Justification by Faith

[Bible Highlighter]

Gotquestions article says that a true Christian who has backslidden into a life of sin is still saved.
This means that a believer can live in habitual sin and still be saved.

Is a backsliding Christian still saved? | GotQuestions.org

Is a backsliding / backslidden Christian still saved? How far can a true Christian backslide?

www.gotquestions.org

So if a believer can sin and still be saved, then they can be hopped up on drugs and be saved.
But would you want to go to ground zero in Philadelphia or Kenningston neighborhood?
Those people there are walking around like literal zombies (Note: You can do a YouTube search on it to see).
They are not saved and they need Jesus badly. But according to Gotquestions, if somebody is a true believer, maybe one of those people hooked on drugs is possibly saved and merely backslidden.

In the sin and still be saved belief, all one has to do is believe in Jesus. Conduct really does not factor into it.
Some will say that no true believer will be like that and yet others will say that they can live in such a way and be saved.
But those who say that a Christian does not live in habitual sin simply minimize the amount of the frequency of sin quoting such verses like 1 John 1:8 (as if that is okay).
So that means one can shoot up drugs every ten years or do something sinister infrequently as long as it is not habitual.
But both are justifications of sin. Believers should set out to put away sin out of their lives and realize the truth of Scripture that grievous sins in the Bible can lead one to go to hell. Jesus even warned about how just looking upon a woman in lust can cause one to be cast bodily into hellfire (Matthew 5:28-30). Jesus warned that not helping the poor in this life will lead to fiery punishment (Matthew 25). The apostle Paul warned that we are not to be deceived on the matter that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 6:9-10). The apostle Paul taught that 1 Timothy 5:8 that one can be worse than an unbeliever if one (the believer) does not provide for their own.

 

[Der Alte]

Gotquestions article says that a true Christian who has backslidden into a life of sin is still saved.
This means that a believer can live in habitual sin and still be saved.

Is a backsliding Christian still saved? | GotQuestions.org

Is a backsliding / backslidden Christian still saved? How far can a true Christian backslide?

www.gotquestions.org

So if a believer can sin and still be saved, then they can be hopped up on drugs and be saved.
But would you want to go to ground zero in Philadelphia or Kenningston neighborhood?
Those people there are walking around like literal zombies (Note: You can do a YouTube search on it to see).
They are not saved and they need Jesus badly. But according to Gotquestions, if somebody is a true believer, maybe one of those people hooked on drugs is possibly saved and merely backslidden.
In the sin and still be saved belief, all one has to do is believe in Jesus. Conduct really does not factor into it.
Some will say that no true believer will be like that and yet others will say that they can live in such a way and be saved.
But those who say that a Christian does not live in habitual sin simply minimize the amount of the frequency of sin quoting such verses like 1 John 1:8 (as if that is okay).
So that means one can shoot up drugs every ten years or do something sinister infrequently as long as it is not habitual.
But both are justifications of sin. Believers should set out to put away sin out of their lives and realize the truth of Scripture that grievous sins in the Bible can lead one to go to hell. Jesus even warned about how just looking upon a woman in lust can cause one to be cast bodily into hellfire (Matthew 5:28-30). Jesus warned that not helping the poor in this life will lead to hellfire (Matthew 25).

PMFBI Not according to Hebrews 10.

Hebrews 10:23
(23) Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised; )
Hebrews 10:29-31
(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
(31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

 

[BrotherJJ]

1st the epistle is written to Hebrews, prior to the destruction of the Temple. The animal sacrificial system is still in full operation.

Context leading up to the 2 verses you've cited

Heb 10: (paraphrasing)
1 The Mosaic law sacrificial system was a SHADOW of the coming BETTER sin management system.

2 Animal sacrifices couldn't purged/remove the worshipers consciousness of their sins.

3 These daily/repeated sacrifices reminded the worshipers of sin

4 The blood of animal sacrifices COULDN'T take away sin. They only covered (therefore the Lord passed over/didn't exact any judgment). These covered sins were REMOVED, after Jesus ultimate ONCE FOR ALL TIME - Christ's sinless perpetually cleansing God blood sacrifice)

5 The God body sacrifice prepared & sent WOULD be able to TAKE AWAY/REMOVE sin & the consciousness thereof

6 The time for burnt offerings & animal sacrifices was over!

7 The OT promised Messiah/Redeemer/Jesus had come to fulfill scripture.

8 The OT Levitical law animal sacrifices are no longer acceptable!

10 NOW! Every believing worshipper is sanctified/set apart thru faith in Jesus one time/FOREVER God blood offering/sacrifice!

11 OT priests STOOD-UP (no chairs in the Holy place because the work was never over) these daily/repeatedly offered animal sacrifices COULDN'T take away sins!!!

