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BrotherJJ

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You’re not even engaging in the discussion. You said that the Galatians were never saved and now that I’ve pointed out Paul said that they had received the Holy Spirit you’re just running away from the discussion. Why can’t you just admit the truth? It’s right there in front of you. Paul told the foolish Galatians who had received the Holy Spirit by faith “you have been severed from Christ, you have fallen from faith”. You’ve seen this with your own eyes and you still refuse to admit it and accept it. You won’t even discuss it. Why do you want to just sweep it under the rug like it never existed? “Man does not live by bread alone but from every word that comes from God”. All I’m asking brother is that you just evaluate it. Galatians 5 isn’t the only evidence of loss of salvation. There’s tons more evidence, Galatians 5 is just the first piece of evidence I wanted to start the discussion with. I didn’t want to bombard the discussion with verse after verse because that accomplishes nothing if each verse isn’t carefully examined. I just wanted to post one piece of evidence and discuss it so that we could establish a conclusion. And it seems like right when we reached the conclusion you aren’t willing to accept it. Trust me I know exactly what that feels like. It took me 3 weeks of studying before I could finally accept it and I was very reluctant to. Ultimately when I was faced with the scriptures I really didn’t have much of a choice, I couldn’t deny what was written. I used to preach eternal security until I saw the truth. Don’t deny the truth brother it doesn’t help anyone. The word of God says what it says not what we want it to. There’s only one truth and it’s not subjective to whatever interpretation best suits us. Truth is truth whether we accept it or not.
Do yourself a favor, stop trying build a doctrine by applying verses (abide, endure, sever) of context.

And quit making false claims about what I've said.

Reread my reply in post #371, It shows how dishonest your post here is.

Your claim was in order to be severed, they HAD to be been saved. The 1st part of my reply proved that idea to be WRONG!

Severed SYNONYMS = detached - disconnected - separated

Every unbeliever (that has NEVER been a believer) is SEVERED/detached/disconnected/separated from God

Chapter 5 context is a chapter 4 continuation. Chapter 4 makes it clear law & grace don't/can't be mixed. Also,

Read the epistle leading up to Chapter 5. Mosaic Law zealots had showed up trying to put these believers under Mosaic law mandates.

Don't hi-jack vs 4 & build a doctrine, READ the 1st 3 verses. It's these Law zealots that are SEVERED/NEVER SAVED trying to indoctrinate these gentiles believers. Claiming they had to under-go circumcision (an OT/OC law mandate) as requirement of salvation.

Gal 5:4
1 It was for this freedom that Christ set us free [completely liberating us]; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery [which you once removed].
(MY NOTE: NT believers are under Gods liberating freedom > grace. Not under OT law demanded requirements/WORKS!)

2 Notice, it is I, Paul, who tells you that if you receive circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], Christ will be of no benefit to you [for you will lack the faith in Christ that is necessary for salvation].
(MY NOTE: Context here: If you applying circumcision (an OT/OC law mandate) as requirement of salvation. You lack FAITH & therefore are/remain in unbelief! Never saved!)

3 Once more I solemnly affirm to every man who receives circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], that he is under obligation and required to keep the whole Law.
(MY NOTE: Context making circumcision as a requirement for salvation. Places you under ALL the laws demanded works requirements)

4 You have been severed from Christ, if you seek to be justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing with God] through the Law; you have fallen from grace [for you have lost your grasp on God’s unmerited favor and blessing].

5 For we [not relying on the Law but] through the [strength and power of the Holy] Spirit, by faith, are waiting [confidently] for the hope of righteousness [the completion of our salvation].
(MY NOTE: Anyone trying to obtain salvation thru Mosaic law keeping. Doesn't grasp/understand the grace of God (accessed by faith) & therefore falls short of the superior blessings found via grace)
 
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BNR32FAN

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Do yourself a favor, stop trying build a doctrine by applying verses (abide, endure, sever) of context.

And quit making false claims about what I've said.

Reread my reply in post #371, It shows how dishonest your post here is.

Your claim was in order to be severed, they HAD to be been saved. The 1st part of my reply proved that idea to be WRONG!

Severed SYNONYMS = detached - disconnected - separated

Every unbeliever (that has NEVER been a believer) is SEVERED/detached/disconnected/separated from God

Chapter 5 context is a chapter 4 continuation. Chapter 4 makes it clear law & grace don't/can't be mixed. Also,

Read the epistle leading up to Chapter 5. Mosaic Law zealots had showed up trying to put these believers under Mosaic law mandates.

Don't hi-jack vs 4 & build a doctrine, READ the 1st 3 verses. It's these Law zealots that are SEVERED/NEVER SAVED trying to indoctrinate these gentiles believers. Claiming they had to under-go circumcision (an OT/OC law mandate) as requirement of salvation.

Gal 5:4
1 It was for this freedom that Christ set us free [completely liberating us]; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery [which you once removed].
(MY NOTE: NT believers are under Gods liberating freedom > grace. Not under OT law demanded requirements/WORKS!)

2 Notice, it is I, Paul, who tells you that if you receive circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], Christ will be of no benefit to you [for you will lack the faith in Christ that is necessary for salvation].
(MY NOTE: Context here: If you applying circumcision (an OT/OC law mandate) as requirement of salvation. You lack FAITH & therefore are/remain in unbelief! Never saved!)

3 Once more I solemnly affirm to every man who receives circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], that he is under obligation and required to keep the whole Law.
(MY NOTE: Context making circumcision as a requirement for salvation. Places you under ALL the laws demanded works requirements)

4 You have been severed from Christ, if you seek to be justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing with God] through the Law; you have fallen from grace [for you have lost your grasp on God’s unmerited favor and blessing].

