Justification by Faith

[BrotherJJ]

It was because of the Mosaic Law that Paul persecuted Christians most of which were Jews. Like Stephen for example.

Not sure what that has to do with anything we've discussed. Paul was persecuting them because He was a law zealot & believed their belief in Jesus was blasphemous.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not sure what that has to do with anything we've discussed. Paul was persecuting them because He was a law zealot & believed their belief in Jesus was blasphemous.

The point was that Paul was upholding the Mosaic Law. The book of Hebrews is not.

 

[BrotherJJ]

More than some Mosaic converts. Hebrews recognizes Jesus as The high priest, Mosaic law most assuredly does not. Worship of Christ is NOT Mosaic law. Christ's sacrifice is not Mosaic law.

Now maybe more then some. When this epistle is written very few. Faith come by hearing er-go the need for a preacher. .

Heb 1:1 God, having spoken to the fathers long ago in [the voices and writings of] the prophets in many separate revelations [each of which set forth a portion of the truth], and in many ways,
(MY NOTE: The book opens here, we can't paint non-Hebrew Christians into this verse. God, who spake in time past unto the """fathers by the prophets""".)

Many revelations from old covenant precepts & people are main thoughts throughout the epistle.

The vast majority of Jews during that time frame rejected Jesus as Messiah. With that in mind the writers Christian Hebrew audience would very small. So, if the target audience is non-believing Hebrews. The author stands to reap a much greater conversion reward.

 

[Der Alte]

Now maybe more then some. When this epistle is written very few. Faith come by hearing er-go the need for a preacher. .
Heb 1:1 God, having spoken to the fathers long ago in [the voices and writings of] the prophets in many separate revelations [each of which set forth a portion of the truth], and in many ways,
(MY NOTE: The book opens here, we can't paint non-Hebrew Christians into this verse. God, who spake in time past unto the """fathers by the prophets""".)

The "Fathers" are also the "Fathers" of gentile Christians.

Many revelations from old covenant precepts & people are main thoughts throughout the epistle.

Such as?

The vast majority of Jews during that time frame rejected Jesus as Messiah. With that in mind the writers Christian Hebrew audience would very small. So, if the target audience is non-believing Hebrews. The author stands to reap a much greater conversion reward.

Would the writer of Hebrews be writing to non-Christian Jews, who OBTW persecuted Christians everywhere and would they even read it? Paul was persecuted for preaching Jesus everywhere he went.
The below passage is most certainly addressed to Christian Jews, who had been sanctified by the blood of covenant and not Torah observant Jews..

Hebrews 10:28-31
(28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
(31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​

 

[BNR32FAN]

Not sure what that has to do with anything we've discussed. Paul was persecuting them because He was a law zealot & believed their belief in Jesus was blasphemous.

You never answered my question about Galatians 5:4.

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Are these people still saved?

 

[BrotherJJ]

You never answered my question about Galatians 5:4.

“You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5‬:‭4‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Are these people still saved?

LOL, look at the book you chose to apply your failed salvation message message.

Paul's epistle to the Galatians is a vigorous attack against to doctrine of works.

Sower parable they weren't good soil. They were informed about the grace of God (Jesu the Christ) & rejected it/Him. Went back you their law loving way's (you should understand that. Falling short of all the blessings that awaited the right decision)

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
(MY NOTE: Grace has a Name, it's Jesus the Christ)

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

These people were never saved!

Last time I play this game. You don't address anything I ask & I'm done following you down every rabbit hole, you ignorantly try to apply to your unscriptural salvation by works doctrine.

 

[BNR32FAN]

LOL, look at the book you chose to apply your failed salvation message message.

Paul's epistle to the Galatians is a vigorous attack against to doctrine of works.

Sower parable they weren't good soil. They were informed about the grace of God (Jesu the Christ) & rejected it/Him. Went back you their law loving way's (you should understand that. Falling short of all the blessings that awaited the right decision)

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
(MY NOTE: Grace has a Name, it's Jesus the Christ)

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

These people were never saved!

Last time I play this game. You don't address anything I ask & I'm done following you down every rabbit hole, you ignorantly try to apply to your unscriptural salvation by works doctrine.

I just addressed every verse you posted yesterday.