12 Jesus's sinless God blood offering was good ONCE FOREVER & He SAT DOWN at the Father's right hand. The ULTIMATE law fulfilling sacrifice for sins is FINISHED!

14 For by ONE offering He has PERFECTED FOREVER! (How long! until your next sin? No, FOREVER!

15 Holy Ghost (via OT prophecies) is the witness to this coming day we're now living in

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them saith the Lord, via my indwelling Holy Spirit. I will write my laws in their hearts & minds

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now that the ultimate ONCE for ALL time sacrifice that pardons DON'T EVER! Bring another animal sacrifice. It's a slap in God's face.

19 Those that have accessed Christs ONCE for ALL sacrifice. Can inter into God's presents. (Anyone that entered into the Holies ofv Holies DIED without mercy. The high priest could enter once per year (with blood) idf he had performed enough tasks that will give you a headache reading)

20 Those that have accessed Christs ONCE for ALL sacrifice. Are clean through faith in His broken body.

21 Jesus is now & FOREVER High Priest over a BETTER sin management system

22 You can be sure by FAITH you FOREVER forgiven & then the author adds a few jewish ritual all jews understood

23 FAITH is the new covenant key.

24 love each other & prove it with you actions

25 meet together & encourage one another.

26 If you DARE BRING an animal sacrifice to the temple for a sin offering. Thats a renunciation/rejection of the truth equaling UNBELIEF!

27 Beware of Gods judgment & indignation, which devours the adversaries.

28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:

29 If today you bring an animal sacrifice to the temple. How much sorer punishment, shall be imposed on those who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted His blood of the new covenant worthless with this unholy sacrifice you've done in despite of His Spirit of grace?

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: [ A-3,Verb,G4065, periphroneo ] Despise, Despiser

in Hebrews 10:28, "hath set at nought;" See DISANNUL, REJECT, VOID, No. 2.

(MY NOTE: Vines verifiable Greek to English translator scholars: Define [VERSE 28] DESPISED > hath set at nought;" See REJECT.)

Chapter 10 context::
(VS 1) citing old Mosaic (LAW) covenant animal sacrifices. Christians don't observe animal sacrifice practices.

(VS 28) context is is still citing old Mosaic (LAW) covenant practices.

Putting [VERSE 26] into context: If you DARE BRING an animal sacrifice to the temple for a sin offering. That's a renunciation/rejection of the truth equaling REJECTION/UNBELIEF in Christ's sin sacrifice.

Under the new covenant the only unforgivable sin is, UNBELIEF!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

PMFBI

For readers who do not know.
I am assuming you mean, “Pardon me, for butting in.”
Personally, I only use acronyms for really long theological words that are often repeated many times (like OSAS, ECT), and thus it explains why one would use such an acronym. I am not a big fan of using acronyms when it comes to regular words. I don't even like using "BTW" (By the way). It just seems like some people are not up to speed on all the acronyms that are out there, and they can be confused. Acronym use can also cause your listeners to waste time looking things up. My goal is to be as clear as possible with people and this is why I prefer personally not to use them unless it is theological words that most on a Christian forum should be aware of. It's annoying for a person to click off a pop-up ad because it takes time to get to reading the article.
The same concept could be said of using acronyms for normal words.

Here are articles to consider on why one should stop using acronyms involving normal words.

https://www.inc.com/jeff-steen/why-you-should-stop-using-acronyms-right-now.html

Why acronyms are annoying

Stop using acronyms. Using acronyms might save you two seconds of typing, but they might lose you a reader, a lead, or even a customer.

www.articulatemarketing.com

https://blog.prototypr.io/reasons-to-avoid-using-acronyms-e1a97c8ea6c4

Not according to Hebrews 10.

Hebrews 10:23​

(23) Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised; )​

Hebrews 10:29-31​

(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?​

(30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.​

(31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

First, not sure about your position here.

There are several choices for you to choose from.

#1. Hyper-Grace (A believer is not separated by any amount of sin; They do not have to exhibit a changed life and they can still be saved by a belief alone in Jesus as their Savior; FreeGrace2 and others I have talked with believe this) (This generally includes a belief in Eternal Security).​

​

#2. Saved by a Belief Alone (But conduct will be changed), but according to 1 John 1:8, we all sin (Note: This is a rough statement I have heard countless times by most Christians, but some of them never really explain what they mean by the kind of sin they commit or how often in 1 John 1:8. Some that do explain it I would classify as Hyper-Grace (This generally includes a belief in Eternal Security).​

​

#3. No Eternal Security but you can abide in sin on some smaller level (not habitual sin), and still be saved (This is a description of Free Will Baptists). The only way to lose salvation is by rejecting Jesus as one's Savior, but sin will not separate you from God according to them.​

