die once or twice.
Matt 25:6 says nothing about death.

 

[Diamond72]

I'm still waiting for you to address Matt 25:46.

46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Eternal and everlasting are the same word. In Matthew four times he talks about eternal fire. Only once does he say "punishment" and that word is only used twice in the Bible. 1 John 4:18. There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

You can not build a doctrine on one verse that has little or no support in the Bible.

This looks like support for eternal separation for God if it were not a loner all by itself.

Isaiah 65:17 (NIV): "See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind."

I prayed if it was just to create someone for destruction or eternal torment. God impressed it upon me many times, maybe as many as 15 that HE is a God of absolute JUSTICE. His Justice is as perfectly balance as the universe.

Daniel 12:2
And many who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake, some to everlasting life, but others to shame and everlasting contempt.

John 5:29
and come out--those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment.

Exodus 32:10
Now leave Me alone, so that My anger may burn against them and consume them. Then I will make you into a great nation."

I always like to look to see what Moses says. Those passages tend to support annihilation. They will be no more, they will no longer exist. There seed will be cut off.

 

[Diamond72]

Show me any vs. in the N.T. which states that sinners will be destroyed?

They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His might (2 Thessalonians 1:9)

Christ's Coming
…8in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might, 10on the day He comes to be glorified in His saints and regarded with wonder by all who have believed, including you who have believed our testimony.…

 

[BurningBush84]

They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His might (2 Thessalonians 1:9)

Christ's Coming
…8in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might, 10on the day He comes to be glorified in His saints and regarded with wonder by all who have believed, including you who have believed our testimony.…

Eternity , eternal , destruction, have no meaning to the non existent. You cannot endure eternal destruction if you don't exist.

 

[Der Alte]

They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His might (2 Thessalonians 1:9)
Christ's Coming
…8in blazing fire, inflicting vengeance on those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. 9They will suffer the penalty of eternal destruction, separated from the presence of the Lord and the glory of His might, 10on the day He comes to be glorified in His saints and regarded with wonder by all who have believed, including you who have believed our testimony.…

That which is destroyed does not exist and is not "shut out" or "separate" from anything or anybody. I note you have not addressed the vss. I quoted where Jesus defined "aionios" as eternal. Matthew 25:45-46. John 3:15-16, Joh 10:28.

 

[Diamond72]

John 3:15-16

Whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

If you do not believe, then you do not have eternal life and you will perish. God does not tolerate ungodliness. Why would he allow the unrighteous to continue anywhere in creation? What do you think blotted out means? I think they will return to whatever state they were in before they existed here on Earth. God tells us He will remember no more.

I would rather be a universalist so that everyone gets saved. The Bible simply does not support universalism. The Bible says in a double negative that they will perish. I think it is interesting that one-third of the angels fell and now one-third of us ill be saved. That means 2/3 will perish with the angels.

Matthew 25 21
"Then He will say to those on His left,
'Depart from Me, you who are cursed,
into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.[

Just what do you think "perish" means? How do you define the word? What do you think it means to be blotted out?

 

[Diamond72]

That which is destroyed does not exist

Wind, rain or fire?

 

[Diamond72]

Eternity , eternal , destruction, have no meaning to the non existent. You cannot endure eternal destruction if you don't exist.

The destruction is eternal and everlasting. There is nothing to endure. I see NOTHING just about a person being tormented for all eternity because God was not pleased with them. God assured me many times, at least 15 that He is a God of absolute Justice. As exact and precise as the universe is.

 

[Der Alte]

The destruction is eternal and everlasting. There is nothing to endure. I see NOTHING just about a person being tormented for all eternity because God was not pleased with them. God assured me many times, at least 15 that He is a God of absolute Justice. As exact and precise as the universe is.

Personal "revelation" cannot contradict scripture.

 

[Der Alte]

Whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
If you do not believe, then you do not have eternal life and you will perish. God does not tolerate ungodliness. Why would he allow the unrighteous to continue anywhere in creation? What do you think blotted out means? I think they will return to whatever state they were in before they existed here on Earth. God tells us He will remember no more.
I would rather be a universalist so that everyone gets saved. The Bible simply does not support universalism. The Bible says in a double negative that they will perish. I think it is interesting that one-third of the angels fell and now one-third of us ill be saved. That means 2/3 will perish with the angels.
Matthew 25 21
"Then He will say to those on His left,
'Depart from Me, you who are cursed,
into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.[
Just what do you think "perish" means? How do you define the word? What do you think it means to be blotted out?

I have addressed this earlier and nobody has responded to my post. Jesus is quoted as saying death 17 times in the NT. He said death when He meant death NOT "everlasting punishment." Matt 25:46

 

[Der Alte]

Wind, rain or fire?

Non-responsive.