5 For we [not relying on the Law but] through the [strength and power of the Holy] Spirit, by faith, are waiting [confidently] for the hope of righteousness [the completion of our salvation].
(MY NOTE: Anyone trying to obtain salvation thru Mosaic law keeping. Doesn't grasp/understand the grace of God (accessed by faith) & therefore falls short of the superior blessings found via grace)
You were running well who has hindered “you“ from obeying the truth. It was the Judaizers who were hindering them from obeying the truth. Every single time Paul uses the word “you” he is referring to the brethren of the church. Every time he mentions the Judaizers he refers to them as “they” or “them”

You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭1‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

They eagerly seek you, not commendably, but they wish to shut you out so that you will seek them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4‬:‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God. However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods. But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4‬:‭6‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Paul never once refers to the Judaizers as “you”. He always refers to them in the third person they, them, those, or some who, throughout the entire epistle.
 
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BrotherJJ

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You were running well who has hindered “you“ from obeying the truth. It was the Judaizers who were hindering them from obeying the truth. Every single time Paul uses the word “you” he is referring to the brethren of the church. Every time he mentions the Judaizers he refers to them as “they” or “them”

You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“I wish that those who are troubling you would even mutilate themselves.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭12‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭1‬:‭6‬-‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

They eagerly seek you, not commendably, but they wish to shut you out so that you will seek them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4‬:‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God. However at that time, when you did not know God, you were slaves to those which by nature are no gods. But now that you have come to know God, or rather to be known by God, how is it that you turn back again to the weak and worthless elemental things, to which you desire to be enslaved all over again? You observe days and months and seasons and years. I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4‬:‭6‬-‭11‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Paul never once refers to the Judaizers as “you”. He always refers to them in the third person they, them, those, or some who, throughout the entire epistle.
Scripture proclaims believers are RIGHT NOW FORVER SEALED by God via His Holy Spirit.

Scripture disagrees with your interpretation, actual Greek to English translators (below) disagree with your interpretation. It's now a hard choice (for me) who has it right. You have it wrong!

The Holy Spirit is the new covenant Seal/promise from Christ. His blood has purified the believer & takes away every one of there sins Past-Present-Future!

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: definition - SEAL
English "seal" = Greek "sphragizo" context as a verb - Strongs ref #4972
(d) ownership and security, three indications are conveyed in Ephesians 1:13 , in the metaphor of the "sealing" of believers by the gift of the Holy Spirit, upon believing (i.e., at the time of their regeneration, not after a lapse of time in their spiritual life, "having also believed," "after that ye believed;" the aorist (TENSE) participle marks the definiteness and completeness of the act of faith); the idea of destination is stressed by the phrase "the Holy Spirit of promise" (see also Ephesians 1:14 ); so Ephesians 4:30 , "ye were sealed unto the day of redemption;"

(MY NOTE: Vines translators define SEAL (Eph 1:13-4, 4:30) as: OWNERSHIP & SECURITY. Christ's FOREVER SEALING (Jn 14:16) GIFT (Acts 10:45, 11:17) of His indwelling Holy Spirit (Rom 8:11, 1Cor 3:16, 2 Tim 1:14). Given upon/at the moment Christ JUSTIFIES/seals (Rom 3:24-26) the believer, thru FAITH. Placed in the Lords sin atoning work. VINE's translators say: This SEAL (aorist TENSE participle) marks the definiteness & completeness of the act of faith. Jesus is the author & finisher of our faith (Heb 12:2)

Find here the verses Vines translators cite as applicable to the word: SEAL:

Eph 1:
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words - [ 1,,G728, arrabon ] (Noun) EARNEST:
originally, earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14, particularly of their eternal inheritance.

(MY NOTE: EARNEST denotes a DEVINE PLEDGE. The giving of the Holy Spirit as the DIVINE PLEDGE. An ASSURENCE given by God, of all their future blessedness, particularly of their ETERNAL LIFE inheritance. This promise read below: God HAS GIVEN/DONE DEAL!)

Find here the verses Vines translators cite as applicable to the word: EARNEST

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit

Eph 1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession

(MY NOTE: Christ's Holy Spirit, given to every believer at the moment of conversion/when the believer is SEALED. Is God's proof/guarantee of ownership & security. Christ's pledge/promise And He's completely trust worthy & proved it on the cross. That believers are a purchased (with His perpetually cleansing God blood sacrifice) possession & HAVE BEEN GIVEN/DONE DEAL/ETERNAL LIFE. If one can loose this GIFT (thru sinning/non-abiding WHATEVER) then it isn't ETERNAL. JJ
 
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BNR32FAN

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Scripture proclaims believers are RIGHT NOW FORVER SEALED by God via His Holy Spirit.

Scripture disagrees with your interpretation, actual Greek to English translators (below) disagree with your interpretation. It's now a hard choice (for me) who has it right. You have it wrong!

The Holy Spirit is the new covenant Seal/promise from Christ. His blood has purified the believer & takes away every one of there sins Past-Present-Future!

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: definition - SEAL
English "seal" = Greek "sphragizo" context as a verb - Strongs ref #4972
(d) ownership and security, three indications are conveyed in Ephesians 1:13 , in the metaphor of the "sealing" of believers by the gift of the Holy Spirit, upon believing (i.e., at the time of their regeneration, not after a lapse of time in their spiritual life, "having also believed," "after that ye believed;" the aorist (TENSE) participle marks the definiteness and completeness of the act of faith); the idea of destination is stressed by the phrase "the Holy Spirit of promise" (see also Ephesians 1:14 ); so Ephesians 4:30 , "ye were sealed unto the day of redemption;"

(MY NOTE: Vines translators define SEAL (Eph 1:13-4, 4:30) as: OWNERSHIP & SECURITY. Christ's FOREVER SEALING (Jn 14:16) GIFT (Acts 10:45, 11:17) of His indwelling Holy Spirit (Rom 8:11, 1Cor 3:16, 2 Tim 1:14). Given upon/at the moment Christ JUSTIFIES/seals (Rom 3:24-26) the believer, thru FAITH. Placed in the Lords sin atoning work. VINE's translators say: This SEAL (aorist TENSE participle) marks the definiteness & completeness of the act of faith. Jesus is the author & finisher of our faith (Heb 12:2)

Find here the verses Vines translators cite as applicable to the word: SEAL:

Eph 1:
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words - [ 1,,G728, arrabon ] (Noun) EARNEST:
originally, earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14, particularly of their eternal inheritance.