“In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭1‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬

The Holy Spirit being given as a promise or a pledge of our inheritance means we have entered into God’s covenant. It means God is guaranteed to keep His part of the agreement if we keep our part and abide in Christ. It doesn’t mean we can believe for a while then fall away and continuously grieve the Spirit and expect God to honor an agreement that we ourselves broke.

God blesses people all the time, that doesn’t mean they cannot once again become children of wrath. There’s no promise of salvation in that verse.

Why did you omit the first portion of that verse?

“Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4‬:‭30‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

What does Paul say just 3 sentences after this?

“Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma. But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5‬:‭1‬-‭6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Now this is a very important question to the discussion. Is Paul telling them that they will be saved no matter what they do?

“Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭1‬:‭21‬-‭22‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

There are two key words here “in Christ”. Are we remaining in Christ if we turn away from believing in Him? Are we remaining in Christ when we ignore His teachings?

“Retain the standard of sound words which you have heard from me, in the faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭1‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

You quoted 2 Timothy 2:14 but verse 13 was actually actually contains the condition for verse 14. Again it’s contingent upon the person being “in Christ”.

2 Corinthians 5:5 is the same pledge of the New Covenant. You have to understand that the Covenant is based on us abiding in Christ. If we fail to do so then we have voided the agreement.

How can they be severed from Christ and fallen from grace if they were never saved to begin with? How could they have been running so well as Paul stated? A person can’t be severed from Christ if they were never attached to Him and they can’t fall from grace if God had never bestowed His grace upon them.

 

[BNR32FAN]

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

John wrote this about antichrists, not people who were attached to Christ.

 

[BrotherJJ]

How can they be severed from Christ and fallen from grace if they were never saved to begin with? A person can’t be severed from Christ if they were never attached to Him and they can’t fall from grace if God had never bestowed His grace upon them.

 

[BrotherJJ]

1st, Chapter 5 context is a chapter 4 continuation. Chapter 4 makes it clear law & grace don't/can't be mixed. Also,

2nd, Severed SYNONYMS = detached - disconnected - separated

You say they had to be a Christian/part of Christ in order to be severed.

Every unbeliever (that has NEVER been a believer) is SEVERED/detached/disconnected/separated from God

Gal 5:4
1 It was for this freedom that Christ set us free [completely liberating us]; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery [which you once removed].
(MY NOTE: NT believers are under Gods liberating freedom > grace. Not under OT law demanded requirements/WORKS!)

2 Notice, it is I, Paul, who tells you that if you receive circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], Christ will be of no benefit to you [for you will lack the faith in Christ that is necessary for salvation].
(MY NOTE: Context here: If you applying circumcision (an OT/OC law mandate) as requirement of salvation. You lack FAITH & therefore are/remain in unbelief! Never saved!)

3 Once more I solemnly affirm to every man who receives circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], that he is under obligation and required to keep the whole Law.
(MY NOTE: Context making circumcision as a requirement for salvation. Places you under ALL the laws demanded works requirements)

4 You have been severed from Christ, if you seek to be justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing with God] through the Law; you have fallen from grace [for you have lost your grasp on God’s unmerited favor and blessing].

5 For we [not relying on the Law but] through the [strength and power of the Holy] Spirit, by faith, are waiting [confidently] for the hope of righteousness [the completion of our salvation].
(MY NOTE: Anyone trying to obtain salvation thru Mosaic law keeping. Doesn't grasp/understand the grace of God (accessed by faith) & therefore falls short of the superior blessings found via grace)

Help from the OP Post #1:
Rom 3:

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
(MY NOTE: Every unbelieving sinner falls short short of the glory & grace of God)

Finally:
Matt 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
MY NOTE: These wicked that are being severed/separated were never saved either!)

You're free to believe & promote whatever you choose & so am I. WE DISAGREE! I don't think that makes you a heretic (you accessed me of being one) you also repeatedly falsely claimed I throw out scripture (a false witness). I interpret & apply it differently then you. We are never going to see eye to eye. This is the last time I'll respond to any of your cited differences with my beliefs.