​

#4. Salvation is Conditional Type #1. A believer has to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13) (1 John 1:9) (1 John 1:7). Jesus warned about how various sins can destroy or condemn our souls in the afterlife if not repented of (See: Matthew 5:28-30) (Matthew 6:15) (Matthew 12:37) (Matthew 25:31-46) (Luke 9:62). Paul warned how various sins can cause us to not inherit the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21) (1 Corinthians 6:9-10), and Paul said that if one does not provide for their own, they have denied the faith, and they are worse than an infidel (unbeliever) (1 Timothy 5:8). This is the belief that also teaches that we are saved by two aspects of salvation (i.e., One being by God's grace through faith in our Initial Salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9), and the second is being saved through the Sanctification of the Spirit to live a holy life (2 Thessalonians 2:13)).​

​

#5. Salvation is Conditional Type #2. We are saved by a Belief-Alone, but repentance is required. Some in this belief have different definitions of what kind of conduct is required. To me, I believe the terms are all muddy on this one.​

​

#6. Salvation is Conditional Type #3. We are never at any point saved by a Belief-Alone and faith can only exist if it has works. The Church of Christ believes you have to be water baptized (i.e., a work) in order to be initially saved. "Abide in the Word" YouTube Channel also appears to believe this, as well. They appear to believe in Works Alone Salvationism (Which, if such is the case, they do not accept Paul's words).​

​

#7. Universalism. Everyone will eventually be saved (even Hitler).​

I believe in Conditional Salvation Type #1 because that is the most plainest childlike reading of the text. To suggest otherwise is to get into the realm of Scripture twisting because one does not like what the Bible says. But we each must face the Lord in how we handled the Scriptures come judgment day.

I will not debate with Univeralists. One has to ignore verses that are too obvious.
I strive not to debate with Hyper-Grace Christians for too long.

Second, just posting the verses with no real commentary does not really explain anything. I have no idea what you actually believe in regard to sin and salvation. Christians are all over the map on this topic.

Side Note:

Mid-Acts Dispensationalists (MAD) (a.k.a. Hyper Dispensationalist) like the creator of this thread look to Paul as preaching a different gospel than Jesus. They generally believe in Hyper-Grace and chop out many New Testament books from the Bible and falsely claim these books do not apply to them.

Side Note 2:

Generally, beliefs that are unbiblical have some kind of personal motivation or they are selfish (not selfless) by their existence. For example, a person obviously has an invested selfish purpose in defending the idea that they can sin and still be saved the rest of their life based on a wrong interpretation of 1 John 1:8. Sin is obviously pleasurable to people, and so this is why they defend it. But God is not for any position on defending our sin or misrepresenting the true consequences of sin as described in His Word. Today, many Christians have used many excuses with me to explain away the warnings of how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself. This just shows you the times we are living in. People prefer their sin and not the real Jesus of the Bible. I have seen countless times their rejection of our Lord's words. Yet, Jesus says in John 12:48 that if we do not receive His words, those words will judge us on the last day. This includes me, you, and everybody else on this planet. Nobody is above the words of Jesus Christ.

 

[BrotherJJ]

God's Gift Of Everlasting Life Thru Faith In Jesus Christ

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but """have everlasting life"""

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son """hath everlasting life"""

John 6:35 Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; """he that believeth on me shall never thirst"""

1 Peter 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy """hath begotten us""" again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To """an inheritance incorruptible""", and undefiled, and """that fadeth not away""", reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are """kept by the power of God through faith""" unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word & believeth on him that sent me, """hath everlasting life""" and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 10:28 """I give unto them eternal life"""; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

Romans 8:33-39
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; """that ye may know that ye have eternal life"""
(That you may KNOW > RIGHT NOW that you HAVE > RIGHT NOW eternal life)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

God's Gift Of Everlasting Life Thru Faith In Jesus Christ

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but """have everlasting life"""

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son """hath everlasting life"""

John 6:35 Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; """he that believeth on me shall never thirst"""

1 Peter 1:
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy """hath begotten us""" again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To """an inheritance incorruptible""", and undefiled, and """that fadeth not away""", reserved in heaven for you,

5 Who are """kept by the power of God through faith""" unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that heareth my word & believeth on him that sent me, """hath everlasting life""" and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

John 10:28 """I give unto them eternal life"""; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.”

Romans 8:33-39
33 Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.

34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; """that ye may know that ye have eternal life"""
(That you may KNOW > RIGHT NOW that you HAVE > RIGHT NOW eternal life)

Romans 4:4, and Works of Earning Money vs. Works of Responsibility in Owning a Free Gift.

To him that works his reward is not of grace but it is of debt as if it was some kind of obligation like at a job whereby he works so as to earn money.