(MY NOTE: EARNEST denotes a DEVINE PLEDGE. The giving of the Holy Spirit as the DIVINE PLEDGE. An ASSURENCE given by God, of all their future blessedness, particularly of their ETERNAL LIFE inheritance. This promise read below: God HAS GIVEN/DONE DEAL!)

Find here the verses Vines translators cite as applicable to the word: EARNEST

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit

Eph 1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession

(MY NOTE: Christ's Holy Spirit, given to every believer at the moment of conversion/when the believer is SEALED. Is God's proof/guarantee of ownership & security. Christ's pledge/promise And He's completely trust worthy & proved it on the cross. That believers are a purchased (with His perpetually cleansing God blood sacrifice) possession & HAVE BEEN GIVEN/DONE DEAL/ETERNAL LIFE. If one can loose this GIFT (thru sinning/non-abiding WHATEVER) then it isn't ETERNAL. JJ
Who cares about what a 19th century formed theologian thinks? He’s wrong, that’s why the doctrine of eternal security DIDN'T EXIST until the 16th century. Nobody taught eternal security before the 16th century. Every single time Paul uses the word “you” throughout the entire epistle he’s referring to the exact same brethren of the church. Why do you think he said

“You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Who is Paul writing to here? The brethren of the church. The same people he’s writing to in this verse.

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭4‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

We’re the Judaizers running well?

“They eagerly seek you, not commendably, but they wish to shut you out so that you will seek them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4‬:‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

No they were not running well their intentions were self serving not serving God. So why would Paul say that the Judaizers were running well? He didn’t, the ones who were running well were the foolish Galatians who were being mislead by a false gospel.
 
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BrotherJJ

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Who cares about what a 19th venture formed theologian thinks? He’s wrong, that’s why the doctrine of eternal security DIDN'T EXIST until the 16th century. Nobody taught eternal security before the 16th century. Every single time Paul uses the word “you” throughout the entire epistle he’s referring to the exact same brethren of the church. Why do you think he said

“You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Who is Paul writing to here? The brethren of the church. The same people he’s writing to in this verse.

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you. A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭4‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

We’re the Judaizers running well?

“They eagerly seek you, not commendably, but they wish to shut you out so that you will seek them.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4‬:‭17‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

No they were not running well their intentions were self serving not serving God. So why would Paul say that the Judaizers were running well? He didn’t, the ones who were running well were the foolish Galatians who were being mislead by a false gospel.
Faith in the Lords spilled blood has purged/cleansed/removed ALL the believers sin (ITS FINISHED! YOU'RE FORGIVEN!).

Quit making sin (it's been dealt with) your doctrinal center piece. Make Christ, what He suffered & accomplished the doctrinal center piece.

KJ Bible Dictionary: FORGIV'EN - Pardoned remitted.
av1611.com
FORGIVEN - Definition from the KJV Dictionary
Definition of FORGIVEN from the King James Bible Dictionary
av1611.com

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Forgiven - [ A-2,Verb,G5483, charizomai ]
"to bestow a favor unconditionally," is used of the act of "forgiveness," whether Divine, Ephesians 4:32; Colossians 2:13; Colossians 3:13; or human, Luke 7:42-Luke 7:43 (debt); 2 Corinthians 2:7, 2 Corinthians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:32 (1st mention)

King James Bible dictionary say's; believers sins are PARDONED!.

Vines Bible dictionary say's; the believers sin forgiveness is UNCONDITIONAL! Not! until the next time you slip/fall/sin. AMEN & Amen

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
(MY NOTE: Christ obtained ETERNAL REDEMPTION for us)

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
(MY NOTE: This new sin management covenant is EVERLASTING. Not just the next time to stumble N fall)

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(MY NOTE: Christ PERFECTED FOREVER those He has sanctified)

Ps 37:28 (A) For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever,
(MY NOTE: He PRESERVES his saints FOREVER)

Rev 1:5 Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Jesus Christ that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(MY NOTE: ALL our sins washed/removed/forgiven. Also see Col 1:14 & 2:13)

Believers sins are forgiven & washed away. They are preserved & perfected via a Christ/God mediated everlasting covenant!
 
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BNR32FAN

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Faith in the Lords spilled blood has purged/cleansed/removed ALL the believers sin (ITS FINISHED! YOU'RE FORGIVEN!).

Quit making sin (it's been dealt with) your doctrinal center piece. Make Christ, what He suffered & accomplished the doctrinal center piece.

KJ Bible Dictionary: FORGIV'EN - Pardoned remitted.
av1611.com
FORGIVEN - Definition from the KJV Dictionary
Definition of FORGIVEN from the King James Bible Dictionary
av1611.com

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Forgiven - [ A-2,Verb,G5483, charizomai ]
"to bestow a favor unconditionally," is used of the act of "forgiveness," whether Divine, Ephesians 4:32; Colossians 2:13; Colossians 3:13; or human, Luke 7:42-Luke 7:43 (debt); 2 Corinthians 2:7, 2 Corinthians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:32 (1st mention)

King James Bible dictionary say's; believers sins are PARDONED!.