I will respond to any replies as an opportunity to promote my beliefs. I will reply by reposting #347, #357, #322, #337, #310,311, #319, #266, #274, #246, #252, #130, #102, #119, #98, #61, 57, #24, #27, #30, #32, #38. Best wishes, JJ

 

[BNR32FAN]

1st, Chapter 5 context is a chapter 4 continuation. Chapter 4 makes it clear law & grace don't/can't be mixed. Also,

2nd, Severed SYNONYMS = detached - disconnected - separated

You say they had to be a Christian/part of Christ in order to be severed.

Every unbeliever (that has NEVER been a believer) is SEVERED/detached/disconnected/separated from God

Gal 5:4
1 It was for this freedom that Christ set us free [completely liberating us]; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery [which you once removed].
(MY NOTE: NT believers are under Gods liberating freedom > grace. Not under OT law demanded requirements/WORKS!)

2 Notice, it is I, Paul, who tells you that if you receive circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], Christ will be of no benefit to you [for you will lack the faith in Christ that is necessary for salvation].
(MY NOTE: Context here: If you applying circumcision (an OT/OC law mandate) as requirement of salvation. You lack FAITH & therefore are/remain in unbelief! Never saved!)

3 Once more I solemnly affirm to every man who receives circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], that he is under obligation and required to keep the whole Law.
(MY NOTE: Context making circumcision as a requirement for salvation. Places you under ALL the laws demanded works requirements)

4 You have been severed from Christ, if you seek to be justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing with God] through the Law; you have fallen from grace [for you have lost your grasp on God’s unmerited favor and blessing].

5 For we [not relying on the Law but] through the [strength and power of the Holy] Spirit, by faith, are waiting [confidently] for the hope of righteousness [the completion of our salvation].
(MY NOTE: Anyone trying to obtain salvation thru Mosaic law keeping. Doesn't grasp/understand the grace of God (accessed by faith) & therefore falls short of the superior blessings found via grace)

Help from the OP Post #1:
Rom 3:

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
(MY NOTE: Every unbelieving sinner falls short short of the glory & grace of God)

Finally:
Matt 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
MY NOTE: These wicked that are being severed/separated were never saved either!)

You're free to believe & promote whatever you choose & so am I. WE DISAGREE! I don't think that makes you a heretic (you accessed me of being one) you also repeatedly falsely claimed I throw out scripture (a false witness). I interpret & apply it differently then you. We are never going to see eye to eye. This is the last time I'll respond to any of your cited differences with my beliefs.

I will respond to any replies as an opportunity to promote my beliefs. I will reply by reposting #347, #357, #322, #337, #310,311, #319, #266, #274, #246, #252, #130, #102, #119, #98, #61, 57, #24, #27, #30, #32, #38. Best wishes, JJ

Ok I noticed you didn’t address my question about why Paul said they were running so well in verse 7. Also he refers to them as brethren. Another thing is those who were never in Christ are never referred to as brethren and Christ Himself says that He never knew such people. Furthermore Paul tells them to walk in the Spirit in verse 18 so apparently they were believers otherwise he wouldn’t be telling them to walk in the Spirit he would be telling them to believe because they can’t walk in the Spirit until after they believe.

 

[BNR32FAN]

1st, Chapter 5 context is a chapter 4 continuation. Chapter 4 makes it clear law & grace don't/can't be mixed. Also,

2nd, Severed SYNONYMS = detached - disconnected - separated

You say they had to be a Christian/part of Christ in order to be severed.

Every unbeliever (that has NEVER been a believer) is SEVERED/detached/disconnected/separated from God

Gal 5:4
1 It was for this freedom that Christ set us free [completely liberating us]; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery [which you once removed].
(MY NOTE: NT believers are under Gods liberating freedom > grace. Not under OT law demanded requirements/WORKS!)

2 Notice, it is I, Paul, who tells you that if you receive circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], Christ will be of no benefit to you [for you will lack the faith in Christ that is necessary for salvation].
(MY NOTE: Context here: If you applying circumcision (an OT/OC law mandate) as requirement of salvation. You lack FAITH & therefore are/remain in unbelief! Never saved!)