"Now to a laborer, his wages are not counted as a favor or a gift, but as an obligation (something owed to him)." (Romans 4:4) (AMPC).​

Works Alone or trading dollars for hours like at a job involving salvation is wrong. Works Alone Salvationism (without God’s grace) is wrong because one has no grace or rest ever. This would purely be a works-based system of salvation with no grace or mercy (like with Christ) if one messes up. A person’s good deeds have to outweigh their bad deeds.

But this is not the same thing as "Works of Responsibility in Owning a Free Gift."

I believe God's grace is a free gift as Scripture says (Ephesians 2:8). Gifts are received, and then we do works of responsibility to take care of those gifts.

Let me give you an example:
If Rick received a car as a free gift from his dad, does that mean he can run red lights, drive drunk, and hit pedestrians? No. If he were to do that, he would not have his gift for very long. Now, was his car any less a free gift because he had to do works of responsibility in possessing his free gift? No. Did Rick have to work at a job and get a loan to buy this car? No. It was a free gift from his dad.

Here is another example:
If Billy-Bob prayed for a wife for many years and he eventually receive a wife from the Lord and consider her as a gift, then that does not mean Billy-Bob can cheat on her and or not love her and expect for her to stay with him. It is the same with God. Disloyalty to GOD means we do not really love GOD and we just love ourselves more than Him. GOD calls us to obedience to His Word. This was the problem that goes all the way back to the Garden of Eden. But men today want to say that we can break God's commands and they will not die. This was the same lie that the enemy was trying to sell Eve on. The serpent told her that she would not die if she ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Which was a violation of God's command).

Anyways, in conclusion: We know that working like at a job (trading dollars for hours) is not the same as doing "Works of responsibility in owning a free gift." Paul is not talking about responsibility in possessing Jesus Christ (Who is our gift). Paul is talking about trying to earn your salvation by a system of "Works Salvationism Alone" that did not include God's grace at all. But men today confuse the issue to justify sin under God’s grace (Which is what Jude 1:4 warns against).

 

[BrotherJJ]

Four writers John, Luke, Peter & Paul testify to FAITH ALONE

Jn 3:36 He who believes and trusts in the Son and accepts Him [as Savior] has eternal life [that is, already possesses it]; but he who does not believe the Son and chooses to reject Him, [disobeying Him and denying Him as Savior] will not see [eternal] life, but [instead] the wrath of God hangs over him continually.”
(MY NOTE: Anyone that places their FAITH in the Son HAS RIGHT NOW eternal life)

Jn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
(MY NOTE: The GIFT of ETERNAL LIFE is given to he who has FAITH on the Son)

Jn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
(MY NOTE: He that has FAITH in Christ & believes the Father sent Him "HAS" [present tense] ETERNAL LIFE.)

Jn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
(MY NOTE: ETERNAL LIFE is GIVEN to he who has FAITH in the Son)

Jn 14:
16 And I will ask the Father, and He will give you another [c]Helper (Comforter, Advocate, Intercessor—Counselor, Strengthener, Standby), to be with you forever—
MY NOTE: Believers in the Son will be "given" the Holy Spirit . Who will be with you FOREVER)

17 the Spirit of Truth, whom the world cannot receive [and take to its heart] because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He (the Holy Spirit) remains with you continually and will be in you.
(MY NOTE: The Spirit of Truth GIVEN to ALL believers remains with then continually)

1 Jn 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God [which represents all that Jesus Christ is and does], so that you will know [with settled and absolute knowledge] that you [already] have eternal life.
(MY NOTE: Those who BELIEVE in the Son of God ALREADY have eternal life)

LUKE & PETER:
Acts 10:
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit falls on gentiles, void of any strings beyond FAITH)

45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: By FAITH ALONE these gentiles received the free gift of God's eternally indwelling, salvation sealing Holy Spirit.)

Acts 11:
16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
(MY NOTE: Only Christ baptizes with His salvation sealing, eternal life giving Holy Spirit)

17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
(MY NOTE: Those that believed/had FAITH on the Lord Jesus Christ. Freely received Christ's salvation sealing Holy Spirit baptism!)

Acts 13:48 When the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying [praising and giving thanks for] the word of the Lord; and all those who had been appointed (designated, ordained) to eternal life [by God] believed [in Jesus as the Christ and their Savior].

Acts 13:52 And the disciples were continually filled [throughout their hearts and souls] with joy and with the Holy Spirit.
(MY NOTE: Living disciples were continually filled by/with Jesus salvation sealing, eternal life giving Holy Spirit.)

Acts 15:
8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
(MY NOTE: Christ knows every persons true heart & GAVE these gentiles His salvation sealing, eternal life giving Holy Spirit.. Next verse by cites by FAITH ALONE!)