Vines Bible dictionary say's; the believers sin forgiveness is UNCONDITIONAL! Not! until the next time you slip/fall/sin. AMEN & Amen

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
(MY NOTE: Christ obtained ETERNAL REDEMPTION for us)

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
(MY NOTE: This new sin management covenant is EVERLASTING. Not just the next time to stumble N fall)

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(MY NOTE: Christ PERFECTED FOREVER those He has sanctified)

Ps 37:28 (A) For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever,
(MY NOTE: He PRESERVES his saints FOREVER)

Rev 1:5 Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Jesus Christ that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(MY NOTE: ALL our sins washed/removed/forgiven. Also see Col 1:14 & 2:13)

Believers sins are forgiven & washed away. They are preserved & perfected via a Christ/God mediated everlasting covenant!
I’m not making sin anything. I’m discussing what Paul wrote to the Galatians. I’m not even talking about sin. I haven’t mentioned sin NOT ONCE during this entire discussion about Galatians and you won’t even engage in the discussion. Posting vines definitions and verses that have nothing to do with the discussion is not discussing the passage. I’m asking you why Paul would tell the Judaizers that they were running well and you won’t answer the question. I’m pointing out that Paul never once refers to the Judaizers as “you” in the entire epistle and you won’t even comment on that.
 
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BrotherJJ

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I’m not making sin anything. I’m discussing what Paul wrote to the Galatians. I’m not even talking about sin. I haven’t mentioned sin NOT ONCE during this entire discussion about Galatians and you won’t even engage in the discussion. Posting vines definitions and verses that have nothing to do with the discussion is not discussing the passage. I’m asking you why Paul would tell the Judaizers that they were running well and you won’t answer the question. I’m pointing out that Paul never once refers to the Judaizers as “you” in the entire epistle and you won’t even comment on that.
Tther's is only one unforgivable sin = Rejecting Christ's sin atoning sacrifice.

Jn 8:24 Jesus said; you shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Only Christ baptizes with the forever abiding Holy Spirit [Matt 3:11, Lk 3:16, Mk 1:8, Jn 1:33]

Jn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
(MY NOTE: The Comforter/Holy Spirit once given abides with you FOREVER!)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed "ye were sealed with that holy Spirit'' of promise
(MY NOTE: You heard & BELIEVED about Jesus sin atoning payment & resurrection. Then by Jesus (Matt 3:11, Mk 1:8, Lk 3:16), you were <PAST TENSE > SEALED with God's promised gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Lk 24:49, Acts 1:4 & 5, 2:33)

4 Which is the down payment of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(MY NOTE: God's gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit is a down payment on His eternal life promise. He is trustworthy & never breaks His promises)

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(MY NOTE: God SEALS every BELIEVER with the earnest =A down payment. His promised/gift of His salvation sealing eternal life giving indwelling Holy Spirit)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(MY NOTE: God gives every BELIEVER the earnest = down payment. Of His promised/gift the salvation sealing, eternal life giving, indwelling Holy Spirit)

Tim 1:14 (A) The Holy Spirit who dwells within us
(MY NOTE: God's promised gift of the Holy Spirit dwells inside every believed)

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
(MY NOTE: Every BELIEVER is SEALED with God's promised gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit until the actual day of redemption. When our corruptible mortal/human body is changed into an incorruption eternal heavenly body. See 1 Cor 15:53)

GIFTS Christs GIVES to every believer:

HOLY SPIRIT - A gift given thru FAITH: Acts 10:45, 11:17

ETERNAL LIFE - A gift given thru FAITH: Rom 6:23, Jn 5:24

RIGHTEOUSNESS - A gift given thru FAITH: Rom 4:5 & 5:17-18

GRACE - Given freely & received thru FAITH: Rom 3:24, 4:16, 5:1-2, 15, ""11:6"" ""Eph 2:5 & 8""

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(MY NOTE: Once He gives GIFTS God doesn't change His mind)

1 Jn 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
(MY NOTE: Your sins are forgiven <PAST TENSE)

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
(MY NOTE: Believers in Christ's perpetual sin cleansing blood have ETERNAL REDEMPTION!)

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(MY NOTE: Christ's grace thru faith dispensation new testament/covenant promises an ETERNAL INHERITANCE!)

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
(MY NOTE: Christ sin removing blood covenant is ETERNAL!)

2 Tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
(MY NOTE: Saved """NOT according to our works""" but according to the grace given. To those that trust in Christ' sin atoning sacrifice)

Jude 1:1 the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
(MY NOTE Believers are sanctified by the Father & FOREVER (Jn 14:16) PRESERVED by the Son)

Rom written to believers (Rom 1:7)
Rom 8:
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. AMEN & Amen!
 
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BNR32FAN

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Tther's is only one unforgivable sin = Rejecting Christ's sin atoning sacrifice.

Jn 8:24 Jesus said; you shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.

Only Christ baptizes with the forever abiding Holy Spirit [Matt 3:11, Lk 3:16, Mk 1:8, Jn 1:33]

Jn 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
(MY NOTE: The Comforter/Holy Spirit once given abides with you FOREVER!)