3 Once more I solemnly affirm to every man who receives circumcision [as a supposed requirement of salvation], that he is under obligation and required to keep the whole Law.
(MY NOTE: Context making circumcision as a requirement for salvation. Places you under ALL the laws demanded works requirements)

4 You have been severed from Christ, if you seek to be justified [that is, declared free of the guilt of sin and its penalty, and placed in right standing with God] through the Law; you have fallen from grace [for you have lost your grasp on God’s unmerited favor and blessing].

5 For we [not relying on the Law but] through the [strength and power of the Holy] Spirit, by faith, are waiting [confidently] for the hope of righteousness [the completion of our salvation].
(MY NOTE: Anyone trying to obtain salvation thru Mosaic law keeping. Doesn't grasp/understand the grace of God (accessed by faith) & therefore falls short of the superior blessings found via grace)

Help from the OP Post #1:
Rom 3:

20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
(MY NOTE: Every unbelieving sinner falls short short of the glory & grace of God)

Finally:
Matt 13:49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,
MY NOTE: These wicked that are being severed/separated were never saved either!)

You're free to believe & promote whatever you choose & so am I. WE DISAGREE! I don't think that makes you a heretic (you accessed me of being one) you also repeatedly falsely claimed I throw out scripture (a false witness). I interpret & apply it differently then you. We are never going to see eye to eye. This is the last time I'll respond to any of your cited differences with my beliefs.

I will respond to any replies as an opportunity to promote my beliefs. I will reply by reposting #347, #357, #322, #337, #310,311, #319, #266, #274, #246, #252, #130, #102, #119, #98, #61, 57, #24, #27, #30, #32, #38. Best wishes, JJ

Hey you’re the one who started the false accusations by accusing me of preaching a works based salvation. So when you falsely accuse someone of preaching something they’ve told you that they don’t preach don’t be surprised if they respond in kind. I’ve stopped with the impolite comments days ago and am trying to have an honest polite discussion about the subject. Don’t run from the discussion now we’re just now finally making progress. You’re the one who claimed that once a person receives the Holy Spirit they are forever saved so prove it by explaining how that interpretation doesn’t contradict other verses of scripture.

 

[BNR32FAN]

1st, Chapter 5 context is a chapter 4 continuation. Chapter 4 makes it clear law & grace don't/can't be mixed. Also,

2nd, Severed SYNONYMS = detached - disconnected - separated

You say they had to be a Christian/part of Christ in order to be severed.

Every unbeliever (that has NEVER been a believer) is SEVERED/detached/disconnected/separated from God

“You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Apparently these “foolish Galatians” received the Holy Spirit. So I’ll ask again are they still saved?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That desire within them will be a prompting from God, who doesn't give up on us.

I think it depends on the type of believer.
If they think they can abide in sin that the Bible condemns with warnings of hellfire on some level (with the thinking they are saved), then they will by default disobey God's commands on some level or teach others to break them (by the problem in the teaching itself). Salvation is conditional and not unconditional. If a believer abides in sin they either have reverted back to a lost spiritual state, or they are in danger with God and His wrath (unless they repent).

Proverbs 28:9 says,
"He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination."

Granted, while this verse was in reference to the Old Law when it was written, I believe the truth of this verse applies today under the Laws of Christ.

Nothing can snatch us from God's hands.

And the context...

John 10:27
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: "

So the context of those who cannot be snatched out of the hand (singular) of the Father and the Son (Jesus) is referring to sheep that follow Jesus. It's not referring to rebellious sheep who refuse to follow Jesus and do their own thing or justify sin and think they are saved by a belief alone in Jesus (Without any change in conduct to follow Jesus and His commands).

Yes, if someone were to deliberately reject God's love - having first experienced it - continued to do so and refused to repent, their hearts may become hardened so they could not return.
But wanting to return, calling out to God, regretting your previous actions; that's different.
If someone turns away from the faith but later wants to return, I believe they can.

Hebrews 6:4-6
"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. "

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Hey you’re the one who started the false accusations by accusing me of preaching a works based salvation. So when you falsely accuse someone of preaching something they’ve told you that they don’t preach don’t be surprised if they respond in kind. I’ve stopped with the impolite comments days ago and am trying to have an honest polite discussion about the subject. Don’t run from the discussion now we’re just now finally making progress. You’re the one who claimed that once a person receives the Holy Spirit they are forever saved so prove it by explaining how that interpretation doesn’t contradict other verses of scripture.