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
(MY NOTE: Thru FAITH ALONE these BELIEVING were PURIFIED/GIVEN CHRIST'S FOREVER SALVATION SEALING HOLY SPIRIT thru FAITH ALOVE)

PAUL:
Rom 5:
1 Therefore, since we have been justified [that is, acquitted of sin, declared blameless before God] by faith, [let us grasp the fact that] we have peace with God [and the joy of reconciliation with Him] through our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed).
(MY NOTE: We/BELIEVERS - Rom 1:7 - Have been <past tense) justified = Judicially declared/pronounced rigtheous by a sovereign creator God thru FAITH ALONE)

2 Through Him we also have access by faith into this [remarkable state of] grace in which we [firmly and safely and securely] stand. Let us rejoice in our [a]hope and the confident assurance of [experiencing and enjoying] the glory of [our great] God [the manifestation of His excellence and power].

Rom 3:26 It was to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the One who justifies those who have faith in Jesus [and rely confidently on Him as Savior].
(MY NOTE: Jesus the justifier; Judicially declared/pronounced the believer rigtheous thru FAITH ALONE)

Rom 4:5 But to the one who does not work [that is, the one who does not try to earn his salvation by doing good], but believes and completely trusts in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited to him as righteousness (right standing with God).
(MY NOTE: He that believes on Jesus, the justifier. Thru FAITH ALONE is pronounced rigtheous/placed in a right standing with God).

Eph 2:
8 For it is by grace [God’s remarkable compassion and favor drawing you to Christ] that you have been saved [actually delivered from judgment and given eternal life] through faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [not through your own effort], but it is the [undeserved, gracious] gift of God;
(MY NOTE: Salvation is accessed by Grace thru FAITH)

Jude 1:
24 Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling or falling into sin, and to present you unblemished [blameless and faultless] in the presence of His glory with triumphant joy and unspeakable delight,
(MY NOTE: It's Christ that's able to keep you, not our self-works)

JOY
Acts 13:52 And the disciples were continually filled [throughout their hearts and souls] with joy and with the Holy Spirit.

Rom 15:13 May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing [through the experience of your faith] that by the power of the Holy Spirit you will abound in hope and overflow with confidence in His promises

 

[lanceleo]

Let me give you an example:
If Rick received a car as a free gift from his dad, does that mean he can run red lights, drive drunk, and hit pedestrians? No. If he were to do that, he would not have his gift for very long. Now, was his car any less a free gift because he had to do works of responsibility in possessing his free gift? No. Did Rick have to work at a job and get a loan to buy this car? No. It was a free gift from his dad.

If we have to do works of responsibility to maintain our gifts, it cannot be called free gifts anymore. A gift is something which is freely offered. No payment or works can be involved, or the “gift'' becomes a "purchase" — something which has been bought.

There's nowhere in scripture that says our gifts will be taken from us if they are abused. The parable of the wicked servant whose talents are taken when the owner comes back is a depiction of the judgement of his people when Jesus returns.

 

[Guojing]

*Sigh* Obviously I was referring to your question and not my own.
Why on Earth would I be attacking my own question? That makes no sense whatsoever.
Please, if you reply, try to use Scripture in your comments or replies. If not, then you are venturing into the world of babbling nonsense of spiritism (Whereby one believes their thoughts becomes God thoughts).

Isaiah 55:8 (KJB)
”For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.”

In short, please include a Bible verse or passage as the basis of your questions or comments that you believe refutes what I believe the Bible plainly teaches. If not, then there is no real reason to have any kind of Bible discussion between one another. I am primarily here to talk about the Bible. If that is not currently your thing at the moment, then we can politely part ways and move on from any further discourse here.

In any case, whether you agree or disagree, may God bless you.

My question is symmetric to yours.

So if mine is foolish, by symmetry...

 

[Guojing]

Gotquestions article says that a true Christian who has backslidden into a life of sin is still saved.
This means that a believer can live in habitual sin and still be saved.

An unbeliever can live in "habitual goodness" and still remain an unbeliever, would you agree?

 

[Strong in Him]

You said, I quote:

”But wanting to return, calling out to God, ​

regretting your previous actions; that's different.” ​

~ Quote by: Strong in Him.​

Yes, I wrote that - 5 pages ago in response to another post.
So why did you quote from my post #425, and then refer to something I wrote in post #339?

Regretting one’s actions would be a mirage or an illusion because one is not really changing one’s actions to begin with

I wrote those words in response to a post by you about apostasy.
I said, in post 339, that if someone has known God's love, chosen to reject it, continued to do so and refuses to repent, their hearts may be hardened and they find that they can't.
But showing regret, or sorrow, for one's actions and calling out to God for help is different - it shows that still have a conscience/are still able to be convicted by the Spirit. Their hearts have not become hardened, they are still able to cry out to God for help.