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed "ye were sealed with that holy Spirit'' of promise
(MY NOTE: You heard & BELIEVED about Jesus sin atoning payment & resurrection. Then by Jesus (Matt 3:11, Mk 1:8, Lk 3:16), you were <PAST TENSE > SEALED with God's promised gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit. Lk 24:49, Acts 1:4 & 5, 2:33)

4 Which is the down payment of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(MY NOTE: God's gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit is a down payment on His eternal life promise. He is trustworthy & never breaks His promises)

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(MY NOTE: God SEALS every BELIEVER with the earnest =A down payment. His promised/gift of His salvation sealing eternal life giving indwelling Holy Spirit)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit
(MY NOTE: God gives every BELIEVER the earnest = down payment. Of His promised/gift the salvation sealing, eternal life giving, indwelling Holy Spirit)

Tim 1:14 (A) The Holy Spirit who dwells within us
(MY NOTE: God's promised gift of the Holy Spirit dwells inside every believed)

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.
(MY NOTE: Every BELIEVER is SEALED with God's promised gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit until the actual day of redemption. When our corruptible mortal/human body is changed into an incorruption eternal heavenly body. See 1 Cor 15:53)

GIFTS Christs GIVES to every believer:

HOLY SPIRIT - A gift given thru FAITH: Acts 10:45, 11:17

ETERNAL LIFE - A gift given thru FAITH: Rom 6:23, Jn 5:24

RIGHTEOUSNESS - A gift given thru FAITH: Rom 4:5 & 5:17-18

GRACE - Given freely & received thru FAITH: Rom 3:24, 4:16, 5:1-2, 15, ""11:6"" ""Eph 2:5 & 8""

Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
(MY NOTE: Once He gives GIFTS God doesn't change His mind)

1 Jn 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
(MY NOTE: Your sins are forgiven <PAST TENSE)

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
(MY NOTE: Believers in Christ's perpetual sin cleansing blood have ETERNAL REDEMPTION!)

Heb 9:15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
(MY NOTE: Christ's grace thru faith dispensation new testament/covenant promises an ETERNAL INHERITANCE!)

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
(MY NOTE: Christ sin removing blood covenant is ETERNAL!)

2 Tim 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
(MY NOTE: Saved """NOT according to our works""" but according to the grace given. To those that trust in Christ' sin atoning sacrifice)

Jude 1:1 the servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to them that are sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ, and called:
(MY NOTE Believers are sanctified by the Father & FOREVER (Jn 14:16) PRESERVED by the Son)

Rom written to believers (Rom 1:7)
Rom 8:
37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. AMEN & Amen!
James taught the same thing that Paul was teaching the Galatians.

Still running from the discussion because you can’t refute the truth when it’s right there in front of you in black & white. That’s fine you go ahead and ignore what Paul said in Galatians and I’ll keep preaching it in this thread so people can make their own decision on what the word of God truly teaches.
 
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BrotherJJ

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James taught the same thing that Paul was teaching the Galatians.

Still running from the discussion because you can’t refute the truth when it’s right there in front of you in black & white. That’s fine you go ahead and ignore what Paul said in Galatians and I’ll keep preaching it in this thread so people can make their own decision on what the word of God truly teaches.
Wrong again! We've already went down that road.
 
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Strong in Him

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I think it depends on the type of believer.
If they think they can abide in sin that the Bible condemns with warnings of hellfire on some level (with the thinking they are saved), then they will by default disobey God's commands on some level or teach others to break them (by the problem in the teaching itself).
Anyone who is properly taught the Gospel, experiences God's love for him/herself and is filled with the Spirit will not think about, or want to do, such a thing.
That would be like someone falling in love with a girl, marrying her, committing himself to her for the rest of his life and then thinking "now what can I do to upset and hurt her?"
Salvation is conditional
No.
That would mean that God says, "you can do nothing to save yourselves, Jesus died to save you - now that you are saved, go and keep it up by your own efforts."

If a believer abides in sin they either have reverted back to a lost spiritual state, or they are in danger with God and His wrath (unless they repent).
If a believer abides in sin, then maybe they haven't truly received God's love, don't believe they are worthy of it or think they have to earn it in some way.
I don't believe that anyone who has gratefully received God's love, experienced it and knows it, will want to hurt him by deliberately sinning.

Proverbs 28:9 says,
"He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination."
And yet God heard the prayers of sinners who cried out for help - see David, Ahab, Jonah, the Ninevites and the Israelites themselves, every time they were punished.

Granted, while this verse was in reference to the Old Law when it was written, I believe the truth of this verse applies today under the Laws of Christ.
God still hears the prayers of sinners - and he sent his Son to die for them.

And the context...

John 10:27
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: "

So the context of those who cannot be snatched out of the hand (singular) of the Father and the Son (Jesus) is referring to sheep that follow Jesus. It's not referring to rebellious sheep who refuse to follow Jesus
If someone refuses to follow Jesus and obey him, are they really one of his sheep?
How many born again, Spirit filled Christians do you know who have done that?

Hebrews 6:4-6
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. "

And you're ignoring the context of who Hebrews was written to.
Jewish Christians were being warned that because they had declared Jesus to be the Messiah, had been baptised in his Spirit, had known and experienced God's love; if they went to the Jewish synagogues, stood up in public and said, "I repent, Jesus is not the Messiah but a false Christ", they could not repent back afterwards.
Paul agreed with that when he wrote "if we deny him; he will deny us" 2 Timothy 3:12.

Those verses do not mean that if a believer sins after becoming a Christian; that's it.
Evidence? I'm still here. So are a number of Christian leaders who've publicly sinned.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Wrong again! We've already went down that road.
Lol really? Let’s just see about that.

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭4‬-‭8‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1‬:‭21‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2‬:‭11‬-‭13‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11‬:‭17‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

““I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity. But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8‬:‭12‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6‬:‭4‬-‭8‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.””
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2‬:‭20‬-‭22‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4‬:‭3‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

““Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭9‬-‭13‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’ ””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13‬:‭6‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, while it is said, “Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts, as when they provoked Me.” For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3‬:‭12‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised. For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay. But My righteous one shall live by faith; And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10‬:‭35‬-‭38‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3‬:‭2‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place—unless you repent.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Apparently it doesn’t matter if you’re a Gentile or a Jew, if you stray from the gospel your salvation is lost. The Bible has a lot to say about apostasy and the consequences of it.
 
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BNR32FAN

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No.
That would mean that God says, "you can do nothing to save yourselves, Jesus died to save you - now that you are saved, go and keep it up by your own efforts."