While Christians are initially and foundationally saved by God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ without works (Ephesians 2:8-9) (Titus 3:5), I believe they must be fruitful and live holy as a part of the secondary aspect of salvation (Which is the Sanctification of the Spirit) (2 Thessalonians 2:13) (Galatians 6:8-9) (Romans 8:13). While I believe a person can be saved on their deathbed by God's grace, if believers live out their faith, and they are given chances to be sanctified, and they refuse to be sanctified, they are not going to make it into the Kingdom of God. The Parable of the Talents is clear that the unprofitable servant will be cast into outer darkness. John the Baptist said the axe is laid to the root of the tree and one is to bring forth fruits worthy of repentance (i.e., one seeking forgiveness with the Lord). Without holiness, no man shall see the Lord.

Narrow is the way and few be there that find it.

Many today are following the belief in Jesus alone and one can sin and still be saved on some level.
Clearly, this is not the narrow way. How on Earth they cannot see this simple truth in Scripture is beyond me.

 

[BrotherJJ]

Ok I noticed you didn’t address my question about why Paul said they were running so well in verse 7. Also he refers to them as brethren. Another thing is those who were never in Christ are never referred to as brethren and Christ Himself says that He never knew such people. Furthermore Paul tells them to walk in the Spirit in verse 18 so apparently they were believers otherwise he wouldn’t be telling them to walk in the Spirit he would be telling them to believe because they can’t walk in the Spirit until after they believe.

Scripture proclaims believers are RIGHT NOW FORVER SEALED by God via His Holy Spirit.

Scripture disagrees with your interpretation, actual Greek to English translators (below) disagree with your interpretation. It's now a hard choice (for me) who has it right. You have it wrong!

The Holy Spirit is the new covenant Seal/promise from Christ. His blood has purified the believer & takes away every one of there sins Past-Present-Future!

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: definition - SEAL
English "seal" = Greek "sphragizo" context as a verb - Strongs ref #4972
(d) ownership and security, three indications are conveyed in Ephesians 1:13 , in the metaphor of the "sealing" of believers by the gift of the Holy Spirit, upon believing (i.e., at the time of their regeneration, not after a lapse of time in their spiritual life, "having also believed," "after that ye believed;" the aorist (TENSE) participle marks the definiteness and completeness of the act of faith); the idea of destination is stressed by the phrase "the Holy Spirit of promise" (see also Ephesians 1:14 ); so Ephesians 4:30 , "ye were sealed unto the day of redemption;"

(MY NOTE: Vines translators define SEAL (Eph 1:13-4, 4:30) as: OWNERSHIP & SECURITY. Christ's FOREVER SEALING (Jn 14:16) GIFT (Acts 10:45, 11:17) of His indwelling Holy Spirit (Rom 8:11, 1Cor 3:16, 2 Tim 1:14). Given upon/at the moment Christ JUSTIFIES/seals (Rom 3:24-26) the believer, thru FAITH. Placed in the Lords sin atoning work. VINE's translators say: This SEAL (aorist TENSE participle) marks the definiteness & completeness of the act of faith. Jesus is the author & finisher of our faith (Heb 12:2)

Find here the verses Vines translators cite as applicable to the word: SEAL:

Eph 1:
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words - [ 1,,G728, arrabon ] (Noun) EARNEST:
originally, earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14, particularly of their eternal inheritance.

(MY NOTE: EARNEST denotes a DEVINE PLEDGE. The giving of the Holy Spirit as the DIVINE PLEDGE. An ASSURENCE given by God, of all their future blessedness, particularly of their ETERNAL LIFE inheritance. This promise read below: God HAS GIVEN/DONE DEAL!)