But seeing you take the “sin and still be saved viewpoint” on 1 John 1:8, I must conclude you are not for holy living as the Bible teaches it.

Your conclusion would be completely false.
I have never said that being saved gives people a license to save, as you seem to think. In fact, I have asked you to show me Christians who have been saved, forgiven, filled with God's love and who have deliberately said, "right, now that I am saved, I am going to continue to sin and hurt God".
You have not been able to do that, and seem to have ignored that comment - most likely because there is no evidence of Christians deliberately, knowingly and purposefully continuing to ABIDE in sin after they have been saved.

If you're saying that people who become Christians never sin ever again, while living in sinful bodies in a sinful world; that's not true.
I'd like it to be true, but it isn't.
I'm not perfect 24/7 in thought, word, deed, desire, dreams etc - and I don't believe you are either.

And I'm sorry but I'm not replying to your other posts because a) they are long and confusing and b) you seem to be answering a view which I do not hold.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Justification/salvation comes/is accessed through Faith!

Rom 3:28 Therefore """we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the deeds of the law""".

Rom 5:1 Therefore being JUSTIFIED by FAITH, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Rom 3:28 Therefore """we conclude that a man is JUSTIFIED by FAITH without the deeds of the law""".

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED by FAITH.

Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one """God, which shall JUSTIFY the circumcision by FAITH, and uncircumcision through FAITH.

Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that JUSTIFIETH the ungodly, his FAITH is counted for righteousness.

Gal 3:8 And the scripture, """foreseeing that God would JUSTIFY the heathen through FAITH""", preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a """MAN is NOT JUSTIFIED by the works of the law""", but by the FAITH of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be JUSTIFIED by the FAITH of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Faith is the conduit to ALL God's blessings!

Rom 3:25 """Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through FAITH in his blood""", to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
(MY NOTE: They HEARD, they BELIEVED the good news of Jesus sin atoning death & Jesus SEALED them with His ETERNAL LIFE giving Holy Spirit)

Eph 2:8 For by GRACE are ye SAVED through FAITH; and that not of yourselves: it is the GIFT of God:

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have ACCESS by FAITH into this GRACE wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, """purifying their hearts by FAITH""".

Rom 4:16 Therefore it is of FAITH, that it might be by GRACE; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the FAITH of Abraham; who is the father of us all,

Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by FAITH in Christ Jesus.

Acts 14:27 And when they were come, and had gathered the church together, they rehearsed all that God had done with them, and how """he had opened the door of FAITH unto the Gentiles""".

Matt 9:22 But Jesus turned him about, and when he saw her, he said, Daughter, be of good comfort; """thy FAITH hath made thee whole""". And the woman was made whole from that hour.

Matt 9:29 Then touched he their eyes, saying, """According to your FAITH be it unto you""".

Lk 5:20 And when """he saw their FAITH, he said unto him, Man, thy sins are forgiven thee""".

Lk 18:42 And Jesus said unto him, """Receive thy sight: thy FAITH hath saved thee""".

Acts 6:8 """And Stephen, full of FAITH""" and power, did great wonders and miracles among the people.

Acts 11:24 For """he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of FAITH""": and much people was added unto the Lord.

Acts 16:5 And so were """the churches established in the FAITH""", and increased in number daily

Rom 4:9 Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that FAITH was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

Gal 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of FAITH, the same are the children of Abraham.

Gal 3:9 So then they which be of FAITH are blessed with FAITHFUL Abraham.

Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the FAITH of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by FAITH:

Heb 11:6 But without FAITH it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must BELIEVE that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Heb 11:8 By FAITH Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

2 Samuel 12:10

“Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.”​

John 14:23-24

“Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.”​

Proverbs 13:13

“Whoso despiseth the word shall be destroyed: but he that feareth the commandment shall be rewarded.”​

Isaiah 8:20

“To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.”​

 

[BrotherJJ]

2 Sam & Isa are written to Jews under Mosaic law.

Matt 15:24 Messiah answered & said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
(SCRIPTURE PROCLAIMS: Jesus was sent, ONLY, to the lost sheep of the ""House of Israel"")

Rom 15:8 I say that Messiah was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:
(SCRIPTURE PROCLAIMS: Messiah was sent to minister to the circumcision/JEWS, To fulfil OT promises made to the Hebrew fathers)

Acts 11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
(MY NOTE: This is after Stephens death (6 yrs after Jesus death & resurrection) these Jewish converts that had fled Israel. Running for their lives from law zealots like Saul. They are still only sharing Christ with other Jews!).