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Apparently people can be severed from Christ and fall from grace.
 
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BNR32FAN

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If a believer abides in sin, then maybe they haven't truly received God's love, don't believe they are worthy of it or think they have to earn it in some way.
I don't believe that anyone who has gratefully received God's love, experienced it and knows it, will want to hurt him by deliberately sinning.
But the scriptures repeatedly say this will happen. I’ve posted several examples in post 412.
 
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BNR32FAN

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And yet God heard the prayers of sinners who cried out for help - see David, Ahab, Jonah, the Ninevites and the Israelites themselves, every time they were punished.
I agree with you here, Jesus will always accept everyone who repents. As long as there’s still air in your lungs no matter what you’ve done you can still repent and be saved.
 
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If someone refuses to follow Jesus and obey him, are they really one of his sheep?
How many born again, Spirit filled Christians do you know who have done that?
Jesus never said once a person becomes one of His sheep that they are always one of His sheep.
 
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BNR32FAN

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And you're ignoring the context of who Hebrews was written to.
Jewish Christians were being warned that because they had declared Jesus to be the Messiah, had been baptised in his Spirit, had known and experienced God's love; if they went to the Jewish synagogues, stood up in public and said, "I repent, Jesus is not the Messiah but a false Christ", they could not repent back afterwards.
Paul agreed with that when he wrote "if we deny him; he will deny us" 2 Timothy 3:12.

Those verses do not mean that if a believer sins after becoming a Christian; that's it.
Evidence? I'm still here. So are a number of Christian leaders who've publicly sinned.
Personally my interpretation of that verse is that the writer is saying that it is impossible for us to bring such a person back to repentance, meaning that it would be impossible for us to present any evidence that would persuade them to repent if they had already received the Holy Spirit who is much more convincing than we could ever be. I do however believe that they are still capable of repentance thru the conviction of the Holy Spirit.
 
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Lol really? Let’s just see about that.

“My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.”
‭‭James‬ ‭5‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love. You were running well; who hindered you from obeying the truth? This persuasion did not come from Him who calls you.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭4‬-‭8‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds, yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1‬:‭21‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“It is a trustworthy statement: For if we died with Him, we will also live with Him; If we endure, we will also reign with Him; If we deny Him, He also will deny us; If we are faithless, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2‬:‭11‬-‭13‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree, do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭11‬:‭17‬-‭23‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6‬:‭16‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

““I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me. I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.”
‭‭John‬ ‭15‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity. But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭8‬:‭12‬-‭15‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“For in the case of those who have once been enlightened and have tasted of the heavenly gift and have been made partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, and then have fallen away, it is impossible to renew them again to repentance, since they again crucify to themselves the Son of God and put Him to open shame. For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭6‬:‭4‬-‭8‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A dog returns to its own vomit,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.””
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2‬:‭20‬-‭22‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires, and will turn away their ears from the truth and will turn aside to myths.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭4‬:‭3‬-‭4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭4‬:‭1‬-‭2‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

““Then they will deliver you to tribulation, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name. At that time many will fall away and will betray one another and hate one another. Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many. Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold. But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭24‬:‭9‬-‭13‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“And He began telling this parable: “A man had a fig tree which had been planted in his vineyard; and he came looking for fruit on it and did not find any. And he said to the vineyard-keeper, ‘Behold, for three years I have come looking for fruit on this fig tree without finding any. Cut it down! Why does it even use up the ground?’ And he answered and said to him, ‘Let it alone, sir, for this year too, until I dig around it and put in fertilizer; and if it bears fruit next year, fine; but if not, cut it down.’ ””
‭‭Luke‬ ‭13‬:‭6‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God. But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end, while it is said, “Today if you hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts, as when they provoked Me.” For who provoked Him when they had heard? Indeed, did not all those who came out of Egypt led by Moses? And with whom was He angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who were disobedient? So we see that they were not able to enter because of unbelief.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭3‬:‭12‬-‭19‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has a great reward. For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of God, you may receive what was promised. For yet in a very little while, He who is coming will come, and will not delay. But My righteous one shall live by faith; And if he shrinks back, My soul has no pleasure in him.”
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭10‬:‭35‬-‭38‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God. So remember what you have received and heard; and keep it, and repent. Therefore if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what hour I will come to you.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭3‬:‭2‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

“But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. Therefore remember from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you and will remove your lampstand out of its place—unless you repent.”
‭‭Revelation‬ ‭2‬:‭4‬-‭5‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Apparently it doesn’t matter if you’re a Gentile or a Jew, if you stray from the gospel your salvation is lost. The Bible has a lot to say about apostasy and the consequences of it.
John 3:16 & God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have everlasting life

(MY NOTE: Believers in the Son "HAVE" < PRESENT TENSE everlasting life. If you next sin can have you exiled. Then you NEVER HAD ETERNAL LIFE)
Believers Have Eternal Life

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son "hath" everlasting life & he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him

(MY NOTE: Whoever BELIEVES On Jesus "HAS" PRESENT TENSE everlasting life. Everlasting life NOT just until the next time you sin )

John 10:28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
(MY NOTE: I give unto them "Eternal Life", they shall never perish. Not until the next time to don't confess & repent.)

John 11:26 Jesus said; whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?
(MY NOTE: Jesus said; whoever lives & believers in Him shall never die. I believe this! Sadly SOME DON'T BELIEVE HIM)

Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.
(MY NOTE: Whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. Nothing beyond Faith needed)

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in Jesus should not perish, but have eternal life.
(MY NOTE: Whoever believes in Jesus has eternal life. Faith alone needed)

Rom 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
(MY NOTE: Confess Jesus as Lord & believe He was raised from the dead. He bought & paid for ALL your sin on the cross. His God blood is a perpetual sin cleanser)

Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
(MY NOTE: Whoever NEVER SINS AGAIN or confesses every lifelong sin? NO!)

