Do sacraments save?

[Jamdoc]

This what COL 2:12 means , Having been BURIED together with Him in the BAPTISMA and the translation is wrong and just look at the Greek text and all will see it is NOT the Greek word BAPTISM / BAPTISMO .

Rom 6:4 says that the HOLY SPRIT / BAPRISMA places all into his death .

BAPTISMA is used 22 times from MATTHEW , through 1 PETER 3:21 and BAPTISMA is the HOLY SPIRIT and not WATER BAPTISM , PERIOD .

dan p

I'd agree primarily but even if you take it to mean water baptism it's still supporting the Baptist definition of Baptism, which is full immersion believer's baptism, not sprinkling babies.

I figure if they're not going to be convinced that it's faith in Christ that saves but Baptism, they could at least follow the biblical pattern for Baptism which would get them saved in the process through belief at the start.

 

[RileyG]

The Didache, (the teachings of the Apostles) an ancient Church document from the first century, said it was fine using pouring for Baptism.

 

[Jamdoc]

Correct. Through Baptism God pours grace into the soul and washes away sin. It gives the person grace to believe. By sanctifying grace we are filled with the indwelling of the Holy Trinity. God dwells in us.

I believed before getting baptized.

 

[Jamdoc]

The Didache, (the teachings of the Apostles) an ancient Church document from the first century, said it was fine using pouring for Baptism.

Church tradition does not hold the same weight of authority as scripture and that's another mistake the RCC makes, one of the primary ones in fact.

 

[RileyG]

I believed before getting baptized.

That's fine. God is not bound by the Sacraments. I assume you were only baptized ONCE as an adult?

 

[RileyG]

Church tradition does not hold the same weight of authority as scripture and that's another mistake the RCC makes, one of the primary ones in fact.

I reject Sola Scriptura based on the history of the early Church. With all due respect, where do you think we got scripture from? It was all from oral tradition that was handed down until the Church decided which books were canonical. This is a complete different subject, and I am getting off topic.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Correct. Through Baptism God pours grace into the soul and washes away sin. It gives the person grace to believe. By sanctifying grace we are filled with the indwelling of the Holy Trinity. God dwells in us.

Thank you for affirming my post.

 

[Jamdoc]

That's fine. God is not bound by the Sacraments. I assume you were only baptized ONCE as an adult?

and here we get to another crime of the RCC. Burning Anabaptists at the stake for "rebaptizing" when they were practicing believer's baptism since they found the RCC's "baptism" unbiblical.

and.. there is biblical support of "rebaptism" if the first is felt to be invalid, and as far as I can remember, no scripture forbidding rebaptism, especially if the first wasn't really a baptism.

Acts 19

1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Basically, these people were baptized incorrectly, they didn't believe in Jesus, they hadn't really gotten John's teachings about Jesus coming after him. They were baptized for repentance of sin rather than hope in a savior. But their faith had to be in the savior.

However for my personal experience, not that I can remember. the church I was saved at did not have a baptismal. Maybe I got splashed with some water, I honestly don't remember, that was about 30 years ago.

 

[Jamdoc]

I reject Sola Scriptura based on the history of the early Church. With all due respect, where do you think we got scripture from? It was all from oral tradition that was handed down until the Church decided which books were canonical. This is a complete different subject, and I am getting off topic.

Scripture is the Inspired Word of God. traditions are the practices of men. They should not hold the same weight when it comes to doctrine.

it's not that much of a tangent at all since scripture should always be what we base our doctrines from.

 

[Valletta]

so why are all my family members not only non believers, but hold Jesus in contempt? They were baptized and raised Catholic.

Sadly, a secular movement took over much of the world, Catholics were no exception. So much of the Catholic faith was taught poorly or not at all.

 

[Jamdoc]

Sadly, a secular movement took over much of the world, Catholics were no exception. So much of the Catholic faith was taught poorly or not at all.

okay but you are holding that the physical act of baptism confers salvation and seals with the holy spirit.

 

[Valletta]

okay but you are holding that the physical act of baptism confers salvation and seals with the holy spirit.

Yes. Salvation is not a one time even. Men often fall. God continues to save us.
Mt 24:13 “He who endures to the end will be saved”

 

[bbbbbbb]

Thus, the salvific aspect of baptism, at its best, is temporary and, at its worst, is useless.

 

[FenderTL5]

Yes. Salvation is not a one time even. Men often fall. God continues to save us.
Mt 24:13 “He who endures to the end will be saved”

Agree.
Our hope is to be saved when our race is complete as the Apostle Paul taught.

 

[Dan Perez]

I'd agree primarily but even if you take it to mean water baptism it's still supporting the Baptist definition of Baptism, which is full immersion believer's baptism, not sprinkling babies.

I figure if they're not going to be convinced that it's faith in Christ that saves but Baptism, they could at least follow the biblical pattern for Baptism which would get them saved in the process through belief at the start.

Eph 4:5 reads , ONE / HEIS , ONE LORD , One FAITH , ONE / BAPTISMA .

Here it reads ONE / HEIS , BAPTISMA , and that means it called a BAPTIZER and that is the HOLY SPIRIT , and Acts 1:5 is just one of PROOF .

dan p

 

[RileyG]

Scripture is the Inspired Word of God. traditions are the practices of men. They should not hold the same weight when it comes to doctrine.

it's not that much of a tangent at all since scripture should always be what we base our doctrines from.

Scripture is part of tradition.

 

[RileyG]

and here we get to another crime of the RCC. Burning Anabaptists at the stake for "rebaptizing" when they were practicing believer's baptism since they found the RCC's "baptism" unbiblical.

and.. there is biblical support of "rebaptism" if the first is felt to be invalid, and as far as I can remember, no scripture forbidding rebaptism, especially if the first wasn't really a baptism.

Acts 19


Basically, these people were baptized incorrectly, they didn't believe in Jesus, they hadn't really gotten John's teachings about Jesus coming after him. They were baptized for repentance of sin rather than hope in a savior. But their faith had to be in the savior.

However for my personal experience, not that I can remember. the church I was saved at did not have a baptismal. Maybe I got splashed with some water, I honestly don't remember, that was about 30 years ago.

Oh no, I was just curious. Not debating with you or anything. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Valletta]

Jamdoc said:

and here we get to another crime of the RCC. Burning Anabaptists at the stake for "rebaptizing" when they were practicing believer's baptism since they found the RCC's "baptism" unbiblical.

This is not a thread for you to accuse the Catholic Church of crimes.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Point being, Baptism does not save.

For those with the level of faith that you are expressing here, it is doubtful that baptism will do much good, however for those who do baptize infants in good faith, their infant baptisms has already saved them.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I reject Sola Scriptura based on the history of the early Church. With all due respect, where do you think we got scripture from? It was all from oral tradition that was handed down until the Church decided which books were canonical. This is a complete different subject, and I am getting off topic.

While I hold steadfast to Sola Scriptura, I accept Holy Tradition in so far as those traditions that are neither forbidden by or conflicts with Scripture.