Acts 10:28 Peter said unto them, Ye know how that it is an """unlawful""" thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean
(BTW: Jesus died on the cross 7 yrs before Peter tells Cornelius (an Italian/gentile) "IT'S UNLAWFUL" for a Jew to hang out with a gentile, Jesus faithfully kept the law)

Matt 15:26 Jesus said; It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
(BTW Jesus calls this gentile woman of Canaan (that He helped) a dog. Jews often referred to Gentiles as "dogs" Matt 7:6 )

Gal 4:
4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
(SCRIPTURE PROCLAIMS: God sent forth his Son """made under the law""" to """redeem those under the law/JEWS""")

Jesus's in the flesh mission was to the lost sheep of the ""House of Israel"" ONLY!

Gentiles were (like dogs) considered ungodly/unclean (living outside of covenant seals & purification laws). Just being in their presence could make a Jew ceremonially unclean (Jn 18:28)

A/the new covenant doesn't/can't begin until after Jesus dies.

Heb 9:
16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.
(MY NOTE: Jesus kept, lived, taught & fulfilled the old covenant Mosaic laws. There can be no new covenant until after Jesus (the Testator) dies.

Study tips from a pro:
Myles Coverdale; Bible theologian/translator. He wrote the Coverdale Bible. Say's don't judge scripture by what is spoken, or written only.

When dissecting any verse of scripture. Ask yourself, of whom, to whom, with what words, what time, where, to what intent, with what circumstances, considering what is written before and what follows any single verse context.

Who was preaching? JESUS, John & the 12!
Who was Jesus preaching to? JEWS UNDER THE LAW! Reread Matt 15:24, Rom 15:8 above.
What's the timeframe? PRE-DEATH!
Where? ISRAEL!
To what intent? REDEEM THOSE UNDER THE LAW/JEWS! Reread Gal 4:4-5 above.

Jesus earthly mission was to/for Israel ONLY! This message is void of Jesus sin atoning death & resurrection. The OT God given Levitical animal sacrificial system dealt with (covered) Israel's sin.

Gentiles had NO PART in the All Jewish gospel of the kingdom message.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Chop, slice, and dice. Do whatever it takes to not obey God. Convenient that one is not living in that dispensation that would require you to live holy as a part of entering the Kingdom. I imagine that if those who are Mid Acts today were living under such a dispensation (that would require them to live holy), they would find a way to distort His Word to not live holy during that time, as well. Mid Acts is just an excuse and it will not work come Judgment Day. Verses have already been shown that demolish this belief.

While we are not under the 613 laws of Moses as a whole or package deal (For example, we do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, holy days, animal sacrifices, etcetera), that does not mean that the moral law in doing good does not apply. Believers must obey God today under the New Covenant. They are to do things like, love God, love their neighbor, love their brother, and love their enemies. The apostle Paul made it clear that various sins can cause us not to inherit the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul said if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). Then there is the dreaded 1 Timothy 5:8 that many in this thread are ignoring, as well.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Blah, blah, blah

Saving FAITH will lead (via Christ' indwelling Spirit) to good works/obedience

Rom 1:5 "Through him we received grace" & apostleship "to call all the Gentiles to the obedience" "that comes from faith" for his name’s sake
(MY NOTE: A Gentiles Faith leads to obedience)

Rom 16:26 Now revealed & made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, "so that all the Gentiles might come to the obedience," "that comes from faith"
(MY NOTE: A Gentiles obedience is a direct result of their Faith)

Acts 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life
(MY NOTE: God GRANTED/GIVES believing gentiles repentance that leads to good works)

When Faith is the root obedience & good works will be the fruit.

Good works are the evidences of faith not the cause of salvation.

The apostle Paul taught ETERNAL SECURITY:

Scripture proclaims believers are RIGHT NOW FORVER SEALED by God via His Holy Spirit.

Scripture disagrees with your interpretation, actual Greek to English translators (below) disagree with your interpretation. It's now a hard choice (for me) who has it right. You have it wrong!

The Holy Spirit is the new covenant Seal/promise from Christ. His blood has purified the believer & takes away every one of there sins Past-Present-Future!