Romans 8:

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
(MY Christ the most faithful to ever live. Died for the believers sins confessed or unconfessed, rose from the grave, Fathers receipt: SIN PAYMENT ACCEPTED!)

Romans 11:29 The "gifts" & calling of God are """irrevocable"""
(MY NOTE: When Christ places His Holy Spirit in You. ITS a DONE/ETERNAL DEAL!)

Jn 14:16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another [c]Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby), to be with you forever
(MY NOTE: The Comforter = Christ's Holy Spirit will abide with/in us FOREVER!)

Summery,

Through Faith & faith alone [placed in Christs death [sins required wage/Rom 6:23 PAID] burial [Proof Jesus died] & resurrection [Father God's receipt, sins required wage received & accepted] [See 1 Cor 15:1-4] The believer is sealed/saved & Forever secure! Thank you Lord Jesus)

Rom 3:

22 This righteousness of God comes through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [Jew or Gentile] who believe [and trust in Him and acknowledge Him as God’s Son]. There is no distinction,
(MY NOTE: Righteousness comes through faith placed in Jesus sin atoning work. Not thru our self-works of any kind)

23 since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God,

24 and are being justified [declared free of the guilt of sin, made acceptable to God, and granted eternal life] as a gift by His [precious, undeserved] grace, through the redemption [the payment for our sin] which is [provided] in Christ Jesus,
(MY NOTE: Believers in Jesus sin atoning work are declared free of the guilt of sin, made acceptable to God & granted eternal life via the Fathers GIFT of grace)

25 whom God displayed publicly [before the eyes of the world] as a [life-giving] sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation (propitiation) by His blood [to be received] through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness [which demands punishment for sin], because in His forbearance [His deliberate restraint] He passed over the sins previously committed [before Jesus’ crucifixion].

26 It was to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the One who justifies those who have faith in Jesus [and rely confidently on Him as Savior].

27 Then what becomes of [our] boasting? It is excluded [entirely ruled out, banished]. On what principle? On [the principle of good] works? No, but on the principle of faith.

28 For we maintain that an individual is justified by faith distinctly apart from works of the Law [the observance of which has nothing to do with justification, that is, being declared free of the guilt of sin and made acceptable to God].

(MY NOTE: Believers in Jesus sin atoning work are justified/declared righteous & made acceptable to the Father. Through faith distinctly apart from works of the Law!)

Rom 5:

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

[The law entered to magnify, exposing sin. God's grace & forgiveness far exceeds the laws sin judgement]

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: Abound
1, signifies "to abound exceedingly," Romans 5:20, of the operation of grace;
Where sin ABOUNDS GRACE SUPER ABOUNDS

Eph 1:

7In Him we have redemption [that is, our deliverance and salvation] through His blood, [which paid the penalty for our sin and resulted in] the forgiveness and complete pardon of our sin, in accordance with the riches of His grace

(MY NOTE: Thru His BLOOD He DID the WORK. We HAVE forgiveness & complete pardon from ALL our sin)

13 In Him, you also, when you heard the word of truth, the good news of your salvation, and [as a result] believed in Him, were stamped with the seal of the promised Holy Spirit [the One promised by Christ] as owned and protected [by God].

14 The Spirit is the [e]guarantee [the first installment, the pledge, a foretaste] of our inheritance until the redemption of God’s own [purchased] possession [His believers], to the praise of His glory.

Heb 9:12 He went once for all into the Holy Place [the Holy of Holies of heaven, into the presence of God], and not through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, having obtained and secured eternal redemption [that is, the salvation of all who personally believe in Him as Savior].
(MY NOTE: Christ' sinless God blood offering is a perpetual sin cleansing agent. That obtained ETERNAL redemption for every believer.)

Heb 13:20 Now may the God of peace [the source of serenity and spiritual well-being] who brought up from the dead our Lord Jesus, the great Shepherd of the sheep, through the blood that sealed and ratified the eternal covenant
(MY NOTE: The risen Christ' perpetual sin management, blood covenant, is EVERLASTING!) Not just 1 year or until the next time to stumble or miss the mark)

Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God [but seek to please Him], by whom you were sealed and marked [branded as God’s own] for the day of redemption [the final deliverance from the consequences of sin]
(MY NOTE: [Eph 1:1] written to saints/believers. Are Sealed via Christ's indwelling Holy Spirit. Delivered from sns the consequence & preserved until the day of our bodily redemption. Through an everlasting, Christ mediated [Heb 8:6 & 12:24] perpetual sin cleansing covenant)

SCRIPTURE DECLARES ONCE SAVED ALWAY'S SAVED.
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Apparently people can be severed from Christ and fall from grace.
Correct. One cannot be severed from Christ unless they were in fact joined with Christ.
Hebrews 10:26-32
(26) For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
(31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
(32) But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions;​
This is not referring to make-believe Christians but people who have been sanctified by the blood of the covenant.
 
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BrotherJJ

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Vine's dictionary has 15 verifiable Greek to English translators. Experts in Greek nouns & their grammatical genders: masculine, feminine, neuter & how their used in a number, singular, dual, or plural. And all respects of Greek from verbs to mood, voice, aspect, tense, number, and person.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: definition - English "SEAL" = Greek "sphragis" context as a Noun - Strongs ref #4973

(a) "the seal of the living God," an emblem of "ownership & security" the persons to be "sealed" being "secured from destruction & marked for reward"

English "seal" = Greek "sphragizo" context as a verb - Strongs ref #4972
(d) ownership and security, three indications are conveyed in Ephesians 1:13 , in the metaphor of the "sealing" of believers by the gift of the Holy Spirit, upon believing (i.e., at the time of their regeneration, not after a lapse of time in their spiritual life, "having also believed," "after that ye believed;" the aorist (TENSE) participle marks the definiteness and completeness of the act of faith); the idea of destination is stressed by the phrase "the Holy Spirit of promise" (see also Ephesians 1:14 ); so Ephesians 4:30 , "ye were sealed unto the day of redemption;"

MY NOTE: Vine's Greek to English translation experts define SEAL & cited verses Eph 1:13, 14, 4:30: The SEAL of the living God. Denoting His ownership, SECURING the BELIEVER from destruction & marking them for reward!