Find here the verses Vines translators cite as applicable to the word: EARNEST

2 Cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us the "earnest" of the Spirit

Eph 1:14 Which is the "earnest" of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession

(MY NOTE: Christ's Holy Spirit, given to every believer at the moment of conversion/when the believer is SEALED. Is God's proof/guarantee of ownership & security. Christ's pledge/promise And He's completely trust worthy & proved it on the cross. That believers are a purchased (with His perpetually cleansing God blood sacrifice) possession & HAVE BEEN GIVEN/DONE DEAL/ETERNAL LIFE. If one can loose this GIFT (thru sinning/non-abiding WHATEVER) then it isn't ETERNAL. JJ

 

[BrotherJJ]

Hey you’re the one who started the false accusations by accusing me of preaching a works based salvation. So when you falsely accuse someone of preaching something they’ve told you that they don’t preach don’t be surprised if they respond in kind. I’ve stopped with the impolite comments days ago and am trying to have an honest polite discussion about the subject. Don’t run from the discussion now we’re just now finally making progress. You’re the one who claimed that once a person receives the Holy Spirit they are forever saved so prove it by explaining how that interpretation doesn’t contradict other verses of scripture.

Faith in the Lords spilled blood has purged/cleansed/removed ALL the believers sin (ITS FINISHED! YOU'RE FORGIVEN!).

Quit making sin (it's been dealt with) your doctrinal center piece. Make Christ, what He suffered & accomplished the doctrinal center piece.

KJ Bible Dictionary: FORGIV'EN - Pardoned remitted.
av1611.com
FORGIVEN - Definition from the KJV Dictionary
Definition of FORGIVEN from the King James Bible Dictionary
av1611.com

Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words: Forgiven - [ A-2,Verb,G5483, charizomai ]
"to bestow a favor unconditionally," is used of the act of "forgiveness," whether Divine, Ephesians 4:32; Colossians 2:13; Colossians 3:13; or human, Luke 7:42-Luke 7:43 (debt); 2 Corinthians 2:7, 2 Corinthians 2:10; 2 Corinthians 12:13; Ephesians 4:32 (1st mention)

King James Bible dictionary say's; believers sins are PARDONED!.

Vines Bible dictionary say's; the believers sin forgiveness is UNCONDITIONAL! Not! until the next time you slip/fall/sin. AMEN & Amen

Heb 9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.
(MY NOTE: Christ obtained ETERNAL REDEMPTION for us)

Heb 13:20 Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,
(MY NOTE: This new sin management covenant is EVERLASTING. Not just the next time to stumble N fall)

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
(MY NOTE: Christ PERFECTED FOREVER those He has sanctified)

Ps 37:28 (A) For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever,
(MY NOTE: He PRESERVES his saints FOREVER)

Rev 1:5 Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto Jesus Christ that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
(MY NOTE: ALL our sins washed/removed/forgiven. Also see Col 1:14 & 2:13)

Believers sins are forgiven & washed away. They are preserved & perfected via a Christ/God mediated everlasting covenant!

 

[BrotherJJ]

“You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Apparently these “foolish Galatians” received the Holy Spirit. So I’ll ask again are they still saved?

The eternal salvation sealing Gospel of Jesus the Christ: That Paul preached


1 Corinthians 15:
3 That Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4 That he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

HERES WHAT HAPPENS AT THE MOMENT YOU ACCEPT CHRIST:
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed "ye were sealed with that holy Spirit'' of promise
(NOTE: When you trusted/believed, you were "SEALED" by the HOLY SPIRIT, a promise of God)

Eph 1:14 Which is the down payment of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession
(NOTE: The HOLY SPIRIT the you were SEALED with is GODS down payment on your salvation)

At salvation God gives us the HOLY SPIRIT as:
A Seal, A Down Payment, A deposit, A Guard, A pledge. ITS A SALVATION GUARANTEE!

Eph 4:30 grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are "sealed" unto the day of redemption
(NOTE: Gods HOLY SPIRIT is a SEAL given unto you receive your incorruptible heavenly body (1 Cor 15:42-44-53) on the day of redemption)

2 Tim 1:14 The Holy Spirit who dwells within us, guard the good deposit entrusted to you
(NOTE: God gives us the HOLY SPIRIT as a DEPOSIT. To GUARD us until the final day of redemption)

2 cor 1:22 Who hath also "sealed us" & "given the earnest" of the Holy Spirit in our hearts
(NOTE: God has SEALED us with the earnist = a DOWN PAYMENT of His HOLY SPIRIT)

2 Cor 5:5 God, who also hath given unto us "the earnest" of the Spirit
(NOTE: God have given us the HOLY SPIRIT as the earnist = a DOWN PAYMENT)

Vines Expository Dictionary Earnest:
"Earnest English = Greek arrabon", noun, Strongs ref #728
originally, "earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Cor 1:22; 2 Cor 5:5; in Eph 1:14,

 

[BNR32FAN]

LOL, look at the book you chose to apply your failed salvation message message.