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: definition - SEAL
English "seal" = Greek "sphragizo" context as a verb - Strongs ref #4972
(d) ownership and security, three indications are conveyed in Ephesians 1:13 , in the metaphor of the "sealing" of believers by the gift of the Holy Spirit, upon believing (i.e., at the time of their regeneration, not after a lapse of time in their spiritual life, "having also believed," "after that ye believed;" the aorist (TENSE) participle marks the definiteness and completeness of the act of faith); the idea of destination is stressed by the phrase "the Holy Spirit of promise" (see also Ephesians 1:14 ); so Ephesians 4:30 , "ye were sealed unto the day of redemption;"

(MY NOTE: Vines translators define SEAL (Eph 1:13-4, 4:30) as: OWNERSHIP & SECURITY. Christ's FOREVER SEALING (Jn 14:16) GIFT (Acts 10:45, 11:17) of His indwelling Holy Spirit (Rom 8:11, 1Cor 3:16, 2 Tim 1:14). Given upon/at the moment Christ JUSTIFIES/seals (Rom 3:24-26) the believer, thru FAITH. Placed in the Lords sin atoning work. VINE's translators say: This SEAL (aorist TENSE participle) marks the definiteness & completeness of the act of faith. Jesus is the author & finisher of our faith (Heb 12:2)

Find here the verses Vines translators cite as applicable to the word: SEAL:

Eph 1:
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words - [ 1,,G728, arrabon ] (Noun) EARNEST:
originally, earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14, particularly of their eternal inheritance.

(MY NOTE: EARNEST denotes a DEVINE PLEDGE. The giving of the Holy Spirit as the DIVINE PLEDGE. An ASSURENCE given by God, of all their future blessedness, particularly of their ETERNAL LIFE inheritance. This promise read below: God HAS GIVEN/DONE DEAL!)

Find here the verses Vines translators cite as applicable to the word: EARNEST

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit

Eph 1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession

(MY NOTE: Christ's Holy Spirit, given to every believer at the moment of conversion/when the believer is SEALED. Is God's proof/guarantee of ownership & security. Christ's pledge/promise And He's completely trust worthy & proved it on the cross. That believers are a purchased (with His perpetually cleansing God blood sacrifice) possession & HAVE BEEN GIVEN/DONE DEAL/ETERNAL LIFE. If one can loose this ETERNAL LIFE GIFT (Acts 10:45, 11:17) thru sinning/non-abiding WHATEVER, then it isn't ETERNAL after all. JJ

 

[Guojing]

Chop, slice, and dice. Do whatever it takes to not obey God. Convenient that one is not living in that dispensation that would require you to live holy as a part of entering the Kingdom. I imagine that if those who are Mid Acts today were living under such a dispensation (that would require them to live holy), they would find a way to distort His Word to not live holy during that time, as well. Mid Acts is just an excuse and it will not work come Judgment Day. Verses have already been shown that demolish this belief.

While we are not under the 613 laws of Moses as a whole or package deal (For example, we do not have to keep the Saturday Sabbath, circumcision, dietary laws, holy days, animal sacrifices, etcetera), that does not mean that the moral law in doing good does not apply. Believers must obey God today under the New Covenant. They are to do things like, love God, love their neighbor, love their brother, and love their enemies. The apostle Paul made it clear that various sins can cause us not to inherit the Kingdom of God (Galatians 5:19-21). Paul said if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing (1 Timothy 6:3-4). Then there is the dreaded 1 Timothy 5:8 that many in this thread are ignoring, as well.

But you don't even obey Luke 12:33 even when Jesus said that, so you are also doing the same "Chop, slice, and dice" =)

 

[Strong in Him]

2 Samuel 12:10

“Now therefore the sword shall never depart from thine house; because thou hast despised me, and hast taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be thy wife.”​

?? What does that show?
David repented, was called a king after God's own heart and God made a covenant with him.
Jesus was descended from David.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

?? What does that show?
David repented, was called a king after God's own heart and God made a covenant with him.
Jesus was descended from David.

What this shows is that during this sinful period of his life, David was disobedient to God, and thus, he was not saved. Therefore, salvation is conditional; Unless, of course, you are claiming David was saved while he murdered and committed adultery.

 

[Strong in Him]

What this shows is that during this sinful period of his life, David was disobedient to God, and thus, he was not saved. Therefore, salvation is conditional; Unless, of course, you are claiming David was saved while he murdered and committed adultery.

Saved from what?
David still knew God, and was known by him. He wasn't saved from eternal separation with God - Jesus had not then been born or died and that was not possible.
And you talk about the "sinful period" of his life: David was never perfect.
When he was trying to escape from Saul, in the years before he became king, he actually went and lived with the Philistines - Israel's enemies. He then deliberately acted like a mad man so that they would not kill him; what happened to trusting God to protect him (God's next king) from Saul?
He can't be entirely blamed for his children's behaviour - his son raped his daughter, then another son killed him - but it doesn't sound as though he managed his family vey well. So much so that Absalom plainly told the people that he wanted to rule, the people sided with him and David had to flee.
Towards the end of his life David took a census of the people. The Lord rebuked him, David said that he had sinned and the Lord told him to choose a punishment.

David was called a king after God's own heart because when he sinned, he repented, trusted and continued to walk with God all his life - NOT because he became perfect.