QUOTING VINES: Not after a lapse of time in their spiritual life, "having also believed," "after that ye believed;" the aorist (TENSE) participle marks the definiteness and completeness of the act of faith. Jesus sin payment bought, paid for & eternally secures the believers eternal life DONE DEAL/FINISHED TRANSACTION!)

Vines calls God's eternal SEAL/Holy Spirit a GIFT. Scripture also proclaims the Holy Spirit is a GIFT received thru FAITH (Rom 6:23, Jn 5:24) GIFTS are given, NOT earned!

Who is one to believe about eternal life? Scripture & expert translators that proclaim salvation is FOREVER/eternal life. Or a few unknown faceless posters on a chat forum? Easy choice for me, others are free to make their own.

Final thought:
The notion what Jesus endured, He became a curse (Gal 3:13) He became sin (2 Cor 5:21) taking ALL SINS DUE/REQUIRED JUDGMENT, His face was beaten beyond recognition (Isa 52:14) All His back flesh removed by cata 9 tails, publicly striped nude, nailed to a cross etc. And somehow this wasn't quite enough. And He needs their help complete a sin redemption work that He proclaimed IS FINISHED. Nuff said
 
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Bible Highlighter

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Anyone who is properly taught the Gospel, experiences God's love for him/herself and is filled with the Spirit will not think about, or want to do, such a thing.
That would be like someone falling in love with a girl, marrying her, committing himself to her for the rest of his life and then thinking "now what can I do to upset and hurt her?"
So what is your interpretation on 1 John 1:8?
What about Romans 7:14-24?
What is your view on the Christian who is backslidden into a lifestyle of sin?
Was the prodigal son saved while living it up with prostitutes?


No.
That would mean that God says, "you can do nothing to save yourselves, Jesus died to save you - now that you are saved, go and keep it up by your own efforts."
Then how you live does not really matter.
One can be a murderer, fornicator, and or a thief with this kind of false teaching.


If a believer abides in sin, then maybe they haven't truly received God's love,
This is the common excuse, but when push comes to shove, when I talked to believer who hold to your view, they also admit that a Christian can sin and still be saved on some level. Meaning, if a Christian has a lustful thought, are they still saved? If so, then what do you make of Matthew 5:28-30? What if a Christian has a temporary moment of unforgiveness? Are they saved while in a state of unforgiveness? What if they died while not forgiving somebody? Are they still saved?


don't believe they are worthy of it or think they have to earn it in some way.
God so loved the world, that does not mean the entire world is saved.
Christians are first saved by God’s grace, and they don’t have to do a work to get saved, but once they have been saved by God’s grace, they do have to obey God to enter the Kingdom. If not, then how do you explain the Parable of the Talents? The unprofitable servant is cast into outer darkness where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth.


I don't believe that anyone who has gratefully received God's love, experienced it and knows it, will want to hurt him by deliberately sinning.
Again, this is misdirection. It does not matter one’s intentions. If you take away the true punishment of sin, then it is inevitable one will turn God’s grace into a license to sin on some level or not be concerned with being fruitful or to warn others properly (Whereby their blood will be on that person’s hands if one fails to do so).


And yet God heard the prayers of sinners who cried out for help - see David, Ahab, Jonah, the Ninevites and the Israelites themselves, every time they were punished.
Luke 18:9-14 is clearly a great point in Scripture where a person can be saved by God’s grace. Sure, a person can admit they are a sinner (Past tense), and move on and seek to obey God, but they cannot say they are a sinner present tense in the sense that they will never change or they will just go out and do the same evil thing tomorrow because they cannot help it.


God still hears the prayers of sinners - and he sent his Son to die for them.
As long as they are willing to turn from their sins this would be a… “yes.”

John 9:31
”Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.”


If someone refuses to follow Jesus and obey him, are they really one of his sheep?
Again, If one believes salvation is not conditional as the Bible teaches or they think they can sin and still be saved on some smaller level, then following Jesus is not really in view. One is only fooling themselves that they are following Jesus in such a case because one falsely thinks salvation is not based on any kind of performance at any point in their Christian life.


How many born again, Spirit filled Christians do you know who have done that?
We are living in the last days. Not many are truly interested in following Jesus like it was in the early church.
There is no fear of God among many today.


And you're ignoring the context of who Hebrews was written to.
Jewish Christians were being warned that because they had declared Jesus to be the Messiah, had been baptised in his Spirit, had known and experienced God's love; if they went to the Jewish synagogues, stood up in public and said, "I repent, Jesus is not the Messiah but a false Christ", they could not repent back afterwards.
Paul agreed with that when he wrote "if we deny him; he will deny us" 2 Timothy 3:12.
So this proves salvation is conditional.
You cannot be saved if the Lord denies you.

Side Note:

Do you believe a Christian can deny Jesus and still be saved?

Those verses do not mean that if a believer sins after becoming a Christian; that's it.
Evidence? I'm still here. So are a number of Christian leaders who've publicly sinned.
Apostasy is different than backsliding into sin.
Apostasy is one rejecting Jesus as their Savior.
Backsliding into sin is addressed in the Parable of the Prodigal Son, and James 5:19-20.
One needs to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy (i.e., continued salvation).
 
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