Paul's epistle to the Galatians is a vigorous attack against to doctrine of works.

Sower parable they weren't good soil. They were informed about the grace of God (Jesu the Christ) & rejected it/Him. Went back you their law loving way's (you should understand that. Falling short of all the blessings that awaited the right decision)

Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
(MY NOTE: Grace has a Name, it's Jesus the Christ)

1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

These people were never saved!

You foolish Galatians, who has bewitched you, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified? This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3‬:‭1‬-‭3‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Apparently these “foolish Galatians” received the Holy Spirit. So I’ll ask again are they still saved?

Scripture proclaims believers are RIGHT NOW FORVER SEALED by God via His Holy Spirit.

Scripture disagrees with your interpretation, actual Greek to English translators (below) disagree with your interpretation. It's now a hard choice (for me) who has it right. You have it wrong!

The Holy Spirit is the new covenant Seal/promise from Christ. His blood has purified the believer & takes away every one of there sins Past-Present-Future!

So which is it? They were never saved or they are forever sealed with the Holy Spirit even tho they have been severed from Christ and fallen from grace?

 

[BrotherJJ]

So which is it? They were never saved or they are forever sealed with the Holy Spirit even tho they have been severed from Christ and fallen from grace?

Vine's, experts in Greek nouns & their grammatical genders: masculine, feminine, neuter & how their used in a number, singular, dual, or plural. And all respects of Greek verbs to mood, voice, aspect, tense, number, and person.

They define SEAL in verse Eph 1:13:
(a) "the seal of the living God," an emblem of "ownership & security" the persons to be "sealed" being "secured from destruction & marked for reward"

(b) As ownership & security, marking the definiteness and completeness of the act of faith.

(MY NOTE: Bought, paid for & secure. Saved DONE DEAL not until the next you willful or otherwise. BTW most sins are willful.

Vine's translators verifiable experts in Greek to English define EARNEST & cite 2 Cor 1:2, 5:5, Eph 1:14:

To denote "a pledge", used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, particularly of their eternal inheritance.

(MY NOTE: The Holy Spirit, Christ places in the believer (by FAITH) is God's down payment promise of their eternal inheritance. )

BNR32FAN, I choose the Greek to English translators interpretation of these works, over yours. Everyone else is free to choose as well.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: definition - Seal - English "seal" = Greek "sphragis" context as a Noun - Strongs ref #4973

(a) "the seal of the living God," an emblem of "ownership & security" the persons to be "sealed" being "secured from destruction & marked for reward"

English "seal" = Greek "sphragizo" context as a verb - Strongs ref #4972
(d) ownership and security, three indications are conveyed in Ephesians 1:13 , in the metaphor of the "sealing" of believers by the gift of the Holy Spirit, upon believing (i.e., at the time of their regeneration, not after a lapse of time in their spiritual life, "having also believed," "after that ye believed;" the aorist (TENSE) participle marks the definiteness and completeness of the act of faith); the idea of destination is stressed by the phrase "the Holy Spirit of promise" (see also Ephesians 1:14 ); so Ephesians 4:30 , "ye were sealed unto the day of redemption;"

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: EARNEST - (Noun) [ 1,,G728, arrabon ]
[ 1,,G728, arrabon ]
originally, earnest-money" deposited by the purchaser and forfeited if the purchase was not completed, was probably a Phoenician word, introduced into Greece. In general usage it came to denote "a pledge" or "earnest" of any sort; in the NT it is used only of that which is assured by God to believers; it is said of the Holy Spirit as the Divine "pledge" of all their future blessedness, 2 Corinthians 1:22; 2 Corinthians 5:5; in Ephesians 1:14, particularly of their eternal inheritance. In the Sept., Genesis 38:17-Genesis 38:18, Genesis 38:20. In modern Greek arrabona is an "engagement ring."